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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Something that should kill him, doesn't - just like Daenarys' "fire can't kill a dragon" or something like that happens. A straight up miracle. I'm very excited for the "Jon Snow emerges from fire, hanging dong" scene
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May 15, 2015 17:15
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Festus The Fetus posted:
I wouldn't call it lazy, the first three books were meant to be a fantasy retelling of the War of Roses. For added fun, William the Conqueror's successor, nicknamed Rufus the Red, was a violent little poo poo That was 'accidentally' killed by his bannerman Lord Tirell.
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May 15, 2015 17:33
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Something that should kill him, doesn't - just like Daenarys' "fire can't kill a dragon" or something like that happens. A straight up miracle. Sub-Zero and Scorpion show up and do brutal ice and fire fatalities on Jon and he just gets up and dusts himself off.
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May 15, 2015 18:07
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:For added fun, William the Conqueror's successor, nicknamed Rufus the Red, was a violent little poo poo That was 'accidentally' killed by his bannerman Lord Tirell.
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May 15, 2015 18:16
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hiddenmovement posted:Strange, Ser Barriston seemed to think it carried a fair bit of weight Ser Barristan was, among others things, a knight who was perfectly willing to stand by while his king brutalized people. He was a lovely knight, and kind of a bad kingsguard. He was a marginally better man than Meryn Trant, basically. quote:He's not making an eternal declaration. He is making one in regards to his next of kin, and only his next of kin. This is something that has been done all the time by everyone who ever died ever. Stating that your son is too young to rule has happened countless times throughout history, and naming a regent in the interim is usually what happens. And yes, you DO have to listen to it, if we are talking in strictly legal terms (which you are), because it's the mans last will and testament. You don't have to listen to it if the man named in it is plotting against the king, which Cersei happened to know for a fact he was. Ned came to her and said as much. You don't let a traitor walk into the room with a document he wrote and lay claim to the realm quote:Ned had not accused anyone of anything publically until Cersei ripped up a formal legal document and threatened him. In any case, he has proof that they aren't Roberts. We spent several episodes investigating this point. Entire characters are introduced just to highlight this point. Basically everyone that he's aired this assertion to believes it. It will probably stand up quite well under closer examination, which is why Joffrey (Cersei?) goes on a baby murder spree. There's a goddamn sorceress floating around who can basically smell Baratheon bastards at 100 paces. It is really easily proveable that they aren't his. But yeah hey there's clearly no evidence off with the traitors head tia. What proof? Their hair color? Cersei confessed to him in private; if pressed publicly she would just deny it. He has no proof besides his conviction. That's enough for lots of people, but it's not proof. They kill the bastards after the wars start, because at that point, people are challenging his legitimacy and having a potential figurehead that close by is dangerous. We also didn't know Melisandre could sniff royal bastards out by that point, and we also don't know that her ability is limited to Baratheons only (she wanted Jon real bad). Also, who the gently caress besides Stannis would trust a foreign, murderous, heretic witch to depose their monarchy? quote:The issue I have with someone claiming Ned committed treason is that it's a fundamental misreading of the character and the world he inhabits. Ned is a goody two shoes moral absolutist who follows the rules and does the right thing no matter what. He can just tell Robert that the kids aren't his and be done with it. He doesn't because he loves his friend and would to deliver such cruel news on his deathbed. He can just get Renly and the Tyrells to carve the kings guard apart and stick Renly on the throne. He doesn't do it, because that wouldn't be right because Stannis is the rightful heir. He can just align with Littlefinger. He doesn't do that for much the same reason. The irony is that Ned is a wholly good and law abiding man, who would probably freak out at filing his taxes late. He would never commit treason against the realm, yet he is executed for treason. Intent doesn't make treason, actions do. That's why Ned calls Jaime Kingslayer like a slur, even though he and Robert were on a campaign that would eventually have needed to end in exactly that way. Jaime did a noble, necessary thing, but his actions define his crime. Ned did a lot of treasonous things. Tomahawk posted:Sub-Zero and Scorpion show up and do brutal ice and fire fatalities on Jon and he just gets up and dusts himself off. The song of Ice and Fire is just a list of the women Jon sleeps with: a redhead and a platinum blond
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May 15, 2015 18:25
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Bobo the Red posted:Ser Barristan was, among others things, a knight who was perfectly willing to stand by while his king brutalized people. He was a lovely knight, and kind of a bad kingsguard. He was a marginally better man than Meryn Trant, basically.
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May 15, 2015 18:31
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Tomahawk posted:Sub-Zero and Scorpion show up and do brutal ice and fire fatalities on Jon and he just gets up and dusts himself off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enVToQC-cB0
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May 15, 2015 18:32
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JT Jag posted:"The task of a Kingsguard is to defend his King, not to judge his actions." - Barristan Selmy I wouldn't get roped into responding to that guy if I were you, take it from someone who has learned his lesson Fight Club Sandwich posted:I'm very excited for the "Jon Snow emerges from fire, hanging dong" scene Without a shred of irony, this. hiddenmovement fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 18:38
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JT Jag posted:"The task of a Kingsguard is to defend his King, not to judge his actions." - Barristan Selmy A convenient excuse for standing by and being a passive participant in rape and murder. Jaime's a huge rear end in a top hat who tried to kill a kid, and he's still a far better man than any other kingsguard. Knights are supposed to protect the weak, and the kingsguard are meant to be the paragons of knighthood, but they just stood there and watched violence on violence on violence.
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May 15, 2015 18:39
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Bobo the Red posted:A convenient excuse for standing by and being a passive participant in rape and murder. Are they knights? Yes, but that comes second when they take the white, because the Kingsguard are fantasy Secret Service agents. They need to always be willing to take a bullet, or in this case a sword, for their liege. JT Jag fucked around with this message at 18:47 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 18:45
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Potato Knight Kid will right the wrongs of the Kingsguard, except he will probably be killed by a wilding next episode.
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May 15, 2015 18:45
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Fight Club Sandwich posted:I'm very excited for the "Jon Snow emerges from fire, hanging dong" scene  Spoiler warning  http://i.imgur.com/oWlqdBC.png
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May 15, 2015 19:00
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pasaluki posted:This is actually a really interesting post. I don't think they could have prevented Joffrey from being a sadist, but they did have a hand in making him as incompetent as he was. Joffrey had fits of competence such as recognizing the threat Dany might pose, and his idea for a standing trained army vs conscription that history has shown to be a good idea. He also expressed interest in going to small council meetings and learning about what was happening around the realm. He was a spoiled evil rotten little poo poo but every time he tried to be more than that he was undermined. I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't give Joffrey credit for competence because of these things. More of a broken clock scenario than anything else.
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May 15, 2015 19:50
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JT Jag posted:The sole, sacred task of the Kingsguard is to defend their king from threats. Their place is not to judge. It's why Jaime was reviled as the Kingslayer: he broke his oath to kill Aerys. Anyone else, it wouldn't have mattered. According to Jaime at least, they do actually have conflicting duties, but I guess it's probably easier for them to act like only one vow they made matters  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpD47mmlei4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ5oRxgphRc
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May 15, 2015 19:54
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Bobo the Red posted:According to Jaime at least, they do actually have conflicting duties, but I guess it's probably easier for them to act like only one vow they made matters Don't get me wrong. What Jaime did, killing Aerys to keep him from burning Kings Landing down? It was absolutely the morally correct thing to do. I don't blame him at all. And yet it is undeniable that he broke his vows in order to do the right thing.
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May 15, 2015 19:56
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JT Jag posted:Note that this opinion on the duty of the Kingsguard is coming from Jaime Lannister, person noted for killing a king, so his opinion might not be unbiased?
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May 15, 2015 19:58
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feedmyleg posted:If Lyanna and Rhaegar are John's parents, who alive right now would even know? What proof could be presented? As presented from the show, they definitely implied Littlefinger knows more than he lets on. Also, Bran is hanging out under some kind of psychic Yggdrasil with Radagast, who's been "watching everyone all their lives." Also, Melisandre's smoke ovaries swell for King's blood, and she sees magical visions constantly. Any of these could take care of it.
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May 15, 2015 20:14
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Melissandre almost certainly knows. She could pick that Gendry was Baratheon's bastard on nothing more than her gut. "You know nothing
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May 15, 2015 20:20
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Bobo the Red posted:A convenient excuse for standing by and being a passive participant in rape and murder. Kingsguard are supposed to guard the king. Joffrey didn't die on Barriston's watch. Jus sayin'.
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May 15, 2015 20:28
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hiddenmovement posted:Melissandre almost certainly knows. She could pick that Gendry was Baratheon's bastard on nothing more than her gut. I could see that, if she knows she might have said something to Stannis since show Stannis had that line about not believing the bastard cover story.
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May 15, 2015 20:33
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BubbleGoose posted:Kingsguard are supposed to guard the king. Joffrey didn't die on Barriston's watch. Jus sayin'. But Robert and the Mad King both did, so... Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I could see that, if she knows she might have said something to Stannis since show Stannis had that line about not believing the bastard cover story. If Melisandre says something to Stannis, she puts him in the position of having to rather hastily decide what to do about the bastard heir to the Targaryen throne who is also the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and the only other person focused on what Stannis believes is the true threat to Westeros. If she says nothing, she knows Jon will be there when they get back. Seems like an easy choice. Also she's evil. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 20:52 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 20:44
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Bobo the Red posted:But Robert and the Mad King both did, so... Some blame for Robert's death does fall on him though, he was part of Robert's hunting party when he was fatally wounded. That said Cersei did rig that trip so that Robert would face a boar while he was incapable of properly defending himself, and if it failed she would have had him killed some other way.
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May 16, 2015 00:05
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JT Jag posted:Barristan wasn't in King's Landing at the time when Jaime killed Aerys, he was fighting in the Battle of the Trident alongside Rhaegar. The Kingsguard are responsible for defending all members of the Royal Family, just the king foremost. Well, it's not like Rhaegar survived either. Or really any of the people who had Kingsguards with them. I'm not sure Cersei trying to murder Robert really excuses Selmy from having failed to protect him, since saving the king from being murdered is literally his job. Or as you put it, the "sole, sacred task of the Kingsguard is to defend their king from threats" Edit: While reading up on this, I stumbled on a very mild book spoiler about Selmy that made me feel better about this whole thing. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 00:50 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 00:43
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My Q-Face posted:You know, if there's one Game of Throne-ism I absolutely hate, it's this. It's opium, we get it, why the gently caress do we need five syllables to allude to it, every single time it's brought up? Call it Laudanum, call it Soma, call it Somniferum, call it Opium, call it Poppy Tears, call it Poppy Milk, even. Call it anything else, but for fucks sakes Milk of the Poppy sounds so god-damned pretentious-fantasy-novelist-pretentious. This is probably the one time I'm gonna stick up for GRRM but opium, laudnaum and somniferum are obviously Latin-based and there's no real Latin equivalent in ASoIaF. The word opium even comes from the originally Greek words meaning "juice of [the plant]. Also the term "milk of [x]" has been used in various other scientific applications, so it's not really that "fantasy," in my opinion.
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May 16, 2015 00:56
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Was there a reason for the Littlefinger's actor to switch from a normal speaking voice to the retarded whispery affected act he's got going now? I don't recall one, and it really has been bothering me for a while.
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May 16, 2015 01:09
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Bobo the Red's posts are really making me want to read a fantasy revisionist' historians take on A Game of Thrones. I want Lannister and Baratheon descendants arguing endlessly over whether it would be appropriate to exhume the body of King Joffrey I to test his paternity. I want to know what kind of Princes in the Tower-style mythology would develop around Arya, and how Margary's rapid succession of husbands would be interpreted. Given how much happened off the books and behind the scenes, the entire series mustlook incredibly bizarre to an outsider. Massive feudal institutions have disappeared over night, elites are dropping dead everywhere, half the country is awash in refugees, there's rumors of an invasion coming from the East, the Wall's under siege, and nobody understands why. It should be no wonder that people are flocking to the Church. At least they claim to have some answers. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 01:12 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 01:09
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Thank you guys for eclipsing Bobo the Red's endless wave of terrible opinions. Joffery did nothing wrong is the single most  thing this thread has ever produced.
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May 16, 2015 01:28
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counterfeitsaint posted:Thank you guys for eclipsing Bobo the Red's endless wave of terrible opinions. Joffery did nothing wrong is the single most
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May 16, 2015 01:32
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counterfeitsaint posted:Thank you guys for eclipsing Bobo the Red's endless wave of terrible opinions. Joffery did nothing wrong is the single most I actually enjoy his posts for being so off the wall contrarian.
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May 16, 2015 01:36
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So I'm watching the history and lore of westeros stuff on youtube, and I just got to the video about House Reed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKZrZXIYiBM Goddamn, can we see this poo poo on the show at some point please?? Everything in that video sounds awesome
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May 16, 2015 02:08
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Mm
Abe Froman fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 02:10
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Abe Froman posted:If Jon is the son of Rhaeger and Lyanna is he still a bastard? I get in the sense he is a the child of two people that aren't married, but unlike Ramsey, Jon is the son of nobility. Unless Rhaegar and Lyanna secretly married one another at some point.
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May 16, 2015 02:13
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JT Jag posted:Jon Rivers, live at the Grand Ol' Opry
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May 16, 2015 02:17
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JT Jag posted:He'd still be a bastard, but his name should be Jon Rivers, not Jon Snow. I think if you could walking out of fire completely unharmed with your cock out, it doesn't matter if you are a bastard or not.
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May 16, 2015 02:22
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Vanderdeath posted:This is probably the one time I'm gonna stick up for GRRM but opium, laudnaum and somniferum are obviously Latin-based and there's no real Latin equivalent in ASoIaF. The word opium even comes from the originally Greek words meaning "juice of [the plant]. Also the term "milk of [x]" has been used in various other scientific applications, so it's not really that "fantasy," in my opinion. Wait, aren't "septs" and "high septon" derived from the latin number seven?
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May 16, 2015 02:42
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Kanine posted:Wait, aren't "septs" and "high septon" derived from the latin number seven? Any other time I heard the term sept in a fantasy setting it was related to the Irish/Scottish term http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sept Although even that wiki articles states it could still be Latin. And you're etymology does make more sense in this context. Edmund Lava fucked around with this message at 03:02 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 03:00
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Vanderdeath posted:This is probably the one time I'm gonna stick up for GRRM but opium, laudnaum and somniferum are obviously Latin-based and there's no real Latin equivalent in ASoIaF. The word opium even comes from the originally Greek words meaning "juice of [the plant]. Also the term "milk of [x]" has been used in various other scientific applications, so it's not really that "fantasy," in my opinion. Valyrian is treated as the Latin equivalent.
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May 16, 2015 03:12
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JT Jag posted:He'd still be a bastard, but his name should be Jon Rivers, not Jon Snow. I don't know think so. I think bastard names are usually more about where you're raised, not who your father is. And the Targaryens aren't from the Riverlands, anyway.
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May 16, 2015 03:52
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Bastards from the Crownlands (the area surrounding and including Kings Landing) are given the surname Waters. Behold, the one true King of Westeros: 
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May 16, 2015 04:00
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Maarak posted:Bastards from the Crownlands (the area surrounding and including Kings Landing) are given the surname Waters. First of his name. Long may he reign.
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May 16, 2015 04:20
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