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Thank you all for your info, it's actually made the idea in question better IMHO: Instead of Jyggalag worrying about a bunch of nouveau-immortal Nirnlings, I'm going to have him concerned because "nobody knows what would have happened, except that it would likely have been... disorderly."
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May 19, 2015 17:49
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spoilers for Agents are GO! modtalk and also i guess shivering isles ending stuff Well Dyus would know, right? He was one of my favorite parts of Shivering isles. It really helped balance out the "Chese for everyone!" type stuff, when you meet an impossibly ancient dude who's like "yeah, determinism's real, i know the fate of the entire cosmos because Jyggalag made us figure it out with algebra, and all i want is to die"
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May 20, 2015 00:20
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Learn something new everyday. That soultrap glitch sounds like a lot of fun. Makes me excited for reinstalling Morrowind sometime.
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May 20, 2015 02:54
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I'm always excited to install a TES game until I remember how many mods I will have to sort through. Hopefully the Elder Kings mod for CK2 updates soon.
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May 20, 2015 15:31
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I have eyes on starting an LP when it finally does, so I, too, am eagerly awaiting it.
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May 20, 2015 15:42
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Back To 99 posted:I'm always excited to install a TES game until I remember how many mods I will have to sort through. That's half the fun though, is figuring out how you managed to break the game this time.
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May 20, 2015 22:50
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That's one of my favorite CK2 mods, if not my favorite, so there's another eager goon here.
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May 21, 2015 01:45
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So I was browsing the ESO forums and came across this as someone's sig:quote:Why I think ESO occurs in a Dragon Break: Pretty solid evidence if Bethesda were to retcon ESO out of TES VI, imo.
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May 21, 2015 02:41
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Scyantific posted:So I was browsing the ESO forums and came across this as someone's sig: I haven't played ESO, but has anyone considered the idea that ESO is just Coldharbour? And the entire thing is just Molag Bal loving with everybody there? Isn't Coldharbour supposed to be a direct copy of Nirn?
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May 21, 2015 02:48
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Agents are GO! posted:I haven't played ESO, but has anyone considered the idea that ESO is just Coldharbour? And the entire thing is just Molag Bal loving with everybody there? Isn't Coldharbour supposed to be a direct copy of Nirn? I don't think that level of deception is really in the Lord of Brutality's wheelhouse. That's more Boethiah's thing.
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May 21, 2015 03:10
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Coldharbour is not a direct copy, everything's similar but real hosed up. Honestly I was surprised, the literal first thing I looked for in Coldharbour was the copy of the White-Gold Tower that is supposed to be there and lo, there it was. Also, is it set that what you're doing when playing Cadwell's Gold and Silver is really happening, or is it just a 'what if'?
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May 21, 2015 03:34
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Scyantific posted:So I was browsing the ESO forums and came across this as someone's sig: I dont think they'll retcon it out as there isn't any need, and also Dragon Breaks are less "none of this happened" and more "and then everything happened". ESO is written in a way that it doesn't alter the history set down that much at all: I)Planemeld is stopped, just another apocalyptic scenario which Tamriel has so many of by the time you get all the way up to TES VI probably doesn't even deserve mention as the world is already reeling from four or five similar doomsday situations in just the past two hundred years II) No one definitively wins the Banner War, and all of the alliances either fall apart either shortly after ESO or sometime long before Tiber Septim shows up and finally rebuilds the empire (excluding Aldmeri Dominion which either does fall apart and is reformed or they'll retcon this Aldmeri Dominion as being the AD referenced in the 1st PGE) I am guessing some portion of the books will show up somewhere (they only wrote like 2000 in-game books for ESO) and a lot of the background info on the less fleshed out races will color their depiction in TES VI though post-Oblivion almost all the societies in Tamriel are pretty different than they were even in the 3rd Era (see: how Dunmer society is in Skyrim). edit: Sky Shadowing posted:Also, is it set that what you're doing when playing Cadwell's Gold and Silver is really happening, or is it just a 'what if'? It's a what if, going off the quest text from UESP: quote:Cadwell has approached me and offered me an [sic] chance to see how events might have played out if I'd washed up on the shores of a different alliance after escaping Coldharbour. [if you take the quest immediately] Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 07:15 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 07:08
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WanderingMinstrel I posted:That's half the fun though, is figuring out how you managed to break the game this time. I think this is why TES bugs get found so quickly. We are all conditioned to be bug testers. They should do a beta for tesVI a little before release to find and fix all the bugs quicker
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May 21, 2015 07:49
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Nasgate posted:I think this is why TES bugs get found so quickly. We are all conditioned to be bug testers. I don't think a beta would help much at all. Most of the bugs really don't appear until you start modding the game with a large number plugins and even then most errors are due to the modder using tools that produce assets that are not quite what the engine expects, lack of sanity checks in scripts and the modder not doing minor things in with the official tools that the game expects to run right. Also the average person sucks at reporting bugs.
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May 21, 2015 08:14
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I'm not sure you and I played the same Skyrim when it came out.
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May 21, 2015 08:27
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Yeah, I got worse bugs in pristine, unmodded Skyrim than in my modded playthroughs. A newbie question: A Dragon Break is when the timeline splits apart, right? Like when Alduin was/wasn't sent forward in time, and when Red Mountain... happened. I guess what I'm asking is: why is it significant that ESO happens (or doesn't happen) during a Dragon Break?
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May 21, 2015 08:51
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A Dragon Break means that lots of different impossible things happen at once. Flip a coin during a dragonbreak, and when it's over you have flipped heads and tails at the same time. At the end of Daggerfall, the Numidium invades all provinces at the same time and during the first era, they spent a thousand years inside a really messy Dragonbreak.
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May 21, 2015 08:57
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A Dragon Break is when for whatever reason time just stops making sense. Things that should not be able to logically occur at the same time do, events that should be years apart are not, etc. Linearity is thrown to the wind.
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May 21, 2015 08:58
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Alright, I get it now. "Even though we killed the boss he's still around loving things up" and "We can experience everyone's starting missions after one another, although they take place at the same time" point to time being broken. But aren't these things just MMORPG conventions? Like how in Skyrim dragons kept spawning, even after Alduin had been defeated? Or was that a Dragon Break too? I guess what I'm asking is: What's the deal with story and gameplay segregation/integration?
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May 21, 2015 09:03
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Look, what we all need to do is just drink heavily until and after the 1.0 of open morrowind comes out.
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May 21, 2015 09:12
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Isn't ESO set way in the past? Which means the future is already written with the single player Elderscrolls games. And those are the past for any future Elderscrolls release
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May 21, 2015 09:24
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Yes, and also the future exists in a thousand threads, none of which occurred in ESO. Its going to be something like a dragon break except people will care less about it than they do daggerfall.
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May 21, 2015 09:32
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It's at this part of the discussion that my brain starts to hurt. Thanks for clarifying, dudes!
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May 21, 2015 09:48
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LoonShia posted:It's at this part of the discussion that my brain starts to hurt. Just think of it this way: They set ESO far away in time just so they could ignore any story impact it could have had otherwise
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May 21, 2015 09:57
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LoonShia posted:Alright, I get it now. "Even though we killed the boss he's still around loving things up" and "We can experience everyone's starting missions after one another, although they take place at the same time" point to time being broken. There's nothing to really explain at that point. Gameplay comes before lore, and if that means the lore isn't good enough, so be it. Elder Scrolls simply comes with a built-in "a wizard did it" system, which does a good job keeping the players entertained by working out the missing gaps themselves. Except when it creates new ones. Then you come back to reality and accept the bad writing.
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May 21, 2015 10:35
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Dragon breaks are a deus ex machina that allows the writers to never write themselves into a corner. Elder Scrolls are essentially mini versions, are the ultimate mcguffin.
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May 21, 2015 12:05
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LoonShia posted:Yeah, I got worse bugs in pristine, unmodded Skyrim than in my modded playthroughs. Not much, really. We probably won't be hearing people all of a sudden gabbing non stop about a thing that happened 1000 years before.
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May 21, 2015 16:05
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Nobody even mentioned the Planemeld during the Oblivion crisis, which was basically the same thing but with a different Daedric prince.
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May 21, 2015 16:32
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GrumpyDoctor posted:Nobody even mentioned the Planemeld during the Oblivion crisis, which was basically the same thing but with a different Daedric prince. Yeah, though thats simply because ESO wasn't made yet. Kind of like how Daggerfall there's zero mention of Ayelids in High Rock even though now in ESO we know their ruins are everywhere and the Ayelids last hold out was in Glenumbra. Its just because Ayelids weren't fleshed out until Oblivion. The Oblivion crisis seems like it was a lot more traumatizing than the Planemeld too as it happened a lot more suddenly and dramatically and everything before was going relatively okay. When the Planemeld occurs Tamriel was basically already hosed up and reeling from the empire not existing, civil wars and the second akaviri invasion so its like "oh, dark anchors. guess its another tuesday"
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May 21, 2015 17:15
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Really, all Beth has to do is think up a convincing excuse to why everything was forgotten, and it's not that difficult. The Nords and Argonians, most of the time, hate the Dunmer, so it would make sense that the Ebonheart Pact would not be highly remembered. The Bretons and Redguards are generally rivals, not to mention Daggerfall and Wayrest don't usually get along, the Crowns and Forebears don't either, and everyone constantly fucks the Orcs over at the first chance, so 'brotherhood' would be forgotten. And the AD can be handwaved because it does exist later. Also, remember that this is the 2nd Era. poo poo like the Planemeld is probably not particularly uncommon, I mean Mournhold was sacked a few hundred years ago by Mehrunes Dagon and Molag Bal was summoned to destroy a town because a Khajiit king hated a bard from there. Sky Shadowing fucked around with this message at 17:20 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 17:18
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I'm still surprised some people have an issue with the existence of the alliances as they make a lot of sense considering the motivations of the different groups. DC is the most conventional of the alliances, as King Emerics number one goal is to rebuild a human led Cyrodillic empire in the mold of the Reman Empire. He was able to become high king through diplomacy with unconventional allies while his rivals squabbled with each other in the face of the Reachmen invading. King Faharajad is in a politically tenuous situation at home being a Forebear, so he seeks political reinforcement with the Bretons across the Illiac Bay. The Orcs (rightfully) view a restoration of the Cyrodillic empire as the only way to ensure that they will have political recognition of Orsinium, though many expect that the second things go south they'll be betrayed. The AD is the dream of high elves ruling Tamriel again as everyone else doesn't seem fit to do it. The Thalmor of the second era are just barely cosmopolitan in outlook and mostly because of Ayrenn's influence, anywhere you go during the AD questline is basically Altmer pushing around the bosmer and khajiit and it is very much a colonial project that's top down, with the High Elves telling everyone what to do and how to act. High Elves and and Bosmer and on again off again allies so that makes sense, and the Khajiit aren't going to do anything like side with the Argonians because they blame them for the flu that's loving up Elsweyr. EP is much different in comparison as there is no central authority and it is purely a self-defense pact. There's no interest in rebuilding the Empire as each province wants to just be independent. This is reflected that there is no central leader to the whole thing, Jorunn doesn't even control all of Skyrim and is implied to basically be a puppet of the Tribunal and the Hist. Its set up to basically fall apart once everything calms down.
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May 21, 2015 20:07
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I do like that they clearly set up the means by which each Alliance will fall. The Dominion is, as you say, clearly dominated by the Altmer with the Bosmer and Khajiit just sort of along for the ride, (and only because Ayrenn showed up to intervene in a Bosmer civil war uninvited) and it's so blatant that there’s literally a training camp that has been subverted by racist rebels to basically murder and brainwash Khajiit and Bosmer and nobody cares until the player shows up. Meanwhile, the Daggerfall Covenant is basically game of thrones, with everyone plotting against everyone, the only reason it hasn't fallen apart yet is that Emeric is basically playing the game perfectly. And of course the Ebonheart Pact everyone still hates everyone else and the only reason it formed in the first place was everyone hated the Akaviri more, and once they were allied a few progressive folks basically said "let's try this out".
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May 21, 2015 20:19
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Yeah, DC is done the second Emeric is dead or Faharajad has no more sisters to marry off, and the AD once Ayrenn is gone or the Khajiit get tired of being treated like poo poo or bosmer get mad because someone stepped on a flower.
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May 21, 2015 21:16
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Nasgate posted:Dragon breaks are a deus ex machina that allows the writers to never write themselves into a corner. That's kind of the entire point of The Elder Scrolls though, both the series, and the items as well in a loose concept. They can only tell what may be the future, and due to other factors in lore, that future can be an alternative but still concurrent future. That's like, the entire point of an Elder Scroll aside from being immensely powerful. You don't even need CHIM or Dragon Breaks or the warp in the west. They already have like 3 avenues of infinite retreat and retcon. Which sucks, because while kirkbride might be a but WEIRD AS gently caress, he wrote some of the best lore ever that made the series unique.
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May 25, 2015 19:22
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I would argue that all the good lore can be attributed to Kirkbride's editor. My argumentation is based on his writings outside of the series. All of his crazy untamed is a nightmare of hogwash. Like a kid playing "I have a sword of ultimate bladyness" "Well my shield is unbreakable". Only the kid is playing the game with himself.
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May 26, 2015 07:28
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also that guy who always plays an elf in a table-top game.
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May 26, 2015 08:13
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Man Whore posted:also that guy who always plays an elf in a table-top game. Well it depends on what kind of elf  MK has his moments; his Dwemer "Type of Zero Yet to be Discovered" poem was really good, for example. But I take most of his post-Bethesda stuff with a grain of salt. And I still think he's trying to be like that one Star Trek TNG episode where everything is a metaphor. "Temba, his arms wide! Shaka, when the walls fell! The Red King, once jungled!"
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May 26, 2015 10:48
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Pikestaff posted:Well it depends on what kind of elf "Dumac and Nerevar at Red Mountain!"
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May 27, 2015 15:55
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"Sheogorath and Jyggalag, passing the mantle."
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May 27, 2015 16:20
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Do you count the later books that paper over the cracks in the setting (like why Cyrodiil turned into an English countryside) as decent in-universe justification for why stuff changes in TES? Do you even care?
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May 27, 2015 18:04
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