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Jordan7hm posted:Severing ties with parents because they disagree with how you raise your kid seems pretty overboard. Well, we're not quite severing ties, but if we did, it would be over a whoooooole bunch of other issues (actually, I don't know if you're directly replying to me or not) and not just this. It was just kind of crazy to have them blow up over us wanting him to nap at least somewhat peacefully. But I agree with you, our son missing a nap is hardly the worst thing. Also keep in mind that my wife and I didn't know anyone felt this way whatsoever until this Saturday, weeks after the baptism. Nothing was said then or since. EDIT: vvvvv You and my wife would get along swimmingly. vvvvv Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 20:25
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I had a confrontation years ago with my MIL because when she watched my oldest son while I was at work, she always said he didn't nap well for her. I could always tell he didn't when I had him back in the evening. Curious, since he was a great sleeper as a baby, and he was miserably tired after a day with her. Well, as it turned out, she kept his pack n play in the open foyer, adjoining the living room. TV on, fish tank going, her doing whatever in the nearby kitchen, my siblings-in-law coming and going, etc... Well no wonder! But I was the ridiculous one because a baby should be able to magically sleep through anything, apparently. (That stops after the first few weeks, in my experience.) I told my husband that either he was laying down the law, or I was; his choice. (He told me to go nuts.  ) So, the next time I dropped him off, I moved the pack n play myself into a back bedroom and simply said she could be a reasonable person, or she could watch him at my house only (knowing full well she'd hate that; we have stairs). "Do you sleep in the foyer, with the full household of noise and traffic around you? No? Then why do you expect my baby to do that?" Naps are sacrosanct; babies need their sleep. Asking to keep the din to a minimum isn't unreasonable at all. I don't understand the attitude (and I've seen it many times) that a baby should just be able to always be along for the ride, and do whatever, whenever--with no repercussions. Be kept awake all day, be held by 20 different people, etc... and be expected to be happy, with routine thrown right out the window. Or, that you are a control freak crazy person because you, as a parent, have a routine in the first place. May lightening strike me dead if years from now when I'm [maybe] a grandmother if I've forgotten all this and act like a shitheel too.
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May 11, 2015 20:27
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I'm sure we've done a lot of stuff that make my parents or my in laws think we are nuts. They haven't conveyed their thoughts to us though, likely because they are for the most part reasonable human beings who know how to not be an rear end in a top hat. 
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May 11, 2015 20:46
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I've heard of a lot of ridiculous MIL/FIL conflicts, but them getting salty because you asked them to be loving quiet when a baby is sleeping is next-level. Is it not common knowledge that that is the one time ever in life that everyone knows to be quiet? I was scared that when we phased Sydney off the white noise machine it'd be tough for her to sleep through noise, but I'm finding it's kind of the opposite effect so far. She can seemingly sleep through anything, including our crazy-rear end dog who barks and whines at nothing.
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May 11, 2015 20:47
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AlistairCookie posted:May lightening strike me dead if years from now when I'm [maybe] a grandmother if I've forgotten all this and act like a shitheel too. Oh my god, this. My mother-in-law was very preachy and assvisey about how to do stuff at first, but she's backed off a lot now, which makes everything much more pleasant. But my mum has actually taken it a little too far in the other direction - she's very conscious about not butting in, and letting us do stuff our way, to the point where I actually have to pressure her for advice about stuff. I'll ask how she handled a particular issue or phase, and she'll just go "Oh, I don't really remember, it's not important, you're sensible, you'll get it right. Whatever we did is probably outdated now!"
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May 11, 2015 20:53
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flashy_mcflash posted:I've heard of a lot of ridiculous MIL/FIL conflicts, but them getting salty because you asked them to be loving quiet when a baby is sleeping is next-level. Is it not common knowledge that that is the one time ever in life that everyone knows to be quiet? Counterpoint: why are you putting your baby to nap with 15 people at your house specifically for a celebration of said baby. I just think we all get very myopic about the now. Its not worth burning relationships for what in the grand scheme of things are small disagreements. It's very much the goon response to sever but I'm not sure that's very healthy. Yeah, your in laws didn't respond well, but you need to look at the bigger picture. Talk it out over dinner or something. And in any case, that's 100% the partner's call anyway. You just put up with whatever she decides to do, because if something ever happens with your relationship, she will still have a relationship with her parents, and you won't.
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May 11, 2015 21:18
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Jordan7hm posted:Counterpoint: why are you putting your baby to nap with 15 people at your house specifically for a celebration of said baby. What? Because the baby was tired and needed a nap, I'm guessing. We do this all the time. We did at the party after my baby's baptism. And more recently, for example, this year the whole extended family waited for all the napping kids to be up from naps before all the kids did the egg hunt at Easter. (7 kids there from 6 months to 9 years...the older kids waited until the youngers were all up,). I'm actually more surprised people don't understand "hey, my infant is tired and needs to nap now." I though that was pretty common knowledge/courtesy for a baby to sleep when he/she is tired. sheri fucked around with this message at 23:17 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 21:22
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Sockmuppet posted:But my mum has actually taken it a little too far in the other direction - she's very conscious about not butting in, and letting us do stuff our way, to the point where I actually have to pressure her for advice about stuff. I'll ask how she handled a particular issue or phase, and she'll just go "Oh, I don't really remember, it's not important, you're sensible, you'll get it right. Whatever we did is probably outdated now!" This isn't a completely weird thing to actually think and I keep encountering it occasionally from my parents/older relatives. Best practices change over time and people who care about you don't necessarily want to create conflict with whatever the current recommendations are. I'm not trying to say your mom is right to keep having this attitude but it can be really confusing for someone who's been out of the parenting loop for a while. Thwomp fucked around with this message at 21:41 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 21:38
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Jordan7hm posted:Counterpoint: why are you putting your baby to nap with 15 people at your house specifically for a celebration of said baby. There are more details (the ceremony went on for over two hours, when we were told it would be 30 minutes, tops), but sheri is right; he was tired and needed a nap. There's a whole history of narcissism and actual physical abuse in my wife's family, so there have always been issues. This one just kind of jumped out at us.
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May 11, 2015 23:02
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:It was kind of at ours, kind of not. See, we take our son's sleep very seriously. My in-laws, however, seem to think that we're making our son 'different' by making sure his naptimes are relatively quiet. All kids are different; some can sleep through noise, others can't. Regardless of this, though, why wouldn't you want to provide the best possible conditions for your child's sleep time? Well, in mid-April, we had his baptism, and had a bunch of people over. The actual ceremony ended up going long, cutting into his naptime, so we put him down when we got back to our place with everyone else, which was about 15-17 people. Five of those people were kids under the age of 5, so we obviously expect some noise, but we did ask to keep the screaming to a minimum while he slept. In-laws eh? Sounds very similar to how my parents reacted to me. Because times have changed in the past 25 years, my mother didn't like some of the decisions we made, including things like nap time, not just dropping in unannounced (this has always been the same, ever since I moved out), not feeding my daughter 5-6 items of sweets/crisps/chocolate etc (at the age of 2 and a half as well) in the course of an afternoon and stuff like that (there was also an issue around smoking and dogs). I don't advise to sever a major relationship like I did. TBH, it hurts me knowing that I had to do it, but in the end, you can only do so much when people willingly ignore what you ask them specifically not to do. Jordan7hm posted:Counterpoint: why are you putting your baby to nap with 15 people at your house specifically for a celebration of said baby. I get that you may be playing a bit of devils advocate, but the reality is that from what Rupert posted, he asked people to be quiet or to keep the noise down in his own home while his child had a nap. For his in-laws to then basically stop seeing their grand-child over this is completely unreasonable behaviour from anyone, let alone someone who should want the best for their grand-child. Also, to counterpoint your counterpoint, I know plenty of parents who have done the exact same thing, myself included, and not had the in-laws go schizo over it. Nap-time is precious, especially when the lack of one has a knock on effect later in the day. Also, any healthy relationship means you don't just "put up" with your partners decisions. These may be small disagreements now, and like I said above, I don't advise severing like I did, but in all honesty, I can still remember the first thing I disagreed with my mother over, and that was because she thought the house was too cold, because my little girls hands were cold. Her core temp was absolutely fine (as the trained midwives had shown us to check, rather than the old way of arms and legs, which can lead to a baby overheating!) but no, she knew best. She didn't speak to me, or see her first grandchild for 6 months because I told her she was wrong. A small thing, but basically the first pebble before the landslide of craziness that came later. What I mean by this is some people (especially some grandparents) completely lose sight of the fact that their grandchild isn't theirs to raise, and like it or not, they may be wrong about what they think. A reaction like that to being asked in someones home to be quiet while their child is napping, sets off a few alarm bells for me.
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May 11, 2015 23:13
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and 
confrontation. But if they (my in-laws) want to miss out on our son growing up, they can go ahead. I have two parents who live 9 hours away who would love to be able to spend more time with him.
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I'm definitely playing a bit of the devil's advocate there. Obviously if there are other things, those should be kept in mind. You really should try to talk it out though, and engage in professional services if the problems go that deep.lorddazron posted:Also, any healthy relationship means you don't just "put up" with your partners decisions. These may be small disagreements now, and like I said above, I don't advise severing like I did, but in all honesty, I can still remember the first thing I disagreed with my mother over, and that was because she thought the house was too cold, because my little girls hands were cold. Her core temp was absolutely fine (as the trained midwives had shown us to check, rather than the old way of arms and legs, which can lead to a baby overheating!) but no, she knew best. She didn't speak to me, or see her first grandchild for 6 months because I told her she was wrong. A small thing, but basically the first pebble before the landslide of craziness that came later. I think you absolutely "put up" with your partner's decision as to how to handle his / her family. You have input, obviously, but at the end of the day they have to live with the consequences to an extent you never will.
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May 12, 2015 00:23
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Jordan7hm posted:Counterpoint: why are you putting your baby to nap with 15 people at your house specifically for a celebration of said baby. There seem to be two polar opposite schools of thought about baby naps: there's the "dark room, white noise, nothing and nobody interferes with scheduled naps" crowd and the "take the baby along wherever and whenever and if it really needs to nap it will" crowd. Neither approach is "wrong" and I'm quite sure that billions of babies raised by each type of parent have turned out fine. The point is, though, that it's the baby's parents who decide when and how the baby will nap and it's not up to anyone else to tell them otherwise or get stupidly upset about it. All babies are different and I think it's safe to assume that the child's parents know what their own baby needs to nap. As I like to say, if you're not going to be there at 3am when the overtired baby is up and screaming then you don't get an opinion
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May 12, 2015 00:38
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kells posted:The point is, though, that it's the baby's parents who decide when and how the baby will nap and it's not up to anyone else to tell them otherwise or get stupidly upset about it. This right here is exactly how I feel. Never any judgments regarding what other people do for nap time for their own children, but we do what we do, and would prefer if her parents didn't flip out over it.
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May 12, 2015 01:13
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The thing I hate about my mom watching Arthur is she does it so much better than us. He eats all his food, goes to bed without an hour long routine, take a bath willingly, colors on the paper instead of eating his crayon. God drat you mom.
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May 12, 2015 03:03
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I am about to be a stay-at-home dad after working full time for years. Any tips/advice(ways to stay sane)? Fun things to do with a 1 and a half year old inside and out? Also can anyone recommend a good bike trailer to strap a toddler into? He loves going to parks and stuff but he's a little small yet to be playing on the playground when there are a bunch of bigger kids running around there which is a huge bummer because he loves it so much. Specific activities that saved you from going insane would be greatly appreciated.
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May 12, 2015 04:21
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Reason posted:I am about to be a stay-at-home dad after working full time for years. Any tips/advice(ways to stay sane)? Fun things to do with a 1 and a half year old inside and out? Also can anyone recommend a good bike trailer to strap a toddler into? He loves going to parks and stuff but he's a little small yet to be playing on the playground when there are a bunch of bigger kids running around there which is a huge bummer because he loves it so much. Specific activities that saved you from going insane would be greatly appreciated. As a stay-at-home mom with an 18-month old, I was doing the following with one child (I have three now): MyGym or some indoor gym equivalent indoor playgrounds - every city has at least one with a ballpit and an open floorplan full of toys, etc. parks are awesome, as long as you aren't a clean freak. Baby swings, stairs to practice on, etc. Theme parks - we live in Southern California, so my kid was doing lots of Knotts and Disneyland, since we have annual passes. 18-month olds can ride a surprising amount of rides at those places. The beach - obviously, this depends on where you live The zoo - we have annual passes and try to go as often as we can I included him in pretty much everything I did - grocery shopping, car washes, lunch with friends, etc. The more you include kids in your regular life, the more they get used to the social rules and expectations. It can be a pain, but the long-term gains have proven to be invaluable for us. And try to find a mommy/daddy & me group. We have playdates once a week, either at one of those places mentioned already or having a basic picnic lunch with some toys for the kids to play with and some balls to chase around on the grass. Good luck!
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May 12, 2015 05:00
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Reason posted:Also can anyone recommend a good bike trailer to strap a toddler into?
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May 12, 2015 05:03
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Thwomp posted:This isn't a completely weird thing to actually think and I keep encountering it occasionally from my parents/older relatives. Best practices change over time and people who care about you don't necessarily want to create conflict with whatever the current recommendations are. Oh, it's not weird at all, and I really, really appreciate that she's so good about not giving unsolicited parenting advice, it's just a little frustrating when I actually ask for her opinion, and end up having to drag it out of her. She's way more experienced at raising kids than me, obviously, so I want to learn from her, both what to do and what not to do
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May 12, 2015 11:43
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I was watching Elmo's world this morning with Arthur while getting him ready and I have to say fuuuuuuuuuuuck Grover he's the god damned worse. And there this other fucker with a mustache, some Mr. Bean ripoff, who is too stupid to live. Jesus Christ I usually like Sesame Street, but they have too many characters whose entire gimmick is being an adult stand in who is so god drat stupid kids can laugh at how stupid they are and know they're smarter. And when one of them shows up, is going to be full throttle fifteen minutes of that poo poo.
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May 12, 2015 13:08
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Reason posted:I am about to be a stay-at-home dad after working full time for years. Any tips/advice(ways to stay sane)? Fun things to do with a 1 and a half year old inside and out? Also can anyone recommend a good bike trailer to strap a toddler into? He loves going to parks and stuff but he's a little small yet to be playing on the playground when there are a bunch of bigger kids running around there which is a huge bummer because he loves it so much. Specific activities that saved you from going insane would be greatly appreciated. I'll add library story time to the other suggestions already posted. Seems like most have weekly programs -- ours has two hour-long "wee play" sessions a week for kids up to 3. My son is 9 months old and he likes to hang out and listen to stories and wave his arms and stuff. Then after 20 minutes or so they open up a big toy box and it's a half hour of mayhem during which Sam usually gets run over a few times and laughs a lot. I like that he's getting to meet the other kids and I also get a chance to talk to a few adults. I'm in a smaller town so there's not quite as much out there. I create errands or random trips just to get out of the house. Riding around Walmart in a shopping cart is his Disneyland. Fortunately we're close to the beach so that's always an option. I'll be taking note of the other suggestions, too! The day-to-day repetition is a bit of a grind sometimes.
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May 12, 2015 13:25
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greatn posted:I was watching Elmo's world this morning with Arthur while getting him ready and I have to say fuuuuuuuuuuuck Grover he's the god damned worse. And there this other fucker with a mustache, some Mr. Bean ripoff, who is too stupid to live. Jesus Christ I usually like Sesame Street, but they have too many characters whose entire gimmick is being an adult stand in who is so god drat stupid kids can laugh at how stupid they are and know they're smarter. And when one of them shows up, is going to be full throttle fifteen minutes of that poo poo. If you think Sesame Street is bad, ho boy are you in for a world of pain with some other childrens' programming. Lower your expectations and enjoy the jokes meant for the parents. VorpalBunny posted:As a stay-at-home mom with an 18-month old, I was doing the following with one child (I have three now): Seconding all of this. The best stuff to do with your kid is free, weather permitting, because they're pretty happy just getting tossed in the air, or poking a bug, or running, or doing anything that involves you. Definitely try to find a parenting group accepting of filthy penis havers, since the higher level social interaction will be a huge sanity saver for you.
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May 12, 2015 14:25
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Any ideas on how to calm down a 3 year old who refuses to go to bed without a parent at their side? This started about a month ago while my wife had our girls at her dad's house. I wasn't there because I had to work the entire time she was gone but, during that time, a bird got caught in the air duct for the dryer and apparently made quite a racket trying to get out. Unfortunately this didn't leave a good mark on our oldest, who immediately became terrified of "critters" in the walls until my father in law was able to get it out of the house. It also didn't help that the dryer was in the upstairs hall, next to the guest room they were sleeping in. Now, unless my wife and I go upstairs to her room with her and lay in/sit next to her bed, she refuses to go to bed. It's not just bed, either. We're both smokers, though we don't smoke in the house and the need for a parent to be in the immediate vicinity extends to whenever one of us steps out on the back porch or into the garage to smoke as well. She'll be perfectly fine on the couch, watching something on Nick Jr. or a movie of her choice, but god forbid I'm the only parent in the room and I get up to go to the bathroom or step out back to let my dog out and have a cigarette. It's not just whining either, over the 3-4 minutes I'll be outside it devolves into straight up terrified screaming. We're at our wits end. A month of not getting more than 3-4 hours of sleep and her doctor just tells us it will pass in time. I try to wear her out as much as possible in the evenings by taking her on long walks or to the park near our house or, weather permitting, the beach but even on those nights it's next to impossible to keep her in bed. She'll fall asleep, I'll wait 10-15 minutes and then leave the room and she's garunteed to wake up within the hour and start screaming all over again, waking her younger sister in the process.
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May 12, 2015 15:03
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Reason posted:I am about to be a stay-at-home dad after working full time for years. Any tips/advice(ways to stay sane)? Fun things to do with a 1 and a half year old inside and out? Also can anyone recommend a good bike trailer to strap a toddler into? He loves going to parks and stuff but he's a little small yet to be playing on the playground when there are a bunch of bigger kids running around there which is a huge bummer because he loves it so much. Specific activities that saved you from going insane would be greatly appreciated. The library is free. Go get a dozen new board books every week so you're not reading Moo Baa La La La for the zillionth time every morning. Also see what kind of activities they host there. Like pjhalifax said, story time/music time are a great way to kill an hour and let them interact with other babies, which is usually adorable. Farquar fucked around with this message at 16:13 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 16:11
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Thanks for all the tips everyone!
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May 12, 2015 16:41
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1.5 is definitely not too young for the playground. It's also a great place to meet other parents in your neighborhood with similar age kids.
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May 12, 2015 18:17
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Meeting other parents and arranging a get together is so great. It's the closest thing to being asked on a date.
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May 12, 2015 18:27
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Farquar posted:The library is free. Go get a dozen new board books every week so you're not reading Moo Baa La La La for the zillionth time every morning. Yes yes oh god yes. I don't know what we would do without the library. Actually I do. Reading 123 Peas over and over and over and over
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May 12, 2015 20:22
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Anyone elses kids have a screaming phase? I mean not in the form of temper tantrums or sad screaming, but more like going "raaaaarr!" just for the heck of it, like they're showing off like peacocks or something. Raaar look at us big manly... toddlers. Daycare people said if they where hoarse its because they had screamed for 1.5 hours today.
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May 13, 2015 12:46
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Not mine, but half the kids at day care. Glad he's not picking it up through influence, I don't know if I could handle it. They teach "inside voice" pretty well there though.
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May 13, 2015 12:56
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They're not doing it constantly at home hence so far it's mostly just fun.
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May 13, 2015 12:58
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His Divine Shadow posted:Anyone elses kids have a screaming phase? I mean not in the form of temper tantrums or sad screaming, but more like going "raaaaarr!" just for the heck of it, like they're showing off like peacocks or something. Raaar look at us big manly... toddlers. My daughter loves to scream. It used to be a lot worse, but one time she screamed herself hoarse(and then got mad that she couldn't scream properly) and that seems to settle her down a bit. That happened at around 8 months old.
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May 13, 2015 14:46
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Yeah, to some extent they are testing out their little vocal chords. Which is subtly different then when they scream because they're dinosaurs or monsters.
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May 13, 2015 15:57
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His Divine Shadow posted:Anyone elses kids have a screaming phase? I mean not in the form of temper tantrums or sad screaming, but more like going "raaaaarr!" just for the heck of it, like they're showing off like peacocks or something. Raaar look at us big manly... toddlers. My two feed off each other. one will let out a high pitched sceram, the other will join in, they'll go back and forth for a while until insanity ensues.
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May 13, 2015 18:01
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In our house it's more of a "how high-pitched a sound can you make"-contest. My daughter loves it when I join in, even though I'm a first soprano, so I win 
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May 13, 2015 20:20
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His Divine Shadow posted:Anyone elses kids have a screaming phase? We call it the pterodactyl impression phase. Recently I got a headache because my almost 3 yr. old and the 8 mo. old decided to trade off yells in an echo-prone bathroom at our library. Luckily we were the only ones using the room at the time.
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May 14, 2015 06:15
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LCL-Dead posted:Any ideas on how to calm down a 3 year old who refuses to go to bed without a parent at their side? Is she verbal enough you can talk about the bird some time when she isn't already freaking out? She may need to talk about it again and again, until she works through her fear. Also, my daughter is four and still tends to yell for someone when she wakes up in the night. I am getting some traction by talking to her during neutral times about how she needs to sleep, everyone needs their sleep and if she just lets her body relax, she will go right back to sleep. And, if she really needs someone, we're there, but if she's just waking up that means she should go back to sleep. And if she's bored or lonely, she has (stuffed animals) and she can give herself a hug and she has a light she can turn on if she needs to turn a light on. If she's warm, she can kick off her covers and if she's cold, she can pull them up again. All said very kindly and gently. I also tell her before going to sleep I can tell she's very tired, she'll probably go right to sleep and sleep through the night and have good dreams. When you go outside or whatever, do you let her know you're going? My daughter really wants to be glued to me, so I remind her that I need to (use the bathroom/make dinner/whatever) and we all need to (pee/eat/do other task) and I'll be right in the (kitchen/outside/bathroom) and before what she's watching is over, I'll be back.
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May 14, 2015 14:48
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Reason posted:I am about to be a stay-at-home dad after working full time for years. Any tips/advice(ways to stay sane)? Fun things to do with a 1 and a half year old inside and out? Also can anyone recommend a good bike trailer to strap a toddler into? He loves going to parks and stuff but he's a little small yet to be playing on the playground when there are a bunch of bigger kids running around there which is a huge bummer because he loves it so much. Specific activities that saved you from going insane would be greatly appreciated. You should email my husband (fellow goon MasterControl), who is also a stay at home dad (well, he's slowly returning to the workforce but has been home with our daughter for 2.5 years). We also have a kick rear end bike trailer. Do you have PM capabilities? If not I can give you his email address.
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May 15, 2015 20:21
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Double post, sorry. I need some help. My 2.5 year old daughter is very shy/clingy. She hasn't been to daycare yet but will be starting this summer. She's only ever been left with my mom or one babysitter. She plays nicely with her friends (some kids in the neighborhood she sees often) but constantly looks around to make sure I'm still there (or her dad is). We go to play groups, a music class, and library story time and she won't really leave our sides. I haven't been on a date night with my husband in ... let's not even mention how long ... because our babysitter is never available and we can't just call up someone new. I'm having panic attacks about how she'll be when we drop her off for daycare in a month. Any tips on how to get a clingy toddler more independent, or at least comfortable with meeting new people? I don't to just drop her off in a crowd of strangers and expect her to be OK, but I want her to feel more confident too.
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May 15, 2015 20:28
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frenchnewwave posted:Double post, sorry. We struggle with this a bit too (my daughter's pretty close in age to yours) and all I can suggest is to try to get her to meet and interact with as many people as possible. I don't know if this will help but the preschool we're starting with in September has a 'slow intake' policy. Maybe yours has something similar or will allow this: quote:Slow Intake Policy for Preschool Children
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May 15, 2015 21:02
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flashy_mcflash posted:Maybe yours has something similar or will allow this: Our kid started kindergarten when she was 14 months, and I honestly don't think we'd've been allowed to drop the gradual adjustment period even if we'd've wanted to. It's crazy to expect even the most independent kid to just go "Oh, I'm gonna be around strangers all day now. Cool!" I have no idea how it would be like to try to get a 2,5 year old adjusted to such a change, but I think my one big advice will still be relevant - if your daughter is more clingy with one of you, make sure it's the other parent doing the adjustment period with her. My kid has always been more... let's say "in touch with her emotions", to be kind, with me, while she's more robust with my husband. After a year in kindergarten she's still way more likely to cry when I drop her off (she cheers up again before I'm even out of earshot, so I'm not worried), yet she'll just wave cheerfully goodbuy when her dad does the drop-off. I hope it goes well for you, a good kindergarten/daycare is awesome! They have a ton of fun and learn SO MUCH!
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May 15, 2015 22:00
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