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Lycus posted:I think the Tyrells might give Stannis a call and say, "Hey, you wanna divorce your wife and marry Margaery? One almost expects his wife to volunteer to be burned so he won't have to check the 'divorced' box on the forms
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May 5, 2015 18:09
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Elephanthead posted:No doubt Tomlin should just abdicate to him, have him kill all the septigon heads and spend his life in bed with hot rich wife as lord of empty gold mine living on not murdered king pension like the retired pope. There was a scene where they were pulling a rowboat up beach 
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May 5, 2015 18:44
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Pikehead posted:There was a scene where they were pulling a rowboat up beach They told a story about being shipwrecked while dressed, armed, and reasonably well-kempt
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May 5, 2015 18:57
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Bobo the Red posted:They told a story about being shipwrecked while dressed, armed, and reasonably well-kempt You try coming up a with a convincing cover story on the fly when the fuzz surprise you and start being all nosy. (Did he say his name was Koopa? Kupa?)
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May 5, 2015 19:13
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tooterfish posted:Someone said it in this thread before, but the Iron Islanders are legends only in their own heads. They talk themselves up constantly, but get the absolute poo poo kicked out of them at the first hint of any real resistance. It's wonderfully cathartic. They're the McPoyle family of Westeros. The Greyjoys being idiot clowns is wonderful. Say what you will about the Boltons, but they aren't bullshitting you...they're actually that cutthroat and malicious. "We do not sow." Sure, good for you guys.
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May 5, 2015 19:25
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:You try coming up a with a convincing cover story on the fly when the fuzz surprise you and start being all nosy. Cooper. Come on now.
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May 5, 2015 19:27
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Obligatory Handle posted:Speaking of that, where are all of those White Walkers? Wasn't there a scene seasons ago that showed a huge army marching south? Does it really take this tireless army of the dead that long to show up at the wall? Jon Snow has been north and back a few times since then, right? Last time we saw them, they weren't marching anywhere at all. They were all gathered together having a baby ceremony in the beginning of Season 4.
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May 5, 2015 19:36
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joshtothemaxx posted:Cooper. Come on now. CMON TARS
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May 5, 2015 19:45
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Bobo the Red posted:One truly massive good deed. And why would it be unlikely? Ned was a better person than Stannis, and would value Davos's acts the same way "The Starks have the blood of the first men in them". Ned is big on duty, and also on heredity and position.
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May 5, 2015 19:52
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My Q-Face posted:"The Starks have the blood of the first men in them". Ned is big on duty, and also on heredity and position. Yeah, that's the most important thing to Ned, he would never incite a rebellion against the rightful king, overthrow the royal family and place his buddy on the throne.
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May 5, 2015 20:06
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counterfeitsaint posted:Yeah, that's the most important thing to Ned, he would never incite a rebellion against the rightful king, overthrow the royal family and place his buddy on the throne. Whats the honorable thing to do when the son of the king kidnaps and rapes your sister who was betrothed to your buddy?
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May 5, 2015 20:35
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counterfeitsaint posted:Yeah, that's the most important thing to Ned, he would never incite a rebellion against the rightful king, overthrow the royal family and place his buddy on the throne. That rightful King burned his father and older brother alive in front of the entire court. The rebellion came after that.
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May 5, 2015 20:36
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Manic Mailman posted:Whats the honorable thing to do when the son of the king kidnaps and rapes your sister who was betrothed to your buddy?
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May 5, 2015 20:43
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Manic Mailman posted:Whats the honorable thing to do when the son of the king kidnaps and rapes your sister who was betrothed to your buddy? Not jump to conclusions by assuming that the only way a person who can justifiably be called the most perfect man can be with your sister is by kidnapping and raping her?
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May 5, 2015 21:15
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MizPiz posted:Not jump to conclusions by assuming that the only way a person who can justifiably be called the most perfect man can be with your sister is by kidnapping and raping her? Robert wasn't an usurper, he was a hero. He backed his boy Ned, kicked the guy who started the whole mess right in the rubies, and deposed a king so mad he tried to burn half a million people to death in a fit of spite. Unfortunately kinging was slightly above Robert's pay-grade, but I reckon he'd have got away with it if he didn't also have the worst in-laws ever. There's no way he could've drunk the realm into the state this ruinous war has left it in. tooterfish fucked around with this message at 21:36 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 21:34
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Kanthulhu posted:That rightful King burned his father and older brother alive in front of the entire court. Hey, apparently burning people on a whim doesn't make you a bad person and is totally cool, so tooterfish posted:Perfect man? Considering he was already married with children and she was already betrothed to someone else, even eloping was still highly inappropriate (to put it generously). The Starks had legitimate grievances, they were burned alive for daring to bring them to court. Yeah, Rhaegar acted like a huge entitled rear end in a top hat, and got thousands killed, let's not go building shrines. Robert can be both an usurper and a hero, but he was really just the former. He wanted the war, because he wanted Lyanna (and it's becoming more and more clear she probably did not want him back). He could've been a hero, if he had the decency to let a good king take the throne, but no, had to be his inept rear end on that seat. Amusingly, the war had only one actual hero, one Jaime Lannister, who sacrificed his honor to save King's Landing.
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May 5, 2015 21:59
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I got a little confused and maybe I misheard it last night when I re-watched but who was the person who sings? The 2nd part makes it sorta clear that it was Rhaegar but at first he mentioned Viserys singing?
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May 5, 2015 22:04
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Vintersorg posted:I got a little confused and maybe I misheard it last night when I re-watched but who was the person who sings? The 2nd part makes it sorta clear that it was Rhaegar but at first he mentioned Viserys singing? He's definitely talking about Rhaegar. Barristan mentions Viserys, but saying something akin to "Viserys didn't tell you how much he (Rhaegar) loved to sing?"
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May 5, 2015 22:07
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Lloyd Boner posted:He's definitely talking about Rhaegar. Barristan mentions Viserys, but saying something akin to "Viserys didn't tell you how much he (Rhaegar) loved to sing?" That was my hang up - the he. All cool, thanks!
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May 5, 2015 22:09
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Sparrows: The Medieval Tea Party getting their way.
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May 5, 2015 22:35
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tooterfish posted:Balon exists to be hilarious. The Iron Islanders are the slavs of Westeros.
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May 5, 2015 22:48
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Bobo the Red posted:Yeah, Rhaegar acted like a huge entitled rear end in a top hat, and got thousands killed, let's not go building shrines. Also Robert and Rhaegar had a one-on-one fight and Robert beat Rhaegar, therefore in the eyes of the Gods (old and new) Robert was in the right and Rhaegar was in the wrong  It's 100% infallible, I'm trying to think of a case where a trial by combat produced the wrong result and it's splitting my head.
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May 5, 2015 23:23
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Bobo the Red posted:Amusingly, the war had only one actual hero, one Jaime Lannister, who sacrificed his honor to save King's Landing. It's not possible, but I wonder how much worse things would have been if Jamie had ended up on the throne then. Tywin? Ned?
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May 6, 2015 00:33
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How did Robert actually become King instead of Ned or any other important rebelling leader person? For that part who actually took part in the rebellion and would have been candidates?
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May 6, 2015 00:43
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Koboje posted:How did Robert actually become King instead of Ned or any other important rebelling leader person? For that part who actually took part in the rebellion and would have been candidates? Wasn't he in charge of the rebellion? Also a few pages back someone said that on the letter Ned wrote he didn't put "Joffrey" and instead "the king" down, implying Stannis. I always thought that the point of contention when Circei ripped the letter up was that Ned would be in control until Joffrey came of age; was it actually that Ned was going to bat for Stannis and that went completely over my head?
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May 6, 2015 00:50
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Koboje posted:How did Robert actually become King instead of Ned or any other important rebelling leader person? For that part who actually took part in the rebellion and would have been candidates? Ned actually arrived in the Capital ahead of Robert, from memory, and Jaime said that if Ned had declared himself King then that nobody would have disputed it. It was called Robert's Rebellion but I don't know if it was named that way after the fact or not - Robert won so all the stories are about brave Robert Baratheon who went to war for his lady love, but had Ned taken the Iron Throne I'm sure it would have just as easily been called The Stark Rebellion and been all about how Ned went to war for the honor of his family. Tywin sacked King's Landing but up to that point he'd fought on the Mad King's side, so if he (or Jaime) had taken the throne, the rebellion simply would have continued on until they were dead, and Tywin was too smart for that. Jon Arryn was technically speaking the Senior Man, and a father-figure to both Robert and Ned, but he wasn't the popular figure that kicked everything off, he just backed the play of braver, younger men, and was best suited to the role of the Hand of the King (and of course he basically was too indulgent and let Robert do whatever he wanted). Other than that, I'm fairly certain all the other various Lords involved - even the legendary ones sung of in song - were followers as opposed to leaders. Robert and Ned were the guys running poo poo, and Ned would have probably made a better King, but he simply didn't have that motivation or desire. He just wanted vengeance for his father and brother, and to rescue his sister/help his best friend.
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May 6, 2015 00:50
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I think Jaime was full of poo poo, and Ned declaring himself king would've led to much confusion among the other rebel lords and Robert would've felt betrayed.
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May 6, 2015 00:53
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Koboje posted:How did Robert actually become King instead of Ned or any other important rebelling leader person? Because Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen, putting him in the line of succession. Once Tywin killed all the Targaryen children Robert was the person highest in the line of succession other than Viserys, who had been taken to another continent and was a small child. By the succession law they use women can't really inherit at all unless absolutely every man with any kind of claim is dead so Daenarys isn't really in the line of succession at all.
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May 6, 2015 00:57
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Also the Baratheons are descended from Aegon's bastard brother.
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May 6, 2015 00:59
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cock hero flux posted:By the succession law they use women can't really inherit at all unless absolutely every man with any kind of claim is dead so Daenarys isn't really in the line of succession at all. So if Stannis was to die, by the old traditions Dany would be considered viable? I can't think of any other people with Targ blood that have been on the show that aren't in some way already excluded - Maester Aemon is in the Night's Watch, Gendry is a bastard, it's been put out there and is widely believed that Tommen and Myrcella are actually Lannisters and not Baratheons etc.
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May 6, 2015 01:01
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cock hero flux posted:Because Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen, putting him in the line of succession. Once Tywin killed all the Targaryen children Robert was the person highest in the line of succession other than Viserys, who had been taken to another continent and was a small child. Robert is of a different dynasty. Line of sucession broke and started anew when a different dynasty assumed the throne. It has nothing to do with him having some fraction of Targaryan blood. He took the throne by Right of Conquest.
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May 6, 2015 01:04
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Koboje posted:How did Robert actually become King instead of Ned or any other important rebelling leader person? For that part who actually took part in the rebellion and would have been candidates? Robert led the rebellion. He was related to the Targaryens on his maternal side, so he had the best blood claim (of the rebels, obviously). He also killed the crown prince in personal combat and was a charismatic and popular guy to boot. Everyone thought he'd be the better figurehead. popewiles posted:It has nothing to do with him having some fraction of Targaryan blood. He took the throne by Right of Conquest. It greases the wheels. tooterfish fucked around with this message at 01:16 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 01:12
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Jerusalem posted:So if Stannis was to die, by the old traditions Dany would be considered viable? I think technically speaking Shireen is currently the heir to the throne and Danaerys is second in line. But there is no precedence for women inheriting the throne at all. popewiles posted:He took the throne by Right of Conquest. Oh, sure, that's why Viserys didn't become King. But that blood is why, out of all the rebel lords and powerful people involved, Robert became the King. Jon Arryn probably would have been the best man for the job, Ned Stark probably had the most men, and Tywin Lannister had the most money. But Robert became King because he legally had a claim to it and having some kind of pretense of legitimacy, even a weak one, makes things much, much easier. cock hero flux fucked around with this message at 01:25 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 01:22
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My understanding is that by killing all the remaining Targs, Robert would actually have inherited the throne anyway. King Aerys's father didn't have any other kids, and his grandfather's only other child with descendants was Robert's grandmother. (I dunno if the crown could pass through a woman like that though, or if they would keep going back to try and find a solely male line.)
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May 6, 2015 01:27
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Linguica posted:(I dunno if the crown could pass through a woman like that though, or if they would keep going back to try and find a solely male line.) They would go back and find an entirely male line but there aren't any, so it would then pass through female lines to find the first living man, and then he would inherit. In this case, Robert. Of course Viserys was the real rightful king but he didn't have an army and having an army tends to bump you up the line of succession a bit.
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May 6, 2015 01:30
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I'm pretty sure they only ignore girls if the dead king has a direct brother. Like, Myrcella is in the line of succession, which is why marrying her off to Dorne was a big-ticket item: if Joffrey and Tommen die, she's queen (because her uncle is a traitor). Daenerys has a legit claim (although she had her brother killed, so maybe not). I believe the Targaryens had different rules (no girls allowed) than all the other houses though, so it's hard to say. Dorne is the chillest and clearest: first out (of a womb), first inRBA Starblade posted:Wasn't he in charge of the rebellion? Ned put 'rightful heir'. When Ned came up with the letter, the point of contention was that Cersei knew Ned would out her secret if he was allowed to be in charge, so she stopped it from happening. She wouldn't actually know that Ned changed the wording on the letter, and it hardly mattered anyway, because Ned being the active ruler would mean a rocky end for her children and herself. Koboje posted:How did Robert actually become King instead of Ned or any other important rebelling leader person? For that part who actually took part in the rebellion and would have been candidates? Ned likely had no interest in the throne. He didn't even want to be Hand. Imagine if Jon Arryn had taken the crown: King Robin would be outfitting all of Westeros with Moondoors. Speaking of, I wonder if Robin might be Littlefinger's. How nasty did he have to get with Lysa to get her help? I wonder if anyone will ever be aware of just how Littlefinger played the Starks and Lannisters into a brutal war. Linguica posted:My understanding is that by killing all the remaining Targs, Robert would actually have inherited the throne anyway. King Aerys's father didn't have any other kids, and his grandfather's only other child with descendants was Robert's grandmother. (I dunno if the crown could pass through a woman like that though, or if they would keep going back to try and find a solely male line.) You don't generally get to stay in the line of succession if you start murdering the people ahead of you (openly). Robert lost any claim to succession based on his Targaryen blood the minute he rebelled. He started a new dynasty. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 01:57 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 01:30
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Well Lysa did practically blurt out the entire scheme in front of Sansa (IIRC), although she doesn't seem to have put two and two together yet. Wonder what will happen when the penny finally drops...
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May 6, 2015 01:35
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cock hero flux posted:I think technically speaking Shireen is currently the heir to the throne and Danaerys is second in line. But there is no precedence for women inheriting the throne at all. This is far from canon but when I played as Stannis in the GoT mod of CKII Shireen was my heir, and also turned out to be a really bad queen overall once Stannis died. At least I won the Battle of Blackwater though 
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May 6, 2015 01:40
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EccoRaven posted:At least I won the Battle of Blackwater though How many died? Hundreds?
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May 6, 2015 01:46
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Watching the series again with my SO who's never seen it and Ned's head just got chopped off. This time around I'm struck with the sense that for all his moaning about being an honorable soldier, defying King Robert's will ( "rightful heir" instead of "my son Joffrey") didn't seem like a very honorable thing to do. In the end he was just another schmuck who thought he knew what was best for the realm ie: another player in the game who didn't embrace the fact that he was playing a game at all.
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May 6, 2015 01:56
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