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Wait you can take the baby out into the wasteland??
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May 9, 2015 03:22
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Who What Now posted:How the gently caress do people not know what emergent gameplay is in TYOOL 2015? This poo poo's been around for almost two decades. People probably do but they didn't know there was a term for it.
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May 9, 2015 03:30
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I thought it referred to unintended game behaviours/states that result in desirable gameplay. Like players having to play a certain way since an AI is bugged in a special sort of way that changes the intended gamplay. Like the cops running you down making people a lot more gung-ho in police chases.
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May 9, 2015 03:35
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Just Cause 2 is the greatest example of emergent gameplay. Nothing beats trading my secret service duties to become a Tuk-Tuk driver with a penchant for explosives and grappling hooks. (I wish GTA V online had more options for players vs comps right out the gate.)
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May 9, 2015 03:45
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FactsAreUseless posted:So there originally weren't cops in GTA but they generated spontaneously like Tron 2? They were supposed to follow you, stop you, and arrest you. Except rather than, say, get behind you then slow down and follow you, they charged as fast as they could go directly into the player vehicle, making it something of a demolition derby. Since you couldn't stop for them (they kept pushing you) more cops would show up and make a huge mess and it was fun enough to spawn a slew of sequels.
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May 9, 2015 03:49
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A good example of emergent gameplay is the 1up mushroom challenge in Mario 64. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHqzWSL639c The goal is to activate the 1up mushroom at the top of the tree, and then collect all 8 red coins and the star with out getting the 1up. The mushroom chases you and is very fast, so it's not easy.
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May 9, 2015 04:18
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Spikey posted:A good example of emergent gameplay is the 1up mushroom challenge in Mario 64. That sounds like someone only had one game growing up and played it to death and needed to create fun.
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May 9, 2015 12:37
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Evilreaver posted:They were supposed to follow you, stop you, and arrest you. Except rather than, say, get behind you then slow down and follow you, they charged as fast as they could go directly into the player vehicle, making it something of a demolition derby. Since you couldn't stop for them (they kept pushing you) more cops would show up and make a huge mess and it was fun enough to spawn a slew of sequels.
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May 9, 2015 13:15
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FactsAreUseless posted:Oh, so "emergent gameplay" is gameplay that causes sequels to emerge? Potentially! Or it can even give sequels new features, ideas or rewards based off of some emergent gameplay, like how the GBA Metroid games rewarded players for speedrunning and low completion percentages.
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May 9, 2015 13:57
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ChaosArgate posted:Potentially! Or it can even give sequels new features, ideas or rewards based off of some emergent gameplay, like how the GBA Metroid games rewarded players for speedrunning and low completion percentages. So you're citing Metroid Fusion as a game that supports emergent gameplay because it has a different picture at the end if you finish it fast enough? This is the game that was actively designed to prevent sequence breaking and actually does give you pointers on where exactly to go and only offers one route to get there.
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May 9, 2015 14:10
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Oh I see, it's like how more of Samus emerges from her power suit in the various endings, that's emergent gameplay. So like alternate costumes and stuff that make the characters sexier. Edit: Okay, I've given it some thought, and I get the GTA comparison now. A lot of women in GTA wear bikinis. FactsAreUseless has a new favorite as of 14:28 on May 9, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 14:12
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FactsAreUseless posted:Oh, so "emergent gameplay" is gameplay that causes sequels to emerge? More like they just eventually build emergent features into games. Skiing in Tribes 1 (sliding down hills to go at insane speeds) was a bug/exploit that was enough fun to be made into a core gameplay feature of Tribes 2 and beyond.
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May 9, 2015 14:35
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Evilreaver posted:More like they just eventually build emergent features into games. Skiing in Tribes 1 (sliding down hills to go at insane speeds) was a bug/exploit that was enough fun to be made into a core gameplay feature of Tribes 2 and beyond.
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May 9, 2015 14:38
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Aren't you all massively overthinking this? Isn't emergent gameplay just unintended gameplay elements that emerge from bugs, exploits or unforeseen consequences of different systems working together, which may or may not be adopted by developers in future projects? It seems like a pretty simple concept that some games actively encourage with open worlds, AI systems, factions, etc, while others are designed to minimize it through heavy scripting and stuff.
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May 9, 2015 15:20
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Evilreaver posted:More like they just eventually build emergent features into games. Skiing in Tribes 1 (sliding down hills to go at insane speeds) was a bug/exploit that was enough fun to be made into a core gameplay feature of Tribes 2 and beyond. The same goes for rocket jumping in TF2. It was originally unintended back in the days of Quake, but these days TF2 has it in as a deliberate feature.
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May 9, 2015 15:25
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emergent play is whatever you want it to be baby
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May 9, 2015 15:26
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Slime posted:The same goes for rocket jumping in TF2. It was originally unintended back in the days of Quake, but these days TF2 has it in as a deliberate feature.
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May 9, 2015 15:27
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FactsAreUseless posted:So the Heavy would be a good example of emergent gameplay? In much the same way a turd emerges from an rear end my friend.
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May 9, 2015 15:29
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FactsAreUseless posted:So the Heavy would be a good example of emergent gameplay? Literally everything is emergent gameplay. Space Invaders was meant to be accounting software but a bug made it so you could shoot aliens.
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May 9, 2015 15:29
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FactsAreUseless posted:Oh I see, it's like how more of Samus emerges from her power suit in the various endings, that's emergent gameplay. So like alternate costumes and stuff that make the characters sexier. Honest question: are you legitimately retarded?
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May 9, 2015 15:31
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How hard is it to figure out he's being facetious after like 10 posts of it?
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May 9, 2015 15:36
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HMS Boromir posted:How hard is it to figure out he's being facetious after like 10 posts of it?
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May 9, 2015 15:39
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Slime posted:Literally everything is emergent gameplay. Space Invaders was meant to be accounting software but a bug made it so you could shoot aliens. You joke, but Space Invaders wasn't supposed to get harder as you cleared the field, the processor just wasn't fast enough to handle lots of sprites so the framerate went up and the game ended up getting harder as it went-- the first example of progressive difficulty. 
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May 9, 2015 15:40
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FactsAreUseless posted:I only did it because after my "Emergent gameplay is seeing the Buddha on the road and killing him" joke, some guy from GBS sent me a long-rear end PM explaining emergent gameplay, so I just decided to go with it. In a way your experience with this discussion has itself been a sort of emergent gameplay.
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May 9, 2015 15:43
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FactsAreUseless posted:I only did it because after my "Emergent gameplay is seeing the Buddha on the road and killing him" joke, some guy from GBS sent me a long-rear end PM explaining emergent gameplay, so I just decided to go with it. Emergent posting.
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May 9, 2015 16:03
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Favorite emergent gameplay was the uncapped alchemy in morrowind. To bad they got rid of it in sequels, which dragged them down.
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May 9, 2015 16:56
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Slime posted:Literally everything is emergent gameplay. Space Invaders was meant to be accounting software but a bug made it so you could shoot aliens. You joke but the aliens speeding up as you killed them was originally a bug. Emergent Gameplay!
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May 9, 2015 18:19
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I'd say the problem is that we've got two distinct things we're using the same term for, and people are arguing because we can't keep straight which meaning of emergent gameplay we mean. 1) The traditionalist definition, many examples of which have been provided, meaning "dickery that the game devs genuinely did not intend, often exploiting bugs or lapses in coding". 2) The "modern" definition, meaning all non-directed play. Probably the reason why these two completely different things have the same name is that the second one grew from the first; the dickery in early GTA was textbook emergent gameplay, one that the game changed itself to focus on. So modern open-world games get called "emergent" even though, for example, the Nemesis system of Mordor is about as undirected as a choose-your-own-adventure book. A very granular one, for sure, but still definitely directed play. I guess the reason why we feel the need to think of this as undirected play is that, for the past decade or so, the norm has been highly directed play, especially in the realm of console games.
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May 9, 2015 19:05
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Emergent gameplay is like pornography - you know it when you see it.
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May 9, 2015 19:52
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The ludicrously long triathlon in GTA5. I didn't play those Olympics games growing up, I can't tap A for that long, my hand is going to fall off.
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May 9, 2015 19:57
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This emergent gameplay chat is dragging the thread down. Fallout: New Vegas: It's been a little while since I played this game. I'd forgotten how good ED-E is at getting stuck on doorways in Vault 34. And how good all companions can be at running into your line of fire.
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May 9, 2015 19:58
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Walton Simons posted:The ludicrously long triathlon in GTA5. I didn't play those Olympics games growing up, I can't tap A for that long, my hand is going to fall off. Running a triathlon is loving tiring so it's pretty cool how tiring it gets to tap X
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May 9, 2015 20:02
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Walton Simons posted:The ludicrously long triathlon in GTA5. I didn't play those Olympics games growing up, I can't tap A for that long, my hand is going to fall off. IIRC they rubberband like mad so you don't need to hammer it constantly, just enough to stay near the front until the very end. It still sucked rear end though.
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May 9, 2015 20:14
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DStecks posted:I'd say the problem is that we've got two distinct things we're using the same term for, and people are arguing because we can't keep straight which meaning of emergent gameplay we mean. And I will agree that trying to force emergent gameplay is a thing that drags Skyrim down. Radiant quests pushing you toward unexplored dungeons just to fetch an unimportant item is lazy, randomly-generated trash. Shadow of Mordor implements a bit of randomness on its own with some of its orcs, but it's all still very much an intended part of the story and not "fun" made up by the player. That being said, SoM's lategame is legitimately great for this, because once you have a ton of powers it is extremely fun to just challenge yourself by doing things like killing an entire stronghold of orcs, or seeing how many you can kill by luring Graugs around and not attacking a single orc yourself. It seems weird thinking about all the little things like that, though, and realizing how much of it has gone on to become expected actions of the player via achievements. Like some combat challenges in the Arkham ______ games, where stuff like "knock out x guys using only y move" or "glide for z feet without touching the ground" aren't just emergent aspects of gameplay that the player thought up, but rather mandatory goals to access some game content.
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May 9, 2015 20:14
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can't you retards just play videogames without being all spergy about it? Video games are fun
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May 9, 2015 23:53
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stop posting about videogames that's not what this thread is for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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May 10, 2015 00:14
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Things dragging games down: Emergent gameplay. If you ever deviate from a scripted, linear, 6 hour long, kill bad mens and collect loots to kill more bad mens and collect more loots type of gameplay, the police should come to your house and chop your hands off.
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May 10, 2015 00:20
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Cleretic posted:-In V, it's all quite clearly signposted. It's clear with a bit of looking where all the quests are, because there's always something directing you there. In VI, some of the sidequests are really unclear. The Phoenix Cave where you reunite with Locke, the Ancient Castle where you get Odin/Raiden, the location of Umaro, how you recruit Terra after finding her again, Shadow just in general... you can be forgiven for missing all of these, because there's no indication whatsoever where you go or what you do. I think the only thing that isn't really hinted towards is how to uncurse the cursed shield. They tell you you can uncurse it but never that I can remember imply you would do so by winning fights while wearing it. Cleretic posted:-V's difficulty is really consistent; it's all 'FFV Hard', where it's a pretty decent challenge right up until you figure out how to completely and utterly clown it. Not so in FFVI, where challenge in the World of Ruin varies wildly, from the cakewalk of Owzer's Mansion to the frustrating complexity of the Phoenix Cave, right up to the 'gently caress you' of the Cultist's Tower. Bosses are all over the place too; some dungeons don't even have them, for absolutely no clear reason, while others will come out swinging with something like Magic Master. The closest thing the game has to a superboss is randomly plopped somewhere in the sky, ready to obliterate you before you can even know what's going on and without giving you a chance to save. The game could have used some decent superbosses though so the battle system could stretch its legs a bit more. Unfortunately they made the dual mistakes of using 16bits to store enemy hp so no enemy can have more than 65535 health and making it so almost all good attacks ignore defense so a well equipped party can kill anything in at most 7 or 8 attacks. Poor damage/success rate/what-have-you formulas drag down most of the FFs sadly. Only FFX of the numbered games actually did good damage/defense/success rate/etc formulas. Cleretic posted:-V's rewards were pretty consistently worthwhile, too. Every one of those bonus little things would give you a pretty good piece of equipment, or a spell, or a new job. VI's rewards are disparate at best, with one dungeon giving you a single pretty useless esper, while another might give you an extremely useful one, plus a crucial piece of equipment, a great relic, and/or a party member. At least one literally doesn't even have a reward or dungeon loot, it's just an annoying cave that ends in a pretty strong boss that provides no reward. Ebot's Rock is the only dungeon that doesn't have a good reward. Its reward being that the final boss is the only place you can learn Strago's strongest Lore which is just a crappier version of Ultima and almost certainly useless by the time you get it and you need to finagle Hidon to cast it if you want it which is a tedious pain. Cleretic posted:Basically, the wheels fall off FFVI at the end, to such a point where I can't really tell what they were going for, I can only tell that I'm pretty sure they failed. After getting the Airship in the World of Ruin is my favourite part of any JRPG. The aimless wandering trying to figure out what to do and where to go. Trying to guess where they hid my favourite characters so I could go there first. Finding something delightfully unexpected at the end of a dungeon. That was so much fun as a kid. I wish more games would do something like that.
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May 10, 2015 02:19
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Chard posted:IIRC they rubberband like mad so you don't need to hammer it constantly, just enough to stay near the front until the very end. It still sucked rear end though. Everything rubberbands like crazy in GTA V. The worst rubberbanding I remember is the mission where you have to race back from the Paleto Bay bank back to the city as either Michael or Trevor. The route you're supposed to follow involves this winding dirt road over a mountain, but there's actually a train track you can take instead that cuts through the mountain and it's probably most of a mile shorter, and if you're Trevor you're on a bike which is going to smoke Michael's lovely car anyway. Well, I lost that race when I fell off my bike right at the end and Michael was zooming at like 400 MPH over the mountain to catch up to me. The reverse is true too though, if you go too slow the AI pretty much stops in its tracks and waits for you to catch up. And I feel like most of the AI racers are programmed to go slow right at the end so you can have that EPIC COMEBACK right at the end. So it's not worth fretting over falling behind early on.
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May 10, 2015 04:05
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RyokoTK posted:Everything rubberbands like crazy in GTA V. The worst rubberbanding I remember is the mission where you have to race back from the Paleto Bay bank back to the city as either Michael or Trevor. The route you're supposed to follow involves this winding dirt road over a mountain, but there's actually a train track you can take instead that cuts through the mountain and it's probably most of a mile shorter, and if you're Trevor you're on a bike which is going to smoke Michael's lovely car anyway. Well, I lost that race when I fell off my bike right at the end and Michael was zooming at like 400 MPH over the mountain to catch up to me. It doesn't even try to hide it; you can even turn on rubberbanding (called "catchup") for PvP races in online, however that works.
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May 10, 2015 05:10
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