|
I love that guy
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 00:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 13:48 |
|
|
It's funny how it's a repeated theme that it's always the Russians with the craziest poo poo but here's a soccer hooligan simulation in a cage, with MMA gear, and even refs... ManOfTheYear posted:Huh. How long does it usually take to get the skills on a levewel where you can win with a mediocore/lovely cardio? James Toney didn't "do no conditioning". He prepared for his fights by more or less simply sparring a ton (which you can figure out if you listen to him speak these days.) Not that sparring is easy: it's a grueling exercise in on itself. But he was one of the best, most talented boxers of his generation, his hands we're simply lightning merely on genetics, must have sparred 100 000 rounds or something which just made his hands faster and his boxing-brain more tuned to the game, had 35 or so amateur fights and 90 as a pro most of which he won. Unfortunately he accumulated a lot of brain damage on the way because of this method like I said, though. Jean-Charles Skarbowsky beat up TUF contestants while more or less drunk, yes. I think his first sparring/training session witht he guys, he supposedly had directly come from a 16 hour flight he spent more or less drinking and smelled strongly of vodka. He also mixed cool looking alcoholic drinks and smoked cigarettes every night at the house (I remember GSP telling the guys "they do this in Thailand but don't get confused, we can't do what they do over there"). He was also a generational talent, a legend, one of first farang to win champioships in Thailand and had more then 100 professional fights and retired by the time he was tooling upcoming hopeful MMA guys in striking. In Dungeons and Dragons terms, he was level 40 while the guys he threw around the cage were level 5 or 6. As for the question, you can't really mix, say, running cardio or fighting (striking or grappling) cardio. Different things. People who easily take 25km runs on any random morning can gas out in a few minutes of boxing if they are not accustomed to boxing. With experience you learn how to use what energy you have correctly. A jamestoney will be relaxed as gently caress like he was sitting on a café because his unlimited experience in the ring with guys who are trying to hit his head off his shoulders. A marathon runner not accustomed to getting beat up will be tense as gently caress and spend tons of energy just standing near an opponent. Also, you see, your experience, hand/foot speed, timing and advanced techniques all fly out of the window the moment you start gassing simply because your body is not able to execute the commands your brain tells it to. At that point, a basic boxer with a decent jab and a cross will start beating you black and blue if he is still fresh. To win by skill alone ignoring cardio is an incredible feat. How naturally gifted on some fight style you are and how experienced you are will dictate how lovely cardio you can have, but to give you a clue, I'm feeling I'm honest and even a bit generous when I say on amateurs 90%+ fights will be won with conditioning when two people of the same size and more or less the same experience level meet, before you go to the pros, and it's close to that even there. With mediocre/lovely cardio, how long does it take to become a James Toney or Jean-Charles and beat up technically lesser men who are pro athletes and super fighting cardio? Years and years and years of training, thousands and thousands of rounds of sparring... and possibly dozens or hundreds of fights.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
Ligur posted:How naturally gifted on some fight style you are and how experienced you are will dictate how lovely cardio you can have, but to give you a clue, I'm feeling I'm honest and even a bit generous when I say on amateurs 90%+ fights will be won with conditioning when two people of the same size and more or less the same experience level meet, before you go to the pros, and it's close to that even there. Bolded part -- that is a huge qualifier. If they're evenly matched through experience, then yeah, they'll execute about the same until one tires. I'm saying it's not a terribly meaningful comparison. And personally, from the amateur fight videos I've seen on Youtube, farrrr too many people step into the ring too early, where skill and technique are nonexistent or scattered to the wind from the first awkward clash of arms. Also consider -- with more experience, you can operate more efficiently with less waste. So even if your cardio takes a dip, you can deliver the same output as someone who is inexperienced and charitably "enthusiastic" with his exertions. This efficiency applies both at the technique level and at the tactics level. Timing and pacing your clinches can let you get a breather while the other guy flails to free up and keep attacking.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 08:17
|
|
|
If you've ever run shark tank drills, you'll see the importance of cardio. I've been helping a lot of fighters get ready for fights lately and you'd be surprised how quickly the skill gap closes once one guy is tired. And I'm talking like me being fresh and a pro going into his third minute/third training partner with me. I could land garbage takedowns at will once I forced a clinch, even with a bigger fighter. That's not to say I don't have any decent takedowns, but I was surprised my garbage takedowns that I use for set ups on better ones were working constantly.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:38
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Bolded part -- that is a huge qualifier. If they're evenly matched through experience, then yeah, they'll execute about the same until one tires. I'm saying it's not a terribly meaningful comparison. And personally, from the amateur fight videos I've seen on Youtube, farrrr too many people step into the ring too early, where skill and technique are nonexistent or scattered to the wind from the first awkward clash of arms. Yeah but what do those guys look like in the gym? The stress of competition is almost it's own thing to be dealt with and the first few times out, the regression in skill can be huge. Obviously guys need to be good enough to be safe but I wouldn't take the first few competitions as the measure of the competitor.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 16:07
|
|
|
Judoka: has anyone done Judo in another country? People say "Judo techniques always use Japanese names, so no matter where you go everybody understands." I'm going to Berlin next year and my German is terrible, but I want to do Judo while I'm there just to say that I did it. I've got a year to learn some German, and I hear most Berliners speak English anyway. Does anyone have experience doing this? Or know of good Judo in Berlin?
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 17:59
|
|
|
I trained in Japan- they use the Japanese names there. hth
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
Space human being posted:Judoka: has anyone done Judo in another country? I've trained with guys from Mexico, China, Brazil, France, Germany, Russia, Poland, a couple countries in Africa, etc... and that held true. Some of them spoke english, some didn't. Everybody uses the japanese terms for techniques and commands. So the language barrier wasn't an issue. The lack of that is actually something I find moderately annoying in BJJ. Technique names don't follow any kind of system and a given technique might be called any of a dozen different names depending on who is teaching it. Hell, just using "Tori" and "Uke" would save everybody a lot of trouble.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 22:58
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:Yeah but what do those guys look like in the gym? The stress of competition is almost it's own thing to be dealt with and the first few times out, the regression in skill can be huge. Obviously guys need to be good enough to be safe but I wouldn't take the first few competitions as the measure of the competitor. I just know that when my gym matches up to others in first-time smoker events, our guys look way more practiced when the bell rings. I think my gym has a habit of holding guys back until they're really ready. They look good in class and sparring, and they look decent in these first matches.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2015 00:51
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:The lack of that is actually something I find moderately annoying in BJJ. Technique names don't follow any kind of system and a given technique might be called any of a dozen different names depending on who is teaching it. Hell, just using "Tori" and "Uke" would save everybody a lot of trouble. I've been thinking about this a lot since I took up judo, and I don't think it would work in BJJ, because the basics change all the time. The guillotine you learned 20 years ago is probably nothing like the guillotine you learn today, so you'd need different names to separate them, but you'd also need to know words for the marcelotine and mckenzietine and arm-in guillotine and five finger guillotine and whatever else there is, so the number of terms you'd need to learn in another language might be more daunting. Judo can say 'here is throw x' and 'here is a variation of throw x' because there are detailed records of Kano's teachings, so everybody knows what the base variation is, but BJJ doesn't have a holy text or even a single founder. My first BJJ school started their beginners with really old, low to the ground guard passes, my new school just puts beginners straight onto leg drags, and I don't think either approach is wrong, there's just no standard. I do like how judo has a formal syllabus, it makes up for all the weaboo bowing/kata stuff in my eyes.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2015 23:49
|
|
|
also I LOVE the judo move names even if I can barely do any of them
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2015 23:53
|
|
|
Ligur posted:As for the question, you can't really mix, say, running cardio or fighting (striking or grappling) cardio. Different things. People who easily take 25km runs on any random morning can gas out in a few minutes of boxing if they are not accustomed to boxing. So what the hell is up with that?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 00:39
|
|
|
eat more + better to help the body deal? wait more time to see results?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 00:42
|
|
|
ManOfTheYear posted:Thanks for the effort post. This is something I have been puzzled with: pro-fighters run and lift and do all kinds of poo poo to get more conditioning and strength but no matter what I as an amateur hobbyist do, Stop comparing yourself to pro fighters, jesus gently caress. I mean unless you can quit your job, get a professional dietician, a personal trainer, get a poo poo ton of equipment to help recover fast from muscle soreness and fatigue I would not worry about it. Also personally I have limited my squats and deadlifts to 200 lbs, and has helped a bit.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 00:49
|
|
|
most pro fighters cant quit their jobs i think. the lucky ones get hired to do stuff for the gym they train at
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 00:54
|
|
|
ElMaligno posted:Stop comparing yourself to pro fighters, jesus gently caress. I mean unless you can quit your job, get a professional dietician, a personal trainer, get a poo poo ton of equipment to help recover fast from muscle soreness and fatigue I would not worry about it. http://www.si.com/boxing/2015/04/16/floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-training-cryosauana-david-levi
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 01:09
|
|
|
ElMaligno posted:Stop comparing yourself to pro fighters, jesus gently caress. I mean unless you can quit your job, get a professional dietician, a personal trainer, get a poo poo ton of equipment to help recover fast from muscle soreness and fatigue I would not worry about it. Not comparing, just wondering how doing other stuff can help if it's so different from your ma. At one point I was working most evenings and couldn't do much judo, so I did lift, run and kettlebells six or seven times a week plus one or two judo and did this 4 months. When it was time for competition, I gassed immediatedly. I practiced in a way that I was able to recover but I till got stronger, so it should have helped me tons, but then it really didn't. I did all right in the competition technique-wise, but jesus I was tired.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 01:23
|
|
|
ManOfTheYear posted:Not comparing, just wondering how doing other stuff can help if it's so different from your ma. At one point I was working most evenings and couldn't do much judo, so I did lift, run and kettlebells six or seven times a week plus one or two judo and did this 4 months. When it was time for competition, I gassed immediatedly. I practiced in a way that I was able to recover but I till got stronger, so it should have helped me tons, but then it really didn't. I did all right in the competition technique-wise, but jesus I was tired. Sorry dude im cranky and a bit tired. I aint have participated in any tournaments, so i cant give you hot tips an poo poo. sorry 
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 01:39
|
|
|
ManOfTheYear posted:Thanks for the effort post. This is something I have been puzzled with: pro-fighters run and lift and do all kinds of poo poo to get more conditioning and strength but no matter what I as an amateur hobbyist do, it just doesn't seem to help. If I don't do judo that much and just run and swing kettlebells and do calisthenics, my fighting cardio just goes down like a rocket even though I'm supposed to be more fit. If you don't do judo that much, you'll lose the specific cardio adaptation for the pace and demands of judo and it'll take you a while to get them back, no matter what you do in the meantime. If you do a lot of other strength and conditioning, you'll still be in good shape, but it'll still take you a while to get back your specific grappling cardio. If you don't do anything, you'll lose your specific grappling cardio and also get out of shape, and it'll take you even longer to get back where you were. quote:Same with strength, I had weak rear end legs as a late teen so i increased my squats from 45kg (99lbs) to 105 kg (231lbs) and my judo didn't change crap, I was just more clumsy because my leg muscles were so sore. Being stronger doesn't magically make your judo better, training judo makes your judo better. Getting stronger makes you less likely to get injured, which means you can train more and your judo will get better. It also means you have the option to power through sloppy technique, although that's just going to make you more tired. ManOfTheYear posted:Not comparing, just wondering how doing other stuff can help if it's so different from your ma. Because your specific adaptations still have to be backed up by a general aerobic base and overall strength levels. The biggest engine in the world won't do anything if your car doesn't have wheels, but it does not therefore follow that your engine doesn't matter and you should spend all your time making sure you have really awesome tires.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 02:16
|
|
|
ManOfTheYear posted:Not comparing, just wondering how doing other stuff can help if it's so different from your ma. At one point I was working most evenings and couldn't do much judo, so I did lift, run and kettlebells six or seven times a week plus one or two judo and did this 4 months. When it was time for competition, I gassed immediatedly. I practiced in a way that I was able to recover but I till got stronger, so it should have helped me tons, but then it really didn't. I did all right in the competition technique-wise, but jesus I was tired. The guys already piped out on various stuff but I'll complement. As said, we're not pro-athletes, right. (And I'm not a personal trainer or a sports doctor either but anyway.) We have to worry about a poo poo ton of stuff other than sports which means our rest/work ratio is worse. If you want to be really good in Judo you should mostly do Judo. If you can add additional exercises and still maintain the same energy and rest level, hooray! If you are grappling with someone who is about your weight, experience and skill, and equally well rested, but you can bench 50lbs and deadlift 150lbs more chances are he is getting tossed. If you grapple someone who does twice as much grappling as you do, but you can deadlift 200lbs more (and you are tired to boot), he is going to toss you. Fighting of any sort is ridiculously not about your max strength on a single lift or a low rep set. This is why anyone who has had a few black eyes or bruises from being thrown around will probably be less wary of the blustering, heavily built weight-lifter than the wispy but steely looking chap with a few scars around his eyes. Seriously, really big guys don't cause me any concern: I can run for 30 feet and then I win. But the stony eyed little guy with veiny arms and a slightly abnormal looking, rather flat nose? He'll scare me the gently caress off. Think about boxers and how they train. Even serious amateur ones. You won't see them deadlifting anything. They do bodyweight exercises, might have a bench on an angle to really hit their core and deep muscles when conditioning their midsection, and as for hands use relatively light weights (if at all) and aim on being explosive instead. What they do a fuckton of though, is punch the air (shadowboxing), the double ended-bag or the heavy bag. Again and again and again and again for countless hours and days.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 10:46
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:
This is why I always liked what Eddie Bravo/10th planet do with giving names to every micro position. If he just used vaguely asian sounding names for everything instead of coming up w stoner mnemonics, I could see a bunch of the haters coming on board with this revolutionary new system.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 11:37
|
|
|
Wasn't the whole point of Eddie Bravo's naming system to confuse people from competing schools?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 14:55
|
|
|
02-6611-0142-1 posted:Wasn't the whole point of Eddie Bravo's naming system to confuse people from competing schools? It was a side benefit, but if that was the entire point he probably wouldn't have given all the names in his book. Marc Laimon, on the other hand, has a complicated system of calling for moves to mean other moves when he coaches guys in mma or grappling competition. I was acquanted with a judo dude who trained under Laimon and for him Laimon yelling "PULL GUARD" meant go for an uchi-mata.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 15:11
|
|
|
Ligur posted:If you grapple someone who does twice as much grappling as you do, but you can deadlift 200lbs more (and you are tired to boot), he is going to toss you. And if you grapple someone who does the same amount of grappling as you do, but can deadlift 200 lbs more, he is going to toss you. quote:Think about boxers and how they train. Even serious amateur ones. You won't see them deadlifting anything. Since he's doing judo it would probably be more helpful for him to think about judoka and how they train. And you definitely will see them deadlifting and squatting, because being stronger than your opponent, while not the be-all end-all, is always helpful and only idiots think otherwise.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 15:15
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:
I can imagine hilarious results if the other coach/opponent is in fact paying attention to this specific call
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 15:18
|
|
|
KildarX posted:I can imagine hilarious results if the other coach/opponent is in fact paying attention to this specific call Surely that's the idea. I evaded a triangle when a guy's coach yelled "triangle" as he was going for it so I moved my arm before he could get a leg secured. Oops haha.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 16:25
|
|
|
Laimon seems like such a douche
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 18:20
|
|
|
Ligur posted:Think about boxers and how they train. Even serious amateur ones. You won't see them deadlifting anything. They do bodyweight exercises, might have a bench on an angle to really hit their core and deep muscles when conditioning their midsection, and as for hands use relatively light weights (if at all) and aim on being explosive instead. What they do a fuckton of though, is punch the air (shadowboxing), the double ended-bag or the heavy bag. Again and again and again and again for countless hours and days. I see serious amateur boxers lifting weights all the time, but you're right that it's not the way that power lifters do it, and it's not all of them. Medium-weight squats (125% bodyweight) + lower weights on triceps + kettlebell swing-type workouts. They almost entirely avoid any kind of bicep workout.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 18:31
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:They almost entirely avoid any kind of bicep workout. I think Lt. Shiny-sides has posted a few studies that show a negative relationship between traditional lifting and hand speed. That if you want to increase hand speed, you have to do high weights with explosive efforts, basically the polar complement to speed bag and other endurance drills.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 19:09
|
|
|
When Ivan Robinson's gym was still open down by the Pennsauken mart I used to go down there to train boxing. They had a weight set in the back that saw plenty of use.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 19:48
|
|
|
At the Judo dojo where I started there was an instructor who lifted probably more than he trained, reffed instead of competing. I can't remember ever seeing him do standup, but at groundwork he could clench up so tight that there was just no possible way to attack him, then he'd wait for you to put a hand or foot under his arm while searching for an opening, clamp down on it and roll you over into a pin. He seriously outweighed me and I used to dread those newaza sessions so much. I think I even tapped once because I felt like his armpit crush was just gonna break my wrist before he even set in the pin.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 20:31
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:And if you grapple someone who does the same amount of grappling as you do, but can deadlift 200 lbs more, he is going to toss you. I thought this is exactly what I said when I typed "if you are grappling with someone who is about your weight, experience and skill, and equally well rested, but you can bench 50lbs and deadlift 150lbs more chances are he is getting tossed."  What did you think I said? English is not my native language so I might not come 100% right all the time. quote:Since he's doing judo it would probably be more helpful for him to think about judoka and how they train. And you definitely will see them deadlifting and squatting, because being stronger than your opponent, while not the be-all end-all, is always helpful and only idiots think otherwise. Hell yes I agree, my whole point was that boxers, who seriously box, do a ton of, well boxing stuff. They for example punch air for hours and hours which might sound like an activity that is more or less moronic for other people. So if you are a judoka, you should probably either do Judo as much as possible or wrestle with trees or something instead of thinking lifts (not that sneaking them in is bad if you can get away with it) or whatever. Or do Judo and lift heavy if you can have enough rest. But Judo first. Ligur fucked around with this message at 21:04 on May 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 20:59
|
|
|
so what's the deal with fish oil for bjj recovery / joint maintenance. is it worthwhile? I have cod liver oil, same thing?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 21:09
|
|
|
Fish oil is a must daily supplement imo regardless of what you're doing. I like NOW Super EPA because it's concentrated. You can look into getting some powdered flax as well to add to shake. Also if you're looking for joint support like I think you are check out the multivitamin Orange Triad. Lastly check out MSM Doctor's Best Best MSM (1500 mg) Tablets, 120-Count https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NRXNRC/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_B36vvb0X3X0YR As far as recovery itself good diet and supplement with whey protein of course Ok ok I'm done
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 21:51
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:I think Lt. Shiny-sides has posted a few studies that show a negative relationship between traditional lifting and hand speed. That if you want to increase hand speed, you have to do high weights with explosive efforts, basically the polar complement to speed bag and other endurance drills. That's why they don't do arm work. They'll use weights for legs/back, and they don't go what anyone who lifts weights regularly would consider heavy.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2015 22:05
|
|
|
I'm in Boston, and I wanna start learning a martial art. There's a TKD place on the way home from work that I've passed by on occasion and I'm considering just starting there. However, I don't want to remain ignorant of any good resources to take advantage of in the Boston area, and I'm not really married to a style anyway. Anybody know what Boston's known for? Live community, good gyms?
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 23:25
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:I'm in Boston, and I wanna start learning a martial art. There's a TKD place on the way home from work that I've passed by on occasion and I'm considering just starting there. However, I don't want to remain ignorant of any good resources to take advantage of in the Boston area, and I'm not really married to a style anyway. Anybody know what Boston's known for? Live community, good gyms? What area?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 00:18
|
|
|
Novum posted:What area? I live 'round Fenway/Kenmore and work near DTX. Getting to places like JP and Somerville is pretty difficult. This place is nearby. I've heard that tai chi and aikido are at the very least notable in the Boston area. Does location matter a whole lot? I don't have a car. I'm more interested in getting exercise and doing something fun/enjoyable rather than outright martial aptitude or competitive sports. That said, I'd certainly like to drop this winter coat, so I won't shy away from a conditioning focus...
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 00:27
|
|
|
I train at Wai Kru in Allston and run an open mat for them on Fridays. We have a good Muay Thai, Brazilian jiu jitsu, no gi and MMA programs. Our website schedule is painfully out of date, however.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 02:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 13:48 |
|
|
kimbo305 posted:I think Lt. Shiny-sides has posted a few studies that show a negative relationship between traditional lifting and hand speed. That if you want to increase hand speed, you have to do high weights with explosive efforts, basically the polar complement to speed bag and other endurance drills. Actual it is the opposite of that. Hand speed correlates fairly well to max bench and max squat. The correlation is higher in ballistic version of those movements, but there is relationship with max strength. I train all my guys for max strength and anecdotally I have found that it makes them punch/kick harder. More than that it lays a ground work for their explosive training. If you are weak as piss there is not much you can do, until you address force production. It all comes down to the power to move a limb. If you already have the velocity then extra force will go a long way to improving that power. In combat sports most guys have been working on velocity for a while, so force training goes a long way. Also, many of top teams train for max strength. All of my colleagues in the States do the same regarding max strength work. I was in the UK last year and met with their S&C. The whole team trains heavy and they are one of the better national boxing teams on the planet. They also do direct arm work (curls and the like). I'm not a big fan direct arm work, mainly due to time constraints, but it doesn't seem to be slowing them down.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 03:25
|
|