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ProfessorCirno posted:Oh no Drizzt inspires characters to try to make their own "special snowflake" characters, AKA PCs THAT ARE INTERESTING. 1985 AD&D's Unearthed Arcana brought out drow and what do you know, "Drow are generally evil and chaotic in nature, though player characters are not required to be so. A dark elf player character is considered an outcast from his or her homeland deep within the earth, whether by matter of choice, alignment, or merely being on the losing side of some family-wide power struggle." Oh but that doesn't count for reasons! Wasn't Drizzt an actual PC from a campaign that its author was playing, and that he was a good-but-outcast Drow specifically because of the playable-PC clause in the race's description?
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May 7, 2015 06:10
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The only thing I remember about Drizzt was finding some white supremist's blog where he talks about how Drizzt isn't really black, because elves are like europeans or something, so it's okay to like him.
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May 7, 2015 06:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:Wasn't Drizzt an actual PC from a campaign that its author was playing, and that he was a good-but-outcast Drow specifically because of the playable-PC clause in the race's description? The answer is far funnier than that. R.A. Salvatore, Dark Elf Trilogy Introduction posted:I knew where Drizzt was conceived, of course: in my office, at my day job. And I knew when he came into being: July 1987, right after my proposal to write The Crystal Shard had been accepted, and right before I actually started writing the book. LightWarden fucked around with this message at 06:21 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 06:19
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Holy poo poo that is amazing. I mean quote:The pause was longer this time. Then, in barely a whisper, the tremor of having to go tell this one to the mucky-mucks evident in her tone, she said, "What's his name?" I'm loving dying oh my god Heliotrope fucked around with this message at 06:26 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 06:23
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LightWarden posted:One of the funnier things about Raistlin is his name occasionally pops up when people talk about dump stats and how you're a power gamer if your wizard dumps Strength or Charisma, wondering why those munchkins aren't more like Raistlin and put themselves through the actual dangers of playing a low-Constitution/low-health character. DL01- Dragons of Despair has the write-ups for the various protagonists and Raistlin's talks about how he wound up at the towers and passed the tests at a terrible cost to his health. His Constitution is 10. To be fair, with only 8 hit points, he is still frail as gently caress. E: haha, no reason for a synopsis now.
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May 7, 2015 06:24
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The problem with Drizzt is that TSR, and Wizard's of the Coast, based half of everything in the Forgotten Realms around him and pushed him because it was the metaplot era. Another problem is that R.A. Salvatore doesn't play anything but 1st edition D&D so Drizzt is no longer relevant other than that he's a character in the Forgotten Realms and can be described with some D&D based adjectives. He also does things that couldn't be explained with 3.X, same was true with Elminster, and WotC didn't know what to do.
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May 7, 2015 06:25
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Heliotrope posted:Holy poo poo that is amazing. Every legacy starts somewhere.
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May 7, 2015 06:26
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R.A. Salvatore is super Jersey too so just read everything in that voice.
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May 7, 2015 06:29
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MonsterEnvy posted:All I am here to post is that I think the Adventure will probably be good and that the Cover looks sweet as hell.  Kurieg posted:Is Drizzt literally immortal now? Even accounting for him being a Drow it's been a couple hundred years in world since 3.5e.  Until this thread I didnt know he was in Neverwinter? Im so behind.)ProfessorCirno posted:Fun note for those whinging about Drizzt - pretty sure The Crystal Shard was written ProfessorCirno posted:Like "In MY setting ALL DROW ARE EVIL" is the dumbest groggy bullshit because that wasn't even true by like the mid-80's All this Drow talk is making me want to go find the Jarlaxle books. I never read those. I need something pulpy and entertaining.
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May 7, 2015 06:40
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The problem with Drizzt is that TSR, and Wizard's of the Coast, based half of everything in the Forgotten Realms around him and pushed him because it was the metaplot era. Another problem is that R.A. Salvatore doesn't play anything but 1st edition D&D so Drizzt is no longer relevant other than that he's a character in the Forgotten Realms and can be described with some D&D based adjectives. He also does things that couldn't be explained with 3.X, same was true with Elminster, and WotC didn't know what to do. Nah, this isn't very accurate. He's part of three big metaplot events from 1E to 3E: the rebuilding of Mithril Hall, the war against Menzo, and the war against Many Arrows. He has nothing to do with the Avatar crisis, the exploration of Maztica, the Horde invasion, the return of Shade, the Rage of Dragons or any of the other big metaplot events. Hell, he's barely even mentioned in the War of the Spider Queen. And every character in D&D novels does stuff that can't be explained by the rules. RocknRollaAyatollah posted:R.A. Salvatore is super Jersey too so just read everything in that voice. He's from Massachusettes. Stop being wrong about my favorite schlock!
PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 06:42 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 06:40
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Drizzt's not even super mary sueish. He's a hero and hero's tend to win in the end, but actually powerful creatures tend to hand him his rear end. In the most recent trilogy of books him and his entire party were attacked by a Lich that the Rogue had pissed off a few years ago. The Lich was handing them their asses and after they realized they were going to die horribly the plan became survive and distract the Lich long enough for our Wizard to get the Imprisonment scroll to go off and trap him in a Gem. Then in the lastest books he ended up fighting a White Dragon Twice (The same one that features in Rise of Tiamat) first time they fight he just gets knocked off a cliff then blasted with Cold Breath and dragon assumes him dead, which he would have had his wife not cast a cold resist spell on him because it was snowy outside. He even forgot about the spell and thought he was dead for a while. Instead he was just in incredible pain and needed a lot of healing. The second time he faced the dragon was as a rider for a Copper Dragon. He was nearly useless as he could not hurt the dragon enough with his shots to make a difference and he could not hit the enemy dragon rider. (Eventually going for the admittedly cool tactic of shooting his opponents saddle's binds so it and he would fall off the dragon during their fight 1000 feet in the air). The closest thing to a mary sueish thing that involved him in the last book was at the very end were it looked like his Goddess had channeled her power through him to dispel a powerful effect that blotted out the sun in that region. He actually had nothing to do with it. The villain who helped set it up Gromph dispelled it and just used his magic trickery to make it look like Drizzt did it. Probably for some evil plan he has that involves all of these Demon Lords as Gromph is supposed to be the one responsible for summoning them according to the Out of the Abyss synopsis. PeterWeller posted:the war against Many Arrows. Were Obould kicked his rear end once and fought in him to a draw a 2nd time despite Obould losing all of his magic gear due to Drow trickery and Drizzt having a super powerful magic sword. (Obould was literally naked and Drizzt could not beat him and this was years ago don't know why so many people think he is a mary sue). MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:06 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 08:02
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FRINGE posted:All this Drow talk is making me want to go find the Jarlaxle books. I never read those. I need something pulpy and entertaining. On the note of Salvatore and this, here's the greatest Jarlaxle story that will ever exist: quote:...I mean, I remember one time when I was writing a book called Servant of the Shard. For the first time, two characters, Artemis Entreri and the dark elf Jarlaxle were going to be the protagonist of the books. And Jarlaxle is kind of like my walking deus ex machina, he’s got like the Batman utility belt. So no matter what comes at him, he’s got some weird magic item that he can use to counter it. And he would just make cameos doing that. It was fun. So all of a sudden, for the first time I’m going to feature this guy in a book, and I was really excited about it until I realized I had no idea what he’s actually got for magic items. I mean, there are too many of them that I’ve put in there. And so I went to an internet….message board, anonymously, and I started a thread called “Let’s Inventory Jarlaxle’s Cool Items” or something like that. And a few days later, I came back and downloaded this ten page thread where people were telling me everything he had, what page in what book it appeared in. It was very cool.
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May 7, 2015 08:12
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ProfessorCirno posted:On the note of Salvatore and this, here's the greatest Jarlaxle story that will ever exist: I gotta say, I don't read the guy's books, but these quotes are really making me like Salvatore.
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May 7, 2015 08:15
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FRINGE posted:All this Drow talk is making me want to go find the Jarlaxle books. I never read those. I need something pulpy and entertaining. As someone who inflicts FR books on himself, the Jarlaxle books are definitely pulpy and entertaining and not The House of Vipers, so go for it. The running gag of Jarlaxle pretending to be The Noble And Good Drow Seeking Redemption, Drizzt whenever he goes into a town because he is probably the only named dark elf people have heard of is pretty great.
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May 7, 2015 08:15
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Night10194 posted:I gotta say, I don't read the guy's books, but these quotes are really making me like Salvatore. Yeah, I agree. He seems pretty cool.
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May 7, 2015 12:17
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Any animosity I ever felt towards R.A.Salvatore completely loving evaporated when I heard him introduce himself as "Bob Salvatore" on a podcast. He comes across as incredibly genuine and likeable.
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May 7, 2015 12:58
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The entire problem with Drizzt, drow, and PCs of evil races is how to deal with fantasy racism. Some players like to treat demihumans as humans with different starting stats, others care a whole bunch about cultural differences and are going to expect any PC orc, goblin, drow, etc to get attacked on sight by villagers.
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May 7, 2015 13:42
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PeterWeller posted:Nah, this isn't very accurate. He's part of three big metaplot events from 1E to 3E: the rebuilding of Mithril Hall, the war against Menzo, and the war against Many Arrows. He has nothing to do with the Avatar crisis, the exploration of Maztica, the Horde invasion, the return of Shade, the Rage of Dragons or any of the other big metaplot events. Hell, he's barely even mentioned in the War of the Spider Queen. I'm not attacking Salvatore or the character, just how TSR and WotC handled it and why it makes people dislike the character. Drizzt for instance being shoehorned into both Baldur's Gates, same with Elminster, is a good example of pushing him. Salvatore is a guy who writes a fantasy series based in a premade setting and it's not bad for schlock. quote:He's from Massachusettes. Stop being wrong about my favorite schlock! For some reason I remember his accent being a lot more outrageous. EDIT: Most of the hate I think should be pointed out is based on grognards and having that one guy at the table who really had to copy Drizzt because they were very unoriginal. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 15:30 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 15:21
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I'm not attacking Salvatore or the character, just how TSR and WotC handled it and why it makes people dislike the character. Drizzt for instance being shoehorned into both Baldur's Gates, same with Elminster, is a good example of pushing him. Oh, I don't think you are. But I'm saying your criticism of TSR and WotC's treatment of him is unfounded. The BG games are the only time they actually shoehorned him into something, and as somebody else mentioned, in BG2, he's just another dude you can recruit for the assault on the vampires.
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May 7, 2015 15:42
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D&D NEXT: Drizzt Appreciation Thread
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May 7, 2015 15:54
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dwarf74 posted:D&D NEXT: Drizzt Appreciation Thread Sometimes I think the Tradgames forum goes out of its way to find the prevailing opinion on a subject and argue against it because grogs and morons must always be wrong, and come up with supporting evidence after the fact. I mean, they usually are, but just because a something is widely believed doesn't automatically mean it's wrong. Still the least lovely forum on the subject mind you.
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May 7, 2015 16:07
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I have a Drizzt miniature that came with the old Kilsek Legion box set for the Chainmail tactical game WOTC flirted with before dumping it for plastic minis a decade ago. It's a weird model because he has a mohawk for some reason, but is otherwise verifiably Drizzt. Same armor, same twin scimitars. Always wondered if that model was sculpted based on some brief period where he was rocking a hawk.
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May 7, 2015 16:16
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My exposure to Drizzt has mostly been through everyone's 13th totally-not-drizzt clone. So I'm glad to hear he's not actually that bad and more suffering from being an over-exposed parody of himself. I would like them to actually devote some effort to making new characters, rather than figuring out excuses why everyone from 3.5 is still alive and being movers and shakers when the world has been through two or three uphevals in the past 170 years. I mean, a while back Neverwinter had Minsc and Boo show up with the flimsiest justification I've seen in a while (he was apparently petrified at some point after BG2 and then a wild mage cast a spell near said statue and Poof look Minsc and Boo look at that) just so that they could scratch people's nostalgia itch and get them back into playing the game.
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May 7, 2015 16:24
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Minsc was 2e, wasn't he?
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May 7, 2015 16:26
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Tunicate posted:Minsc was 2e, wasn't he? Yep, via Baldur's Gate.
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May 7, 2015 16:28
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He would have still been alive in 3.5 though since there wasn't much time progression. 4e and 5e is when they did the 70 year jumps.
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May 7, 2015 16:33
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Forgotten Realms drow elves live longer than original flavor elves so who knows. I remember reading there are drow who are 900 or over a thousand years old without using magic.
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May 7, 2015 17:22
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They're talking about Minsc, not Drizzt. Also, regular elves live as long as 1100 years in D&D, though I think Matron Baenre waa supposed to be the longest living elf, regular or drow, in the Realma before Bruenor killes her.
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May 7, 2015 17:43
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I just realized that. He's also in a grey area of being official/unofficial because the events of the Baldur's Gate games are not canon. Some elements are but as a whole they're a thing that gets ignored unless that's been changed recently. Did they change this recently? I know he's in the new comic series that came out a short while ago but I assumed it wasn't canon or anything. EDIT: It seems to be tied into the whole Tyranny of Dragons adventure path, which is 5th ed and would make him pretty old. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 17:53
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The games aren't official canon, but their novelizations are.
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May 7, 2015 17:58
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Night10194 posted:I gotta say, I don't read the guy's books, but these quotes are really making me like Salvatore. The main thing is that he knows exactly who and what he is. I mean the dude was a factory worker by day, bouncer by night, who wanted to write his kinda dumb but ultimately entertaining fantasy books, and got the chance to do just that. By all accounts his's a great writer to hire out for because he gets his poo poo done without muss or fuss. He doesn't think of himself as GREATEST WRITER EVER because he frankly doesn't want to BE that.
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May 7, 2015 21:09
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ProfessorCirno posted:The main thing is that he knows exactly who and what he is. I mean the dude was a factory worker by day, bouncer by night, who wanted to write his kinda dumb but ultimately entertaining fantasy books, and got the chance to do just that. By all accounts his's a great writer to hire out for because he gets his poo poo done without muss or fuss. He doesn't think of himself as GREATEST WRITER EVER because he frankly doesn't want to BE that. This actually makes me feel bad that I picked up some random book of his and started it, but couldn't get past the first chapter or so. Because I admire people like that, it's just I couldn't get into his writing.
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May 7, 2015 21:24
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ProfessorCirno posted:The main thing is that he knows exactly who and what he is. I mean the dude was a factory worker by day, bouncer by night, who wanted to write his kinda dumb but ultimately entertaining fantasy books, and got the chance to do just that. By all accounts his's a great writer to hire out for because he gets his poo poo done without muss or fuss. He doesn't think of himself as GREATEST WRITER EVER because he frankly doesn't want to BE that. Yeah, that's the impression I get and it's really refreshing. Plus, it sounds like he's really happy doing his thing, his audience likes it a lot, and he's good at the thing he's doing, so good on him for managing to make a career doing creative stuff.
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May 7, 2015 21:27
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Daetrin posted:This actually makes me feel bad that I picked up some random book of his and started it, but couldn't get past the first chapter or so. Because I admire people like that, it's just I couldn't get into his writing.
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May 7, 2015 21:28
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I just realized that. He's also in a grey area of being official/unofficial because the events of the Baldur's Gate games are not canon. Some elements are but as a whole they're a thing that gets ignored unless that's been changed recently. It seems to be at more or less his prime still because he a literal statue brought to life by WIld Magic. Anyway Baldur's gate for sure happened in canon. The Murder in Baldur's gate Adventure was about the last two Bhaalspawn from the games dying and Bhaal coming back to life. The elf Coran is also a Duke of Baldur's gate for other fun facts.
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May 7, 2015 21:45
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In case you needed further reasons to like Salvatore, I point you toward this little snippet from a convention; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzpgAQpcp8o
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May 7, 2015 21:51
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Also link to some concept art for the new storyline http://tribality.com/2015/05/06/rage-of-demons-storyline-art/
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May 7, 2015 23:21
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Generic Octopus posted:I mean, it's okay to like a guy and also not like his writing. And I want to like his writing! Pulp is crazy fun when you feel like a popcorn book. Oh well.
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May 7, 2015 23:22
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Daetrin posted:And I want to like his writing! Pulp is crazy fun when you feel like a popcorn book. Oh well. You could try reading one of his books again.
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May 7, 2015 23:45
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Yeah, maybe that book you didn't enjoy will be different this time around.
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May 8, 2015 00:25
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