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I'm bored so i'm watching the Choke documentary on youtube and there are a couple of things I don't know about the history of mma. So mma was called Vale Tudo back in the 80s and/or 90s? Is Shooto or shootfighting a different thing and independent thing from vale tudo/mma and are there different rulesets? Where do Pride and Pancrase fit in? Why does Pride allow so much of stuff you can't do in UFC like soccer kicks? Why does Pancrase have that escape thing where you can touch the rope?In the beginning of choke, there are clips of Koichiro Kimura fighting in some weird rear end tournament that is on a wrestling mat (molski?) and they can't punch the head, what the hell is that? Also why Sakuraba is said to be a catch wrestler? How come catch wrestling is associated with some japanese fighters? How is catch wrestling different from jiu jitsu?
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May 7, 2015 22:24
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ManOfTheYear posted:I'm bored so i'm watching the Choke documentary on youtube and there are a couple of things I don't know about the history of mma. So mma was called Vale Tudo back in the 80s and/or 90s? Vale Tudo is originally what no-holds-barred anything goes challenge fighting was called in Brazil. The UFC was Rorian's attempt to bring this to America in order to promote Gracie Jiujitsu, since the whole family had a long history of and experience with vale tudo using BJJ. "Mixed Martial Arts" is what they started calling the sport once a full ruleset evolved and they started trying to get it sanctioned in America. quote:Is Shooto or shootfighting a different thing and independent thing from vale tudo/mma and are there different rulesets? Shootfighting is a sport, Shooto is an organization. Shooto was promoting "shootfighting" (kickboxing on the feet with grappling on the ground) as early as 1989; as MMA became popular elsewhere Shootfighting rules got changed more and more to resemble them, and fairly rapidly there wasn't any actual difference. quote:Where do Pride and Pancrase fit in? Pancrase started out as a "shoot pro-wrestling" show a couple years before the UFC started. It was originally one or two "real" matches with a bunch of stiff works; as the UFC and RINGS and other MMA promotions became more popular it got further and further from pro-wrestling and closer and closer to mma until it was just another mma promotion. Untangling which fights were legit and which were works is a headache because anytime you ask anybody that fought there the answer is always "Oh yeah, there were a bunch of works, but of course all MY fights were legit" even when this is patently ridiculous. PRIDE was Takada's attempt to use his pro-wrestling fame to carry a full rival MMA promotion in Japan that would get big international stars, eclipse Pancrase and compete with the UFC. He used his personal stardom and TV connections to get it on television and it became very popular while it lasted. It eventually fell victim to the big yakuza scandals of the mid-aughts. quote:Why does Pride allow so much of stuff you can't do in UFC like soccer kicks? Because there's no governing body in Japan so there was no one to prevent them from doing so. The only constraint on them were the TV executives (which is why elbows were banned; for the same reason they were in K-1. The tv stations didn't like blood in primetime.) quote:Why does Pancrase have that escape thing where you can touch the rope? It's a prowrestling thing. quote:Also why Sakuraba is said to be a catch wrestler? How come catch wrestling is associated with some japanese fighters? How is catch wrestling different from jiu jitsu? Back in the early 1900's, up through the 40's and 50's, although professional wrestling was thoroughly predetermined, it was still expected for the top guys to be able to actually wrestle/grapple, because otherwise you were at risk of someone who could "shooting" on you and beating you in a match you were supposed to win. Because of that, "catch wrestling" as an actual grappling style existed, and has survived in places. While the idea of top guys being "real shooters" basically died in the 70's and 80's in the US, in Japan it survived in certain promotions, and consequently there was a lot of live grappling training that went on behind closed doors. Saku was a prowrestler long before PRIDE began, and he turned out to be very, very talented at the real grappling side of things. With the major evolution of grappling that's taken place in the last two or three decades the actual differences between "catch wrestling" and no gi BJJ/shootwrestling/any other no-gi style are minimal, but some people get really persnickety about it.
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May 7, 2015 22:42
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Thanks for the effort post man, I appreciate it. There is a one old wrestler dude where I live who apparently has a lot of catch experience, I don't know how he got it but the man is kind of an douche so nobody wants to deal with him. His skills seem to be legit though, the techniques were really loving brutal when he demoed some of his stuff. On the topic of mma, been listening to Joe Rogan Experience a lot and he's been talking about how leaving the gloves out of mma would make it safer and more realistic. What do goons think about this and how are you supposed to fight full contact without gloves? Shouldn't that change the game up quite a bit?
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May 7, 2015 23:05
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ManOfTheYear posted:On the topic of mma, been listening to Joe Rogan Experience a lot and he's been talking about how leaving the gloves out of mma would make it safer and more realistic. What do goons think about this and how are you supposed to fight full contact without gloves? Shouldn't that change the game up quite a bit? I'd imagine there would be very little punching because it would be too risky ( for the puncher ), and thus more kicks/grappling. I'm not really sure how it would make it "safer" except to encourage more grappling which I suppose would reduce concussion damage from less punching.
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May 7, 2015 23:18
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TollTheHounds posted:I'd imagine there would be very little punching because it would be too risky ( for the puncher ), and thus more kicks/grappling. I'm not really sure how it would make it "safer" except to encourage more grappling which I suppose would reduce concussion damage from less punching. A friend of mine is a former pro boxer (not a very successful one) and said the same. Remove the gloves and you'll get less concussions. (And a lot more blood).
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May 7, 2015 23:22
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TollTheHounds posted:I'd imagine there would be very little punching because it would be too risky ( for the puncher ), and thus more kicks/grappling. Fortunately you don't actually have to imagine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9UymLZA-f4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1298RJhPZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ka_H1yLzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WQ0RHmf9v0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZL8tZvJ_wQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ZQnV4znvo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVGuyOs6SLw
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May 7, 2015 23:25
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Matt Brown would be the UFC no-gloves welterweight champion, hands down. Or up, rather, as he flings bitchin' elbows and forearms into people's faces.
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May 7, 2015 23:31
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It's the case that most girls/women attend martial art classes to learn how to fight off sex attackers. Whereas men attend classes to learn how to fight.
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May 7, 2015 23:59
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osietra posted:It's the case that most girls/women attend martial art classes to learn how to fight off sex attackers. Come on, dude.
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May 8, 2015 00:13
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fatherdog posted:Fortunately you don't actually have to imagine - Oh wow, that sure is something. MMA has come a real long way, now UFC looks like a real sports event and this looks something like rednecks Bill & Bobby put up on their backyard. I still think there is a big difference between bad fighters doing something and good fighters doing something, like MMA today with really good fighters would look different from that even if they had no gloves. As far as rules go, I think you will always have rules that are unrealistic. I really like combat sambo because it emphasizes so much of the throw, because on hard ground a big throw is just as (or more) of a fightstopper as a submission or a knockout. MMA can sometimes feel frustrating when othe other guy throws the other around for many rounds but can't submit his opponent and then he loses in a submission many rounds later. You could call that unrealistic, but then again so is getting stood up or having rounds or going gi or no-gi or whatever. No matter how free you want your tournament to be, the rules will emphasize some form of fighting more than others and you can't avoid that and it's not really a bad thing. I've been starting to think that sumo is very realistic because when I'm working as a bouncer and grappling with drunken people I'm in very tight places (indoors with furniture) and the sumo ring is very small and I'm trying to push the drunk somewhere (out of the door/against the wall) or put him into the ground and in sumo you win by pushing the other guy out of the ring or putting him into the ground. People try to punch me and open hand strikes are allowed in sumo so I learn to deal with getting hit and hitting in sumo. There are no weight classes in sumo like in real life. Even if the opponent doesn't have a belt (lot of people do) most pants have a strong enough waist that you can grab them and control the other person like that, so the mawashi loin cloth makes sense. So you could say sumo is very realistic because it encourages the same kind of actions I need when I have to use force in my work. But still, it's sumo. So I don't know about the realism argument with no-gloves mma. It's a sport and realism is something that varies from place to place. ManOfTheYear fucked around with this message at 00:22 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 00:20
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We've already seen what happens with fighters of varying disciplines fighting under sumo rules (with strikes) - Dutch kick boxer with takedown defense wins
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May 8, 2015 00:24
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osietra posted:It's the case that most girls/women attend martial art classes to learn how to fight off sex attackers. I've known at least one female who has used her skills in grappling to improve her own capacity as a sexual aggressor.
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May 8, 2015 00:26
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i know some girls that do bjj because its fun and great exercise
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May 8, 2015 00:59
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gently caress I tweaked my back again slipping fist bombs. I'm gonna change my style: lift more, eat more, and then just go forward. This slipping strikes poo poo ain't for me no mo.
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May 8, 2015 16:32
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Ligur posted:gently caress I tweaked my back again slipping fist bombs. Uhhhh.
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May 8, 2015 16:38
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Xguard86 posted:Uhhhh. Hey it's not fun to have back issues. God drat sitting at the computer to pay rent. edit: I can still deadlift without a worry in the world (this far) but certain fast slips I've learned back in the day can really compress disks and crunch nerves that didn't happen 5 or 10 years ago 
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May 8, 2015 16:50
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Ligur posted:Hey it's not fun to have back issues. Just how much are you moving to skip a punch? It should be... minimal.
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May 8, 2015 18:25
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VulgarandStupid posted:Just how much are you moving to skip a punch? It should be... minimal. Often a gently caress too much. I don't trust my lower back and somehow keep "testing" it and load up on counters and slips to see if it holds up, if this makes any sense? Meanwhile sparring makes me overreact righ now, probably because I'm afraid I'm going to tweak a muscle or hurt myself if I even try. What a sorry state! In addition, I'm one of the fools who bend on the waist 90% of the time (not very smart if your partner has heard of an "uppercut") instead of the knees, so it stresses my back more than it should. I "learned" how to slip headshots before I had any back issues so bending from the waist and weaving fast comes naturally when I'm tired or the opponent is fast. Seriously considering dropping sparring completely. edit: or then go back to the earlier day when 90% of my boxing defence was eating the shots, believing I will land one more to score the point, and stiffling and blocking with shoulders, elbows and handtraps. Perhaps I got a bit too excited with the head and torso movement. Hell yeah it's fun when you can slip ALL the punches! But it's less fun when 30% of the time after you need medication to get over it
Ligur fucked around with this message at 20:21 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 19:43
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Ligur posted:Seriously considering dropping sparring completely. How old are you? My major thing with judo and jiu jitsu is that with a bit of luck and avoiding the worst injuries it's possible to still roll and practice in your sixties. With striking stuff the wall seems to be there much, much earlier.
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May 8, 2015 21:44
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Does anyone know anything about the Kokushi Budo Institute? It's within walking distance and I was thinking of taking some judo during the summer.
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May 8, 2015 21:50
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Verisimilidude posted:Does anyone know anything about the Kokushi Budo Institute? It's within walking distance and I was thinking of taking some judo during the summer. Stuff like this would make me very sceptical: quote:Founder, 10th Degree Red belt, Kokushiryu Jujutsu
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May 8, 2015 22:30
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quote:Our martial arts academy in NYC specializes in jiu jitsu, judo, karate, and aikido. Uhhhhhh that's not what "specialize" means. 2nd vote for sketchy.
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May 8, 2015 22:46
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Sometimes there's diamonds in the rough. I've been to gyms that were McDojo as gently caress but the, say, Muay Thai program was run by a completely different individual than everything else and he did his own thing sans the kids and all that poo poo. I agree with everyone said but at least try it out. Try them all out
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May 8, 2015 23:44
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ManOfTheYear posted:How old are you? My major thing with judo and jiu jitsu is that with a bit of luck and avoiding the worst injuries it's possible to still roll and practice in your sixties. With striking stuff the wall seems to be there much, much earlier. Hey we'll be both boxing and rolling when 60 or 70 no problem, for a hobby. I swear. My striking club is great people, 65 year old guys are going at it but we respect each other. I'm "ancient" too: look at my reg date, closer to 40 than 30 as of recently. I never used to mangle myself that much, but now it's uarrggh. Miss a stretch before doing something? Yeah I'm are going to loving DIE. That said, part of my own fault, I have not been living like someone who competes for a few years, since I gave up on it in a way. I just want to train, lift, and strike (no reason not to get into grappling again either) but not because I want to fight the 10 or 15 year old younger guys anymore. I do it because I love it and and if I can give something to the new guys and girls the better. Also I do it so I won't be one of those people who can't get into a bus without serious effort or run to a tram without dying, when I'm 45 or 55 or 65. I'll be boxing as long as I can raise my arms, for sure.
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May 9, 2015 02:28
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Metamoris AND Copa Podio tonight, chaps. I've got the BJJ club coming round, and two televisions set up so we can watch both at the same time (mainly because Metamoris has massive breaks in the action). Should be a good night for grapplefans.
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May 9, 2015 11:32
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Also flosports is showing the ADCC trials starting in a couple hours. e: apparently its $15 
Kekekela fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 9, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 13:10
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This was linked in the Mayweather x Pacquiao discussion, regarding grappling tactics in modern boxing: http://fightland.vice.com/blog/wrestling-practice-with-james-toney-and-floyd-mayweather I do that 2-on-1 arm trap in kickboxing a lot if my opponent is worse in the clinch than I am. But I can really only do it when standing southpaw and facing an orthodox opponent. If their cross is slower than mine, I'll shoot it out half-heartedly with an eye on guarding my head and bat down their lead hand with mine. Then I either stall until the break or step behind their lead leg with my rear leg and toss them. I wanna try out that amiuchi wrench, where having the mirrored feet make it a shorter distance to unbalance them.
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May 11, 2015 10:06
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Did anyone watch Metamoris over the weekend? Was it any good?
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May 11, 2015 20:03
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Deathy McDeath posted:Did anyone watch Metamoris over the weekend? Was it any good? I did, and I found it a bit dull, to be honest. Not as good as Metamoris 5. But then I was fairly drunk so YMMV.
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May 11, 2015 20:09
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Deathy McDeath posted:Did anyone watch Metamoris over the weekend? Was it any good? I caught Barnett vs Ryron, I was sad because anecdotally, from my coach, Barnett is a cool bro, and I'd like to think Ryron is the coolest and chillest bro of all of the gracies. I wanted it to go to draw. 
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May 11, 2015 22:05
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KildarX posted:I caught Barnett vs Ryron, I was sad because anecdotally, from my coach, Barnett is a cool bro, and I'd like to think Ryron is the coolest and chillest bro of all of the gracies. I wanted it to go to draw. i wanted barnett to win for the glory of prowres
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May 11, 2015 23:37
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Slaapaav posted:i wanted barnett to win for the glory of prowres This too.
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May 12, 2015 02:26
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I'm going to start boxing again for the first time in over a year. Anything that I should keep in mind/know before hand?
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May 13, 2015 03:26
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Warm up
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May 13, 2015 03:29
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littleorv posted:I'm going to start boxing again for the first time in over a year. Anything that I should keep in mind/know before hand? How much training did you have before?
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May 13, 2015 03:45
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kimbo305 posted:How much training did you have before? About 2 years. I had some amateur fights. I came off and on for another year after that. Evening university courses have kept me busy.
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May 13, 2015 03:52
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littleorv posted:About 2 years. I had some amateur fights. I came off and on for another year after that. Evening university courses have kept me busy. Don't forget to put on your cup and mouthguard.
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May 13, 2015 04:04
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littleorv posted:About 2 years. I had some amateur fights. I came off and on for another year after that. Evening university courses have kept me busy. At your level the guy with the better cardio is going to win 95% of the time in sparring (though sparring isn't about "winning" but you get my drift) or an amateur fight so start running and doing 5 minute rounds with the heavy bag. And keep your hands up.
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May 13, 2015 10:47
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Ligur posted:At your level the guy with the better cardio is going to win 95% of the time in sparring (though sparring isn't about "winning" but you get my drift) or an amateur fight so start running and doing 5 minute rounds with the heavy bag. And keep your hands up. Huh. How long does it usually take to get the skills on a levewel where you can win with a mediocore/lovely cardio?
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May 13, 2015 21:34
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ManOfTheYear posted:Huh. How long does it usually take to get the skills on a levewel where you can win with a mediocore/lovely cardio? See: Tony , fat, james Or that French guy that murdered gsp's Tuf team after drinking and smoking all night.
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May 13, 2015 21:59
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