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Popular Thug Drink posted:its been difficult for me to keep my protein intake high ever since the butcher stopped selling sausages in long strings which i could just grasp in my mouth while bolting for the door well in taht particular example id go with hiding full ham hocks behind your back and edging towards the door while whistling Strolling Through the Park
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May 8, 2015 21:41
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Undocumented immigrants often do file taxes, they just file them under a fraudulent social security number. Black/Grey market workers might file to collect subsidies or to provide a plausible cover for illegal activities. I am excited to hear how you think this is relevant to the discussion at hand.
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May 8, 2015 21:45
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JeffersonClay posted:Undocumented immigrants often do file taxes, they just file them under a fraudulent social security number. Black/Grey market workers might file to collect subsidies or to provide a plausible cover for illegal activities. You're the guy saying that increasing the EITC would be better than raising the minimum wage, and using that as supporting evidence. Your argument for why the EITC would affect people paid illegally is that you are sure they commit Social Security fraud and tax fraud on a large scale, which we should in turn enable.
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May 8, 2015 21:47
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You misunderstand. The EITC won't help undocumented immigrants or underground workers. The EITC could boost the incomes of poor workers without causing price inflation because the money comes from the government rather than businesses. It has the same benefits(except for soak the rich schadenfreude), and fewer negatives.
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May 8, 2015 21:57
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Popular Thug Drink posted:its been difficult for me to keep my protein intake high ever since the butcher stopped selling sausages in long strings which i could just grasp in my mouth while bolting for the door
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May 8, 2015 22:01
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lol he thinks 13 posts a day is hard core, naive child.
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May 8, 2015 22:11
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LorrdErnie posted:I know several people whose method for stealing from grocery stores is filling a cart or reusable bags and walking out the door. Theft from grocery stores should be impossible though. By that I mean with all the loving money we pay to farmers all non-processed foods should be free because why the gently caress are people going hungry in this loving country for any reason other than right wing assholes wanting poor people's lives to be more miserable than they already are.
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May 8, 2015 22:28
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A Winner is Jew posted:Theft from grocery stores should be impossible though. Poor people's lives being miserable is a by product of the systems by which right wing assholes get and stay rich. In order to protect those systems from pushback due to them making people's lives miserable, we have to normalize the misery of poor people. It should be made to appear acceptable or even desirable, so that it will not be an impetus for resistance. Right wing assholes generally don't want anyone to be miserable, they just don't care if people are miserable.
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May 8, 2015 22:36
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VideoTapir posted:Poor people's lives being miserable is a by product of the systems by which right wing assholes get and stay rich. In order to protect those systems from pushback due to them making people's lives miserable, we have to normalize the misery of poor people. It should be made to appear acceptable or even desirable, so that it will not be an impetus for resistance. Right wing assholes generally don't want anyone to be miserable, they just don't care if people are miserable. Is it really only right wing? Did all the left wing richies get that way through love and kindness? I know the answer, I just think it's funny how myopic you people are.
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May 8, 2015 22:51
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A Winner is Jew posted:Theft from grocery stores should be impossible though.
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May 8, 2015 22:52
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spacetoaster posted:Is it really only right wing? Did all the left wing richies get that way through love and kindness? I know that you're trolling but it's cute how unintentionally right you are. No one gets rich in capitalism without oppressing the working class, even ~liberal saviors~ like warren buffet.
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May 8, 2015 22:55
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spacetoaster posted:Is it really only right wing? Did all the left wing richies get that way through love and kindness? What do you mean you people!? 
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May 8, 2015 22:56
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spacetoaster posted:Is it really only right wing? Did all the left wing richies get that way through love and kindness? you people
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May 8, 2015 22:58
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Impermanent posted:I know that you're trolling but it's cute how unintentionally right you are. No one gets rich in capitalism without oppressing the working class, even ~liberal saviors~ like warren buffet. James Sinegal would like a word with you. But yes, the rich in this country regardless of their political affiliation are only rich because it's easy to gently caress over desperate people that will work for poo poo wages which is why things like a living wage, or at the very least a minimum wage that's actually tied to inflation is a good thing.
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May 8, 2015 23:09
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spacetoaster posted:Is it really only right wing? Did all the left wing richies get that way through love and kindness? Not all of them, but I didn't suggest that they did. The subject was right wingers. A rich person who got rich via exploitative labor either directly or indirectly and who does not behave in a way consistent with what I said just isn't defending their gravy train.
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May 8, 2015 23:09
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Venom Snake posted:you people Please don't intellectual loving child watermelon gently caress shame.
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May 8, 2015 23:17
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President Kucinich posted:Please don't intellectual loving child watermelon gently caress shame. Wait he's loving child watermelons this is an all new revelation!
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May 8, 2015 23:18
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President Kucinich posted:Please don't intellectual loving child watermelon gently caress shame. loving watermelons should be a pursuit open to all workers. Even I; an intellectual loving child, can see this truth.
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May 8, 2015 23:19
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Impermanent posted:I know that you're trolling but it's cute how unintentionally right you are. No one gets rich in capitalism without oppressing the working class, even ~liberal saviors~ like warren buffet. Define "rich".
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May 8, 2015 23:23
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LorrdErnie posted:Yeah it would definitely be nice if they weren't risking prison to eat. Your reasoning is why I have literally 0 moral issue with it. They're not going to prison. Also if they go to jail they get food I don't see the problem geez dude get a grip.
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May 8, 2015 23:29
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JeffersonClay posted:You misunderstand. The EITC won't help undocumented immigrants or underground workers. The EITC could boost the incomes of poor workers without causing price inflation because the money comes from the government rather than businesses. It has the same benefits(except for soak the rich schadenfreude), and fewer negatives. Ultimately the problem with the EITC is it is tied to the tax code, and that makes it really a issue for most poor people who live week. An emphasis on a minimum wage would do more for working people by giving them the ability to spend on a reliable basis. Also by being tied to the budget the EITC is going to be an issue in a way a minimum wage isn't. Also it could be argued that the EITC would still likely lead to price increases because the government will likely have to increase taxes to pay for it or if it deficits spends it has to increase the money supply. Ultimately, I don't think it is necessarily that big of a deal though if only because we do have some systems in place to account for increasing prices.
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May 8, 2015 23:30
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RavenKrows posted:They're not going to prison. Also if they go to jail they get food I don't see the problem geez dude get a grip. Yeah that's actually mostly true. I was misremembering the petty larceny cutoff in my state. They can go to prison for a short while on a second offense but they probably won't. Thanks for that it's nice to know the world's not quite as poo poo as I thought it was.
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May 8, 2015 23:38
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Ardennes posted:Ultimately the problem with the EITC is it is tied to the tax code, and that makes it really a issue for most poor people who live week. An emphasis on a minimum wage would do more for working people by giving them the ability to spend on a reliable basis. Also by being tied to the budget the EITC is going to be an issue in a way a minimum wage isn't. Porque no los dos?
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May 8, 2015 23:41
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JeffersonClay posted:How you can pay for food without working: You have to eventually work for tanf and you must have worked in the past to get ssdi.
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May 8, 2015 23:47
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I mean you also have to have kids to get Tanf.
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May 8, 2015 23:48
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Effectronica posted:Undocumented immigrants and people in black/gray-market employment file income tax returns? Some do, actually. But yeah generally the law is not going to be able to protect people living outside of it. Fixing that is going to require completely different policies.
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May 8, 2015 23:54
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Of course, doing so would require acknowledging that such people both need and deserve help, which a lot of people seem to have a serious problem with.
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May 8, 2015 23:57
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VitalSigns posted:How are you this ignorant about mathematics and simultaneously this smug. Without knowing the underlying distribution, there's no way to know whether the deviation from linearity is great enough to make any difference, and you certainly can't just assume that it's the same effect as paying everyone $100/hr. Since, you know, to go to $100/hr you have to add $85 to everyone who was already making $15, and that $85 is almost six times what they were already being paid. I love that you're calling me ignorant for not claiming to be ignorant about wage distribution and also didn't understand the math (you thought I was saying wage distribution wasn't liner - I wasn't. Linear wage distribution is exponential impact actually) If only we knew the wage distributions! Answer: 42% of people make under $15 an hour. 4.3% make minimum wage today. Thus an increase to $15 is roughly a 10X increase (1 order of magnitude) in the number of people impacted by minimum wage and simultaneously increases the wages to every one of them. That's larger than an order of magnitude in terms of dollars. http://www.nelp.org/publication/growing-movement-15/ https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=percent%20of%20people%20making%20minimum%20wage
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May 8, 2015 23:59
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asdf32 posted:I love that you're calling me ignorant for not claiming to be ignorant about wage distribution and also didn't understand the math (you thought I was saying wage distribution wasn't liner - I wasn't. Linear wage distribution is exponential impact actually) Giving 42% of workers a raise seems like a good idea idk
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May 9, 2015 00:09
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No those poor workers will probably not spend that money.
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May 9, 2015 00:10
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President Kucinich posted:Porque no los dos? You can do both, but the effort is better spent on a minimum wage, especially because of budget paranoia. There are a lot of the tools in the toolbox that often work well together, the question is getting a chance to do it.
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May 9, 2015 00:14
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euphronius posted:No those poor workers will probably not spend that money. Yeah, it's far better to let the companies keep that money since they will absolutely not give it to wealthy investors or just strait up horde it... of course, those loving poors are only poor because they spend their money on stupid poo poo
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May 9, 2015 00:21
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asdf32 posted:I love that you're calling me ignorant for not claiming to be ignorant about wage distribution and also didn't understand the math (you thought I was saying wage distribution wasn't liner - I wasn't. Linear wage distribution is exponential impact actually) lol
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May 9, 2015 00:23
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having this asdf guy around is like a resident court monkey
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May 9, 2015 00:28
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asdf32 posted:Define "rich". your posting asdf32 posted:Answer: 42% of people make under $15 an hour. 4.3% make minimum wage today. Thus an increase to $15 is roughly a 10X increase (1 order of magnitude) in the number of people impacted by minimum wage and simultaneously increases the wages to every one of them. That's larger than an order of magnitude in terms of dollars.
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May 9, 2015 00:47
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Badger of Basra posted:Giving 42% of workers a raise seems like a good idea idk Right I should have anticipated this. After arguing that 15 is only 50% more than 10 the thread is going to shift to "But 2500% is no problem either".
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May 9, 2015 00:49
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asdf32 posted:Right I should have anticipated this. After arguing that 15 is only 50% more than 10 the thread is going to shift to "But 2500% is no problem either". A two hundred dollar minimum wage, eh?
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May 9, 2015 00:51
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asdf32 posted:Right I should have anticipated this. After arguing that 15 is only 50% more than 10 the thread is going to shift to "But 2500% is no problem either". How many intellectually childish watermelons are you loving per day you sick bastard.
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May 9, 2015 00:58
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asdf32 posted:Right I should have anticipated this. After arguing that 15 is only 50% more than 10 the thread is going to shift to "But 2500% is no problem either". Kudos on completing remedial percentages asdf!
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May 9, 2015 01:02
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spacetoaster posted:Is it really only right wing? Did all the left wing richies get that way through love and kindness? maybe we forgive the left wing richies like FDR because they try to give back and give voice to the working class, makes u think
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May 9, 2015 01:04
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