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TGLT posted:Best clip I can find of the Milgram Experiment on Youtube. Who exactly says that the Milgram or Zimbardo experiments weren't unethical? They're pretty commonly used as examples of poo poo Not To Do Because It's Unethical And Bad
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May 5, 2015 02:41
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Jarmak posted:edit: Also, like Zimbardo, Milgrim was an rear end who didn't set out to do an experiment, he set out to prove his pet theory. Shocking news! Scientist has a theory and then sets out to prove it! 
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May 5, 2015 02:42
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sugar free jazz posted:Who exactly says that the Milgram or Zimbardo experiments weren't unethical? They're pretty commonly used as examples of poo poo Not To Do Because It's Unethical And Bad I specifically said that to just avoid discussion on ethics because it's kind of an ancillary topic to whether or not it's findings are valid, and whether those findings have any relation to the behavior of police or civilians in their perceptions/dealings with the police. The Stanford Experiment is second only to poo poo like the Tuskegee Experiment, but some of the participants later thanked Milgram for involving them in that experiment. So I figured, gently caress it, just sidestep that issue and focus on what's actually relevant.
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May 5, 2015 02:49
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New York state police handcuff and shackle ‘combative’ five-year-old http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/new-york-state-police-handcuff-and-shackle-combative-five-year-old/#.VUdyNYYbgWM.reddit In the system at age 5, kids got a tough life ahead of him.
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May 5, 2015 02:59
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FRINGE posted:Have you ever studied anything? You dont seem to understand anything about ... anything. You don't set out to prove a theory, it introduces bias. You set out to test a theory.
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May 5, 2015 03:02
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Stereotype posted:You don't set out to prove a theory, it introduces bias. You set out to test a theory. This is what I was about to say. A proper scientist who forms a hypothesis creates an unbiased test to determine whether or not it's true and goes along with the results. I haven't studied Milgram in as much detail, but Zimbardo specifically had a pet theory about human nature that he was anxious to prove and specifically arranged his tests to prove it. This is what resulted in him and the San Quentin inmate assistant feeding instructions to the students to encourage behavior that would prove his theory, picking a group of subjects likely to have an inherit bias and understanding just what the study was about, and leaving out the students who didn't become abusive like his study wanted to claim. Rather than testing a theory, he created an extremely unscientific test dedicated to proving himself right.
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May 5, 2015 03:07
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TGLT posted:I specifically said that to just avoid discussion on ethics because it's kind of an ancillary topic to whether or not it's findings are valid, and whether those findings have any relation to the behavior of police or civilians in their perceptions/dealings with the police. The Stanford Experiment is second only to poo poo like the Tuskegee Experiment, but some of the participants later thanked Milgram for involving them in that experiment. So I figured, gently caress it, just sidestep that issue and focus on what's actually relevant. Oh word, probably a good point, my b
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May 5, 2015 03:08
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TGLT posted:Rather than argue about one specific study, there are others to refer to that were more contemporaneous and less concerned with an ethical approach than Burger. Blass's "The Milgram Paradigm After 35 Years" has a nice list on page 12/966 of experiments which replicated the Milgram Paradigm, although specifically experiments to determine if there was a difference between male/female levels of obedience. Some, like Sheridan and King, actually used a (much smaller) real shock on an animal. No, these other studies were also done unethically, as far as I know. They were also plagued with the same selection problems and lack of blindnedness as Milgram. Tests where it was clear that there was harm occurring--where they weren't reassured by an 'authority' that it wasn't, had very low obedience rates. Representing the Milgram test as 'obeying' authority is missing the mark, it's about believing authority if it's about anything. Drawing any significant conclusions from it is silly. We have a lot more ethical research that doesn't involve contrived scenarios about electrical shocks to look at obedience to authority.
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May 5, 2015 03:12
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When are they gonna hang those Baltimore cops? I want to be in the front row for that poo poo.
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May 5, 2015 03:48
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SpeedGem posted:New York state police handcuff and shackle ‘combative’ five-year-old Why is a school calling the police on a 5 year old?
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May 5, 2015 04:06
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Branis posted:Why is a school calling the police on a 5 year old? Happens more often than you'd think. http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/17/justice/georgia-student-handcuffed/ quote:According to their report, when the officer arrived, he observed kindergartner Salecia Johnson on the floor of the principal's office screaming and crying. edit: This one's from today quote:Florida police arrived to a school in Manatee County after they were called to investigate two 7-year-olds who kissed “on the lips." Fortunately, no arrests in this case... yet. Florida Betty fucked around with this message at 04:19 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 04:16
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Branis posted:Why is a school calling the police on a 5 year old? Press charges and they aren't the school's problem any more. Good way to get rid of kids the school doesn't want to deal with. Tends to happen a lot to kids with severe disabilities.
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May 5, 2015 04:33
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Jarmak posted:The Milgram experiment didn't demonstrate obedience to authority, it demonstrated people's willingness to trust a so-called expert over their own intuitive judgement. They were only able to coax people into giving the shocks by having someone posing as an expert give them repeated assurances that the person on the other end was really okay and no harm was coming to them, this isn't the same as "just following orders". And the subjects' faith in experts and medical ethics was actually correct: the person on the other end really was okay and no harm was coming to them.
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May 5, 2015 04:46
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FRINGE posted:Have you ever studied anything? You dont seem to understand anything about ... anything. uh no, poo poo scientists set out to prove they're right, good ones set out to test if they're right.
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May 5, 2015 05:08
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VitalSigns posted:And the subjects' faith in experts and medical ethics was actually correct: the person on the other end really was okay and no harm was coming to them. This is also a good point that I hadn't thought of
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May 5, 2015 05:11
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Jarmak posted:uh no, poo poo scientists set out to prove they're right, good ones set out to test if they're right. lol and journal reviews are anonymous and acceptance/R&R is based on merit only
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May 5, 2015 06:05
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sugar free jazz posted:lol and journal reviews are anonymous and acceptance/R&R is based on merit only Glad you've identified the incentive to be a poo poo scientist.
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May 5, 2015 06:16
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Obdicut posted:
Such as the Baltimore riots?
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May 5, 2015 06:23
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Jarmak posted:Glad you've identified the incentive to be a poo poo scientist. ...Publishing and personal relationships? What?
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May 5, 2015 06:24
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Freddie Grey arrest warrents drawn up to arrest Princess Peach the lunch lady and a Mario brother (warning, autoplaying video). quote:When charges were announced Friday against Alicia White for the death of Freddie Gray, her phone started buzzing from journalists and bail bondsmen. Gee, wonder how THAT happened. Is Donkey Kong is in charge of the Police?
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May 5, 2015 13:01
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Comstar posted:Freddie Grey arrest warrents drawn up to arrest Princess Peach the lunch lady and a Mario brother (warning, autoplaying video). Princess Peach was not the woman kidnapped by Donkey Kong. You're thinking of Bowser.
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May 5, 2015 15:54
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Princess Peach was not the woman kidnapped by Donkey Kong. You're thinking of Bowser. 
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May 5, 2015 15:57
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Princess Peach was not the woman kidnapped by Donkey Kong. You're thinking of Bowser. Bowser was kidnapped by Gannon, not Donkey Kong.
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May 5, 2015 16:06
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I do not think anyone is right here
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May 5, 2015 16:12
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GlyphGryph posted:Bowser was kidnapped by Gannon, not Donkey Kong. You're thinking of Link, when she was fighting for the triforce.
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May 5, 2015 16:14
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Comstar posted:Freddie Grey arrest warrents drawn up to arrest Princess Peach the lunch lady and a Mario brother (warning, autoplaying video). I guess their princess was in another castle
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May 5, 2015 17:10
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God drat people are loving stupid. Now people are latching on to the "well this police officer was shot in the head are people gonna riot about that?" and I want to slap the stupid out of them, but I know it won't help. What the gently caress is wrong with these morons? How broken are people's brains to come to this conclusion? What is the emotional or intellectual cause of this? I just can't comprehend it. I am just so goddamn frustrated right now.
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May 5, 2015 17:29
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GlyphGryph posted:What the gently caress is wrong with these morons? How broken are people's brains to come to this conclusion? What is the emotional or intellectual cause of this? Seriously, they already have their notions in their heads, and then they want to form the narrative around it to justify it.
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May 5, 2015 17:32
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GlyphGryph posted:God drat people are loving stupid. Now people are latching on to the "well this police officer was shot in the head are people gonna riot about that?" and I want to slap the stupid out of them, but I know it won't help. What the gently caress is wrong with these morons? How broken are people's brains to come to this conclusion? What is the emotional or intellectual cause of this? I just can't comprehend it. "Institutional racism doesn't exist" really sums up their view on the matter if you want to be glib.
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May 5, 2015 17:32
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Hmm yes. I'm sure the NYPD encourages riots when one of their own is slain.
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May 5, 2015 17:33
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GlyphGryph posted:God drat people are loving stupid. Now people are latching on to the "well this police officer was shot in the head are people gonna riot about that?" and I want to slap the stupid out of them, but I know it won't help. What the gently caress is wrong with these morons? How broken are people's brains to come to this conclusion? What is the emotional or intellectual cause of this? I just can't comprehend it. It's Cops vs. Robbers tribalism. I am a good person > the police represent good people > the criminals are bad guys > the police are on my team > I root for the police no matter what.
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May 5, 2015 17:34
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No, it's not that. I get that, I understand that. Racism, not believing institutional racism exists, tribalism, and so on. That doesn't explain this though. It is the gross, stunning, absolutely insane smugness over their own stupidity I don't get. Do they realize how stupid they are being it? Is it intentional? It has to be. Some of these people are smart people. Is it some sort of group gloating over the fact that they have the the power to reframe the narrative and deny reality?
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May 5, 2015 17:42
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If you don't believe there's any kind of problem with our institutions, or even conceivably a problem with them, then people must have protested because they were mad someone died. Since they're not protesting when a white cop dies, obviously they only care about black lives, therefore they are the real racists. And that's how you end up thinking this is some kind of smug game-winning comeback. I mean, just look at that guy earlier in this thread who was claiming the Ferguson protests had to be fake outrage because if law enforcement really did discriminate against black people surely we would have heard of it before this. Some people just refuse to believe the evidence and see the world as "black guy died -> riots, white guy died -> no riots, whites are the real victims"
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May 5, 2015 17:53
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GlyphGryph posted:No, it's not that. I get that, I understand that. Racism, not believing institutional racism exists, tribalism, and so on. That doesn't explain this though. It is the gross, stunning, absolutely insane smugness over their own stupidity I don't get. Just add "checkmate, libtards  " to the end of every statement they make and you'll start to understand their mindset. For most people politics has nothing to do with rationality or policy or looking out for their own best interests. It's a competitive sport and they're obsessed with beating the other team, especially on social media, by somehow getting the last word and sticking it to their opponents no matter how nonsensical their point is.
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May 5, 2015 18:01
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SpeedGem posted:New York state police handcuff and shackle ‘combative’ five-year-old Honestly I'm kind of meh on this one. Ive had to deal with combative little kids having an incident before. Been told parents were contacted they never were. Trying to get the kid who is feaking out and freaking others out in to an ambulance. Is a quite a bit rougher than you would imagine. Anyone who says a well aimed kick from a five year old wouldn't hurt is either full of crap or hasn't seen a six foot physically fit emt get droped by a kick to the temple. If the kid is going bat poo poo and even being slightly aggressive im pretty much willing to let the leg restraints slide. Little kids give no fucks about who they hurt when they are scared. lovely situation on both ends. Feel bad for the kid though that poo poo must have been scary. Melthir fucked around with this message at 18:38 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 18:27
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Seriously about the tribalism, where there are no actual issues, just opposing teams, and a point against someone perceived to be on one team is a point for the other team, no matter how little sense that makes. You say police brutality exists? Well what about all those back taxes Al Sharpton owes, huh?
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May 5, 2015 18:58
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GlyphGryph posted:No, it's not that. I get that, I understand that. Racism, not believing institutional racism exists, tribalism, and so on. That doesn't explain this though. It is the gross, stunning, absolutely insane smugness over their own stupidity I don't get. They probably feel the same way about you, if they think about you at all.
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May 5, 2015 18:59
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Melthir posted:Honestly I'm kind of meh on this one. Ive had to deal with combative little kids having an incident before. Been told parents were contacted they never were. Trying to get the kid who is feaking out and freaking others out in to an ambulance. Is a quite a bit rougher than you would imagine. Hi! I work with teenagers in a residential facility. If you are so scared of a Literal Five Year Old Child that you need to have the police handle it... a) You are a gigantic loving baby. b) You are totally unqualified for your job. There is no goddamn circumstance in which the police should need to be called to arrest a Literal Five Year Old Child. Jesus Christ.
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May 5, 2015 19:07
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GlyphGryph posted:No, it's not that. I get that, I understand that. Racism, not believing institutional racism exists, tribalism, and so on. That doesn't explain this though. It is the gross, stunning, absolutely insane smugness over their own stupidity I don't get. Its a complete lack of critical thinking other then to determine where a new fact fits in their predetermined narrative. For more examples see half this thread
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May 5, 2015 19:13
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The Mattybee posted:There is no goddamn circumstance in which the police should need to be called to arrest a Literal Five Year Old Child. Jesus Christ. It's pretty clear how they should have handled the situation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E4j9KYiuZQ
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May 5, 2015 19:16
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