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Poil posted:All the grail wars are in Japan, aren't they? Totally not a fair weakness. He is already a Lancer. How much more do you want him to suffer?
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May 11, 2015 00:12
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It's not like this is a game where they're supposed to be balanced. It's purely based on their myths. Lancer's myth include a geass which forces him to lose to the wielder of Caladbolg wielded by an Ulster-born.
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May 11, 2015 01:52
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Poil posted:All the grail wars are in Japan, aren't they? Totally not a fair weakness.  On the other hand, Servant get a huge boost if they are summoned in their homeland and potentially gain additional Noble Phantasms. Might be why the system only allow summoning of Western Heroic Spirits. 
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May 11, 2015 01:55
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Nyaa posted:l Might be why the system only allow summoning of Western Heroic Spirits. No such limit.
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May 11, 2015 01:56
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Nyaa posted:Yes, beside spinoff materials. I don't think the system actually does have that restriction; I think people misunderstood a Nasu quote where he was really saying that non-Western Servants made less thematic sense. If it is a rule, than it's apparently a very easy one to break.
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May 11, 2015 02:00
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Silver2195 posted:I don't think the system actually does have that restriction; I think people misunderstood a Nasu quote where he was really saying that non-Western Servants made less thematic sense. If it is a rule, than it's apparently a very easy one to break. quote:Urobuchi: I was having too much trouble thinking of a Caster, so I asked if I could use a Chinese Xian or something. That's how I learned the "Western only" rule. Berserker is the only one that was summoned in Europe before coming to Japan.
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May 11, 2015 02:08
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I think he just meant that Nasu wanted only western heroes for F/Z (which is what I'm assuming that interview is regarding) not that the grail couldn't be used to summon non western ones.
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May 11, 2015 02:12
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I think he just meant that Nasu wanted only western heroes for F/Z (which is what I'm assuming that interview is regarding) not that the grail couldn't be used to summon non western ones. Exactly. I'll discuss this in more detail in Type-Moon General.
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May 11, 2015 02:15
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Isn't Assassin a Japanese hero too? I think that throws the only western heroes out the window.
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May 11, 2015 02:52
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So is Archer.
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May 11, 2015 02:53
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Middle-Eastern/Persian/Arabian counts as Western (F/Z Assassin)? Also Gilgamesh isn't exactly a hero from Western myths. Though I guess everything that isn't from east and south-east Asia is considered Western by some. e; Wait, lump Gil in with Assassin. forgot that he's from the same region. Schubalts fucked around with this message at 03:05 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 03:02
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Nyaa posted:Yes, beside spinoff materials. Western heroes get a huge bias because the Holy Grail itself is a western idea. Also because the summon system was made by an european family.
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May 11, 2015 04:41
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Someone, post gifs from this episode.
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May 11, 2015 19:43
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kay  
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May 11, 2015 20:27
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Kyte posted:Western heroes get a huge bias because the Holy Grail itself is a western idea.
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May 11, 2015 20:34
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Well yes of course but Nasu did take the time to come up with a in-universe reason so might as well mention it.
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May 12, 2015 01:39
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"I am the bone of my sword" is a penis joke right?
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May 12, 2015 18:21
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littleorv posted:"I am the bone of my sword" is a penis joke right? It's mostly just gratuitous English. The VN has the Japanese version as well (since, you know, Japanese people don't speak English) and it's slightly less nonsensical. The better translation is basically "my body is made of Swords."
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May 12, 2015 18:55
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Angry Grimace posted:It's mostly just gratuitous English. The VN has the Japanese version as well (since, you know, Japanese people don't speak English) and it's slightly less nonsensical. I always thought the Japanese version was intended more as a commentary on the English version than as a translation of it.
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May 12, 2015 19:06
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Silver2195 posted:I always thought the Japanese version was intended more as a commentary on the English version than as a translation of it. I don't know how the Japanese would know what Archer was saying in English unless it was supposed to be the original.
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May 12, 2015 19:15
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Angry Grimace posted:I don't know how the Japanese would know what Archer was saying in English unless it was supposed to be the original. A fair point. I just have trouble seeing it as a "mistake" because the two versions are so different, and because the English version is basically grammatically accurate, if cryptic (as opposed to Type-Moon's attempts at German and Latin, which tend to be simply wrong). Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 19:21
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Angry Grimace posted:It's mostly just gratuitous English. The VN has the Japanese version as well (since, you know, Japanese people don't speak English) and it's slightly less nonsensical. Honestly the literal English version I think is the best version as it basically sounds it's most poetic. Aside from what's up at the Type-Moon wiki, has anyone else made a poetic nice-english sounding translation?
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May 12, 2015 19:29
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The original game has the English with the Japanese written above it as an explanation iirc. The actual aria for the spell is and always was the English.
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May 12, 2015 19:30
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Before I lay some pipe I'm going to chant "I am the bone of my sword"
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May 12, 2015 19:34
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Rin responds to the meaning of the Japanese version ("You're body is made of swords? What a horrible life."), so clearly she's supposed to have understood the English to mean that.
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May 12, 2015 19:34
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Related fact: The japanese UBW chant can be considered what's called a death poem, the idea being that at the end of your life you'll reflect back upon yourself and your life. This gives the chant that extra bit of meaning that Rin caught onto. (The english and jp versions have somewhat different meanings and I'm fairly sure it's on purpose)
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May 12, 2015 19:58
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Clarste posted:Rin responds to the meaning of the Japanese version ("You're body is made of swords? What a horrible life."), so clearly she's supposed to have understood the English to mean that. Rin is terrible at foreign languages though.
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May 12, 2015 21:18
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Fangz posted:Rin is terrible at foreign languages though. So it's actually in English, and the Japanese is just Rin's bad translation of it?
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May 12, 2015 21:22
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Perhaps Nasu meant the sword's spine. I am the spine of my swords would make some sense considering Shirou's relationship with swords. Then Nasu thought that spine=bone and away we go.
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May 12, 2015 21:24
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Rodyle posted:The original game has the English with the Japanese written above it as an explanation iirc. The actual aria for the spell is and always was the English. The aria of the spell is in english, yes, in almost all the cases in the novel there is only the Japanese version, without any english. The only exceptions are the single "I am the bone of my sword", that sometimes are in english (and not even always) and the three lines used by Archer to summon it.
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May 12, 2015 21:28
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ChronoReverse posted:Perhaps Nasu meant the sword's spine. I am the spine of my swords would make some sense considering Shirou's relationship with swords. That's basically what I got from it. Not actually "bone". but metaphorically, the spine, the skeleton of the sword. It's core, it's essence, the part of it that everything else is formed around. Archer is the "bone" that the sword is formed around. He is what gives it structure. Gives it form. I am the bone of my sword. Steel is my body is fire is my blood. His will is the structure of his sword. His body, his magic, is the material that it is made of. His blood, the mana that flows through his magic circuits which are basicly his veins, is what shapes and tempers what he makes. He does not HAVE weapons, he is a Blacksmith that makes them from himself, his magic. So making vague comparisons with Bone, Blood, and Body, for Shape, Steel, and Fire makes enough sense once you know that much about him. Or maybe Nasu just thought it sounded cool.
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May 12, 2015 21:54
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Anyone suggesting that the line would be better as "I am the spine of my sword." should stay far away from poetry as possible
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May 12, 2015 22:17
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Eej posted:Anyone suggesting that the line would be better as "I am the spine of my sword." should stay far away from poetry as possible
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May 12, 2015 22:42
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Clarste posted:Rin responds to the meaning of the Japanese version ("You're body is made of swords? What a horrible life."), so clearly she's supposed to have understood the English to mean that. The two versions you can find are basically "English version written by people with a cursory understanding of English" (aka Engrish) and "Completely literal Japanese transliteration." My guess is that the intent was that it was something like: My body is made of swords; Iron is my blood, and glass is my heart; I have overcome countless battlefields undefeated; not once have i retreated, nor once have i been understood. Always alone on the hill of swords, intoxicated with victory; thus, this life has no meaning. And so I pray, Unlimited Blade Works The literal translation has it as "his body is made of swords" which doesn't seem like the intent and ends with "surely this body is made of swords," which isn't cool because anime cool-guy-chants always end with shouting your technique name. Is the dub version of that chant fixed or is it just bad English as well?
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May 12, 2015 23:07
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I think the original English version is actually fine if you correct the clear mistake in the first line and fix the grammar in lines 6 and 7. Unknown to death/Nor known to life/...Yet [these] hands will never hold anything gets the point across pretty well and concisely IMO
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May 12, 2015 23:44
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ChronoReverse posted:I made no pretentious claims about poetry, just that the meaning would be more clear because the spine of a sword blade is a real term whereas bone is not. Bone is a more personal term is the difference. It's not about being clear, it's about sounding as mystical and cool as possible and no one is gonna be like "Whoah" for you specifying an actual term.
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May 13, 2015 06:44
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Beef Waifu posted:Bone is a more personal term is the difference. It's not about being clear, it's about sounding as mystical and cool as possible and no one is gonna be like "Whoah" for you specifying an actual term. Is there something I'm missing here because that's two posts now telling me spine doesn't sound cool or poetic when that's not relevant to me mentioning what Nasu might have been thinking of what he wrote that bit. I know it's not poetic, doesn't roll off the tongue, doesn't sound cool and I don't think many people need to be told that either.
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May 13, 2015 07:32
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My apologies then, I misread. I can't say that Nasu wouldn't be the kind of guy to go for that, because jesus christ would he be, but he's a weird guy with a strange take on the things he likes so it's up to anyone's guess.
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May 13, 2015 07:48
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Even despite how engrishy it sounds, i never found the whole incantation to be confusing or ambiguous while reading the VN. It makes perfect sense at face value imo. Emiya is a hero that didn't get to truly "die" (Unknown to Death) as he sacrificed his entire identity and existence to become a "Guardian" heroic spirit. "Nor known to Life" would refer to the fact that his entire existence as a "hero" was on the whole thankless and unknown. I think in the VN he even refers to himself bitterly as a janitor for mankind at one point. I think use of the word "bone" makes perfect sense as well, as someone else said. He is the essence, core, foundation of his sword(s). Spine doesn't really carry the same connotation.
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May 13, 2015 21:16
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pissdude posted:Even despite how engrishy it sounds, i never found the whole incantation to be confusing or ambiguous while reading the VN. It makes perfect sense at face value imo. Emiya is a hero that didn't get to truly "die" (Unknown to Death) as he sacrificed his entire identity and existence to become a "Guardian" heroic spirit. "Nor known to Life" would refer to the fact that his entire existence as a "hero" was on the whole thankless and unknown. I think in the VN he even refers to himself bitterly as a janitor for mankind at one point. There isn't actually anything wrong with it other than the Engrish makes it sound like its a bad translation of something originally in Japanese.
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May 13, 2015 21:25
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