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Whats the best spell to spam for siege defense on the cheap? It can be absolute garbage chaff, I just need something to keep a wall up for a while. Is it just pack of wolves?
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May 9, 2015 01:33
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| # ? May 23, 2024 09:53 |
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Call of the Winds is pretty decent, any of the metric fucktons of zombies spells if there was a big fight already, enliven gargoyles isn't bad, bone fiends, crossbreeding.
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May 9, 2015 01:54
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TheresNoThyme posted:Whats the best spell to spam for siege defense on the cheap? It can be absolute garbage chaff, I just need something to keep a wall up for a while. High strength or flying summons are what you want, so Ogres, Yetis, Vine Ogres, Gryphons, Leogryphs, etc. would likely be most cost effective. Crossbred probably aren't bad either for their sheer numbers. dis astranagant posted:Call of the Winds is pretty decent, any of the metric fucktons of zombies spells if there was a big fight already, enliven gargoyles isn't bad, bone fiends, crossbreeding. Call of the Winds summons get siege penalties, and I'm pretty sure mindless units get massive siege penalties.
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May 9, 2015 01:55
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Most of your high strength summons are too expensive to be cost effective as siege chaff.
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May 9, 2015 01:57
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Eschatos posted:High strength or flying summons are what you want, so Ogres, Yetis, Vine Ogres, Gryphons, Leogryphs, etc. would likely be most cost effective. Crossbred probably aren't bad either for their sheer numbers. Unless they changed it, it's just a siege attack penalty for call of the winds. Even with the penalty it's almost as cost effective on offense as pack of wolves with the added benefit of not having to have the caster in the province.
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May 9, 2015 01:58
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I think only imps are cheaper, and then only if you have a lot of casters and have no pressing need for slaves. Which you will if you're going hard blood.
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May 9, 2015 02:01
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Magil Zeal posted:Maybe the situation was different over there since I never really had much scouting of the Ermor/Niefel border, but the graphs make Ermor look like a contender for a good portion of the early/midgame. High income (highest after I was hit hard by Marveni), good province count, good gem income, and good research (only a little lower than TC/Agartha who were essentially tied). Always hard to tell how well a blood nation is doing on the graphs since I don't think blood hunting is tracked, but I suspected you were hurting after BoT. It's because I loving suck.
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May 9, 2015 02:02
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Vine ogres might top wolves if you already have ivy crowns handy. Corpseman construction definitely beats it with lightning rods and/or storm spools.
dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 02:12 on May 9, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 02:09
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dis astranagant posted:Vine ogres might top wolves if you already have ivy crowns handy. Corpseman construction definitely beats it with lightning rods and/or storm spools. Thanks, and yea this is what I'm looking for. Ogres are good but wolves are crazy efficient - 9 strength with scaling numbers for 2 gems .... I guess probably call of winds is similar in effectiveness I'll look into swapping over to vine ogres later. My main access is to D/N/E/F, I'm looking at shadebeasts and pack of wolves right now.
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May 9, 2015 02:18
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Eschatos posted:Call of the Winds summons get siege penalties, and I'm pretty sure mindless units get massive siege penalties. Black Hawks only have a penalty for sieging down enemy castles, they have no penalties for defending friendly castles.
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May 9, 2015 02:39
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It's all gonna depend on what gems and casters you have available, Call of the Winds ain't helping if you've got no Air casters/income. The question should probably be framed in terms of what gem/path resources you have to hand. edit - Which I now notice you just stated.
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May 9, 2015 02:45
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Dont use vine ogres, they are mindless. Mindless units are 10% effective at repairing walls.
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May 9, 2015 06:09
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TheresNoThyme posted:Whats the best spell to spam for siege defense on the cheap? Wolves are only Str 9 which is pretty shite for castle defence, Shade Beasts are a good call as they don't drain supplies and have ok strength. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 10:46 on May 9, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 10:41
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They said I was crazy to make a flying Nazi mod well who is crazy now
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May 9, 2015 13:14
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They need a huge tank which has incredibly high prot and an extremely powerful main gun but only has 2 ap and 1 map move and breaks down after each fight.
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May 9, 2015 13:17
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Enjoy posted:They said I was crazy to make a flying Nazi mod well who is crazy now
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May 9, 2015 13:19
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Adolf Hitler, Maker of Ruins
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May 9, 2015 14:56
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jBrereton posted:Great Bears (NOT FALL BEARS) are alright for the price and quite a lot of factions get a shot at them. Str 19 means they rebuild at like 4ish human guys' strength. Wait, strength has something to do with siege calculation? I though it was sheer numbers on either side, except for flying and certain special abilities.
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May 9, 2015 16:48
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fool_of_sound posted:Wait, strength has something to do with siege calculation? I though it was sheer numbers on either side, except for flying and certain special abilities. The siege strength of a given unit is (strength squared/100) +1 if flying, +siege bonus if applicable.
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May 9, 2015 16:54
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Diabl0658 posted:Dont use vine ogres, they are mindless. Mindless units are 10% effective at repairing walls. This is why Lemuria is the most unfun nation to siege
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May 9, 2015 18:49
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In the end it's Lanka the one who attacked me (EA Agharta). They have at least 3 armies of 300 troops, he advanced with two already in my provinces. He has the typical mix of live and undead monkeys. But... he is casting Fog Warriors in turn 1. I suppose that protect him from EQ/RoS?
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May 10, 2015 08:20
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Turin Turambar posted:In the end it's Lanka the one who attacked me (EA Agharta). They have at least 3 armies of 300 troops, he advanced with two already in my provinces. He has the typical mix of live and undead monkeys. But... he is casting Fog Warriors in turn 1. I suppose that protect him from EQ/RoS? The best counter to massive armies is always battlefield wide damaging magic (or battlefield wide mind enslaving!), so that seems likely. Bring a load of oracles with some prot gear and cast a load of earthquakes before he can fog warriors, then have a few oracles cast living earth to mop up any non routed squads. Theortically you could kill almost an entire army with no losses (or maybe an oracle or two who got very unlucky on earthquake damage rolls). *Note this strategy has the potential to go horribly wrong if he has units that can shrug off a load of earthquakes and fight their way through earth elementals, so scout his army carefully.
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May 10, 2015 10:32
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Turin Turambar posted:In the end it's Lanka the one who attacked me (EA Agharta). They have at least 3 armies of 300 troops, he advanced with two already in my provinces. He has the typical mix of live and undead monkeys. But... he is casting Fog Warriors in turn 1. I suppose that protect him from EQ/RoS? You could defensively t1 cast RoS. There is no defense to that outside of not bringing an army.
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May 10, 2015 16:52
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That's the plan yeah, though right now my PG is a few provinces away from the army. In any case I think I will hold up well with the magma children, their fire attack pass through fog warriors without problem, and the aoe1 is ideal against hordes of undead.
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May 10, 2015 17:43
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 http://www.dropbox.com/s/f0efv879e1jh6br/WaroftheNations2.2.rar I think Valkyries should have wings e: and assault rifles Enjoy fucked around with this message at 14:46 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 14:44
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Nazi Caelians are go.
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May 11, 2015 15:09
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2015-05-10 22:34:38 +0200 Updated history with new mod commands Commands: #aigoodbless, #aimusthavemag, #aifirenation, etc. Are these new mod commands? Do they imply some work on the AI side of things? Like customizing better how the AI should design his pretender for the picked nation.
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May 11, 2015 18:03
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They possibly do!
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May 11, 2015 18:06
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Turin Turambar posted:Commands: #aigood
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May 11, 2015 18:15
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Looks like Steam has the game on sale this week, for those that read the thread but didn't have enough/were waiting for a price drop.
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May 11, 2015 19:13
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Turin Turambar posted:2015-05-10 22:34:38 +0200 Presumably? Looks like the first two are for pretender design and the second is maybe a mage scripting thing?
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May 12, 2015 00:29
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Well, Sore Losers 2: Live Free or AI Hard has ended in victory for the forces of MA Mictlan. My pretender at the end of the game:  It was a fairly common Mictlan bless, with the E2 added in the last few turns as I was going to shift it over to monthly Infernal Crusade castings if the game had gone on any longer. As this game went up before the patch, the screen with actual scales listed was eaten, but I started with it dormant, and T3 S3 H3 G3 L3 with Dom 8, I believe. And the endgame map:  So, I had a fairly strong start, expanding quickly and reaching out to my neighbors. After initial expansion, this consisted of Tien C'hi, Ashdod, Pangaea, Nazca, C'tis, and Pythium. Greetings were exchanged, but more vitally I got multiple NAPs out of several of them, which allowed me to pick my first target relatively safely. This target ended up being Pangaea. Both due to their masses of stealthy units I didn't want to deal with in the long term, as well as wanting their N gem generation, this selection was never really in doubt barring an unforeseen occurrence, which did not happen. Crucially, I also got in touch with Pangaea's western neighbor, which was Jotunheim controlled by Flame112. Together we coordinated an assault against Pan, and it went fairly smoothly for the most part. There was some annoyance at the end as his last few territories were being grabbed when he stopped engaging in pitched battles and instead over to seduction harrassment - most irritatingly when a Dryad managed to seduce one of MA Mictlan's national hero Couatls from me - but all territories were grabbe shortly thereafter and my final assault on his cap was not very far behind. The next few turns were fairly smooth, as I consolidated my gains and began researching in earnest, but a snag was quickly run into. That snag being Pythium attacking me, followed shortly thereafter by Ashdod. This was probably the hairiest point in the game for me, as while I quickly managed to contain Pythium, though I had to keep most of my mages out of the fight due to Mind Duel spam, Ashdod rolled a huge force of Anakites over my border, which I wasn't entirely sure how to stop given a fair chunk of my army was already in a holding pattern arrayed against Pythium. Ultimately I settled on general harassment of forces outside his main one, along with throwing turkeys at any of his armies that happened to contain S mages. As he'd apparently never been too interested in the invasion to begin with, his mounting losses eventually got him to agree to a return to pre-war borders and no (HA) hard feelings. At about the same time, I discovered Pythium's meta reason for attacking me - he tends to attack blood nations - and successfully convinced him that MA Mictlan is the exception compared to the other two and has basically no more Blood access than any other nation. This was even true at the time, but shortly thereafter undermined by the King of Legends(D3B3) national hero appearing on my doorstep, at which point I started my B research and beelined for Tlahuelpuchis, a fact I failed to mention. Ultimately, Pythium pulled out to attack the "true" blood nation on the map, Nifelheim, and that, along with Ashdod abandoning the war, left me damaged but intact due to my arrangements with them resulting in me basically the same amount of territory I had at the start of the war. It was around this time that people began to AI out, including Ashdod and Tien C'hi. As Nifelheim was at the time involved in a war against I believe 3 other nations - Pythium, Tien C'hi and Ashdod if I recall correctly - I took the chance to begin gobbling up Ashdod's territory, which was rather large. As Nifelheim had been winning or at least stalemating against his opponents as well, their going AI helped him decisively tip the scales on his side as well, ultimately resulting in both Tien C'hi and Ashdod getting split between us - with me getting most of Ashdod, and him ending up with much of Tien C'hi. As we were starting to enter the lategame at this point, players starting AIing out until the only players left were me as Mictlan, Flame112 as Nifelheim, and thespookydanger as C'tis. At this point Nifelheim and I were the clear frontrunners, both of us with huge swathes of territory and multiple caps, but neither of us seemed particularly willing to start up the next war, so what we ended up with was several tens of turns of stalemate, where we were ultimately just screwing around, seeing what various spells did. Eventually Nifelheim began aggressively pushing for the throne win, working on taking the various AI-controlled thrones on the map and I moved to preempt him. Though until the very end we never actually had more than a skirmish or two, we were aggressively moving to block and force him to make the first move. At the very end, I had just taken Pythium's remaining throne province and, after realizing claiming it would put me 1 point away from the throne win, threw caution out the window. C'tis possessed a single unforted throne on our border, and had for nearly the entire game, and it was the sole remaining point I needed to win. Thus, I held off capping the throne I had just taken so as to not give the game away, while throwing a coven of 12 Vampire Lords with their associated Vampires along with a Seraph and Chayot for spellcasting duties at one of Flame's throne provinces as a distraction while every Beast Bat in range along with any troops that happened to already be on the border jumped C'tis's throne. Of the nations remaining, spookydanger had remained relatively passive, mostly concerned with conquering Ulm in the early game, and later on at war with Asphodel. Pythium and Asphodel had been AI for a long time at this point and were in the process of being devoured slowly, but still alive due to no concentrated effort put forth by any of us. The only other nation remaining, Nazca, formerly controlled by Kitfox, was being generally ignored. Both Nifelheim and I had marched armies in, and promptly gotten swamped by hundreds of undead - with more constantly being generated. As nothing in that territory was crucial, we ultimately just pulled out. Ultimately it was a pretty fun game, and let me actually try out Wish. I ended up empowering two Couatls to S6 and proceeding to forge Skullcaps, Rings of Sorcery and Crystal Coins to fill out the rest. In retrospect one would probably have been fine, but oh well. And now, for the graphs. Provinces:  Forts:  Income:  Gem Income:  Mine in Particular:  Research:  Dominion:  Army Size:  Of course, both Flame112 and I are both filthy, filthy cheats who won a different game before Sore Losers 2 itself ended, so congratulations to the real winner: thespookydanger! 
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May 12, 2015 01:40
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Lord Koth posted:At about the same time, I discovered Pythium's meta reason for attacking me - he tends to attack blood nations - and successfully convinced him that MA Mictlan is the exception compared to the other two and has basically no more Blood access than any other nation. This was even true at the time, but shortly thereafter undermined by the King of Legends(D3B3) national hero appearing on my doorstep, at which point I started my B research and beelined for Tlahuelpuchis, a fact I failed to mention. Ultimately, Pythium pulled out to attack the "true" blood nation on the map, Nifelheim, and that, along with Ashdod abandoning the war, left me damaged but intact due to my arrangements with them resulting in me basically the same amount of territory I had at the start of the war. I pulled out because I couldn't possibly move forward without being instantly killed by Eagle Warriors. I only won a single battle against you, I think, and that was because you attacked into me and I had a first turn storm up. It was a fun game but I just AIed out once BoT went up to stay. There was no way I was going to beat you or Flame. e: Always go AI. Always attack Mictlan. Decrepus fucked around with this message at 02:50 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 02:47
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Lord Koth posted:It was around this time that people began to AI out, including Ashdod and Tien C'hi. As Nifelheim was at the time involved in a war against I believe 3 other nations - Pythium, Tien C'hi and Ashdod if I recall correctly Lord Koth posted:Of course, both Flame112 and I are both filthy, filthy cheats who won a different game before Sore Losers 2 itself ended, so congratulations to the real winner: thespookydanger! To be fair, my win didn't happen until yesterday!
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May 12, 2015 04:55
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Lord Koth posted:Of course, both Flame112 and I are both filthy, filthy cheats who won a different game before Sore Losers 2 itself ended, so congratulations to the real winner: thespookydanger! I had no plan at all other than "try an awake expander", "try skelespam", "try to not lose in the first two years of my second game." I learned that dragons can't just smash into everything forever, take D5 on a C'Tis pretender or get into blood. Also I guess have a plan? The last ~20 turns I was just trying to build artifacts and use them. If the game had gone one more turn i'd have stolen both your MOAK and anger waters, so there's that edit: oh yeah and don't take dom6 on pre-pretender rebalance patch god and build some loving temples. gently caress angry forests or w/e that poo poo is called. Sloppy Milkshake fucked around with this message at 07:09 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 07:07
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Sloppy Milkshake posted:I had no plan at all other than "try an awake expander", "try skelespam", "try to not lose in the first two years of my second game." I learned that dragons can't just smash into everything forever, take D5 on a C'Tis pretender or get into blood. Also I guess have a plan? The last ~20 turns I was just trying to build artifacts and use them. If the game had gone one more turn i'd have stolen both your MOAK and anger waters, so there's that You don't need D5 on a C'tis god you should take an awake earth snake 100% of the time as C'tis and there really isn't any equivalent substitution.
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May 12, 2015 07:42
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I Love You! posted:You don't need D5 on a C'tis god you should take an awake earth snake 100% of the time as C'tis and there really isn't any equivalent substitution. This game started long before earth snakes existed.
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May 12, 2015 07:46
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A friend of mine just reminded me that this game existed, it's been like a year since I even thought about it. Did they ever fix Yomi?
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May 12, 2015 15:58
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:A friend of mine just reminded me that this game existed, it's been like a year since I even thought about it. Define 'fix'
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May 12, 2015 16:03
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ChickenWing posted:Define 'fix' Make them merely bad instead of a literally anti-designed nation where every asset you have cripples some other asset.
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May 12, 2015 16:04
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