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Levitate posted:Also the dwarves look too much like handsome humans with beards (well, some of them anyways...I know they're supposed to be young but they didn't really look like what we think of as Middle Earth dwarves IMO) Having 13 mostly identical dwarves wouldn't have helped things, I can guarantee you. Honestly only having ~4 dwarves would have probably been ideal but the nerd rage would have been greater than all of the other changes combined.
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May 4, 2015 16:04
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Gorn Myson posted:Hobbit is one of those things where I really enjoyed it when I watched it, but have no interest in watching it again. I do think that Billy Connolly turning up riding a pig into battle is one of the cinematic highlights of my life though. I was watching the third movie, vaguely enjoying it but wondering if maybe I was too fixed on the book version to enjoy the film properly for what it was. Then Billy Connolly showed up on a pig and got really pissed that instead of fighting pansy elf ninnies he had to fight goblins (which is the most dwarf thing ever). The books are the books and the movies are the movies. I wish they had gone further. There was a rumor that the necromancer would resurrect smaug and used the zombie dragon in the fight, now that would have been glorious.
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May 4, 2015 18:55
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I love how the Sand Worms are actually in the book.
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May 4, 2015 19:27
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I'm surprised they didn't deck out Thorin in The Hobbit merchandise, swinging a giant two handed battle The Hobbit branded lunchbox as 'available in stores now' flashed up on the screen.
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May 4, 2015 20:02
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euphronius posted:I love how the Sand Worms are actually in the book. Sooner or later sand worms shows up in every major fantasy or sci-fi series.
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May 4, 2015 20:28
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Alhazred posted:Sooner or later sand worms shows up in every major fantasy or sci-fi series. the arc of the expanded universe is long, but it bends towards sand worms
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May 5, 2015 02:29
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"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert." -Bilbo, only mention of the worms in all of Tolkien's writing.
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May 5, 2015 03:22
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sunday at work posted:"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert." -Bilbo, only mention of the worms in all of Tolkien's writing. I always read those as wingless dragons, not sandworms.
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May 5, 2015 03:39
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He also talks about things that burrow deep underground. The worms were awesome, though it was a little weird that they disappeared completely without another mention...
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May 5, 2015 04:46
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SHISHKABOB posted:He also talks about things that burrow deep underground. The worms were awesome, though it was a little weird that they disappeared completely without another mention...
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May 5, 2015 04:48
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I figure the "were-" part of Were-worms implies some amount of man-ness. So they're like dragonmen or men who turn into dragons or whatever. Some weird-rear end monster that Hobbit Herodotus heard about from a drunk dwarf one day.
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May 5, 2015 06:11
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Bendigeidfran posted:I figure the "were-" part of Were-worms implies some amount of man-ness. So they're like dragonmen or men who turn into dragons or whatever. Some weird-rear end monster that Hobbit Herodotus heard about from a drunk dwarf one day. When I was younger and before I realized what "were-" meant as a prefix I just thought these were hairy wolf worms. Like a big hairy worm with the head of a wolf.
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May 5, 2015 08:51
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That's like how when I was a kid I thought "Super" literally meant "has a cape" E: also a cape was what conferred flying powers.
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May 5, 2015 12:46
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It wouldn't take that much to edit the Hobbit movies down into something a lot more reasonable. There are entire scenes that can go (The Radagast warg chase scene from the first movie for example) and others can have several minutes chopped out of their middles and no one would notice. There is an easy 30-45 minutes from each movie that if removed would make them a lot more enjoyable.
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May 5, 2015 13:23
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If we go by what Tolkien means in the Silmarillion the were-worms are most likely dragon kind. Now personally I imagine a sandworm in the desert of the Haradrim but I also love Dune.
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May 5, 2015 16:20
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Tolkien uses worm both ways so who knows. I like the way the movie used them a lot as a kind of counter to the Eagles. The good guys ride majestic eagles. The bad guys follow worms and come out of the ground like vermin. Neat.
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May 5, 2015 16:21
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I've been reading LotR again, and it seems like the breaching fire that Saruman uses at Helm's Deep is a cannon? Especially as it is fired at aragorn the second time it's used. So not a big bomb carried to the wall. Am i correct* in this? *As in, it's a commonly accepted interpretation.
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May 6, 2015 17:47
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The Belgian posted:I've been reading LotR again, and it seems like the breaching fire that Saruman uses at Helm's Deep is a cannon? Especially as it is fired at aragorn the second time it's used. So not a big bomb carried to the wall. I just read it and I think that's reasonable. In that part, it says that the archway above where Aragorn had been standing crumbled with the thunder and fire. As an aside, I really like the part where Aragorn is standing on the wall talking to the orcs mostly because of the way the uruk-hai talk as one. It's one of the scenes that I remember most vividly from my first reading of the story when I was like ten. And now I see how it fits perfectly with the ideas and stories that influenced Tolkien.
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May 6, 2015 17:59
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SHISHKABOB posted:
Yeah, that stood out while I was reading it. A lot of the book feels very different from when I last read it years ago and I'm paying much more attention to all the references and getting them now. I also noticed that the enemy is much more dehumanized in the movies compared to the books? No wild hilmen fight along with the uruk hai, the uruk hai don't really talk at Helm's deep, I think? I think the only human sevants of the enemy in the movies are the Harad men and teir entire bodies are covered. (and wormtongue)
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May 7, 2015 10:08
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The films lose out on a lot of the thematic subtlety - this is unavoidable. That said, I think the aesthetic of the films was pretty good and it did capture most of the overarching stuff, so eyh
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May 7, 2015 13:22
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V. Illych L. posted:The films lose out on a lot of the thematic subtlety - this is unavoidable. That said, I think the aesthetic of the films was pretty good and it did capture most of the overarching stuff, so eyh Oh, I didn't mean the movies were bad. The last few times I read lotR in its entirety I was quite young and it was around the same time the movies came out. I didn't notice all this stuff then so I guess back then the movies were definitely influencing my image of what I read and I was too young to notice all the thematic stuff. Plus having read the Silm a few times sinc ethen definitely influences my reading now.
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May 7, 2015 13:32
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The Belgian posted:
In the extended edition of TT they have a whole scene where they kill a dude who's just working for Sauron and isn't an orc. They don't actually show up in battle until Return of the King though.
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May 7, 2015 13:47
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computer parts posted:In the extended edition of TT they have a whole scene where they kill a dude who's just working for Sauron and isn't an orc. They don't actually show up in battle until Return of the King though. Yeah they also have that scene where some people swear allegiance to Saruman but I don't think you ever see them fighting. I should remember who those guys are supposed to be...not the wild men I don't think? Maybe I'm wrong The Belgian posted:Oh, I didn't mean the movies were bad. The last few times I read lotR in its entirety I was quite young and it was around the same time the movies came out. I didn't notice all this stuff then so I guess back then the movies were definitely influencing my image of what I read and I was too young to notice all the thematic stuff. Plus having read the Silm a few times sinc ethen definitely influences my reading now. The worst thing about the movies to me is how they've definitely influenced some of the ways I remember the details of the story. Just easier to remember things visually and occasionally when I re-read I'm surprised by something that I remembered differently.
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May 7, 2015 14:23
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Levitate posted:Yeah they also have that scene where some people swear allegiance to Saruman but I don't think you ever see them fighting. I should remember who those guys are supposed to be...not the wild men I don't think? Maybe I'm wrong those guys are def. the hillmen who fight for him in the book
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May 7, 2015 16:03
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I imagine you mean the Dunlendings as opposed to like, the wild hill-cave-neanderthal dudes who give Theoden a shortcut.
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May 8, 2015 00:52
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The pukelmen.
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May 8, 2015 00:58
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Revisiting Silmarillion-chat from a few days ago, I've actually always thought the story of Numenor would make a good movie. Especially if you got a really charismatic actor to play Sauron. Lots of great political drama between him, the king and Elendil, tense moments as the kingdom gradually falls apart, huge action set-pieces as the Numenoreans assault first Mordor, then later the lands of the Valar. And of course the huge wave that destroys the island, followed by the requisite happy ending with the founding of the kingdoms in exile. If you wanted to tie it in to the LOTR movies, you could even frame it with Aragorn telling the tale to his son. Who wouldn't want to watch that?
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May 8, 2015 03:23
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euphronius posted:The pukelmen. That's what they called the statues. The dudes were the Drúedain.
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May 8, 2015 05:55
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Nessus posted:I imagine you mean the Dunlendings as opposed to like, the wild hill-cave-neanderthal dudes who give Theoden a shortcut. Yes. I knew they were different groups, just couldn't remember what they were called
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May 8, 2015 13:42
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Nessus posted:I imagine you mean the Dunlendings as opposed to like, the wild hill-cave-neanderthal dudes who give Theoden a shortcut. I must admit I didn't like that part of RotK (the book I mean). It felt like the cave-men were one bad joke away from morphing into fantasy Jar-Jar Binks. I guess it says something when the most troubling portrayal of minorities come from allies of the protagonists, but I'm not sure what that something is. 
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May 8, 2015 15:40
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Jar Jar and the gungans are a great comparison to the pukelmen.
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May 8, 2015 17:44
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Were the vala mentionted in Rings/Hobbit? i ask in the context of the Sauron wiki article some guy mentions had a theory that Sauron was a vala before the Simarillion was published.
Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 06:03 on May 9, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 05:57
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webmeister posted:Revisiting Silmarillion-chat from a few days ago, I've actually always thought the story of Numenor would make a good movie. Especially if you got a really charismatic actor to play Sauron. Lots of great political drama between him, the king and Elendil, tense moments as the kingdom gradually falls apart, huge action set-pieces as the Numenoreans assault first Mordor, then later the lands of the Valar. And of course the huge wave that destroys the island, followed by the requisite happy ending with the founding of the kingdoms in exile. Get Michael Fassbender in here.
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May 9, 2015 07:30
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Baron Porkface posted:Were the vala mentionted in Rings/Hobbit? i ask in the context of the Sauron wiki article some guy mentions had a theory that Sauron was a vala before the Simarillion was published. I think they come up in the appendices, but they're not dealt with in detail.
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May 9, 2015 09:25
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Baron Porkface posted:Were the vala mentionted in Rings/Hobbit? i ask in the context of the Sauron wiki article some guy mentions had a theory that Sauron was a vala before the Simarillion was published. The early drafts of the Silmarillion were written way before LOTR and Sauron was never on the same level as the valar. I think he first shows up as a vampyre lord in the third?? version of Beren and luthien.
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May 10, 2015 13:31
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Baron Porkface posted:Were the vala mentionted in Rings/Hobbit? i ask in the context of the Sauron wiki article some guy mentions had a theory that Sauron was a vala before the Simarillion was published.
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May 10, 2015 18:40
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Galadriel could not wear her ring when Sauron had the One. Also the distinction between valar and maiar was distinct. Originally they all were the children of the valar, like how the Greek pantheon has generations. Jrrt moved away from that though.
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May 10, 2015 18:44
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At some point in the Silmarillion it mentions that Sauron was a Maiar of Aule who was lured away by Morgoth's fantasies.
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May 10, 2015 19:09
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HIJK posted:At some point in the Silmarillion it mentions that Sauron was a Maiar of Aule who was lured away by Morgoth's fantasies.
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May 10, 2015 20:10
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Saruman was also one of Aule's. That guy did not have a good track record.
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May 10, 2015 20:38
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