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Winnable except for the fact GW didn't win. Granted I don't think it went to court but that's because expected the author and Amazon to cave, but they didn't. if it was such a sure win, why didn't GW persue the suit?
FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 19:20
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FrostyPox posted:
Huh, I didn't realize that the new Gaunt's Ghosts novel was out already. I guess I should go down and pick that up.
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May 11, 2015 19:21
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FrostyPox posted:Winnable except for the fact GW didn't win. It didn't go anywhere. It was just a DCMA notice.
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May 11, 2015 19:25
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FrostyPox posted:Winnable except for the fact GW didn't win. Granted I don't think it went to court but that's because expected the author and Amazon to cave, but they didn't. if it was such a sure win, why didn't GW persue the suit? PR reasons, most likely, especially since they probably reached a settlement with NDA. Court cases are expensive and risky, far easier to just settle.
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May 11, 2015 19:26
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I'm going to go back to my original point: lol at gw ripping off dune and then getting mad at other people ripping them off. This has been a special edition of Shitposting Daily, we now return to your regularly scheduled shitposting.
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May 11, 2015 19:27
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Mange Mite posted:PR reasons, most likely, especially since they probably reached a settlement with NDA. Court cases are expensive and risky, far easier to just settle. See also: GW vs. Chapterhouse (which IIRC likely cost them upwards of a million dollars in attorney fees and related costs, and ended with the invalidation of a large number of GW's trademarks, the dismissal of their head legal counsel, and a paltry $25,000 slap-in-the-face "award"...which was apparently subsequently dropped as part of the eventual settlement they came to with CHS  ).tl,dr: GW doesn't do legal stuff very well. E: also I don't for one second believe GW settled with the "Spots the Space Marine" author because they feared bad PR, given some of the frankly mindboggling-bordering-on-insane things that GW and its' execs have said and done over the last few years. The CHS case alone showed that GW often reaches "Hitler in the bunker"-levels of delusion in terms of how detached they are from their customer base and the general public's overall perception of their products. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 20:04 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 19:57
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Sydney Bottocks posted:See also: GW vs. Chapterhouse (which IIRC likely cost them upwards of a million dollars in attorney fees and related costs, and ended with the invalidation of a large number of GW's trademarks, the dismissal of their head legal counsel, and a paltry $25,000 slap-in-the-face "award"...which was apparently subsequently dropped as part of the eventual settlement they came to with CHS A million dollars isn't much at all for a US court case but yeah from what I know of the case, GW legal was pretty dumb, and it seems like in general they were not well prepared for US cases in general and they ended up loving up several of their existing IP rights. Also my impression is that Chapterhouse wasn't exactly beloved. Honestly from what little I know of it, the case should have been pretty straight-forward. CHS sold products explicitly using GW trademarks - as in they would write right on the website "this is a Heresey-era Terminator model," using advertising photos with their bits stuck onto GW products, etc.. Compare this to what most sellers do with their wink-wink allusions to scrunts or whatever. Their counsel deserved to lose his job if he hosed that up. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 20:12
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I just went through my 40k albums and remembered that holy poo poo, the RPGs have some sweet rear end monsters in them, that are perfectly 40k without actually being based on models. Just look at this stuff.        (This dude is horrifying and also one of my favorites)  
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May 11, 2015 20:16
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Selling after-market additions for another company's products isn't illegal, though it certainly skirts some issues. But you are perfectly free to print "for use with Apple iPhones" on your phone case and for the most part you're free and clear. Chapterhouse often behaved like a douche, but that doesn't actually mean they were breaking the law.
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May 11, 2015 20:17
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AbusePuppy posted:Selling after-market additions for another company's products isn't illegal, though it certainly skirts some issues. But you are perfectly free to print "for use with Apple iPhones" on your phone case and for the most part you're free and clear. Chapterhouse often behaved like a douche, but that doesn't actually mean they were breaking the law. IDK the facts of the case except by hearsay but supposedly they were actually describing their products as "Heresy-era Terminators" and "parts for Eldar guardians" and that sort of thing, which is a big no-no.
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May 11, 2015 20:19
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Mange Mite posted:A million dollars isn't much at all for a US court case but yeah from what I know of the case, GW legal was pretty dumb, though, and it seems like in general they were not well prepared for US cases in general and they ended up loving up several of their existing IP rights. At one point the judge told GW straight up that if they went into court instead of settling with CHS, they were going to lose a bunch of their trademarks. So of course, they went into court. This was because GW didn't want to settle with CHS, they wanted to drive them completely out of existence, in order to make an example of them. To be fair, CHS absolutely scored a big victory prior to the case, when they obtained pro bono legal representation from one of the premier intellectual property law firms in the US. This was because they saw GW's lawsuit as having absolutely massive repercussions on the third-party aftermarket parts industry (not just for plastic space mans, but for cellphones, car parts, etc.) should GW prevail. It just so happens that GW's lead counsel was either arrogant enough or dumb enough (or both) that she apparently assumed GW could prevail in court through sheer force of will. CHS was not beloved by any means (frankly, I'm completely unimpressed with the quality of their stuff, even if I were so inclined to play 40k again), but given that they were quite literally the "little guy" going up against the GW Goliath, it's not surprising that a lot of people were more than a bit thrilled to see them deal GW such a Pyrrhic legal "victory". Especially since GW themselves were more than capable of making themselves look just absolutely stupid at every turn. 
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May 11, 2015 20:20
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What GW's lawyers thought isn't necessarily relevant - they would have presented the options to the execs who would then have told them what to do. Could have been a case of pursuing something doomed which the lawyers would have just had to suck up
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May 11, 2015 20:40
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It's nice to know the British lions led by donkeys approach isn't just limited to their fictional infantryman army.
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May 11, 2015 20:44
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AbusePuppy posted:Selling after-market additions for another company's products isn't illegal, though it certainly skirts some issues. But you are perfectly free to print "for use with Apple iPhones" on your phone case and for the most part you're free and clear. Chapterhouse often behaved like a douche, but that doesn't actually mean they were breaking the law.  ) to their boldface use of GW terms on their site (not illegal but not smart either) to the genuine lovely sculpting of their products, they're not good. I'm glad they won that case because of the victory for the little guy, but I just wish it happened to a company that didn't suck. I'm glad there's a third party market out there and that there will continue to be though. These are seriously cool, and I hadn't seen most of them before. This John Blanche dude though, I really like.
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May 11, 2015 21:11
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Guy please PLEASE The thread got on track a bit and now some of you are defending GWs decsion to go for Spots the Space Marine Jesus christ... Hihohe posted:I love that art. Heres my bored at work art fixed so people can see your cool art 
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May 11, 2015 21:17
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Seriously Mange Mite. You're approaching Fismech levels of technicalities.
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May 11, 2015 21:22
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If I can find it again I'll post Sulecrist's sweet depiction of a terminator lounging in its armor on legal pad. I still think the neck and back are hosed up in it.
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May 11, 2015 21:23
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FrostyPox posted:Which makes GW's legal bullying over IP loving hilarious. A point as old as time. Sydney Bottocks posted:At one point the judge told GW straight up that if they went into court instead of settling with CHS, they were going to lose a bunch of their trademarks. So of course, they went into court. This was because GW didn't want to settle with CHS, they wanted to drive them completely out of existence, in order to make an example of them. The accelerated release schedule and break up of units into codexes (ie: Harlequins, Inquisition, etc etc.), and complete removal of units that have no models (Grey Knights, Tyranid Drop pods (for a time), Dark Eldar, etc) I personally believe is a corporate response to the less than favorable result (from GW's perspective) that the CHS lawsuit took. Like taxes - they will get their money somehow! :P
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May 11, 2015 21:35
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Ghost Hand posted:A point as old as time. I am actually glad its forced them to produce models for evrrything they list, both because it causes them to actually work for a change and prevents that bullshit standard of 'lol idk convert it'.
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May 11, 2015 21:57
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Lord Twisted posted:What GW's lawyers thought isn't necessarily relevant - they would have presented the options to the execs who would then have told them what to do. Could have been a case of pursuing something doomed which the lawyers would have just had to suck up Didn't the head of their legal team bail out during or shortly after the whole Chapterhouse case?
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May 11, 2015 21:59
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An Angry Bug posted:Seriously Mange Mite. You're approaching Fismech levels of technicalities. It's a legal term in a legal argument, the whole field is pretty much all technicalities. Seriously, GW isn't even that litigious as a company and their legal team sounds incompetent. Trademark enforcement is one of those things where you're legally obligated to do it or else you lose the trademark. I know GW is the devil or whatever but the stuff you're picking out is pretty boring if you actually know anything about it. It's likely no real publishing house would have allowed the title Spots the Space Marine to make it past their legal department (well, nobody would have published it all) except for the fact that it's self-published on Amazon and so there is no legal department or any other support whatsoever. And then a bunch of people who don't really know what's going on got mad about something that normally would have been resolved in like a month with an exchange of letters. The kind of boring business stuff that's the reason publishers exist. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 22:01
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Back to Adeptus Mechanicus talk, a great read if you want your fill of fluff is "The Lathe Worlds" supplement from Dark Heresy first edition, which gives you some of the most detailed explanations of AdMech dogma. Basically, robots are "A-Ok" in the Imperium, because Space Marines and Admech use automated defensive weapons all the time. What isn't "A-Ok" is true A.I. meaning artificial intelligence that doesn't have human elements at the root of its creation, but can think at the level or above of a human. For example, Skynet from the Terminator series is straight-up tech-heresy, because it is a super-advanced learning computer that has no biological elements at all. However, the SIBYL system from the series psychopass would not be immediately considered tech-heresy, because while it is an advanced computer system capable of higher thought, the source of its processing power are numerous linked human brains. Tech-Heresy is pretty broad, and is largely up to the interpretation of Inquisitors or high ranking members of the AdMech. Also, low gothic is pretty much any common spoken human language that isn't High Gothic, which is essentially the language of nobility and the elites. Basically, low gothic changes from world to world, while high gothic remains more static due to its common use by the powerful.
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May 11, 2015 22:05
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 Forgeworld are making the world's most expensive halloween costume.
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May 11, 2015 22:34
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^ Thats a pretty good username post combo
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May 11, 2015 22:44
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I have utmost confidence that Games Workshop vets its legal team just as thoroughly as their web design contractors.
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May 11, 2015 22:45
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It's probably super unpopular opinion but I'd like to see Forgeworld finish up with Horus Heresy and start mining the Great Crusade where the Emperor and Primarchs spread out into the Galaxy . That way we could have Xenos races etc..
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May 11, 2015 22:49
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Strength of Many posted:I am actually glad its forced them to produce models for evrrything they list, both because it causes them to actually work for a change and prevents that bullshit standard of 'lol idk convert it'. It's unfortunate for those people who already did convert characters and such. I tend to agree with you though. I think it's a short term pain for a long term gain in this case.
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May 11, 2015 22:50
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I don't think that Chapterhouse has had anything to do with their release schedule , but has had more to do with them not listing units and models in codexes that they do not have models for. I actually like the new release schedule as it is, because it makes a distinction to specific armies. Although now we've got more codexes but their pretty specialized. I'm just again hoping the Genestealer Cult rules are true, plus we could get a DEmiurg release I think that's what those guys are called.
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May 11, 2015 22:57
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I remember reading a White Dwarf article when the 5th edition SM codex came out where one of the designers was really happy that they decided to include rules for units without models so that they would have more time to make great models, lol.
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May 11, 2015 23:02
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Improbable Lobster posted:I remember reading a White Dwarf article when the 5th edition SM codex came out where one of the designers was really happy that they decided to include rules for units without models so that they would have more time to make great models, lol.
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May 11, 2015 23:04
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Hollismason posted:It's probably super unpopular opinion but I'd like to see Forgeworld finish up with Horus Heresy and start mining the Great Crusade where the Emperor and Primarchs spread out into the Galaxy . That way we could have Xenos races etc.. Eh, I can't see it happening. The plot of the Great Crusade was "Imperium stomps every xenos everywhere into the dirt, then Chaos." Xenos in the Crusade era are there to be punching bags.
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May 11, 2015 23:09
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It seems obvious that they made that change as a direct result of what happened with thunderwolves and tervigons. Rules and no modesl didn't lead to cool hobby conversions as much as 3rd parties gazumping GW.
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May 11, 2015 23:24
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FW seemed like the original third party manufacturer but then they went and did things no one was really asking for which became more popular anyway. I really just want someone to make new and dynamic Warp Spiders and Phoenix Lords goddamnit.
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May 11, 2015 23:47
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SRM posted:That was the entire design ethos behind Orks in 3rd-5th edition. They didn't even get plastic Deff Dreads or Battlewagons til way later, and the old plastic Battlewagon had been discontinued for over a decade at that point. Oh man I hated the legacy players that generated, playing with three battlewagons all wider than they were long because they built them before the new kit and "I don't want to abandon my kitwork, it's not my fault I have three solid feet of AV 14 on the table."
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May 11, 2015 23:48
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Gone are the days when White Dwarf showed you how to make a Land Speeder out of a deodorant bottle.
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May 12, 2015 00:08
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Hollismason posted:I actually like the new release schedule as it is, because it makes a distinction to specific armies. Although now we've got more codexes but their pretty specialized. I'm just again hoping the Genestealer Cult rules are true, plus we could get a DEmiurg release I think that's what those guys are called. I think that more army lists is a cool and good thing, if we set aside concerns over the design quality of those army lists. Note that in any reasonable universe, more army lists does not imply more $50 books.
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May 12, 2015 00:11
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Considering Battlewagons were in like... what... 3 or 4 EDITIONS without getting a model, despite being a major unit in many armies, I have no sympathy for a serious Tournament complaint. If the rules say "make it yourself to how YOU feel it should be" and also "A unit gets bonuses based on how you made it", literally in the same book... how can anyone complain its not balanced for tourney play??? I have a ork army. The Battlewagon thing grinds my gears. I always used Land Raiders and built a hoodah on top full of orks and guns. Doctor Borris fucked around with this message at 00:20 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 00:16
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Remember Squiggoths? Remember the "make your own" codex rules in a white dwarf for them?
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May 12, 2015 00:21
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theironjef posted:Oh man I hated the legacy players that generated, playing with three battlewagons all wider than they were long because they built them before the new kit and "I don't want to abandon my kitwork, it's not my fault I have three solid feet of AV 14 on the table." Squifferific posted:Gone are the days when White Dwarf showed you how to make a Land Speeder out of a deodorant bottle.
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May 12, 2015 00:37
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Its entirely fair for GW to loose out to 3rd party counts-as manufacturers. It's their own fault for creating those opportunities to begin with. Regardless of what you think about Chapterhouse, that suit did a massive solid for 3rd party manufacturers.
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