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Aren't Teslas and other electric cars really cheap in Norway too, because you get a ton of tax breaks on zero-emission vehicles?
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May 7, 2015 09:48
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Collateral Damage posted:Aren't Teslas and other electric cars really cheap in Norway too, because you get a ton of tax breaks on zero-emission vehicles? They're less expensive than in other countries (because they are exempt from the 150+% tax+registration fee), but they're not really cheap-cheap. It brings the price of a Tesla Model S down to around a BMW 5-series level (including tax and registration), so around 600K NOK or $80K. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 10:03 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 10:00
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Collateral Damage posted:Aren't Teslas and other electric cars really cheap in Norway too, because you get a ton of tax breaks on zero-emission vehicles? Yes, among the many incentives they are sold without sales tax, road tax, carbon tax etc etc...the taxes that make cars sold in Norway very expensive. Here's a comparison with the UK, which I think is fair as they will both have some transport cost. BMW 3 series, baseline: UK: £24,225 - $36,798 Norway: 346,700 NOK - $47,315 Tesla S70D with no options: UK: £55,380 - $84,124 Norway: 563,200 NOK - $76,831 Cash price for the S70D in the US, before tax incentives, is $75,000. You'll find much bigger differences between UK and Norway if you look at high emission piston engines and cheaper electrics.
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May 7, 2015 10:03
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Comparing the prices a P85D (not +) with 4wd it's about 950k SEK (~€100k) in Sweden versus about 630k NOK (~€75k) in Norway. Still an expensive car, but a €25k saving is nothing to scoff at.
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May 7, 2015 10:07
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Ola posted:The Tesla is turning into something of a hate object in Norway. Not too hard to figure out why. Among the many privileges electric cars get, the more controversial ones are access to the bus lanes and zero toll fees. While all electric cars get them, most electric cars come with some sort of drawback, range in particular. The Tesla doesn't, so it's seen as a way for rich people to buy express access to the city, like business priority at the airport. Pretty clear that the amount of electric cars in the bus lane is untenable: I'm confused. Are you saying that one of the lanes in that photo is a bus lane? I see a bus in the photo, but there's also a big truck farther downstream and the lane doesn't seem to be marked differently from the others...
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May 7, 2015 14:28
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The bus lane turns into an exit lane temporarily at the exit sign in the image. Bus lanes are otherwise marked at entries and with a different lane separation stripe.
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May 7, 2015 14:55
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Yup. The "bus lane ends" sign is on the red bridge, the truck is not quite there yet but that's not uncommon during rush hour. I think bus lanes should be physically separate from the main road so they didn't have to bother with exit traffic etc. Give them their own lanes completely so buses are as quick as trains. Make the buses electric, able to run on battery and overhead wires. They can share the road with cars in one place on battery power, zoom along like a train on overhead wires in another place. Bam, fast, efficient, adaptable and environmentally friendly mass transit.
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May 7, 2015 15:05
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KozmoNaut posted:They're less expensive than in other countries (because they are exempt from the 150+% tax+registration fee), but they're not really cheap-cheap. It brings the price of a Tesla Model S down to around a BMW 5-series level (including tax and registration), so around 600K NOK or $80K. Well, there's also the fact that Tesla is working on a 200 mile range car to sell four roughly the price of the Leaf. On the other hand, once gasoline starts going out of style, letting electric cars drive in bus lanes may no longer be feasible.
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May 8, 2015 01:07
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As a Norwegian Tesla driver i concur that being allowed in the bus lane is a bit excessive, especially in rush hour traffic. I get mostly positive feedback on my car, a lot of people feel like they are a real Sherlock Holmes when they tell me that they "see trough me and know i dont care about the evironment" i then tell them that "gently caress yeah, i bought the fastest car i could afford, combined with free parking, no tolls and no road tax, the zero emmision stuff is just a bonus" But then i try to tell them that: that is kinda why the norwegian EV-programme works, we have a gently caress ton of EVs on the road compared to other european nations. And since the goverment has decided that they do want more zero emission cars, that has to be percieved as a good thing, right? But on the other side, i do actually try to reduce my carbon footprint. i pay a small premium on my electrical bill that is supposed to mean i only get power from renewable energy sources. We recycle what we can, we compost and most importantly, even at their young age we try to teach the boys that you dont need to be driven everywhere. We normally walk them to kindergarten, walk them to kiddy-soccer and walk to the shops if we are not buying in bulk. We are even planning to replace the wifes volvo with a Nissan Leaf, Evs work for us. I am not sure that EVs are the future, but untill we have a future solution (fuel cell,mandated public transport, that weird hyperthing that elon musk is talking about) i think that giving reasonably incentives to buying EVs are a good way to get more of them on the road. If my top spec P85D cost the same as a comparable alternative (M5 estate, Panamera) i would not even consider it. And since i have a habit of overspending on silly cars, i would probably be driving a 530D at the moment. (not really at this moment, currently i am sitting in my underpants trying to manage twin 4 yearolds with twin upset tummies) Regarding buses and other mass transit solutions, for norways part, or atleast the part that i work in the bus industry. Nothing will really change the next 10-15 years. The current buses in Bergen are supposed to run until 2020. They are currently a mix of Trolley buses (electrical) LPG-powered buses and normal diesel buses. They have rather nasty emmisions, especially our dramaticly under powered bendy buses (they put a the same engine in the bendy buses as they have in the normal length buses, a 260hp tdi engine) The buses being considered for the next contract (2019-2027) are most likely going to be lpg and diesel driven aswell, i hope we get more buses with electrical propulsion powered by an onboard generator, we have a few being put into service shortly after a quick makeover, when it was discovered that a 26m 2wd bus was useless on wet cobbles, snow and any incline what so ever. this was not ment to be written as a rant, it just happend. i am overtired, i have cranky sick kids and radiation treatment tomorrow. i am also in nicotine withdrawal
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May 8, 2015 02:41
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Get rid of the bus lanes, no more worries over favouring electric car owners.
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May 8, 2015 15:29
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So you are fine favoring bus owners! Is telsa going to buy complete car bodies from someone for the cheap 200 range EV? I don't see how they have any economy of scale for that shiz.
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May 8, 2015 16:53
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Elephanthead posted:So you are fine favoring bus owners! It might not actually be cheap or have a 200 range. We'll see in the next 3-5 years it takes to actually get near production
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May 8, 2015 16:57
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Should i take the Kia Soul EV seriously? I wanted a nissan leaf for ages but actively dislike every nissan ever made but it, so i'd rather give my money to the dudes that made that funny hamster commercial.
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May 8, 2015 17:03
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Should i take the Kia Soul EV seriously? I wanted a nissan leaf for ages but actively dislike every nissan ever made but it, so i'd rather give my money to the dudes that made that funny hamster commercial. Oh certainly. 27 kWh battery, perhaps the best non-Tesla range and CHAdeMO quick DC charging.
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May 8, 2015 17:30
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This i8 just appeared in my parking garage, and my god what a stunning vehicle - it would be a real hard choice between that and a P85D (you know, if I wasn't broke). I couldn't see a plug anywhere, so either this guy just charges at work or does not give a gently caress and just drives it - i'm guessing the latter because if you can drop the $140k I guess who cares, it still gets good mileage without charging as far as I know. 
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May 8, 2015 17:35
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Should i take the Kia Soul EV seriously? I wanted a nissan leaf for ages but actively dislike every nissan ever made but it, so i'd rather give my money to the dudes that made that funny hamster commercial. Do take it seriously. When I bought my Leaf, the decision between the Leaf and the Kia Soul was the hardest. The Leaf won out due to two factors; it has a significantly larger trunk, and it's a second generation vehicle (so I anticipate less trouble with it). The Soul's top trim model available here has actively ventilated leather seats, which might have tipped my decision the other way if the climate here was any hotter (Trondheim, Norway). Then again, the BMW i3 has an optional range extender gas motor that depending on your local regulations may or may not be mounted without disqualifying the vehicle from governmental EV incentives and it reportedly goes real well (it's rear-engine RWD as opposed to pretty much every other EV it competes with).
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May 8, 2015 17:45
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Ola posted:Oh certainly. 27 kWh battery, perhaps the best non-Tesla range and CHAdeMO quick DC charging. and it also has a very practical shape and is very roomy. They are nice cars with gas engines and by all accounts even better as an ev
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May 8, 2015 17:46
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pun pundit posted:
Government incentives? South florida hasnt even mastered "Steady delivery of electricity all of the time" yet. I just want a short range commuter so i can keep my oil burners for fun driving. edit: wow its almost 30 grand, thats still very very expensive. I thought it would be leaf money.
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May 8, 2015 17:56
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MattD1zzl3 posted:
You should probably lease it.
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May 8, 2015 18:29
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Voltage posted:This i8 just appeared in my parking garage, and my god what a stunning vehicle - it would be a real hard choice between that and a P85D (you know, if I wasn't broke). I couldn't see a plug anywhere, so either this guy just charges at work or does not give a gently caress and just drives it - i'm guessing the latter because if you can drop the $140k I guess who cares, it still gets good mileage without charging as far as I know. On gas-only mode, it really isn't that great:  And if Clarkson is to be believed (yes, take it with an i8-sized grain of salt) the real-world can be even worse. I would say the "don't give a gently caress" is more likely, since on the sample size of the one i8 I got to drive for a bit, it clearly hadn't seen a charge station for a long time. Still moves like hell, though.
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May 8, 2015 18:36
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IOwnCalculus posted:On gas-only mode, it really isn't that great: Same with all plugin hybrids it seems. Go all electric or go home I say. Or stay home. Whichever makes the sentence work.
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May 8, 2015 19:37
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isnt ~27mpg where pretty much all the "fun but small engined" cars end up? I think thats about where an original miata is, as is the new miata that comes out next year. Both the BMW 3 and 5 series, A WRX gets about 27 if you stick to the highway. Cars with bad gearing or hyperdiesel engines have this idea in our head that all cars need 40MPG or its a pig. There is always some nice round number people pick as "Good" or "bad" mpg and its really ramped into space over the last 10 years. (even though gas remains dirt cheap in the US) It used to be ~15. 14 was bad MPG, 16 was good. Than it was 20. 19mpg was bad, 21 was good. Now its 40. 39 could be better, 41 is acceptable. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 22:56
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Mange Mite posted:This is similar to my friend's experience as well. The switchgear is really cheap and crappy and things like the door cards and doors are poorly designed compared to even just regular cars, leta lone other $100k cars. Also his had recurring problems with the giant screen crashing or glitching out.
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May 9, 2015 00:02
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Itzena posted:Obligatory reminder that most of the Model S interior is pretty much taken straight out of the Merc E-Class with the three-pointed star filed off. Except the freaking sun visors, they are straight up Yugo
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May 9, 2015 00:05
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fjelltorsk posted:Except the freaking sun visors, they are straight up Yugo And the door cards, and many of the controls and switchgear.
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May 9, 2015 00:14
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MattD1zzl3 posted:isnt ~27mpg where pretty much all the "fun but small engined" cars end up? I'd still drive the i8 at 28MPG, but my point was more that it's a mileage number that can be hit on a fun car without resorting to $100k worth of batteries and motors. It's clearly meant to be a halo car for hybrids, and I think it'll do a fine job of at least getting the attention of people who just didn't care about hybrids before.
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May 9, 2015 00:36
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IOwnCalculus posted:I'd still drive the i8 at 28MPG, but my point was more that it's a mileage number that can be hit on a fun car without resorting to $100k worth of batteries and motors. It's clearly meant to be a halo car for hybrids, and I think it'll do a fine job of at least getting the attention of people who just didn't care about hybrids before. Picking up my P85D on Monday, something tells me my streak of 5 years of ticketless Tesla driving might be tested. 
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May 9, 2015 02:50
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eeenmachine posted:Picking up my P85D on Monday, something tells me my streak of 5 years of ticketless Tesla driving might be tested. If you need help I was just in the South Miami Tesla dealer, drooling.
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May 9, 2015 02:56
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eeenmachine posted:Picking up my P85D on Monday, something tells me my streak of 5 years of ticketless Tesla driving might be tested. I got 4 tickets the first 10 days of owning mine. I was used to a big loud G500 where you could sort of tell the speed by sound and vibration. keeping a P85D @60km/h on open mountain roads is hard i tell ya. If i had gotten points from the last ticket i would have no slack to live on, next offense would mean a suspension. I for the first time had to use the "oh, you look familiar, dident we work that nasty 3 car mva in the tunell two years ago, nasty business that was. and my wife wore a low cut top." i drive with the cruise control now. and btw, get a gooseneck funnel to fill wiper fluid, thank me later
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May 9, 2015 11:55
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fjelltorsk posted:I got 4 tickets the first 10 days of owning mine. I was used to a big loud G500 where you could sort of tell the speed by sound and vibration. keeping a P85D @60km/h on open mountain roads is hard i tell ya. I've been lucky enough to never have to refill fluid on either my Roadster or Model S. Helps when you live in San Diego where it never rains (and get your car washed frequently). Also I still can't help but drive like an rear end in a top hat every time I take the Roadster out but apparently it has stealth technology because it seems invisible to cops.
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May 9, 2015 14:57
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eeenmachine posted:I've been lucky enough to never have to refill fluid on either my Roadster or Model S. drat man, can I ask what you do for a living? These are all dream cars for me. :/
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May 9, 2015 16:22
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Michael Scott posted:drat man, can I ask what you do for a living? These are all dream cars for me. :/ I make lovely mobile freemium games. Business was especially good around 2011/2012.
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May 9, 2015 17:02
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Like on your own? I always thought that would be a cool thing to get into, do you program them yourself or do you like hire programmers/artists/etc off the internet and tell them what you want?
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May 9, 2015 17:58
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eeenmachine posted:Picking up my P85D on Monday, something tells me my streak of 5 years of ticketless Tesla driving might be tested. Please post pics of the frunk I love frunk
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May 9, 2015 18:12
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angryhampster posted:Please post pics of the frunk Unfortunately I think I'm trading down in frunk space since my current S has no motor in the front. I'm skipping the rear child jumper seats this time since I think I'll use the extra space more than I'll need the seats. Will also be interesting to see if I notice the reduction in range from my standard 85kw. Stefan Prodan posted:Like on your own? I always thought that would be a cool thing to get into, do you program them yourself or do you like hire programmers/artists/etc off the internet and tell them what you want? Just my brother and I and a buddy from school we hired. Having to be a boss man would take all the fun out of it!
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May 9, 2015 18:38
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It seems like a lot of people are trading in their teslas for the awd teslas, the dealers are full of used ones now
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May 9, 2015 18:42
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Mange Mite posted:It seems like a lot of people are trading in their teslas for the awd teslas, the dealers are full of used ones now There are some super CPO deals right now if someone was in the market for a Tesla and doesn't need the absolute newest thing.
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May 9, 2015 18:56
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No tax credit on a used one though right? I think the Tesla CPO cars are overpriced, a new 70 is 65k after state/federal incentives, they have used 60's for more than that. Not considering options, but the 70 has a bunch of stuff standard now anyway.
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May 9, 2015 20:27
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I don't know of a better thread for this, but is Sunfire/Audi's Blue Crude real? http://www.sciencealert.com/audi-have-successfully-made-diesel-fuel-from-air-and-water I just find it hard to believe that it is not either too good to be true, or too expensive to ever take off.
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May 10, 2015 16:49
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Crotch Fruit posted:I don't know of a better thread for this, but is Sunfire/Audi's Blue Crude real? I read something about the process of creating it, transporting it, and burning it being relatively in-efficient compared to pure electric but I was just skimming.
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May 10, 2015 16:55
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