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nyxnyxnyx posted:Thanks for the answers PaybackJack! I have another general question: Do games get longer / have more strategic/tactical depth as you get better at the game? As it is it feels like games are really short and usually are over in one turn, sometimes 2. In general, yes. Part of learning to play the game is knowing which battles are worth fighting. Someone wants to pull off A Coach Comes to Town? Fine, let them have their ghost rock. Someone is camping your Pharmacy? Sucks, bro, but you know they're trying to pick a fight because they've got a hand full of cards that will turn your shooters into shitters.
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Apr 23, 2015 10:23
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Yes, this game is quite strategic and a game that's over in 1-2 turns usually means either 1 person is playing overly aggressive(either because they're new or because they're purposefully trying to take you out quick). However agro decks are not particularly common, and even Sloane would rather you not buy into their aggression and just let them gain an advantage from being bold so they can have a super strong mid game position. Last night I lost Angelica early on due to a tied shootout hand with a chump. I still got my rock but it hurt, thankfully I had a Recruitment Drive in hand and immediately brought her back because my opponent's board state was locked down and he couldn't contest it with anyone other other than Jake Smiley. By the end of the second turn I had 4 control points in 2 from Allie, 1 from the Fixer being at 4 Bounty and 1 on Lawrence Blackwood from a Meet the New Boss. I had used my Coachwhip in lowball to lock down his second huckster and that pretty much sealed the deal. However this is exactly how the deck should work and is meant to counter 4R and their slower control style. Usually decks do not get setup this fast or apply as much pressure early, however it is something that some players will build around so it helps to be able to look out for it. In these type of decks, don't be afraid to mess with your starting posse and run a lot more studs, even if it means a high upkeep early on. Adjusting your starting posse is an important meta aspect of the game and something you should be aware of. It's sort of like the equivalent of a sideboard. And take Jonas' advice. Don't drop a big deed early that you can't defend or at least pretend to defend and remember that a tie is a loss on both sides so don't be afraid to send old Travis out there to gently caress with their best shooter. 2 stud vs 2 draw are not really that different depending on your value structure.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:17
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Is this a RPS kind of relationship, where shooting-focused decks beat partial shooting with deeds, partial shooting with deeds beats pure no-structure deeds decks, and the deeds deck can turtle out the shooting-focused deck?
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Apr 23, 2015 13:10
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nyxnyxnyx posted:Is this a RPS kind of relationship, where shooting-focused decks beat partial shooting with deeds, partial shooting with deeds beats pure no-structure deeds decks, and the deeds deck can turtle out the shooting-focused deck? I would say the balance is a bit broader than that although some decks do have decks they perform better/worse against it's not nearly so hard a meta as RPS. Control decks that are built well and make better earlier game choices against agro decks can weather that early storm and come out on top just like an agro deck can reclaim a strong board position from a control deck late game with the right moves. It's just more a situation that a deck which needs time to get setup is going to have a tougher time against a deck that puts them under the gun from the first play. There's no real hard metric for what beats what because all the factions have fairly equal access to all the cards in the meta that define a deck. Dudes are the only things that are tied to a faction and that only really matters for starting dudes. You can build a deck that can change tempo pretty easily and often times the board state and cards you've drawn will determine how fast or slow you'll play. Obviously you can weight that in deck building, but it still matters what you actually draw. If I draw a ton of shootout actions in the early game I'll probably be more aggressive with my Travis or whoever throw away gun I'm playing simply because those cards will probably allow me to win a shootout if someone feels like trying to fight me over nothing. A good player might see my aggression and like Jonas mentioned not bother trying to fight me over 1-2 income and force me to cycle those action cards that I'd rather play, while they drop more deeds and/or dudes until they get to a point where they can afford to lose a guy in order to draw out all my good action cards in a shootout. A lot of the game is making aggressive plays to see how players react and then using that information to determine future plays. If my first action is to move a guy to town square for example, that's a pretty aggressive play as I can call you out if you move there, but I can also play a deed knowing that if you want to move to it unbooted you have to go through a situation where you could get called out. So it's both an aggressive play and a defensive one. If my opponent comes into town square and opposes me depending on who he sends he might be looking for a fight or calling my bluff. These are things that aren't immediately apparent to new players and they just assume that moving to town square and having a big fight there with all your guys is how the game goes. If I'm playing someone new and they send their best shooter to town, I'll probably just refuse the call out that comes next turn and bide my time. Often times I'll also pressure someone's best shooter with one of my chumps simply because going into a 1v1 shootout with my chump, pistol whipping them home and ending the shootout is a great play for me. A guy at home booted can't do anything with some powerful card effects and that's well worth calling them out with my chump for.
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Apr 23, 2015 14:39
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Thanks, these are incredibly helpful!
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Apr 23, 2015 19:19
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Thanks for all the discussion lately. I'm not entirely sure what the tipping point has been, but before the game came out I tried the print and play and my eyes just kind of glazed over and it seemed far more obtuse than even Netrunner. Reading up more on it and watching some videos have completely sold me on it though. While I'm mainly looking to get started with a few casual decks to have a 3 player multiplayer game, I was also thinking that I was interested in Law Dogs especially and particularly Mad Science. What might it look like? I can see the use of having someone neutral like Roderick Byre starting, and structuring it around higher value cards for pulls, but I'm curious if there were any good starting points other than Andreas/Byre/Mortimer to build around Auto-Revolver and Flamethrower.
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Apr 23, 2015 23:30
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Gravy Train Robber posted:While I'm mainly looking to get started with a few casual decks to have a 3 player multiplayer game, I was also thinking that I was interested in Law Dogs especially and particularly Mad Science. What might it look like? I can see the use of having someone neutral like Roderick Byre starting, and structuring it around higher value cards for pulls, but I'm curious if there were any good starting points other than Andreas/Byre/Mortimer to build around Auto-Revolver and Flamethrower. Yes, there are. I think I've already extolled my love for Drew Beauman here but in case I didn't I'll highly recommend you use him. His ability helps to negate one of the biggest disadvantages of Gadgets and that is booting to invent them. This not only allows you to use him to invent multiple gadgets a turn but also gives him flexibility in being able to invent off his ability then go out and move around. If you're running the vanilla outfit he's a great to use for the outfit ability after he's already invented whatever was in your hand during lowball. As far as gadgets themselves go, starting Tommy Harden and running Forcefield is a fantastic combination as long as you can keep the rock to power the Forcefield. Qaterman is a cheap to invent 1 stud dude that can't be messed with and cheap to get out. Running 6s for One Good Turn is great because that value gives you Mortimer Parsons. Holy Wheel Gun and Killer Bunnies which are 3 great cards for you. My current LDs run a lot of gadgets but I'd go with Holy Wheel Gun, Forcefield, Autorevolver and Qaterman.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:48
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Is spamming deeds to gain control points as rapidly as possible that can't be meaningfully contested a viable strategy?
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Apr 24, 2015 17:24
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Deviant posted:Is spamming deeds to gain control points as rapidly as possible that can't be meaningfully contested a viable strategy? Yeah, and I don't know how to deal with it. It swept the first tournament I was at.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:37
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Deviant posted:Is spamming deeds to gain control points as rapidly as possible that can't be meaningfully contested a viable strategy? It is a viable strategy but you have to be careful, dropping a ton of deeds is likely to make you vulnerable as well and with a lot of cheap dudes that people can run, even a single Steven Wiles can turn the table back on you. If you're building deedslide, run a ton of cheap dudes like the non-unique clown, and Rumors. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 07:37
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Just did the tutorial turn with my wife. This game seems awesome and the tutorial is quite possibly the best board game tutorial I've ever seen.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:51
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http://www.alderac.com/doomtown/2015/04/29/frontier-justice-preview-louis-pasteur/ Doomtown Reloaded gets some history.
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Apr 30, 2015 04:37
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Jonas Albrecht posted:http://www.alderac.com/doomtown/2015/04/29/frontier-justice-preview-louis-pasteur/ As someone who was going to let the Mayor Nic thing slide, I gotta say that's getting a bit silly for my tastes. Please tell me he gets eaten by carnivorous cattle, that'd just be swell. 
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May 5, 2015 22:53
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May 7, 2015 04:47
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Are those jackalopes?
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May 7, 2015 06:54
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Zombie #246 posted:Are those jackalopes? Yes.
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May 7, 2015 06:55
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I'm strongly dissatisfied about how heavily they nerf'd Jackalope Stampede. That poo poo was hilarious and a possible counter to Deed Avalanche decks.
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May 7, 2015 07:12
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Father Wendigo posted:I'm strongly dissatisfied about how heavily they nerf'd Jackalope Stampede. That poo poo was hilarious and a possible counter to Deed Avalanche decks. Jackalope Stampede (and Flight of Angels, et all) were fixes for a very different game. Besides, easy permanent sniping has always been an issue for the game, and I'm not eager to see it come back.
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May 7, 2015 07:17
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Jackalope Stampede (and Flight of Angels, et all) were fixes for a very different game. Besides, easy permanent sniping has always been an issue for the game, and I'm not eager to see it come back. Oh come on, there is nothing more entertaining than watching a deck centered on Cheatin' desperately praying for a Non-Cheatin' lowball hand while they're forced to discard every card on the board. I know it's an entirely different metagame, but I'm still a bit grouchy that Deed-Rush is still a legitimate strategy.
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May 7, 2015 07:21
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Father Wendigo posted:Oh come on, there is nothing more entertaining than watching a deck centered on Cheatin' desperately praying for a Non-Cheatin' lowball hand while they're forced to discard every card on the board. I figure we're an Arson away from that being a real problem.
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May 7, 2015 07:24
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Deed rush is a good way to tell how fast your deck is moving. If they're off building a bunch of early deeds and you aren't either able to go fight them, or just straight up take control of the deeds yourself then your deck is moving too slow. Deeds, for the most part do not have a lot of utility beyond being able to generate income in comparison to spells or gadgets so late game you should be outpacing them with either of those or beating them early game with strong action cards. I made a new gadget deck with Morgan and giving a bunch of Pagaillicos the Ballot Counter gadget is hilarious in theme. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 16:12 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 16:08
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Double postin' because there's a great new weapon coming out of Frontier Justice. Perfect thing to toss on those high influence dudes that aren't good shooters to give them a decent shot at surviving an Ambush or Kidnappin', but not worthless to put on a guy that's already a good shooter either.
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May 7, 2015 18:54
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Did the artist try to make an action blur of a levered shotgun like it was a breach barrel? I'm totally lost on that artwork. Card seems okay.
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May 8, 2015 03:03
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My horse control deck wasn't really cutting it, so I morphed it into this: Gadget Weenies Morgan Gadgetorium Starting with 4 wealth, 1 income and 4 influence ♠ Spades (* starting posse) (14) 1x A Irving Patterson* 1x A William Specks* 1x 2 Kyle Wagner* 1x 5 Travis Moone* 1x 5 Chuān “Jen” Qí* 2x 7 James Ghetty 1x 8 Jon Longstride 2x 8 Steven Wiles 1x 8 Lane Healey 1x 9 Jarrett Blake 1x 9 Arvid Mardh 1x Q Max Baine ♣ Clubs (13) 2x 7 Kidnappin' 2x 7 Pinned Down 2x 8 This’ll Hurt in the Mornin’ 2x 8 Reserves 2x 9 Cheatin' Varmint 2x 9 Tail Between Yer Legs 1x Q It's Not What You Know... ♦ Diamonds (11) 1x 7 Cattle Market 2x 7 Blake Ranch 2x 8 Circle M Ranch 2x 8 Pat's Perch 1x 9 Bunkhouse 2x 9 Morgan Research Institute 1x Q General Store ♥ Hearts (14) 2x 7 Auto-Revolver 2x 7 Pinto 2x 8 Force Field 2x 8 Flame-Thrower 4x 9 Mechanical Horse 2x Q Bio-Charged Neutralizer Jokers (2) 1x Joker (black) 1x Joker (red) It's a pretty straightforward deck. Put gadgets on mad scientists, run amok. Max Baine is a fantastic clutch card. Dropping him into play late in a turn can really screw with your opponent's Inf/Con math.
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May 12, 2015 09:55
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New preview: Fancy New Hat 
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May 12, 2015 09:58
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A fellow named Jason Summerfield posted this in the facebook topic and it's too good not to share.; although that's a pretty terrible idea.
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May 12, 2015 11:03
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Frontier Justice spoilers. Liking the look of all the grifters for the different factions.
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May 15, 2015 12:40
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PaybackJack posted:Frontier Justice spoilers. Law Dogs' seems pretty great.
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May 15, 2015 13:48
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PaybackJack posted:Frontier Justice spoilers. Shield of Faith was what I've been waiting for in a Miracle, Funtime Freddy is excellent for a hex-centric 4th Ring, and I think Marion Seville is the first card I'd really want to promote via Experience - and I really want a 'Francine' card now.
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May 15, 2015 16:24
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All the Grifters are backup blessed/mad scientist/huckster for your starting posse as well, in case you're worried about first turn Kidnappings. Also, you get four more Unprepareds with this pack thanks to a minor errata.
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May 15, 2015 19:41
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I've been avoiding doing big starting characters because of the prevalence of decks loaded with bullet shredding cards that like to do first turn Kidnappings (seriously, the number of games where the opening salvo is Kidnapping, Sun in Your Eyes, dead stat stick have become table flippingly common). But I'm coming back around to the idea of starting someone with a bunch of big numbers. Is there a good way to deal with losing big characters early on? I think loading a deck with lots of cheap characters might work.
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May 26, 2015 00:43
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Also I made a chart for Miracles. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fcHX99uYoUcXru5Z4xYIYnALv2wveInJujeyk8Eu194/edit?usp=sharing
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May 26, 2015 01:42
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Jonas Albrecht posted:I've been avoiding doing big starting characters because of the prevalence of decks loaded with bullet shredding cards that like to do first turn Kidnappings (seriously, the number of games where the opening salvo is Kidnapping, Sun in Your Eyes, dead stat stick have become table flippingly common). But I'm coming back around to the idea of starting someone with a bunch of big numbers. Is there a good way to deal with losing big characters early on? I think loading a deck with lots of cheap characters might work. How big of a character are you talking about? Like Lillian Morgan big? I typically don't tend to run anything over 6 GR to start and always try to run a full 5 starting dudes. I've been experimenting with less and I just am not liking it. As for a first turn kidnapping, try to run a pair of shooters that can still get you some stud even if one is SIYE'ed and build decks that can draw something equally decent in your opening hand. PIstol Whip, or even something like a coachwhip will work since they'll almost definitely be looking to draw into a cheating high hand. Depending on your faction you might have some stuff you can do during a shootout with dudes in faction: Wendy is a great choice for Law Dogs to prevent you from getting destroyed by an early Kidnapping. You might also consider the new Flight of the Lepus as a way to prevent the kidnapping from succeeding. I think you might have to accept that the first round of the shootout will be a loss or a draw but that's what guys like Travis Moone are there for. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 06:48 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 06:43
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It was a big issue when I was running Wylie Jenks, and later then I tried to make Abram Blessed decks work.
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May 26, 2015 08:21
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http://www.miniaturemarket.com/review/product/list/id/44851/ Next pine box will debut two factions.
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May 27, 2015 12:40
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The Sioux or some other group of Native Americans, that's cool. They were my first guess as to the next faction. Based on my assumed breakdown of the next deluxe I would guess that we aren't going to see Spirits for them just yet. I can't imagine them not giving them spirits as that was a pretty big part of their previous faction's repertoire. The other guess for factions would be the flock since going by the name of the title I would guess there's a group A vs group B theme in the cards, so the Flock representing western religion vs the Indians would make sense. As would some type of army or pioneer faction.
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May 27, 2015 13:00
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So I jumped on the massdrop for this and got it yesterday. Used to play the CCG way back when and figured this was worth checking out. Anything I should know before leaping in, either changes or new things? It doesn't look like the OP has been updated since before the game first released. I'd also be teaching some people who aren't familiar with the ccg if anyone's got anything to add in that realm.
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May 27, 2015 20:20
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Hauki posted:So I jumped on the massdrop for this and got it yesterday. Used to play the CCG way back when and figured this was worth checking out. Anything I should know before leaping in, either changes or new things? It doesn't look like the OP has been updated since before the game first released. I'd also be teaching some people who aren't familiar with the ccg if anyone's got anything to add in that realm. use the prebuilt decks and follow the sample game with one other person who will indulge that first. it teaches all the things you can do, which helps because Doomtown is a game with lots of options at any given moment, and sometimes the right thing to do is nothing.
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May 27, 2015 20:41
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PaybackJack posted:The Sioux or some other group of Native Americans, that's cool. They were my first guess as to the next faction. Based on my assumed breakdown of the next deluxe I would guess that we aren't going to see Spirits for them just yet. I can't imagine them not giving them spirits as that was a pretty big part of their previous faction's repertoire. The other guess for factions would be the flock since going by the name of the title I would guess there's a group A vs group B theme in the cards, so the Flock representing western religion vs the Indians would make sense. As would some type of army or pioneer faction. To bring some idle speculation to the thread, another faction of the Ghost Creek pogs game was a group called 'The Wretched.' The the same ghost rock groundwater contamination that created Morgan's mutated cattle also badly poisoned an travling acting troupe with similar problems - skin necrosis, open lesions, green/gray skin coloration and milky eyes, ect. After being run out of town by a lynch mob, they ran into a tribe of natives that Morgan had displaced and the two managed to survive a harsh winter together. They had an odd split between abominations, shamans, and impoverished guerrillas. Or there's always Kang. China does have one of the earliest instances of an irresistable force paradox like the set title.
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May 28, 2015 00:58
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Deviant posted:use the prebuilt decks and follow the sample game with one other person who will indulge that first. it teaches all the things you can do, which helps because Doomtown is a game with lots of options at any given moment, and sometimes the right thing to do is nothing. Fair enough, thanks
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May 28, 2015 01:52
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