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computer parts posted:Consider what you'd need in order to build a robot that empties out every little wastebasket next to a desk. It would be difficult, but you get around the problem if you replace the worker at the desk with an automated process. wilderthanmild fucked around with this message at 23:39 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 23:33
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ElCondemn posted:Maybe right now, but automation is gutting menial jobs left and right. When was the last time you had to talk to a teller at the grocery store? Anytime I need to buy alcohol, or sudafed. Anytime the machine fucks up and needs authorization because it couldn't detect an item in the bagging area. Anytime a line to a teller is less than twice as long as the self-checkout because holy poo poo are people slow at checking themselves out. ElCondemn posted:I think people say that, but when $15/h minimum wage was proposed in Seattle a lot of my friends making close to minimum wage were angry. Not because they weren't already making $15, but because now everyone else is going to be making as much as they are. They feel like they worked harder for their $12/h than people only making $9/h, when the reality is that they both worked probably the same amount, wage is no indicator of effort. Oh my god. Did you ask them why they care more about keeping other people poor than getting a raise? What did they say?
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May 12, 2015 23:35
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:Is what you are describing a bad thing? It sounds like you are describing economic growth. According to many of the opponents of a minimum wage increase in this thread, it is a bad thing. "A minimum wage increase will bring on automation sooner" is a true statement that people have been flinging around in this thread as though it's not something that's inevitable anyway
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May 12, 2015 23:44
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ElCondemn posted:I think people say that, but when $15/h minimum wage was proposed in Seattle a lot of my friends making close to minimum wage were angry. Not because they weren't already making $15, but because now everyone else is going to be making as much as they are. They feel like they worked harder for their $12/h than people only making $9/h, when the reality is that they both worked probably the same amount, wage is no indicator of effort. When the Seattle minimum wage was proposed a friend of mine who makes ~$60k posted on facebook that it would be unfair to pay these people $15/hr because he deserves to be paid more than 3x the minimum wage. For some people it's more about having more than the other guy and nothing else.
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May 12, 2015 23:45
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computer parts posted:Do you mean "had to" as in "there's no other option" or "what I usually do"? Because I usually do talk to a teller at the grocery store, even though there is an automated option. Yes I mean "had to", but this is still the early stages. In the future you won't have a choice since all aspects will be automated and there may not even be a non-automated checkout line. computer parts posted:Again, when I do have trouble I do end up talking to a real life person here. Usually it's not preference either. The cable company didn't create their automated system because it's cool, they did it because the automated system works. They can eliminate X amount of calls with their automated systems, meaning they need Y less employees at their call center since many users never end up talking to a real person. I know comcast has an automated troubleshooting and provisioning system, but that's not even where the majority of the automation is happening. There are also plenty of cell phone companies and banks that have eliminated many call center jobs in favor of automated systems (including apps and web sites). It's happening and it's already saving companies money that would've otherwise gone to low-skilled workers. computer parts posted:This I haven't known but that's more because I'm not living in a (formerly or currently) highly industrial area. I'm sure my extended family (especially the ones in Michigan) know plenty though. For sure there are areas that will have more factory workers than others, but automation is king with manufacturing. It's especially pronounced in the automotive market since efficiency is at an all time high right now meanwhile their factory worker count has dwindled. GuyDudeBroMan posted:Is what you are describing a bad thing? It sounds like you are describing economic growth. I think it's great, I think people shouldn't have to work if it's just busy work. How many non-jobs are being created right now that could just go away? probably quite a few... I don't care if other people get free food and housing while I work, my value is not predicated on what other people are doing (at least that's what I tell myself right now). VitalSigns posted:Anytime I need to buy alcohol, or sudafed. Anytime the machine fucks up and needs authorization because it couldn't detect an item in the bagging area. They have one person to deal with all those outlier cases when previously they needed one person per checkout line, now it's one person for 8 lines. In the future when we have identity chips embedded in our eyes they'll just jam an age sensor in there and we'll get booze dispensed into our mouths directly. VitalSigns posted:Oh my god. Did you ask them why they care more about keeping other people poor than getting a raise? What did they say? I think it's just a normal response, I didn't chastise them for feeling that way. I haven't really followed up but none of them are posting on facebook about how increasing minimum wage is somehow going to make the poor even more poor.
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May 12, 2015 23:49
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wilderthanmild posted:When the Seattle minimum wage was proposed a friend of mine who makes ~$60k posted on facebook that it would be unfair to pay these people $15/hr because he deserves to be paid more than 3x the minimum wage. He sounds lazy and entitled. If he worked harder he'd make the money he deserves.
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May 12, 2015 23:55
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QuarkJets posted:According to many of the opponents of a minimum wage increase in this thread, it is a bad thing. "A minimum wage increase will bring on automation sooner" is a true statement that people have been flinging around in this thread as though it's not something that's inevitable anyway Automation isn't bad but unemployment is and we already have high unemployment in low skill demographics partially due to automation and outsourcing. Labor costs including wage are the main factor driving those to begin with. Also minimum wage could be expected to cause outsourcing or automation in places where it wouldn't happen otherwise. That's not good for anyone.
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May 13, 2015 00:40
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i would be mad as hell if i made 15 bucks and the minimum wage raised to that, and i wasnt compensated accordingly. thats absolute garbage
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May 13, 2015 00:42
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Blue Raider posted:i would be mad as hell if i made 15 bucks and the minimum wage raised to that, and i wasnt compensated accordingly. thats absolute garbage Oh no, other people make the same as me!
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May 13, 2015 00:43
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It seems extremely psychotic to say that society is incapable of ensuring everyone is able to thrive without actually saying it plainly.
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May 13, 2015 00:44
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wilderthanmild posted:Oh no, other people make the same as me! more like some jobs require speciality, or experience, or ability and shouldnt be lumped in regarding compensation with such as fry cooks minimum wage is by definition the lowest common denominator
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May 13, 2015 00:46
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Blue Raider posted:i would be mad as hell if i made 15 bucks and the minimum wage raised to that, and i wasnt compensated accordingly. thats absolute garbage Yeah, I'd probably take it up with my boss and threaten to leave for another place which will compensate me more unless I got a raise.
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May 13, 2015 00:46
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Blue Raider posted:more like some jobs require speciality, or experience, or ability and shouldnt be lumped in regarding compensation with such as fry cooks lol
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May 13, 2015 00:51
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Blue Raider posted:more like some jobs require speciality, or experience, or ability and shouldnt be lumped in regarding compensation with such as fry cooks I would be comforted to know that if I lost my job due to circumstances beyond my control, that if I had to take a job sweeping floors or flipping burgers the wage wouldn't drive me to the edge of homelessness. But I guess that's just because I care about my own welfare, instead of deriving my self-worth from some irrational concern to make sure others are poorer than I 
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May 13, 2015 00:52
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asdf32 posted:Automation isn't bad but unemployment is and we already have high unemployment in low skill demographics partially due to automation and outsourcing. Labor costs including wage are the main factor driving those to begin with. It's good for the people it's outsourced to, quality of life in places like China and India has been on the rise since this trend started. Of course everyone in the US is pissed about that, but it's no different than the feeling my friends had when they found out everyone making less than them was now going to be on the same level as them. It's part of human nature to be jealous or to think you're better than others, that's pretty basic. I personally can't wait until everyone on earth has the same earning potential, only highly skilled workers would be required to work. Maybe we'd reduce working hours to a fraction of they are now or we'd have some kind of basic income to provide for the majority who have no skills that a robot doesn't. I suppose the less optimistic outcome would be a feudal system with evil space lords who pit us against each other in a mad max style free for all.
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May 13, 2015 00:54
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table wipers making the same money as elementary school teachers itt
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May 13, 2015 00:54
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It's simple eugenics, guys. If we keep wages so low people struggle to survive, eventually we'll eliminate the poverty gene.
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May 13, 2015 00:55
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Blue Raider posted:more like some jobs require speciality, or experience, or ability and shouldnt be lumped in regarding compensation with such as fry cooks Spoken like someone who thinks they have job security in the face of automation.
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May 13, 2015 00:55
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Blue Raider posted:table wipers making the same money as elementary school teachers itt My boss stole the shirt on my back when the minimum wage laws passed! Thanks Obama!
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May 13, 2015 00:56
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asdf32 posted:Automation isn't bad but unemployment is and we already have high unemployment in low skill demographics partially due to automation and outsourcing. Labor costs including wage are the main factor driving those to begin with. Hey, you like absurd boundary condition arguments. How about this one: "It's pointless to worry about unemployment due to automation because we're just going to wind up with robots replacing all of the jobs anyway"
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May 13, 2015 00:57
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Blue Raider posted:more like some jobs require speciality, or experience, or ability and shouldnt be lumped in regarding compensation with such as fry cooks aren't you a trucking company middle-manager? you know, someone who speaks into a headset to answer drivers and get them on their way as fast as possible for 8 hours a day for a living much as a drive thru fry-cook does?
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May 13, 2015 00:57
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Rodatose posted:aren't you a trucking company middle-manager? you know, someone who speaks into a headset to answer drivers and get them on their way as fast as possible for 8 hours a day for a living much as a drive thru fry-cook does? lol no im over the guy thats over those cats
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May 13, 2015 00:59
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Job Creators can take all the credit for the labors of their employers, yet they don't have to take responsibility for their own actions. This is the opinion of Very Serious people.
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May 13, 2015 00:59
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Blue Raider posted:lol no im over the guy thats over those cats so you're a manager, and you don't like minimum wage increases thanks for your contribution
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May 13, 2015 01:01
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Rodatose posted:aren't you a trucking company middle-manager? you know, someone who speaks into a headset to answer drivers and get them on their way as fast as possible for 8 hours a day for a living much as a drive thru fry-cook does? I actually work for a company that does "telematics", specifically for trucking. Our technology allows us to send, receive and track commercial trucks. It's been in use since about 2013 in Europe and there are plenty of other companies doing the same in the US for entire fleets. His job is already on the chopping block, a lot sooner than he thinks. Everyone thinks they're too smart or valuable to be replaced, when a computer can do your job as efficiently and/or cheaper than you you will be replaced. It will happen.
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May 13, 2015 01:02
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this thread should get together and write a strongly worded email to the president
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May 13, 2015 01:03
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ElCondemn posted:I actually work for a company that does "telematics", specifically for trucking. Our technology allows us to send, receive and track commercial trucks. It's been in use since about 2013 in Europe and there are plenty of other companies doing the same in the US for entire fleets. His job is already on the chopping block, a lot sooner than he thinks. yeah you see a lot of that with elogs. its been around forever. it was roughly as disruptive as velcro on sneakers
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May 13, 2015 01:05
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quote:After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad and the vampire, he had some awful replace "strikebreaker" with "manager" icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:14 on May 13, 2015 |
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May 13, 2015 01:07
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Middle managers treating people with bald contempt and comical arrogance?
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May 13, 2015 01:14
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Blue Raider posted:yeah you see a lot of that with elogs. its been around forever. it was roughly as disruptive as velcro on sneakers The trucking/freight industry is only growing due to automation, I wouldn't expect your job to go away until the growth evens out. Eventually profit seeking and automation will increase the efficiency of your industry and only a select few jobs will remain. It's almost entirely automated right now, they just need to automate packing, loading/unloading, and driving and poof no more need for human interaction. How far away do you think those things are from being automated? Are there tools/robots already being developed to automate those actions? definitely.
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May 13, 2015 01:16
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ElCondemn posted:The trucking/freight industry is only growing due to automation also free trade agreements. once TPP goes through expect a lot more cheap goods from pacfic islands to end up in containers and then shipped from ports via cheap truckfreight Rodatose fucked around with this message at 01:20 on May 13, 2015 |
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May 13, 2015 01:17
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ElCondemn posted:The trucking/freight industry is only growing due to automation, I wouldn't expect your job to go away until the growth evens out. Eventually profit seeking and automation will increase the efficiency of your industry and only a select few jobs will remain. It's almost entirely automated right now, they just need to automate packing, loading/unloading, and driving and poof no more need for human interaction. How far away do you think those things are from being automated? Are there tools/robots already being developed to automate those actions? definitely. you know nothing about the logistics of transportation. like astoundingly nothing. we will see no development on the labor side of the equation within our lifetimes. the only thing i see happening possibly is a new fuel type how often do you think everything goes 100% according to plan in the real world? i mean you clearly have no experience in it
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May 13, 2015 01:19
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oh wow senate democrats fillibustered the TPP a few hours ago
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May 13, 2015 01:20
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Blue Raider posted:you know nothing about the logistics of transportation. like astoundingly nothing. we will see no development on the labor side of the equation within our lifetimes. the only thing i see happening possibly is a new fuel type Yeah dude, automation only does anything useful if conditions are 100% right. Why do service "industry" lardbuckets think they know anything about real industry?
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May 13, 2015 01:27
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Effectronica posted:Yeah dude, automation only does anything useful if conditions are 100% right. Why do service "industry" lardbuckets think they know anything about real industry? let me know when they automate stewardesses
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May 13, 2015 01:28
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Blue Raider posted:let me know when they automate stewardesses "you're in a johnny cab" - johnny cab
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May 13, 2015 01:30
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Rodatose posted:"you're in a johnny cab" - johnny cab this thread owns
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May 13, 2015 01:31
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Blue Raider posted:let me know when they automate stewardesses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-cost_carrier of all the jobs to parade around as impervious to capitalism 1960s era Pan Am stewardess is a really really dumb choice
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May 13, 2015 01:35
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Blue Raider posted:this thread owns Yeah i never thought we could go pages arguing against a living wage but yet here we are
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May 13, 2015 01:36
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QuarkJets posted:Hey, you like absurd boundary condition arguments. How about this one: "It's pointless to worry about unemployment due to automation because we're just going to wind up with robots replacing all of the jobs anyway" No I dont. But there is no benefit to speeding it up. And I mean that. Too much automation is inefficient and particularly stupid when workers want the job and would benefit from it. Other welfare policy doesn't do this. Also, I consistently argue that we need to divorce basic benefits from employment. That's one step on the path to dealing with the total automation you think is inevitable. That's the thing we need to speed up.
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May 13, 2015 01:38
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