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Z the IVth posted:This comment comes from a time where everyone and their uncle did that hideous S-E (sky-earth) NMM. God that was hideous. It doesn't look BAD exactly, it just makes everything look like an 80s album cover or airbrushed on a van. And there are some pieces where it really does have a sweet spot but that is mostly larger models where the WHOLE THING is done in NMM, like that crazy Khorne dreadnought.
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May 8, 2015 16:50
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I've got this weird compromise thing where I add increasing amounts of white to metallic paint and do a pseudo-NMM. MNMM I guess? It works for me, anyway. Plus I get fantastic gold coverage by mixing ochre with metallic gold for the base coat.
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May 8, 2015 16:54
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For gold I usually do an ocher base, wash with chestnut, do a midtone with a suitable yellow, wash with a very thin gold MM color, then highlight MM silver(I like VMA Aluminium). So it's a total hybrid cluster gently caress and I can flip the bird at both sides of the MM/NMM argument. Eventually I'll get around to finishing Dante and y'all can see it in action.
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May 8, 2015 17:11
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JoshTheStampede posted:It doesn't look BAD exactly, it just makes everything look like an 80s album cover or airbrushed on a van. So, in other words, it makes everything look fantastic.
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May 8, 2015 18:24
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Z the IVth posted:This comment comes from a time where everyone and their uncle did that hideous S-E (sky-earth) NMM. God that was hideous. I find that this look works decently well when it's something tiny that your brain immediately recognizes is supposed to be a mirrored surface, like a visor or something, and drops off in effectiveness sharply the more the artist tries to milk it.
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May 8, 2015 18:34
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JerryLee posted:I find that this look works decently well when it's something tiny that your brain immediately recognizes is supposed to be a mirrored surface, like a visor or something, and drops off in effectiveness sharply the more the artist tries to milk it. All visors should be painted with extreme SENMM with mountains on the horizon for full "respect my authoritah" impact.
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May 8, 2015 18:35
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moths posted:I've got this weird compromise thing where I add increasing amounts of white to metallic paint and do a pseudo-NMM. MNMM I guess? It works for me, anyway. Plus I get fantastic gold coverage by mixing ochre with metallic gold for the base coat. This isn't NMM, this true metallics, IE how real professional painters do metals. The general opinion in basically all pro painting circles these days is that NMM looks like poo poo. You still see it show up here and there in some places, usually on 40k minis because 40k painters are always a bit behind the times, but we've moved so far beyond the mid-00's days of slathering everything is bad NMM jobs. I've talked about this with examples in the last thread, but seriously if you look at/follow real painters and not guys who have popular threads on Dakka or something there is no contest in how good well highlighted metallics look in comparison to NMM: http://www.coolminiornot.com/184673?browseid=12046462 http://www.coolminiornot.com/258624?browseid=12046476 http://www.coolminiornot.com/358135?browseid=12046476 http://demonwinner.free.fr/italy/2013/golden_demon_winner.php?categorie=5 Specifically the first two minis are all done with highlighted metallics instead of NMM: http://demonwinner.free.fr/spain/2012Barcelona/golden_demon_winner.php?categorie=5
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May 8, 2015 18:41
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El Estrago Bonito posted:The general opinion in basically all pro painting circles these days is that NMM looks like poo poo. This is extremely not true. NMM done well looks good, just like TMM done well looks good. NMM done badly is poo poo, just like metallics done badly look like poo poo. This Vs mentality where one has to be the "real painters method" is bullshit and doesn't accomplish anything. Look at this and tell me NMM looks like poo poo: http://www.coolminiornot.com/350515?browseid=12046570 It's true that a lot of "pro painters", particularly Euro painters, are in the middle of something of a TMM renaissance, and that NMM's heyday as a popular flavor of the month is past for now. But they're just techniques, it's like saying wet blending is garbage from the 90s while glazing is how real men paint, that's just meaningless noise. Edit: It also matters what you are painting. I paint Relic Knights with NMM because cartoony anime fits the sculpts and the aesthetic of the game. I paint Infinity with NMM because I think metals look bad in the tiny scale of those guns. I paint Malifaux with TMM because gritty realism fits those models better, to me. Edit 2: ALso, as a counterpoint, All three of the winners at Crystal Brush (all "real pro painters" with DVDs and everything) heavily featured NMM. It's not a dead technique by any stretch. JoshTheStampede fucked around with this message at 19:07 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 18:55
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El Estrago Bonito posted:This isn't NMM, this true metallics, IE how real professional painters do metals. The general opinion in basically all pro painting circles these days is that NMM looks like poo poo. You still see it show up here and there in some places, usually on 40k minis because 40k painters are always a bit behind the times, but we've moved so far beyond the mid-00's days of slathering everything is bad NMM jobs. Doctor Faust's page used to have an article on "true" metallics - ie no paint, just buff the raw metal. I wonder if anyone's tried that before? I tried shading metallics on my last Infinity figure and I really like how it's turned out. Trying to find a figure that is more than just a few gunbarrels worth of metal so I can practice it for real.
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May 8, 2015 19:00
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JoshTheStampede posted:Edit 2: ALso, as a counterpoint, All three of the winners at Crystal Brush (all "real pro painters" with DVDs and everything) heavily featured NMM. It's not a dead technique by any stretch. If by all you mean one sure. It's an exceptionally dated technique at this point. There's nothing stopping you from liking it but even when it's done extremely well like the knight you linked it still doesn't look as good as the pinnacle of real metals. And yeah, wet blending has been basically entirely superseded by TBB at this point (which is a refinement of wet blending if you want to be technical). El Estrago Bonito fucked around with this message at 19:36 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 19:33
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El Estrago Bonito posted:If by all you mean one sure. It's an exceptionally dated technique at this point. There's nothing stopping you from liking it but even when it's done extremely well like the knight you linked it still doesn't look as good as the pinnacle of real metals. No, I mean all three of the top three. Kiril Kanaev's space marine, Ben Komet's pirate diorama and Jessica Rich's dryad thing, though admittedly Rich's has significantly less than the other two. Edit: I mean there's nothing stopping you from not liking it but calling it an outdated technique or claiming "basically every pro painter" agrees its objectively inferior is just plain false.
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May 8, 2015 19:35
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JoshTheStampede posted:No, I mean all three of the top three. Kiril Kanaev's space marine, Ben Komet's pirate diorama and Jessica Rich's dryad thing, though admittedly Rich's has significantly less than the other two. All the actual metal surfaces on the marine are in real metals, and the pirate one has very limited NMM (and mixes the two in odd ways that are pretty cool IMHO). The Dryad is the only one that is done with entirely NMM.
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May 8, 2015 19:37
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El Estrago Bonito posted:All the actual metal surfaces on the marine are in real metals, and the pirate one has very limited NMM (and mixes the two in odd ways that are pretty cool IMHO). The Dryad is the only one that is done with entirely NMM. I'm not certain about the space marine but I was talking about the actual armor, which looks like metallic blue but I'm like 95% sure is NMM because Kanaev is a texture-painting jedi master. There's a ton of NMM on the pirate one, and the stuff on the sign even has the horizon line people complain about. The sword hilt, the belt buckle, etc. In any case, art doesn't work the way you are describing. There's not really obsolete techniques, at least not within the past few decades. Better painting has become more widespread and infiltrated the gaming world, and the tools available are better and more widely available. But two-brush-blending is just a name Privateer Press put on a technique people have been using forever, so they could refer to it and build a recognizable style for their company like Rackham and GW did. When Meg Maples went to work for PP, they told her she had to learn to 2BB their way, not because it was better, but because they wanted all the stuff coming out of the studio to be the same style. It's not special or better than doing the same thing with one brush and cleaning it in between. Even within "wet blending" you'll find dozens of slightly different ways to do it. Stuff isn't as codified as you are making it out to be. Same with glazing or "feathering" or layering (or "multilayering" which is what people call layering when they want to make it clear they aren't doing it badly I guess?).
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May 8, 2015 19:53
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Theres a lot of people that can't tell the difference between NMM and Metallics in this thread right now.
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May 8, 2015 20:11
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apologies if this is common knowledge, but i've been out of TG for awhile. I've been having a ton of issues with Seraphim Sepia that I swear I never had with Gryphonne Sepia. Particularly i used to do a really awesome 'antique gold' effect with chainmail/boltgun and 2-3 layers of gryphonne, it'd come out a really slick dark gold color pretty quickly, but i swear the coverage on seraphim is poo poo, i'm 3-4 applications into the process and instead of a nice gold color its a dirty silver. did i get a bad batch? i bought the pot a couple weeks ago and just got around to using it, looks like there's a fair amount of sludge sitting in the bottom that doesn't want to mix back into the wash, or is this par for the course?
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May 9, 2015 17:39
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treeboy posted:apologies if this is common knowledge, but i've been out of TG for awhile. I've been having a ton of issues with Seraphim Sepia that I swear I never had with Gryphonne Sepia. Particularly i used to do a really awesome 'antique gold' effect with chainmail/boltgun and 2-3 layers of gryphonne, it'd come out a really slick dark gold color pretty quickly, but i swear the coverage on seraphim is poo poo, i'm 3-4 applications into the process and instead of a nice gold color its a dirty silver. The sludge on the bottom means that the ingredients in the wash have separated, and there's little to no way to save it. You're better off getting another bottle. If you like the old Sepia color, Army Painter has a set of washes that are a very close match to the old GW ones. I can vouch for their Strong Tone being basically Devlan Mud and Dark Tone being Badab Black, so I assume their Soft Tone would be a match for Gryphonne Sepia. Grab'em from TheWarStore or another online retailer for like 15-20% off.
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May 9, 2015 17:45
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Slimnoid posted:The sludge on the bottom means that the ingredients in the wash have separated, and there's little to no way to save it. You're better off getting another bottle. thanks i was worried that was the case
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May 9, 2015 17:50
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Should be fine with a real good shake?
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May 9, 2015 17:56
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Skarsnik posted:Should be fine with a real good shake? nah i guess if its old enough it separates and almost turns into some kind of polymer, very odd, doesn't dissolve
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May 9, 2015 19:29
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I think I remember someone in this thread (or the old painting thread) mention that you could recover it using matte medium and/or flow aid, but at that point you're putting more money into saving that pot than it would take just to buy a new one. And at that point, you may as well go the extra mile and start making your own washes, as detailed in the OP.
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May 9, 2015 19:41
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treeboy posted:apologies if this is common knowledge, but i've been out of TG for awhile. I've been having a ton of issues with Seraphim Sepia that I swear I never had with Gryphonne Sepia. Particularly i used to do a really awesome 'antique gold' effect with chainmail/boltgun and 2-3 layers of gryphonne, it'd come out a really slick dark gold color pretty quickly, but i swear the coverage on seraphim is poo poo, i'm 3-4 applications into the process and instead of a nice gold color its a dirty silver. Possibly, but more likely you're having the correct effect. The previous washes still had a kind of glaze effect where they would cover flat areas very well. The new shades are designed as pure washes so will slide off flat surfaces and head to recesses much more aggressively. I dont think the new seraphim sepia will do the same thing anymore, you'll want to make a glaze to do that.
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May 9, 2015 19:44
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I'm finally calling it done on the Corsair I posted a while back. Came out looking okay I think. After a long long while it's back to ground units now with a Long Range Desert Group Chevrolet 30 CWT scorpion next. Picture dump then I'm done with this.           
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May 9, 2015 20:30
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big_g, it's scale modeler stuff like that that absolutely puts most Warhams to shame. loving stellar paintwork and modeling. I'm genuinely intimidated to paint my Imperial Thunderbolt for 40k after seeing planes that good.
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May 9, 2015 21:07
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serious gaylord posted:Possibly, but more likely you're having the correct effect. The previous washes still had a kind of glaze effect where they would cover flat areas very well. The new shades are designed as pure washes so will slide off flat surfaces and head to recesses much more aggressively. I dont think the new seraphim sepia will do the same thing anymore, you'll want to make a glaze to do that. been looking at the home made washes video from dakka, is there a decent guide for making glazes? Didn't see anything in the OP.
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May 9, 2015 21:54
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treeboy posted:been looking at the home made washes video from dakka, is there a decent guide for making glazes? Didn't see anything in the OP. Just thin some paint down. Washes are difficult to make because you need to add something that breaks the surface tension. Glazes you don't want that to happen so you can just thin normal paint down to the right consistency.
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May 9, 2015 22:11
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Every time you post i lose my goddamn mind. Sweet plane bro
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May 9, 2015 23:08
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treeboy posted:been looking at the home made washes video from dakka, is there a decent guide for making glazes? Didn't see anything in the OP. Glaze medium is a thing.
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May 9, 2015 23:18
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Has anyone used basing crap like flock/static grass/clumps on resin bases? I have my Relic Knights Noh on Secret Weapon lava flow bases but have changed my mind. Lava is overdone and I don't want to commit to that much OSL. And lava without OSL is kinda halfassed. But they are pinned and green stuffed so gently caress rebasing them, I'm just going to do the bases up as stream/river style. I figure I should add some foliage but is that gonna work fine on primed resin? I assume it will but I am in overthinking it mode.
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May 9, 2015 23:52
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Anyone have any advice or links for painting models to look like statues specifically SLIGHTLY worn gold and silver statues ???
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May 10, 2015 01:01
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What about Gold or Silver Leaf? I've seen it used on models before and it's pretty easy to use.
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May 10, 2015 02:47
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So just rub that poo poo on? ???
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May 10, 2015 03:27
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so i've been experimenting with the Daler Rowney inks diluted down to a wash and it seems the Black is pretty close to Badab, but the Sepia is closer to Devlan than Gryphonne. Gonna swing by Hobby Lobby on monday and pickup the Raw Sienna ink, it seems to have more red and im hopeful its closer to the old GW sepia
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May 10, 2015 04:53
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Here are all my wash recipes. Devlan is, in my opinion, burnt umber with some other colors thrown in. I actually prefer my burnt umber/burnt sepia colors to the GW devlan.code:
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May 10, 2015 06:36
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I remember about a month back somebody posted a diamond storage cart that was heavily recommend for storing miniatures. Anybody remember that, and have links to stores that sell them? Very secure case, wrapped in foam, meant for diamond merchants, used by nerds.
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May 10, 2015 06:44
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Moola posted:So just rub that poo poo on? No, it comes in a kit that has like glue etc.. it's really easy to do and you can do it to pretty much any object. Pretty cheap. There's some youtube videos on how to do it but it's pretty straight forward.
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May 10, 2015 07:11
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Wazzu posted:I remember about a month back somebody posted a diamond storage cart that was heavily recommend for storing miniatures. Anybody remember that, and have links to stores that sell them? Very secure case, wrapped in foam, meant for diamond merchants, used by nerds. Believe it's this: http://belchedfromthedepths.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-quest-for-perfect-miniatures.html I also did this, pretty happy with the results. I found a lot of my minis were taller than 3 inches though - warmachine pikemen, 'jacks, cavalry, etc. I also found that you don't need to glue the 'spacer' trays that you cut the bottom out of, they nest just fine. Know that if you get the hard silver case, the trays are a little loose on the long axis, but you can stick a piece of foam in some netting on the inside to cushion it a bit.
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May 10, 2015 08:22
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Moola posted:Anyone have any advice or links for painting models to look like statues Google antique silver/gold statues. Copy.
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May 10, 2015 08:50
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treeboy posted:been looking at the home made washes video from dakka, is there a decent guide for making glazes? Didn't see anything in the OP. Control+F 'make your own washes', probably the same or similar guides as on Dakka Dakka
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May 10, 2015 10:31
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Here's my attempt at doing a gold statue effect. It actually looks better better in person I think, but im having trouble taking pictures because its so shiny, and I only have my iphone camera + a single desk lamp.      All I did was boltgun metal prime, ink GW sepia wash, drybrush Vallejo 70996 Gold The third picture is probably the best representation of what it looks like IRL Any advice to improve it??
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May 10, 2015 14:23
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OK. I've actually finished all my Oathed models already (including my first additional oath). So I'm after some feedback on my test Skitarii   I've also finished my Ruststalkers  I do recognise I need to get better at taking photographs.
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May 10, 2015 14:42
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