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Give small loans with absurd interest rates in the developed world, get called a usurer. Do the same thing in the developing world, get a Nobel Peace Prize. Payday loan places in Canada and the US should rebrand themselves as "microfinance."
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May 17, 2015 08:49
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Hey now, lets not make comparisons we cannot take back. Payday loan companies may be immoral profiteers of human misery but they're not even on the scale if you're going to compare them to the IMF.
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May 17, 2015 09:04
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PT6A posted:Give small loans with absurd interest rates in the developed world, get called a usurer. Do the same thing in the developing world, get a Nobel Peace Prize. Are the rates on so-called microloans just as predatory? I've heard of this in India, but never framed in a negative light.
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May 17, 2015 09:16
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Wasting posted:Are the rates on so-called microloans just as predatory? I've heard of this in India, but never framed in a negative light. In many cases, yes. Chrome sucks, so I can't paste a link right now, but there are some good sources about it on the wikipedia page for microfinance. One issue is that there aren't alternative forms of credit available in a lot of the developing world. Another big difference is that taking a loan to start a business, regardless of the rate, makes more sense than to take the same loan to buy consumer goods (even necessary consumer goods).
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May 17, 2015 10:11
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the talent deficit posted:how do you pay $250 for bus service? are you taking greyhound to the valley or something? Two 2-zone bus passes. We don't do it anymore - just own one car and use Modo car sharing sometimes. We also got jobs closer to home at a pay cut, in large part because commuting was so miserable and unreliable. The zone system thing in Vancouver really chaps my rear end - it's based on bridges rather than distance. I'm 10km from downtown via seabus (the only profitable public transit system) but pay way more than people on the other side of town.
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May 17, 2015 10:12
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The last position paper I read said that the death of personal credit in rural India was destroying the caste system, so it can't be that bad
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May 17, 2015 14:39
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Friday's Vice heavily implied that a lot of Indian people were selling organs in order to repay their microfinance loans.
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May 17, 2015 16:03
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I remember when D&D got into supporting microfinance in a big way, to the point where the company asked them not to donate any more money because they couldn't find any more I can't say that I knew that microfinance was terrible at the time, but I did think something was up when all the forum libertarians started getting really enthusiastic about getting involved in a charity.
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May 17, 2015 16:09
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Dreylad posted:I remember when D&D got into supporting microfinance in a big way, to the point where the company asked them not to donate any more money because they couldn't find any more bad investments are homing beacons for libertarians.
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May 17, 2015 16:19
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The danger with regulating payday loans out of existence is you push it underground and people start getting involved with organized crime to "resolve" debt issues. One thing I would like to see happen in canada is postal banking, so that people could cash cheques through canada post outlets. It would at least help people who don't have bank accounts or access to a bank branch and stop them from going to money mart.
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May 17, 2015 18:22
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RBC posted:The danger with regulating payday loans out of existence is you push it underground and people start getting involved with organized crime to "resolve" debt issues. But payday companies are already acting as the traditional loan sharks, it's the exact same business model only with repo-men instead of mobster stereotypes with bats. The only significant difference is that you have legal recourse against organised crime, with payday loan companies you are often left with none since their operation is mostly above the books.
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May 17, 2015 18:31
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Xoidanor posted:But payday companies are already acting as the traditional loan sharks, it's the exact same business model only with repo-men instead of mobster stereotypes with bats. The only significant difference is that you have legal recourse against organised crime, with payday loans companies you are often left with non since their operation is mostly above the books. Lol what? Legal recourse against kneecappings? Good luck with that one.
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May 17, 2015 18:32
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Lexicon posted:Lol what? Legal recourse against kneecappings? Good luck with that one. Prosecutors are free, lawyers are not.
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May 17, 2015 18:35
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is reconstructive surgery free?
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May 17, 2015 18:38
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Xoidanor posted:Prosecutors are free, lawyers are not. You're adorable.
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May 17, 2015 18:43
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Lexicon posted:Lol what? Legal recourse against kneecappings? Good luck with that one. I think what he means by legal recourse is that there are actual "regulatory bodies" (i.e. law enforcement and national intelligence agencies like CISC, RCMP, etc.) that are actively targeting and attempting to monitor organised crime. Tons of money is thrown at the OC problem (even though arguably white collar crime has a way bigger "impact" on society) while in the mean time, regulations against financial institutions is increasingly low on the importance scale. When's the last time you've heard of a government team actively putting physical surveillance on say, payday loan scam, versus an organised crime money laundering front (unless they are one in the same of course)? Atleast with OC, people actually give a poo poo because our media has done a great job of hyping up the scare factor when affluent white people get kneecapped as opposed to DTES kneecapping. Regulating payday loans out of existence though would arguably drive it underground (or go dark), but this line of thinking assumes that there is a difference between being underground, and being completely unmonitored. What is the difference anyways? If a payday loan operates as a "light" network, but isn't being actually targeted or monitored by anyone, is it any different than an underground, "dark" network that has active deceptive measures to avoid detection? This is like the "if a tree falls in the woods" equivalent question to crime intelligence I suppose. Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 19:27 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 19:23
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Yup that's pretty much what I meant.
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May 17, 2015 19:49
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Regulate payday loan places mostly out of existence while also tackling the reason people are going to them in the first place. The two should go hand in hand, although the later would make the need to do the former redundant.
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May 17, 2015 20:01
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Melian Dialogue posted:I think what he means by legal recourse is that there are actual "regulatory bodies" (i.e. law enforcement and national intelligence agencies like CISC, RCMP, etc.) that are actively targeting and attempting to monitor organised crime. Tons of money is thrown at the OC problem (even though arguably white collar crime has a way bigger "impact" on society) while in the mean time, regulations against financial institutions is increasingly low on the importance scale. Money laundering is basically seen as a white collar crime and there are little resources fighting it in canada. In fact, Canada is a money laundering paradise because of our weak laws and enforcement. Thinking canada is "tough on organized crime!" is a huge mistake and wrong. The difference between the two is having regulated interest rates. Payday loans used to operate in that gray area you describe but that is no longer the case. I'm not defending them per se, I wish they were stamped out of existence, but we need to address why they exist provide alternatives so people can get short term credit when they need it at the same rate of, for example, credit cards. It requires more comprehensive legislation and changes than just setting a flat maximum interest rate. That could be combined with something like postal banks, or amendments to the canadian bank act to force banks to lend to people without accounts or such.
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May 17, 2015 20:17
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I would love to see the emergence of postal banking. Works well in much of Europe.
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May 17, 2015 20:29
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Baronjutter posted:Regulate payday loan places mostly out of existence while also tackling the reason people are going to them in the first place. The two should go hand in hand, although the later would make the need to do the former redundant. Let's just destroy all poverty and bad human decision making. That sounds like a realistic goal.
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May 17, 2015 23:07
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I'd rather exterminate all stupid and ugly people
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May 17, 2015 23:22
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Cultural Imperial posted:I'd rather exterminate all stupid and ugly people What level of stupid are we talking about here? If you don't set a generous bar, then 70% of the worlds population might be snuffed out, and then who would run the factories that produce Billy Bass, or Fleshlights, or McNuggets?
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May 18, 2015 00:19
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:What level of stupid are we talking about here? Sounds like a win-win on both fronts, tbh.
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May 18, 2015 00:29
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The level of stupid where we eliminate all crime by abolishing all laws. Boom, problem solved, utopia achieved.
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May 18, 2015 00:50
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 lol
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May 18, 2015 02:35
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fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Australia what is wrong with you?quote:
http://news.domain.com.au/domain/real-estate-news/balwyn-home-earns-vendor-nearly-1-million-in-eight-months-20150518-gh3nl7.html
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May 18, 2015 03:01
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Jumpingmanjim, that's how you know the market will definitely implode. At this point market participants are confirmed to be irrational.
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May 18, 2015 03:06
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Cultural Imperial posted:Jumpingmanjim, that's how you know the market will definitely implode. At this point market participants are confirmed to be irrational. Yeah but there's a lot of money in China
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May 18, 2015 03:08
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Well if it helps, the shanghai composite is flat this morning. You know how many loving rounds of rate reductions they've gone through
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May 18, 2015 03:26
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Jumpingmanjim posted:fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Australia what is wrong with you?
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May 18, 2015 03:30
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Something is happening. India is reeling from record defaults. Indonesia is showing down. China's stimulus is not quite kicking in. US 10 year yields are declining. I thought America was recovering?
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May 18, 2015 07:32
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Cultural Imperial posted:Something is happening. India is reeling from record defaults. Indonesia is showing down. China's stimulus is not quite kicking in. US 10 year yields are declining. I thought America was recovering? The business cycle is roughly 7 years right? So we must be due for another crash soon.
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May 18, 2015 07:42
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Just wait till Greece defaults in June. gently caress am I ever glad I won't be travelling in any EU member states this summer.
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May 18, 2015 07:44
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Rime posted:Just wait till Greece defaults in June. gently caress am I ever glad I won't be travelling in any EU member states this summer. How would that in any way affect a tourist? If anything it would benefit you as it would send the euro exchange rates careening off a cliff temporarily.
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May 18, 2015 07:56
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I'm so very very excited to be vacationing in Ukraine this autumn.
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May 18, 2015 08:13
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Baronjutter posted:I'm so very very excited to be vacationing in Ukraine this autumn. This might be last summer to see Budapest before Hungary turns dictatorship again! 
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May 18, 2015 10:30
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Xoidanor posted:How would that in any way affect a tourist? If anything it would benefit you as it would send the euro exchange rates careening off a cliff temporarily. Yea, I'm going to France/Italy in August and was waiting for the EU to drop before buying any money. Last I checked (which admittedly was a while ago), CDN and EU are both forecasted to decline in value, so it's kind of a race to the bottom.
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May 18, 2015 13:22
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Xoidanor posted:This might be last summer to see Budapest before Hungary turns dictatorship again! Return to the historic mean?
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May 18, 2015 13:51
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Xoidanor posted:This might be last summer to see Budapest before Hungary turns dictatorship again! Based on my brothers report on people in Budapest, they deserve it.
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May 18, 2015 16:18
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