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Foma posted:It shouldn't be because it brings to light how public sector unions are an antithesis of good government. Oh is Jonny Nightstick an abusive rear end in a top hat who should be shown the door, too bad he has a union protecting him. Oh is this the 30th abusive complaint for the officer, which puts him in #1 in all complaints, it would be great to fire him, but the union has leveraged protections that prevent that. Johnny Nightstick has a slew of other lovely corrupt cops protecting him in addition to the arbiters, superior officers, politicians, and the whole criminal justice apparatus which knows at least intuitively that their function is to ensure that the police culture responsible for his brutality continues to work to their advantage come protest time. This is different from other public sector unions who have no real political support and who deal with workplace problems that aren't completely self-inflicted by a culture of sophomoric hazing. Besides which public sector employes who aren't cops are actually capable of producing something of value for which they can be unfairly compensated and which is actually useful to larger movements towards political emancipation and social justice.
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May 2, 2015 21:59
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Lotka Volterra posted:Actually teachers and firefighter unions are cool and good. Then again, they don't have the power to murder people and get away with it. I have no problem with unions providing legal protection for their members, my issue is that it seems like the police unions do more than just protect their members, they seem to control whether or not charges are brought on their members...
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May 2, 2015 22:00
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ElCondemn posted:I have no problem with unions providing legal protection for their members, my issue is that it seems like the police unions do more than just protect their members, they seem to control whether or not charges are brought on their members... It's been said before, but it seems to have a lot to do with the incestuous relationship between judges/the county clerk/the DA/and the police force. Almost every level of the justice system is set up to protect police, and having ridiculously strong unions on top of that makes most cops (however bad) nigh untouchable. It's a serious problem when these people wield as much power as they do. So despite my absolute faith in the institution of unions, there are times where I think "Cops have enough advantages already, strip them of unions". It's not really productive but that's pathos.
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May 2, 2015 22:03
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ElCondemn posted:I have no problem with unions providing legal protection for their members, my issue is that it seems like the police unions do more than just protect their members, they seem to control whether or not charges are brought on their members... The union doesn't. The union members (police) and allies (DAs) do. This would exist without unions as well. Non union police departments still have a blue wall.
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May 2, 2015 22:06
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Lotka Volterra posted:It's been said before, but it seems to have a lot to do with the incestuous relationship between judges/the county clerk/the DA/and the police force. Almost every level of the justice system is set up to protect police, and having ridiculously strong unions on top of that makes most cops (however bad) nigh untouchable. It's a serious problem when these people wield as much power as they do. The biggest problem is that the same apparatus that is supposed to be investigating, charging, and punishing police misconduct is the apparatus being investigated. The police effectively investigate themselves and won't let anybody else do it. This is how you get things like blatantly obvious police murders going completely unpunished or bullshit non-punishments like paid suspension. That latter part is an even more insane issue "dear police officer that did something wrong: have some free money and a vacation!" Given that policing in America is also very heavily local there also aren't really any major national attempts at oversight or even national guidelines. Until some organization other than the police comes about that isn't beholden to the police at all comes around we're going to keep seeing this poo poo happening. It gets even more problematic when you see incidents of the police destroying evidence gathered against them. There's been poo poo loads of stories of people recording the police doing something, the cell phones being seized, and then mysteriously vanishing. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 22:53 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 22:51
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We all know the problems, thing is the problems are the functioning of the entire justice system. It's a complete farce. Utterly overwhelming even for those who can manage to grasp even some of the big picture, which is no small feat.
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May 2, 2015 23:36
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I asked before but no one answered, do the FBI or justice department have some way to proactively root out bad police departments, or is it purely reactive?
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May 2, 2015 23:41
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Samurai Sanders posted:I asked before but no one answered, do the FBI or justice department have some way to proactively root out bad police departments, or is it purely reactive? I don't think there's any real way for the justice department to root out bad departments at all if the current state of affairs is any indication.
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May 2, 2015 23:49
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^^^^^^ There is, but it is a lack of funding and will. Samurai Sanders posted:I asked before but no one answered, do the FBI or justice department have some way to proactively root out bad police departments, or is it purely reactive? Define exactly what you mean, but the answer is likely yes. The problem is knowing who to investigate out of thousamds of departments unless you get complaints.
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May 2, 2015 23:49
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nm posted:^^^^^^ I'm sure it would be difficult and take forever, but do they have something better to do? Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 23:53 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 23:50
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Samurai Sanders posted:What I mean is, are they systematically examining all of them in some way? Maybe not going down to ask 17,000 departments and interviewing people, but running statistical analyses of their arrest patterns and stuff. No, but they legally could. Well, getting good stats to look at would be hard.
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May 2, 2015 23:52
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nm posted:^^^^^^ Hence saying "real way." If an agency exists but never does anything it may as well not exist at all.
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May 3, 2015 00:34
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Hence saying "real way." If an agency exists but never does anything it may as well not exist at all.
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May 3, 2015 00:35
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, which is why I am wondering, if stopping the police from ending people left and right isn't a priority for the justice department, what is? Controlling the underclasses, apparently.
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May 3, 2015 00:38
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Also providing cushy office jobs for whichever party currently controls the White House.
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May 3, 2015 01:05
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, which is why I am wondering, if stopping the police from ending people left and right isn't a priority for the justice department, what is? At the moment? I imagine mostly keeping private prisons full with whoever they can round up in poor and/or black neighborhoods.
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May 3, 2015 01:26
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, which is why I am wondering, if stopping the police from ending people left and right isn't a priority for the justice department, what is? Excuse me, but we have a war on drugs here. Do you want us to lose another war or are you a patrotic, good American?
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May 3, 2015 01:34
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If there's still anyone out there who doesn't know what white privilege looks like: https://twitter.com/deray/status/594685998719770624 After curfew, a Baltimore cop nicely gives his third and final warning to a group of white protesters in the white part of town to pretty please get off the streets because he doesn't want to put any of them in handcuffs.
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May 3, 2015 04:13
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Rhesus Pieces posted:If there's still anyone out there who doesn't know what white privilege looks like: I was present for this, and it was extremely weird, given how stupidly aggressive the police are being elsewhere (meaning an 8-minute drive from that protest site). I don't think any of us were expecting the cops to be that polite and it made us all really uncomfortable.
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May 3, 2015 04:57
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CombineThresher posted:I was present for this, and it was extremely weird, given how stupidly aggressive the police are being elsewhere (meaning an 8-minute drive from that protest site). I don't think any of us were expecting the cops to be that polite and it made us all really uncomfortable. Kill yourself white privileged scum. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 3, 2015 07:29
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CombineThresher posted:I was present for this, and it was extremely weird, given how stupidly aggressive the police are being elsewhere (meaning an 8-minute drive from that protest site). I don't think any of us were expecting the cops to be that polite and it made us all really uncomfortable. CIS white male spotted.
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May 3, 2015 09:29
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PerpetualSelf posted:Kill yourself white privileged scum. Shut up nerd. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 3, 2015 11:45
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hey there was at least one black guy in that crowd so it's not racist
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May 3, 2015 13:09
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The protest was planned (with input from black community leaders) specifically to test how a largely-white group of curfew protesters would be treated by police. Meanwhile, medics on the outskirts of protests downtown got beaten up for no reason because the BPD is terrible. The curfew was lifted this morning, so we'll see how that impacts things.
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May 3, 2015 16:31
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CombineThresher posted:I was present for this, and it was extremely weird, given how stupidly aggressive the police are being elsewhere (meaning an 8-minute drive from that protest site). I don't think any of us were expecting the cops to be that polite and it made us all really uncomfortable. Contrast your experience with this: https://twitter.com/deray/status/594895836598800384 Three on one takedown of a single black protester right as the curfew begins. No discussion, no begging, no "I don't want to arrest you", just straight to point-blank pepper spray like he's a rabid animal. He really took that initial blast of pepper spray like a goddamn champion though.
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May 3, 2015 17:36
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Rhesus Pieces posted:If there's still anyone out there who doesn't know what white privilege looks like: Rhesus Pieces posted:Contrast your experience with this: "See, why can't you (redacted) just protest peacefully like these fine upstanding whites?" Edit: CNN is saying he threw a glass bottle which means he deserves it. Keeping dumping CNN. Ralepozozaxe fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 17:42
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Contrast your experience with this: I have, and I've been following that guy's Twitter feed (among others relevant to what's happening in the city) for a while. The way protesters downtown have been treated is sickening.
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May 3, 2015 18:37
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Ralepozozaxe posted:"See, why can't you (redacted) just protest peacefully like these fine upstanding whites?" Of all the things to bitch about in Baltimore this one just confuses me. Dude is clearly resisting arrest (albeit completely passively), after the pepper spray fails to have much of an effect they take him down cleanly and professionally in one move with none of the usual bonus shots the police like to throw in. If he threw a glass bottle at the cops he absolutely does deserve it. edit: also holy poo poo that twitter feed, I didn't see a stretcher but it looked like the cops were carrying him because he was refusing to walk, not unable to walk. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 19:37 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 19:34
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Jarmak posted:Of all the things to bitch about in Baltimore this one just confuses me. Dude is clearly resisting arrest (albeit completely passively), after the pepper spray fails to have much of an effect they take him down cleanly and professionally in one move with none of the usual bonus shots the police like to throw in. If he threw a glass bottle at the cops he absolutely does deserve it. The bottle thing is untrue, and even then you don't respond by pepper spraying and beating the poo poo out of him and everyone around him.
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May 3, 2015 19:50
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Ralepozozaxe posted:The bottle thing is untrue, and even then you don't respond by pepper spraying and beating the poo poo out of him and everyone around him. They didn't beat him at all, they took him to the ground cleanly and put cuffs on him, that's exactly how they should respond
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May 3, 2015 19:54
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Jarmak posted:They didn't beat him at all, they took him to the ground cleanly and put cuffs on him, that's exactly how they should respond Then why didn't they do it to the white people who were doing the same thing? I hope the officer who didn't take them down immediately gets some form of reprimand for his irresponsible behavior. FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 20:11 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 19:59
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Jarmak posted:Of all the things to bitch about in Baltimore this one just confuses me. Dude is clearly resisting arrest (albeit completely passively), after the pepper spray fails to have much of an effect they take him down cleanly and professionally in one move with none of the usual bonus shots the police like to throw in. If he threw a glass bottle at the cops he absolutely does deserve it. The point is the night-and-day difference between the way the white protesters in the wealthier part of town get an adult conversation and zero violence on their third warning that they are breaking curfew whereas the black protester at Penn and North gets immediate violence in response to passive resistance. The cop talking to the white protesters said explicitly that he didn't want to arrest any of them. Compare that to the look of glee on the face of the cop dragging the black protester's face across the pavement after the takedown. 
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May 3, 2015 20:05
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Rhesus Pieces posted:The point is the night-and-day difference between the way the white protesters in the wealthier part of town get an adult conversation and zero violence on their third warning that they are breaking curfew whereas the black protester at Penn and North gets immediate violence in response to passive resistance. The look on the smiling guy's face is disgusting, and who is that guy in non cop clothes holding his legs?
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May 3, 2015 20:13
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Then why didn't they do it to the white people who were doing the same thing? Maybe because its a small peaceful gathering in what looks like a suburb versus ground zero for the rioting and violence? Maybe its because a bunch of hipster looking kids standing around illicit a much more cooperative response then a guy with a "gently caress the police" shirt doing the come at me bro thing at the police. You'll also notice in the first video all the people have quieted down and gather around to listen calmly to what looks like only one or two cops. Whereas the second looks like a police riot control line and a bunch of people rush in when they make the arrest. We also have no idea why they chose to arrest him, the video starts seconds before the pepper spray, we're meant to assume its just because he's black but why him and not any of the other dozen or so black people you can clearly see in the video.
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May 3, 2015 20:14
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Ralepozozaxe posted:who is that guy in non cop clothes holding his legs? I'm assuming a plainclothes officer, though I don't see one of those neck-lanyard ID things.
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May 3, 2015 20:20
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Then why didn't they do it to the white people who were doing the same thing? I imagine because, if this is true: CombineThresher posted:The protest was planned (with input from black community leaders) specifically to test how a largely-white group of curfew protesters would be treated by police. The Baltimore Sun posted:At 10 p.m. the officers returned and the protesters were given a warning.
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May 3, 2015 20:32
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My Q-Face posted:There's a sentiment I hear somewhere, whenever anybody says this, let me see if I can remember what it was... Oh Yeah, they don't have those people It seems like you don't know what you are talking about.
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May 3, 2015 20:37
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tsa posted:It seems like you don't know what you are talking about. No you don't know what you're talking about.
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May 3, 2015 20:49
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Jarmak posted:Maybe because its a small peaceful gathering in what looks like a suburb versus ground zero for the rioting and violence? Maybe its because a bunch of hipster looking kids standing around illicit a much more cooperative response then a guy with a "gently caress the police" shirt doing the come at me bro thing at the police. You'll also notice in the first video all the people have quieted down and gather around to listen calmly to what looks like only one or two cops. Whereas the second looks like a police riot control line and a bunch of people rush in when they make the arrest. Exactly, it's hard to respond to white liberals trying to 'make a difference' with anything more than unbridled laughter, if it were anarchists throwing rocks you'd have a different story. There's a lot of intellectual dishonesty when people try to make these black v white comparisons when the underlying scenario is clearly different.
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May 3, 2015 20:51
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tsa posted:Exactly, it's hard to respond to white liberals trying to 'make a difference' with anything more than unbridled laughter, if it were anarchists throwing rocks you'd have a different story. There's a lot of intellectual dishonesty when people try to make these black v white comparisons when the underlying scenario is clearly different. What would you say is the functional difference between peaceful black protesters and peaceful white protesters?
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May 3, 2015 20:53
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