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Mind-control device seems out of the question for planting a mole into SHIELD since they can just scan for traces of it.
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May 6, 2015 20:29
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I think from Gonzales' side, it was a reasonable request. As SHIELD is (semi-legally, maybe?) the protector of people in this brave new world, they see having a list of powered people as somewhat reasonable. SHIELD doesn't recognize the Inhumans as a separate race within humanity, rather a group of humans-plus. The Inhumans, however, see themselves a a totally separate race, with their own history and culture. One that has never been treated well by humans in the past, and that must live in the shadows to avoid more aggression. I think some type of accord could have been reached, but maybe not by those two people. Certainly, Jiyang's past with Hydra (or was it SHIELD at the time?) and Raina running around talking about the sky falling didn't help. Gonzales' comical level of xenophobia also probably didn't - not that we saw it in that scene. Maybe Skye/Daisy could have helped by explaining the process by which Inhumans are created, and the evaluations that go on before. Maybe highlighting that incidents like Bahrain are an outcome of the evaluations being skipped and SHIELD not knowing how best to handle it could have helped. Nobody wants another Bahrain, I'm pretty sure. Maybe that would have made it harder. We'll never know, though, because the Mom'Dib has declared war on SHIELD.
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May 6, 2015 20:32
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hope and vaseline posted:Mind-control device seems out of the question for planting a mole into SHIELD since they can just scan for traces of it. They wouldn't know that Bobbi's been brain-scrambled though, especially considering that she's one of SHIELD's best spies and could lie her way out of pretty much anything. I would say that taking one of the jets out for a spin would be kind of hard to explain, but then again they managed to just take it without problems in the first place despite there being a major OP happening at the same time.
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May 6, 2015 20:35
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VDay posted:They wouldn't know that Bobbi's been brain-scrambled though, especially considering that she's one of SHIELD's best spies and could lie her way out of pretty much anything. I would say that taking one of the jets out for a spin would be kind of hard to explain, but then again they managed to just take it without problems in the first place despite there being a major OP happening at the same time. Speaking of that, and someone mentioned it previously, but I was really confused on the jet issue. We're clearly shown Gonzalez receiving the gift to give to Jiaying in the back of the jet, and the camera pans to the cockpit where Bobbi and May are. But apparently they were on their own jet for the fight to go down? Was there a transfer to another jet that was left out in editing at some point?
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May 6, 2015 20:38
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Agent 33 disguised herself as May to get Bobbi on a jet to take her to Ward. Real May was on the jet flying Gonzalez & Co to meet with the Inhumans. Showing May tell Gonzales that they're almost there was the big reveal/twist that the May with Bobbi isn't actually May. It's why the very next scene was Agent 33 and Bobbi fighting. e: Read your post more closely and slightly misunderstood what you're talking about. Your confusion comes from the shot of May telling Gonzales that they're almost there. That shot didn't show May and Bobbi in that jet, it was just May. VDay fucked around with this message at 20:45 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 20:42
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hope and vaseline posted:Speaking of that, and someone mentioned it previously, but I was really confused on the jet issue. We're clearly shown Gonzalez receiving the gift to give to Jiaying in the back of the jet, and the camera pans to the cockpit where Bobbi and May are. But apparently they were on their own jet for the fight to go down? Was there a transfer to another jet that was left out in editing at some point? Yeah, I brought that up last night... VDay posted:Agent 33 disguised herself as May to get Bobbi on a jet to take her to Ward. Except it wasn't shown like that: Kheldarn posted:When Bobbi is talking to May, and tells her that Mack quit, it's just them in the plane. Later, when Gonzales asks Weaver for the "insurance policy", the camera focuses on the cockpit, and you see May and Bobbi, with an out of focus Gonzales in the background. Then, when we find out May is Agent 33, it's just them, and it's just May on the plane with Gonzales and co. They had Bobbi on both jets.
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May 6, 2015 20:45
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Kheldarn posted:Except it wasn't shown like that: Except it was and they didn't and you're just misremembering the scene.  That's the shot we see when May tells Gonzales they're close, followed by a close-up of May's face. The shot is deliberately set up so that your brain goes "Oh ok that's May and Bobbi. Wait...how is May there I thought they were on the other plane?" and then the 'Oh poo poo!' moment happens. It's specifically set up to throw you off for just a second before Agent 33's reveal happens. It maybe wasn't the best execution seeing how many people were simply left a bit confused, but it was clearly their intent. VDay fucked around with this message at 20:53 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 20:50
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I could have sworn Coulson/Gonzales ordered May and Bobbi to scout ahead.
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May 6, 2015 20:56
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I'd like to know why Bobbi decided to immediately leave the plane instead of checking in with HQ first. Hell, why leave at all when she knew that she wasn't anywhere near anything? For being a supposedly competent spy, she seems to get idiot-ball'd a lot.
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May 6, 2015 20:56
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Doctor Butts posted:I could have sworn Coulson/Gonzales ordered May and Bobbi to scout ahead. Nope. Fake May comes up to Bobbi and says Coulson/Gonzales ordered them to scout ahead.
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May 6, 2015 21:00
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VDay posted:It's specifically set up to throw you off for just a second before Agent 33's reveal happens. It maybe wasn't the best execution seeing how many people were simply left a bit confused, but it was clearly their intent. Ah, I must have been remember the scene wrong then, thanks. It was a good bit of misdirection at the time.
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May 6, 2015 21:03
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Chokes McGee posted:I understand her reasoning, sure, but I'm a bit concerned you're sympathizing with someone who up and murdered someone in cold blood after he gave her a literal peace offering. I'm fully onboard with her actions. Gonzales was a dick. Shoulda been turned to stone weeks ago.
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May 6, 2015 21:05
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Doctor Butts posted:I could have sworn Coulson/Gonzales ordered May and Bobbi to scout ahead. Me too. Agent 33 got me good.
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May 6, 2015 21:22
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Let's also remember that Afterlife isn't filled with super powered people. Just people that are Inhumans. They specifically mentioned earlier that most of the people there have never gone through Terrigenesis. And this episode explained how they don't have many crystals and they've been trying to make their own so there's probably only a few actually powered people there.
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May 6, 2015 21:35
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bobkatt013 posted:They should get rid of him and get a giant dog that teleports instead! Would this theoretical dog have a tuning fork?
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May 6, 2015 21:40
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Dohaeris posted:I mean, I totally agree that registration and monitoring of all these people would not be a good idea, but going "oh man all those people have powers" and then "Well we should know what they are so if they misbehave we know who did it" seems reasonable to ask to me. He didn't demand it, he requested it and waited for a reply. I mean, what would you have preferred he do? Hello people who can destroy our entire planet if you want, okay bye just saying hi? The ideas was to negotiate some sort of truce or agreement, and instead of responding to that she went full nutso. I read that whole scene as she was going to go nutso anyway, she wasn't reacting to the offer on the table. That coupled with the fact that Cal "surrendered" tells me she was planning on going on the offensive from the get go, hence Rainas visions.
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May 6, 2015 21:47
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Mokinokaro posted:You know considering TAHITI it would've been interesting to see how the crystal would react to Phil.
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May 6, 2015 21:47
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Coulson's inhuman power is he can breathe in space.
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May 6, 2015 21:50
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Amazing episode. Two lingering questions though: 1. How the hell did Gonzalez manage to sneak in a gun into a meeting with Jiayang? 2. How the hell did Agent 33 hold on to her magic mask? As for Theta protocol, loving called it. I don't find it underwhelming at all. A helicarrier is a big loving deal.
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May 6, 2015 22:33
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The mask cannot be removed, I'm pretty sure they explained that earlier in the season.
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May 6, 2015 22:37
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enraged_camel posted:1. How the hell did Gonzalez manage to sneak in a gun into a meeting with Jiayang? The little-too-convinient-but-hey-it's-a-TV-show answer is that Jiayang knew/figured that he would bring a gun (because of course he would) so she told her people to not pat him down so that she could use said gun to wound herself after she killed him.
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May 6, 2015 22:41
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Whelp, they managed to catch me off guard, though I'm with everyone else who thought that Theta was the old Helicarrier. Though this remains my favorite part of the episode:
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May 6, 2015 22:48
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VDay posted:The little-too-convinient-but-hey-it's-a-TV-show answer is that Jiayang knew/figured that he would bring a gun (because of course he would) so she told her people to not pat him down so that she could use said gun to wound herself after she killed him. Ok, I can believe that. A 10 second bit where they show him offering to hand in his weapon and being told he can keep it would have gone a long way though.
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May 6, 2015 23:04
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Deadpool posted:Let's also remember that Afterlife isn't filled with super powered people. Just people that are Inhumans. They specifically mentioned earlier that most of the people there have never gone through Terrigenesis. And this episode explained how they don't have many crystals and they've been trying to make their own so there's probably only a few actually powered people there. I guess Jiaying really is super raged out at SHIELD if she would waste a precious crystal just to kill Gonzales. LeviathanGunship posted:Whelp, they managed to catch me off guard, though I'm with everyone else who thought that Theta was the old Helicarrier. Though this remains my favorite part of the episode: If there isn't a scene of him ripping a quinjet apart I will be pretty sad.
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May 6, 2015 23:07
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Why would the inhumans pat people down for guns? How often do gun-wielders or any outside person happen to stumble upon the Afterlife, a place which 95% of the inhabitants don't even know the location of? I don't think Jiayang counted on him having a gun, but he was as good as dead when he compared his gimp leg to her cut up body. The rest of this is being played by ear.
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May 6, 2015 23:08
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Jiayang probably could've stabbed herself if he didn't have a gun anyway. Nobody noticed anything was wrong until the gunshots.
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May 6, 2015 23:15
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Voted Worst Mom posted:Why would the inhumans pat people down for guns? How often do gun-wielders or any outside person happen to stumble upon the Afterlife, a place which 95% of the inhabitants don't even know the location of? They're people with the ability to have various mutations, not actual aliens who don't know what guns are. Their leader is meeting with someone from a military organization that they consider a threat and that they think wants to, at the very least, contain them. Patting him down to make sure he isn't just there to kill her (yes she's basically immortal, but I doubt a bullet to the head tickles) as some kind of first step to them coming in and capturing/killing all of them seems like a pretty logical thing to do.
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May 6, 2015 23:17
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Voted Worst Mom posted:Why would the inhumans pat people down for guns? How often do gun-wielders or any outside person happen to stumble upon the Afterlife, a place which 95% of the inhabitants don't even know the location of? I don't think Jiayang counted on him having a gun, but he was as good as dead when he compared his gimp leg to her cut up body. The rest of this is being played by ear. As I said earlier I don't think she was making this up on the fly in reaction to what he said, it is all pre meditated. How else do you explain them giving up Cal out of nowhere, him going quietly and not having any of his hulk juice stash left.
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May 6, 2015 23:19
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mikeraskol posted:The mask cannot be removed, I'm pretty sure they explained that earlier in the season. Yeah the mask is permanently bonded to her face. There was a whole plot about them going to get it fixed so it would hide the part where it melted her actual face and so she could get rid of May's face.
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May 6, 2015 23:22
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Mr Beens posted:How else do you explain them giving up Cal out of nowhere, him going quietly and not having any of his hulk juice stash left. Handing Cal over was Cal's idea. But I agree, and think that CrazyPraents cooked this up between them. Cal was hoping it would be Coulson, of course, but 
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May 6, 2015 23:29
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It was pretty clearly pre-meditated. Gordon makes specific reference to Cal having been denied his serum, yet he has multiple freshly drained vials on him when turned over. Also earlier in the episode you see someone wrapping up one of the crystals in a white cloth the same way she pulls that one out later. It's framed originally as if they're preparing to evacuate the city and are packing up their supplies, but it's pretty clearly the same type of cloth and crystal in both scenes. The confusion from the medic (presumably a medic?) over whether she's sure about it makes more sense in the context of just handing one over to her like that rather than going through the normal channels for their use.
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May 6, 2015 23:39
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Zebulon posted:It was pretty clearly pre-meditated. Gordon makes specific reference to Cal having been denied his serum, yet he has multiple freshly drained vials on him when turned over. Also earlier in the episode you see someone wrapping up one of the crystals in a white cloth the same way she pulls that one out later. It's framed originally as if they're preparing to evacuate the city and are packing up their supplies, but it's pretty clearly the same type of cloth and crystal in both scenes. The confusion from the medic (presumably a medic?) over whether she's sure about it makes more sense in the context of just handing one over to her like that rather than going through the normal channels for their use. Yeah, it's great how well done all that stuff was. Because in hindsight it was pretty clear that's what was going on but at the time you just thought they were evacuating. They did a lot of great framing and editing work in this episode to completely trick the audience while being totally fair about it. Because you can pull a twist like that off really cheaply by basically lying to your audience and it's one thing, but they never really lied to the audience they just used the audiences expectations and had them fill in the missing pieces of the story but we filled in the wrong pieces. That's what a good spy show does.
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May 6, 2015 23:45
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Yeah I actually didn't like the 'twist' at first because I like Jiaying's character and her being the catalyst for everything seemed a bit random, but thinking about it it makes sense both in terms of what they showed us and in terms of the character's history and motivations. It really was a nice curveball and a much more interesting way to start the inevitable SHIELD vs Inhumans arc than having Raina betray everyone again or have some kind of misunderstanding because of her or Ward.
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May 6, 2015 23:57
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Deadpool posted:Yeah, it's great how well done all that stuff was. Because in hindsight it was pretty clear that's what was going on but at the time you just thought they were evacuating. They did a lot of great framing and editing work in this episode to completely trick the audience while being totally fair about it. Because you can pull a twist like that off really cheaply by basically lying to your audience and it's one thing, but they never really lied to the audience they just used the audiences expectations and had them fill in the missing pieces of the story but we filled in the wrong pieces. That's what a good spy show does. Pretty much. The entire episode was misdirecting like crazy until the last 10 minutes when everything starts to fall into place and you realize just how hosed the situation is, but not in the ways you expected it to go. Was expecting Agent 33/Kara to be up to something and when she goes after Bobbi it seems like it's just for her own revenge. Then Ward shows up in perfect CrazyCatWard form. Then Gonzalas goes into the meeting but everything seems to be okay despite his aggressive, gruff, and extremely pessimistic viewpoint on "Enhanced" in previous episodes. He gives the peace offering and his attempts at building rapport seem honest and sincere, he lays out his requests in a reasonable and non-aggressive way with explanations as to why he's requesting it. Then she gets out that cloth and reveals the crystal and you know everything is going to poo poo instantly and he didn't even instigate it like everything since his reveal would suggest to be the case. Then the SHIELD agents find the vials and suddenly another "oh gently caress what have they done" moment has struck the episode. The build up for it all was spectacular, the writing for these last few episodes has been even better than the season's already good baseline. I'm really hoping the writing quality and inertia carries through the finale because it's promising to be amazing if it can. The real fun is when the episode is over when you realize the biggest twist of all in the writing is that for once Raina wasn't lying. VDay posted:Yeah I actually didn't like the 'twist' at first because I like Jiaying's character and her being the catalyst for everything seemed a bit random, but thinking about it it makes sense both in terms of what they showed us and in terms of the character's history and motivations. It really was a nice curveball and a much more interesting way to start the inevitable SHIELD vs Inhumans arc than having Raina betray everyone again or have some kind of misunderstanding because of her or Ward. I get the impression she wanted to fight but didn't think she could pull it off for various reasons. Having experienced outside study firsthand it's incredibly easy to understand why she'd be violently opposed to the idea of it happening again regardless of how benign it promised to be. By the look of things she was preparing to either give in out of lack of other options or evacuate to try and avoid the problem entirely. Once Cal says he'd be willing to fight for her however she seems to figure out how to frame it as SHIELD being the aggressor and puts that plan into motion instead. I loved how even that was misdirected some by playing up Cal and her talking as him flirting with his wife while they have one last night together.
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May 7, 2015 00:18
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Yeah, Agents of Shield rapidly went from worst comics TV show to middle of the pack to best to best by far. Over the course of 1.33 seasons
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May 7, 2015 00:24
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I just realized, we may have Hunter Vs Ward action.
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May 7, 2015 00:26
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Going through the episode again, and I noticed the names on the plaque next to the door where Theta Protocol was being worked on. Supervising Agent Kolpack Agent B. Griggs Agent Tancharoen (?)
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May 7, 2015 00:30
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Man, for an episode I thought the show was going to go back to being fun, but now it's just drama poo poo again. Bring back season 1.
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May 7, 2015 00:31
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PunkBoy posted:Going through the episode again, and I noticed the names on the plaque next to the door where Theta Protocol was being worked on. Tancharoen is the shows stunt coordinator or choreographer.
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May 7, 2015 00:34
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gannyGrabber posted:Man, for an episode I thought the show was going to go back to being fun, but now it's just drama poo poo again. 
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May 7, 2015 00:41
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