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She was surprised because she murdered Patrick by throwing a box at his head at the speed of sound and it went through his head.
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May 16, 2015 02:08
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Rexxed posted:She threw it and hit him and was surprised because they both knew she was going to throw it at him. Does that make it suicide?
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May 16, 2015 02:11
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Niton posted:Does that make it suicide? By superhero.
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May 16, 2015 02:14
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Re-reading it again now, I'm actually not 100% sure she DIDN'T just imagine throwing it and not actually do it. Christ. I guess we'll find out on Tuesday.
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May 16, 2015 02:18
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Inside the box was the cure for racism but Allison broke it. 
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May 16, 2015 02:26
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nimby posted:A ring? Would he even do that earnestly, or would it be a manipulation tactic?
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May 16, 2015 02:32
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idonotlikepeas posted:Re-reading it again now, I'm actually not 100% sure she DIDN'T just imagine throwing it and not actually do it. Christ. I guess we'll find out on Tuesday. Yeah I'm also kinda unsure how to read any of this. Or gently caress, the two pages before this either. Like...one moment she's trying to figure out why he's deliberately trying to provoke hatred, the next she drops that line of inquiry entirely and engages his statements at face value. Moreover, why is it being treated as a noteworthy thing that he can't read his own mind? I also can't see my own eyes without some form of aid. Edit: I suppose her switching gears could be adequately explained as "she mad".
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May 16, 2015 02:53
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I think this whole sequence would be much improved if it took place in it's own chapter. They could have ended this one with Allison seeing Mary after she killed that guy and it's a decent starting point for an investigation. Because right now I don't care about Patrick having an existential crisis and Allison realizing that she's been in a relationship with some jerk.
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May 16, 2015 05:03
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Captain Oblivious posted:Moreover, why is it being treated as a noteworthy thing that he can't read his own mind? I also can't see my own eyes without some form of aid. I think the idea is that with other people he can't just see their thoughts, he can see what makes them tick and discenrn all of the unconscious motivations that drive them. He's so used to all that being laid bare, the fact that he himself is driven by things he's not aware of isn't something he has a proper toolkit to deal with and self-analyse.
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May 16, 2015 07:27
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MikeJF posted:I think the idea is that with other people he can't just see their thoughts, he can see what makes them tick and discenrn all of the unconscious motivations that drive them. He's so used to all that being laid bare, the fact that he himself is driven by things he's not aware of isn't something he has a proper toolkit to deal with and self-analyse. None of what you just said is incompatible with what I'm saying. I get all that. What I don't understand is building this up as some kind of revelation. No poo poo he can't read his own mind, who ever thought he could? It would be surprising if he could.
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May 16, 2015 07:34
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I think the revelation was that he's way less self-aware than most people, because he's so used to looking straight under the surface he's never reflected on his own thoughts properly like most people do. And so it turns out that what seemed to be a perfectly in-control person is really a mess of uncontrolled neuroses and emotional drives.
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May 16, 2015 07:51
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I'm just amazed that the supposedly in control and conscientious protagonist just threw something hard enough to seriously hurt someone, like a complete rear end in a top hat, because she doesn't like their opinions. I mean seriously, gently caress Allison; I don't know how I'm supposed to see her actions as remotely sympathetic or justified. And why the gently caress does she get to order around Patrick like this? Why the hell would he tell her anything that she wants to know? She can't reveal his identity without revealing that she was complicit in his escape, and good luck convincing people that she didn't know about his murders and poo poo. She has no leverage, probably less than none since he has money and friends and she has a somewhat tarnished public image. She reveals him and best case she looks guilty of aiding and abetting a terrorist, worst case she just looks crazy. I guess she'll just go on a rampage or something, like the psychopath she really seems to be. Her actions here reframe her throughout the rest of the comic, she said that there were some differences between her and Cleaver, but all I can see at this point is that she looks normal and restricted herself to government approved killings. She's less Superman and more the Comedian.
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May 16, 2015 08:32
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She's the Comedian who thinks she is superman, or at the very least tries very hard to be something like it.
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May 16, 2015 11:00
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She tried to figure out why he was intentionally trying to make her angry, then realized midway through that he was an rear end in a top hat and this made her angry enough that she stopped caring about his motivations. Good job! As for why Alison can give him orders, it is because he literally cannot stop her from doing anything. He tried to topple the us government with giant robots and supervillain henchmen and she essentially shut him down solo. Patrick only told her about that big mysterious conspiracy after she cornered him. But to be fair, it isn't like anyone can forcibly stop Alison from doing anything.
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May 16, 2015 11:41
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Allison is actually pretty self aware about her lack of moral high ground, she doesn't claim any more than that she tries to do better. It's one of the reasons that she doesn't just kill her way to world peace - she's not sure she's right. She's not immune to doing dumb poo poo or having sudden irrational impulses that she regrets later. She doesn't think she's Superman at all, and comparisons to the Comedian are way off the mark - Allison doesn't have a track record of rape, war crimes, murder, or sustained quasi-police brutality.
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May 16, 2015 11:52
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akulanization posted:I'm just amazed that the supposedly in control and conscientious protagonist just threw something hard enough to seriously hurt someone, like a complete rear end in a top hat, because she doesn't like their opinions. I mean seriously, gently caress Allison; I don't know how I'm supposed to see her actions as remotely sympathetic or justified. And why the gently caress does she get to order around Patrick like this? Why the hell would he tell her anything that she wants to know? She can't reveal his identity without revealing that she was complicit in his escape, and good luck convincing people that she didn't know about his murders and poo poo. She has no leverage, probably less than none since he has money and friends and she has a somewhat tarnished public image. She reveals him and best case she looks guilty of aiding and abetting a terrorist, worst case she just looks crazy. I guess she'll just go on a rampage or something, like the psychopath she really seems to be. Her actions here reframe her throughout the rest of the comic, she said that there were some differences between her and Cleaver, but all I can see at this point is that she looks normal and restricted herself to government approved killings. She's less Superman and more the Comedian. This is actually something that gets discussed every so often in the thread, usually whenever someone gets offended at something the protag does. And that's Allison is totally an rear end in a top hat and a fuckup. She's got anger management issues and is so used to dealing with problems with direct, overwhelming force that she's not really well equipped not to. It's something acknowledged a lot in the comic, too. That's not even the problem, or a problem. The problem is that the pacing for this chapter is just plain bad.
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May 16, 2015 12:35
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Her face is going to be red when she gets back out and like several hundred more rapists have been killed the entire time she's been in there.
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May 16, 2015 13:14
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akulanization posted:I'm just amazed that the supposedly in control and conscientious protagonist just threw something hard enough to seriously hurt someone, like a complete rear end in a top hat, because she doesn't like their opinions. I mean seriously, gently caress Allison; I don't know how I'm supposed to see her actions as remotely sympathetic or justified. And why the gently caress does she get to order around Patrick like this? Why the hell would he tell her anything that she wants to know? She can't reveal his identity without revealing that she was complicit in his escape, and good luck convincing people that she didn't know about his murders and poo poo. She has no leverage, probably less than none since he has money and friends and she has a somewhat tarnished public image. She reveals him and best case she looks guilty of aiding and abetting a terrorist, worst case she just looks crazy. I guess she'll just go on a rampage or something, like the psychopath she really seems to be. Her actions here reframe her throughout the rest of the comic, she said that there were some differences between her and Cleaver, but all I can see at this point is that she looks normal and restricted herself to government approved killings. She's less Superman and more the Comedian. "Because she doesn't like their opinions" is kind of underselling the extent to which Patrick is a monster. Alison is a dick sometimes. Patrick is a mass murderer.
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May 16, 2015 15:58
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I have no idea what expression is supposed to be in the 2nd to last panel. Surprise is the only thing that comes to mind, but that can't be it, can it?
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May 16, 2015 18:05
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I think it's supposed to be like regretful "oooh, that may have been too much" but I'm not sure.
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May 16, 2015 18:11
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I think she was shocked that she lost control like that. She's Allison, she's normally hyper-aware of how much she could hurt someone.
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May 16, 2015 18:12
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T.G. Xarbala posted:This is actually something that gets discussed every so often in the thread, usually whenever someone gets offended at something the protag does. Well, in the past it has been a lot easier to see how Allison might have made the mistake. Or she took a step back from the edge. Like with the anti-metahuman mob, decent people had just died to prevent someone from helping others. Or with the rapist she at least restrained herself from permanent damage. Often she was in a situation where action was required and while her actions might not have been appropriate, or the best course, it could at least be justified as a response from a person who has a toolbox consisting almost solely of violence who wanted to do the right thing. This is different, no matter how much of a monster Patrick is she knew most of his crimes before going into this room. And the ones that she just learned of she didn't care about until it was revealed he wasn't mature enough from her perspective. This is a reaction not to his crimes but to his opinions. She isn't even willing to punish him, legally, for what he's done at this point, but she's okay with hurting him. It goes beyond being angry to being just plain nasty. She decided to hurt him because she wanted to and could. With that in mind it reframes the rest of her questionable actions. I was willing to be charitable with them as I said before, but now I think that she's just a bully that likes to hurt people and exert power over them. In her heart of hearts, she is Cleaver with better PR. I feel that this violence crossed a line, she didn't need to protect anyone or save anyone, she still isn't willing to bring him to justice (which implies that she still doesn't think he should be brought in, hell she doesn't care if the conspiracy is something he made up to snow her) she just wanted to hurt him, so she did. That attitude is very dangerous for a demigod. Captain Oblivious posted:"Because she doesn't like their opinions" is kind of underselling the extent to which Patrick is a monster. Alison is a dick sometimes. Patrick is a mass murderer. As I said above, she still isn't willing to bring him to justice, and what causes her to finally lose it with him are not his completely heinous actions but her disagreement and disappointment with his opinions on why he does things.
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May 16, 2015 19:03
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is this the same chapter where she talked to Brad
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May 16, 2015 19:32
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akulanization posted:Well, in the past it has been a lot easier to see how Allison might have made the mistake. Or she took a step back from the edge. Like with the anti-metahuman mob, decent people had just died to prevent someone from helping others. Or with the rapist she at least restrained herself from permanent damage. Often she was in a situation where action was required and while her actions might not have been appropriate, or the best course, it could at least be justified as a response from a person who has a toolbox consisting almost solely of violence who wanted to do the right thing. Cleaver with better PR. Did you miss the chapter where Alison herself said literally exactly that? Her capacity and PROPENSITY for violence is something she's more than aware of. Personally I'm waiting for the next page because I'm not even sure what this page is trying to convey. I'm 50/50 on whether or not this is depicting her imagining throwing it at him and being shocked at the impulse, or having actually done it and shocked at the results in some fashion.
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May 16, 2015 19:55
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akulanization posted:Well, in the past it has been a lot easier to see how Allison might have made the mistake. Or she took a step back from the edge. Like with the anti-metahuman mob, decent people had just died to prevent someone from helping others. Or with the rapist she at least restrained herself from permanent damage. Often she was in a situation where action was required and while her actions might not have been appropriate, or the best course, it could at least be justified as a response from a person who has a toolbox consisting almost solely of violence who wanted to do the right thing. This time, the only provocation was her mind reader crush saying everything he could to make her as furious as possible.  The point of the Cleaver conversation wasn't that Alison was better than Cleaver in some way. It was that she was lucky enough to have the kind of support and guidance where she could channel her unbelievable capacity for violence into constructive means. She straight up admits to fantasizing about mass murder in that conversation. Your tut-tut what a bully moral scolding is entirely missing a big point of the comic. Alison isn't supposed to be some superman-ish inhuman paragon of virtue. Everyone has to deal with the temptation of violence on some level, and for Alison, it's just greatly exaggerated in magnitude. Violence is a direct path to getting what you want, and it's an assertion of power in a very visceral way. Alison has grappled with it the whole comic. Interrogating the ratman. Both her conversations with Cleaver. Beating up the vending machine when Patrick rejects her. Yelling at the crowd in front of the hospital. Wrapping her I-beam crushing hands around a civilian's throat. And now, bouncing a box off Patrick's face. Has she crossed the line? I don't really think so, but she certainly hasn't crossed the line so hard it retroactively changes everything about how you should view her.
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May 16, 2015 19:56
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How well does she think her two year ultimatum is going to work, anyway? She only found him the first time because he was wandering around in a shiny costume with an army of robots. Scary as she is, she can still only enforce her whims at punching range. If Patrick has anything resembling a survival instinct, this'll be the last time she ever sees him in person. So good job at assaulting him but then letting him go, I guess?
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May 16, 2015 19:59
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He runs a very prominent corporation. He's not a hard man to find sans secret identity and he is aware of the fact that he is basically at her mercy and always has been since she kicked down his door so many years ago.
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May 16, 2015 20:14
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Wittgen posted:This time, the only provocation was her mind reader crush saying everything he could to make her as furious as possible. So the judge was justified hitting his wife? I'm sure he was angry in a way that made sense to him. Maybe we should expect more of the protagonist with "a strong sense of social justice" than we expect from an abusive rear end in a top hat? Captain Oblivious posted:He runs a very prominent corporation. He's not a hard man to find sans secret identity and he is aware of the fact that he is basically at her mercy and always has been since she kicked down his door so many years ago. No he doesn't, he's a secretary officially. He could be fired for cause, "Brought his superhero girlfriend to my office and she wrecked my desk." tomorrow and operate entirely from the shadows. She would never find him. Even if she were to go public, she has no evidence and Patrick has a huge amount of money and influence at his fingertips. If he wanted to he could probably get the government to fudge whatever tests they might run, and just let the whole thing die down as she looks more and more unreasonable. The only thing she could do would be try to kill him, she might succeed but only at the cost of completely destroying her own reputation. He isn't at her mercy, even if she could somehow get the accusation to stick she would go down with him. She is a party to a host of his crimes ever sense she aided in his escape.
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May 16, 2015 20:31
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yes, i'm sure both characters in this scene are totally rational actors
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May 16, 2015 20:51
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Or she's still hoping he won't be a poo poo.
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May 16, 2015 21:07
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akulanization posted:So the judge was justified hitting his wife? I'm sure he was angry in a way that made sense to him. Maybe we should expect more of the protagonist with "a strong sense of social justice" than we expect from an abusive rear end in a top hat? You seem to be operating under the misconception that A) Patrick is Jason Bourne and B) that money is literally magic. Mega Girl was a government sponsored war machine. The idea that she doesn't have enough contacts and credibility with the government to get Menace of all people locked up and/or detained for the foreseeable future is more than a little implausible short of new evidence. So yes he absolutely is at her mercy. His freedom was contingent upon her respect the moment she found him and the dossiers. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 22:25 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 22:23
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Captain Oblivious posted:You seem to be operating under the misconception that A) Patrick is Jason Bourne and B) that money is literally magic. He's more Osama Bin Laden than Jason Bourne, but the US government couldn't find him for years while he led a violent insurrection against them, so yeah he can probably evade someone who can't track down a lone wolf murderer. Especially because he won't be leading attacks on the continental US this time. If you think that a mindreader who knows where all the bodies are buried and probably has sway with more than half of congress can't get what he wants with regard to the results of some testing by the government then you severely underestimate the power of money. Mega Girl has as many people hating her as helping her at any given time, remember that she was and is a self absorbed rear end in a top hat. If she had a bunch of government contracts she could trust to help her do whatever then why was she unable to use them to get help to find Mary? You seem to think that the government would suspend due process on behalf of Megagirl and a moment's notice but that it can't be influenced by the guy who's whole gimmick is influencing people? Also you want to ignore that when she says. "I know who menace is and where he is." The response is going to be, "How? When did you learn this?" And when she can't answer that without incriminating herself what do you honestly think they are going to do? This is a person who threatens to kill people on the evening news, she doesn't exactly have a lot of innate credibility. I'm sorry but unless Allison can see Patrick she can't do poo poo to him. She hasn't had him at her mercy since they were both in that room. The only thing that will make him comply with her is a sense of guilt and residual goodwill. Which would probably evaporate in the wake of getting his gift fastballed right into his face.
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May 16, 2015 22:59
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Allison and Patrick missed the opportunity to have a pleasant and cute conversation where Patrick is the only one physically talking.
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May 17, 2015 04:56
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Jackard posted:is this the same chapter where she talked to Brad
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May 17, 2015 17:45
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Strong Female Protagonist: Throwing Trademarked, Ceramic Coffee Cups at
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May 19, 2015 09:36
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Wow. Patrick is a sad sad man.
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May 19, 2015 09:38
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That fun crushing moment after you realise you've destroyed literally the only friendship you've ever had. Oh Paddy.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 10:14 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 10:12
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Holy poo poo, we're finally out of that damned office.
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May 19, 2015 11:11
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And she's flying.
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May 19, 2015 11:20
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She's flown before. When she crushed that dude with a robot then flew off. Synthbuttrange fucked around with this message at 12:10 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 12:08
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