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Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Geriatric Pirate posted:

Remember how you (or someone) said that a $100 minimum wage is completely different from a $15 minimum wage?

Well, 0.5 posts per day is completely different from 13 posts per day.

hey asdf32 here's a chance to earn some bonus points, how many percent larger is 13 from 0.5?

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Unseen
Dec 23, 2006
I'll drive the tanker
I think creating a 15$ an hour minimum wage in China would undoubtedly be better for the US than boosting minimum wage in the US.

Geriatric Pirate
Apr 25, 2008

by Nyc_Tattoo

Unseen posted:

I think creating a 15$ an hour minimum wage in China would undoubtedly be better for the US than boosting minimum wage in the US.

Yes because "betterness" should be measured by ARE JOBS IN ARE COUNTRY instead of how many things people can buy with the money they make from working

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Geriatric Pirate posted:

Yes because "betterness" should be measured by ARE JOBS IN ARE COUNTRY instead of how many things people can buy with the money they make from working

can you explain the idea minimum wage in terms of posts per hour

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich
it is your area of expertise

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007
it would be cool & fair to trade off with china for a few years so they could try out having a human development index that isnt represented in the form of a gallic shrug, and we could be the ones with suicide nets strung up outside our factories so that the underclasses stop clotting on the sidewalk

that sounds reasonable to me, a serious beltway economist

RBC
Nov 23, 2007

IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888
as you approach 10 posts per hour, your likelyhood of being a minimum wage worker declines logorithimaclly and exponetionally

archangelwar
Oct 28, 2004

Teaching Moments
13 posts a day? THIRTEEN POSTS A DAY?!?!?!?!

I've got to get the bread and milk!


I'VE GOT TO GET THE BREAD AND MILK!!!!!11!!!!11!!1

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007
its like this, you can make posts or you can make butter and

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich
if you hit 88 posts per hour you go back in time and fix all of your mistakes

archangelwar
Oct 28, 2004

Teaching Moments
How dare you spend $10 to post on a forum you like and THEN PROCEED TO POST ON SAID FORUM! I hope to G-D that you are only doing this from the library because HOW DARE YOU HAVE INTERNET ACCESS TOO!!!!

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

Geriatric Pirate posted:

Yes because "betterness" should be measured by ARE JOBS IN ARE COUNTRY instead of how many things people can buy with the money they make from working

Can't believe I'm listening to some reindeer-hide wrapped mummy and his gibbis ho make out to the refrain of "liberals are the real racists", but I am.

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007
i loving love to post

Gin and Juche
Apr 3, 2008

The Highest Judge of Paradise
Shiki Eiki
YAMAXANADU

Popular Thug Drink posted:

if you hit 88 posts per hour you go back in time and fix all of your mistakes

Once you hit 88 posts an hour you're gonna see some serious poo poo(posting).

Geriatric Pirate
Apr 25, 2008

by Nyc_Tattoo

paranoid randroid posted:

its like this, you can make posts or you can make butter and

Well I mean you could make 13 posts per day complaining about how unfair the world is, or you could go out and volunteer or work and pay taxes but :effort: it's easier to complain about the rich instead

Geriatric Pirate
Apr 25, 2008

by Nyc_Tattoo
I mean it's not like you'll ever make a difference. 19000 posts @ 1 minute per post, that's only 40 full working days spent posting. No charity could benefit from 40 days of volunteer work.

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007
youre really married to this angle of attack arent you

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

Geriatric Pirate posted:

Well I mean you could make 13 posts per day complaining about how unfair the world is, or you could go out and volunteer or work and pay taxes but :effort: it's easier to complain about the rich instead

Old man, you should relieve the burden on the Swamp Russia healthcare system by not demanding treatment for your chronic ED and organic brain damage.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

paranoid randroid posted:

youre really married to this angle of attack arent you

please don't say 'married' to geriatric pirate

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007
im going thru my post history like Oskar Schindler right now. this post here, "im gay", i could have fed an orphan with that time. "full communism ftw", that could have rehabilitated a homeless drug addict. how many more could i have saved.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Geriatric Pirate posted:

Well I mean you could make 13 posts per day complaining about how unfair the world is, or you could go out and volunteer or work and pay taxes but :effort: it's easier to complain about the rich instead

if complaining about the world is pointless then what about complaining about people who are complaining about the world

wateroverfire
Jul 3, 2010

Leroy Diplowski posted:

I've been thinking about minimum wage change to $15/ hr quite a lot because I own a small business with 4 employees who make from $9-$12/hr.

if the minimum wage went to $15 tomorrow we probably wouldn't go out of business, and we probably wouldn't lay anyone off. I hire the number of people I need to make the business work, not a number of people based on some arbitrary spending limit for labor. I don't have any superfluous employees because whether they are getting $8 or $15 if I'm paying someone I don't need then that's less money in my pocket.

If min wage did go to $15 then I would probably have to raise prices, but then so would my competition, so it would be pretty much a zero sum game for me. Since my customers are mostly very high earners, a min wage increase would be a (clumsy) method of wealth redistribution which I feel is a really good thing.

The only major concern I have is that the market will be slow to adjust and I find myself raising prices before a broad range of companies also raise prices thus changing consumer expectations. I don't think anyone is suggesting raising the min wage to $15 in one immediate step, however.

Whenever his discussion comes up I am always amused at the vitriol of the $14/ hr earners pissed off that the people they think they are better than will make the same as them. It reminds of the biblical parable of the workers' wages in matt 20:1-16. Jesus would have been for the $15 min wage.

I even had a discussion with an employee of mine who makes 11/hr and did not want the minimum wage to go to $15/hr because then he would be making the same as McDonald's employees. I was struck by the irony that he found making the same wage as a McDonald's employee more objectionable than I found writing bigger paychecks each week. When bought this up he asked if I would pay him $19/hr if min wage went to $15. At first I was like " lol no" but then I thought about it. If I can charge just a few % more for my products based on the increased demand from a rather large consumer base suddenly being able to afford more than just the bare nessecities to live them then I could pay him $19/hr. It might take a while because these causes and effects are always really elastic, but I think it would be a net win for my employees and I. Also, I've lost a couple of my best employees to jobs that paid more over the past year. If the min wage is $15 then employers are on a level playing field and low skilled workers won't be bouncing around From job to job chasing an extra $1 an hr. This will save money and time training etc.

The only real losers will be the high volume low margin retailers but they are already exploiting workers up their supply chain anyhow, and we are going need to wean our economy off of cheap consumer goods produced by our de facto colonies at some point.

I'm am not an economist so I might have made some really absurd conclusions, but I have started two small businesses and managed several, so that's how I see it.

That sounds pretty reasonable. There are effects to consider, though, in addition to the income effect from paying people more. What happens when the costs at each layer of the supply chain leading up to you also go up to accomodate the wage hike? Your suppliers have suppliers have suppliers, etc, and all of them are going to feel a wage floor that raises labor costs for like 45% of workers. You will probably find that all sorts of things from materials to transport cost more once everything shakes out, and you may find that as many other businesses pass compounded costs along people don't have as much extra money to drive extra business to you.

Geriatric Pirate
Apr 25, 2008

by Nyc_Tattoo

paranoid randroid posted:

im going thru my post history like Oskar Schindler right now. this post here, "im gay", i could have fed an orphan with that time. "full communism ftw", that could have rehabilitated a homeless drug addict. how many more could i have saved.

You're right, the only thing that can ever make a difference is rich people paying more taxes and a higher minimum wage


Effectronica posted:

I know it takes you ten minutes to write a sentence, but I spend probably half an hour a day posting, maybe an hour if I'm closely following a thread.
You must really like this thread!

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

I have done ~ 7 hours of volunteer work this week may I post

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich
when i post on something awful i regard that as volunteering with the mentally challenged

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

euphronius posted:

I have done ~ 7 hours of volunteer work this week may I post

i'm sorry you haven't ground yourself into dust to elevate the poor, you may never post again

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

wateroverfire posted:

That sounds pretty reasonable. There are effects to consider, though, in addition to the income effect from paying people more. What happens when the costs at each layer of the supply chain leading up to you also go up to accomodate the wage hike? Your suppliers have suppliers have suppliers, etc, and all of them are going to feel a wage floor that raises labor costs for like 45% of workers. You will probably find that all sorts of things from materials to transport cost more once everything shakes out, and you may find that as many other businesses pass compounded costs along people don't have as much extra money to drive extra business to you.

please stop posting and wait in line until the other, funnier, more idiotic guy goes away

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown
Glad to see that after a dozen pages this thread is still primarily arguing about post counts

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

Geriatric Pirate posted:

You're right, the only thing that can ever make a difference is rich people paying more taxes and a higher minimum wage

You must really like this thread!

Well, destroying inferior Russian knockoffs would help a LOT, and that's where I do some quality posting as I raise money for the mercenary army necessary to complete the job.

LunarShadow
Aug 15, 2013


Not to mention, not all min wage jobs are physical. Here I am posting on my phone from my min wage job on my lunch break. I am a substitute teacher.

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007

Geriatric Pirate posted:

You're right, the only thing that can ever make a difference is rich people paying more taxes and a higher minimum wage

im not really here to make a difference AS SUCH i just like making really bad posts that have a certain relevance to current events and couldnt care less about furthering the discourse or whatever it is that people who post a bunch int eh Right Wing MEdia thread et al are always wittering on about

Geriatric Pirate
Apr 25, 2008

by Nyc_Tattoo

LunarShadow posted:

Not to mention, not all min wage jobs are physical. Here I am posting on my phone from my min wage job on my lunch break. I am a substitute teacher.

Yeah but you're posting on your phone during a lunch break not posting on your computer all the time. Also, less than 5% of workers in the US make minimum wage, so I'm going to venture a guess that most of them probably do some sort of physical job, but I could be wrong about that.

RBC
Nov 23, 2007

IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888
man, you must be rich as gently caress to be making all these posts in this thread. how do i get a piece of that

wateroverfire
Jul 3, 2010
Guys I'm not one to ruin the fun but might we consider that maybe we have gone too far? Trolling should be preserved as a seperate and exotic practice reserved for select occasions, not appropriated by the majority and clumsily flaunted at every concievable opportunity without any regard for its artistic context or cultural significance.

Just something we might consider.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

RBC posted:

man, you must be rich as gently caress to be making all these posts in this thread. how do i get a piece of that

this posting spree is subsidized by the ethnically homogenous scandinavian welfare state, so you're out of luck pal

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

Leroy Diplowski posted:

I've been thinking about minimum wage change to $15/ hr quite a lot because I own a small business with 4 employees who make from $9-$12/hr.

if the minimum wage went to $15 tomorrow we probably wouldn't go out of business, and we probably wouldn't lay anyone off. I hire the number of people I need to make the business work, not a number of people based on some arbitrary spending limit for labor. I don't have any superfluous employees because whether they are getting $8 or $15 if I'm paying someone I don't need then that's less money in my pocket.

If min wage did go to $15 then I would probably have to raise prices, but then so would my competition, so it would be pretty much a zero sum game for me. Since my customers are mostly very high earners, a min wage increase would be a (clumsy) method of wealth redistribution which I feel is a really good thing.

The only major concern I have is that the market will be slow to adjust and I find myself raising prices before a broad range of companies also raise prices thus changing consumer expectations. I don't think anyone is suggesting raising the min wage to $15 in one immediate step, however.

Whenever his discussion comes up I am always amused at the vitriol of the $14/ hr earners pissed off that the people they think they are better than will make the same as them. It reminds of the biblical parable of the workers' wages in matt 20:1-16. Jesus would have been for the $15 min wage.

I even had a discussion with an employee of mine who makes 11/hr and did not want the minimum wage to go to $15/hr because then he would be making the same as McDonald's employees. I was struck by the irony that he found making the same wage as a McDonald's employee more objectionable than I found writing bigger paychecks each week. When bought this up he asked if I would pay him $19/hr if min wage went to $15. At first I was like " lol no" but then I thought about it. If I can charge just a few % more for my products based on the increased demand from a rather large consumer base suddenly being able to afford more than just the bare nessecities to live them then I could pay him $19/hr. It might take a while because these causes and effects are always really elastic, but I think it would be a net win for my employees and I. Also, I've lost a couple of my best employees to jobs that paid more over the past year. If the min wage is $15 then employers are on a level playing field and low skilled workers won't be bouncing around From job to job chasing an extra $1 an hr. This will save money and time training etc.

The only real losers will be the high volume low margin retailers but they are already exploiting workers up their supply chain anyhow, and we are going need to wean our economy off of cheap consumer goods produced by our de facto colonies at some point.

I'm am not an economist so I might have made some really absurd conclusions, but I have started two small businesses and managed several, so that's how I see it.

Thanks for the great post. The fact that one of your employees was against a loving $4.00 pay raise because it meant his perceived inferiors might also end up on the same level as him is loving terrifying. What is wrong with mankind?


Also good job Geriatric Pirate, you lost an argument to Effectronica and PTG.

LunarShadow
Aug 15, 2013


Geriatric Pirate posted:

Yeah but you're posting on your phone during a lunch break not posting on your computer all the time. Also, less than 5% of workers in the US make minimum wage, so I'm going to venture a guess that most of them probably do some sort of physical job, but I could be wrong about that.

Missing my point. Was meant to show that you don't have to be on your comp all day to ppst a whopping 13 posts a day. I used to manage that on my bus ride home.Basically I am saying you are retarded for bringing up post counts and the like. Cause apperantly folks can't multitask.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥
Better idea; instead of pointing out how many posts Effectronica makes, point out how terrible they all are. It's not like you have to resort to some mastermind tactics to make fun of them and there is surely no lack of material.

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007

wateroverfire posted:

Guys I'm not one to ruin the fun but might we consider that maybe we have gone too far? Trolling should be preserved as a seperate and exotic practice reserved for select occasions, not appropriated by the majority and clumsily flaunted at every concievable opportunity without any regard for its artistic context or cultural significance.

Just something we might consider.

dogg the fed is basically printing shitposts just to keep us from sliding into a deflationary spiral so if yr trying to conserve trolling yr basically falling behind the freaking curve

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boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich
this thread is evidence that i for one am feeling the pinch of, heh, historically low interest rates

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