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I'm interested in doing the Fiesta, and kind of considering doing a stream of it as well. Based on the talk in the thread, it doesn't matter which version you use as long as it's not a blatant cheating hack? Also why all the Geomancer hate? I've had some good times with them.
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May 20, 2015 04:12
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Geomancers aren't bad if you're in a regular game, but they're pretty weak under Fiesta rules.
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May 20, 2015 04:17
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Jueg01 posted:Based on the talk in the thread, it doesn't matter which version you use as long as it's not a blatant cheating hack? Nope, go ahead and use whatever version you feel like. Yes, even the PSX port if that strikes your fancy.
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May 20, 2015 04:18
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Jueg01 posted:Also why all the Geomancer hate? I've had some good times with them. Because their spells are A) random, B) mostly terrible, and C) have numerous situations where the only Terrain results literally do nothing to problematic bosses/enemies. Honorable mention to !Gaia not even having the decency to pass down a Geomancer's good Magic score.
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May 20, 2015 04:27
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Geomancer's problem is that it doesn't contribute much late game. Gaia is really too unreliable in most places to be any good, and bells are just lovely weapons all around. In addition, Geomancer doesn't really get anything that can mitigate Chicken Knife's Flee chance, and it's not like it has good physical attack power. In the end Geomancer usually just ends up being a second Summoner/mage rather than being able to stand on its own abilities. The only really unique thing I've ever been able to do with Geomancer was in one run when I had it and Berserker, I got a Rune Chime randomly so I gave it Equip Axes and it was a pretty good physical attacker with the Rune Bell. Still inferior to what most other classes can do but it was pretty fun.
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May 20, 2015 04:27
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That said, Gaia isn't too bad for random encounters. It's just really outclassed later (and not good at all on a lot of bosses, as noted). But, honestly, since random encounters aren't a huge problem for most parties, it's kind of marginal.
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May 20, 2015 04:29
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 (i forget who originally made this like last year)
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May 20, 2015 04:30
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Dragonatrix posted:
I actually found it on tumblr. 
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May 20, 2015 04:30
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Geomancer, like Thief or Red Mage in a regular game, is a job you take early in the game to grab their abilities and don't touch in the latter parts. !Gaia is a solid secondary for mages as a spammable Magic-based ability that doesn't cost MP (and isn't as prohibitively difficult to learn as !Call), and the safe floor ability is extremely useful in exactly two lategame dungeons. Nobody would voluntarily run a Geomancer in the party in World 3 outside the Fiesta and I don't think the developers ever really intended for you to, they just got pretty desperate after the first 8 or 9 legendary weapons.
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May 20, 2015 04:33
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In a normal game you never run out of mp because !lancet exists. And it that isn't enough there's about a billion !mix results that give full mp recovery.
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May 20, 2015 04:37
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Kyrosiris posted:I actually found it on tumblr. That would explain why I can't remember who made it at least 
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May 20, 2015 04:38
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!Gaia is good to kill those evil squirrels back in the first world. 
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May 20, 2015 04:43
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I've had multiple Fiesta runs where !Gaia was my most consistent and damaging form of attack. Those were the darkest of times.
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May 20, 2015 05:09
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Schwartzcough posted:I've had multiple Fiesta runs where !Gaia was my most consistent and damaging form of attack. Those were the darkest of times. What were you running?
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May 20, 2015 05:12
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If you have Geomancer and another mage you can try and get a Rune Chime, which boosts every element but Water.
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May 20, 2015 05:25
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Am I too late to add more zerks?
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May 20, 2015 05:28
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Hypha posted:Am I too late to add more zerks? No, you're too early. Come back in 11 days.
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May 20, 2015 05:29
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ultrafilter posted:What were you running? Man, I'm trying to remember now. I think it was something like White/Red/Geo/Chemist. I think another time I had Blue/Red/Geo/Dancer, and I remember going through an area where pretty much everything was immune to Wind and had annoying levels so I couldn't Blue Magic stuff to death, and Sword Dance is just so unreliable, especially when you have multiple enemies to kill. Or there are runs when you're pretty much reliant on Black Magic or Summons or Meteor to kill things, but it's really hard to make MP last through an entire dungeon when it's your only real form of killing- then Geomancy gets a lot of use. Geomancy isn't actually all that terrible for killing trash in most areas. There are some places where it's pretty awful (like Moore forest), but usually it's somewhere between "meh" and great.
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May 20, 2015 05:35
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Also, wearing the Gaia Gear and wielding the Air Knife helps by multiplying the damage of like 90% of the Geomancer attacks.
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May 20, 2015 05:37
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The real question is, why are you fighting random encounters that aren't objets d'art/reflect knights?
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May 20, 2015 05:37
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Kyrosiris posted:The real question is, why are you fighting random encounters that aren't objets d'art/reflect knights? So I've heard people here say that levels are the least important resource in FFV, or something like that. Why is that, I don't really get why you'd want to run all the time, it seems like that'd catch up with you unless you had an instant death trick for the bosses.
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May 20, 2015 05:39
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Countblanc posted:So I've heard people here say that levels are the least important resource in FFV, or something like that. Why is that, I don't really get why you'd want to run all the time, it seems like that'd catch up with you unless you had an instant death trick for the bosses. there's a weapon called the Chicken Knife that gains power for every battle you've run from. It gets obscene and is the best weapon in the game. there are also a LOT of instant-death tricks for bosses. 
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May 20, 2015 05:40
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Kyrosiris posted:The real question is, why are you fighting random encounters that aren't objets d'art/reflect knights? Oh no, Reflect Knights!  Those are my most dreaded part of every run; the RNG hates me and I always stall out there for hours. I need to look up where I calculated which floor gives you the most Reflect Knights per experience gained...
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May 20, 2015 05:40
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FutureFriend posted:
5/19 Never Forget Saga Begins 2:49:00, Lives on Forever  
A_Raving_Loon fucked around with this message at 06:10 on May 20, 2015 |
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May 20, 2015 05:40
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wizard is dead after near 6 hours
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Huzzah! posted:No, you're too early. Come back in 11 days. I am ok with this.
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May 20, 2015 05:42
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Poque posted:there's a weapon called the Chicken Knife that gains power for every battle you've run from. It gets obscene and is the best weapon in the game. Well I'm aware of the chicken knife but it's pretty trivial to get to the needed encounter flee count, but people sorta imply you should be running long past that
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May 20, 2015 05:42
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Countblanc posted:So I've heard people here say that levels are the least important resource in FFV, or something like that. Why is that, I don't really get why you'd want to run all the time, it seems like that'd catch up with you unless you had an instant death trick for the bosses. I tend to flit from profitable grinding spot to profitable grinding spot, and blaze through anything in between picking off bosses and ignoring randoms. Usually I hit up Moldwynds in the Wind Shrine for a stash of Elixirs (usually to 8-10), the mages in Walse Tower that drop Flame Rods (12-13ish), Objets d'Art (key class abilities), and then Reflect Knights (depending on my luck, I end up somewhere in the mid 20s). Yeah, it does depend on composition to some extent - if I have Blue and Chemist I could literally beat everything with zero level gain if I wanted to (see also: Dr Pepper's low-level LP), whereas if I have Thief/Dancer I'm in for some real hell trying to get the HP to endure Almagest in spite of beating the rest of the game in the low 20s.
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May 20, 2015 05:42
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Countblanc posted:So I've heard people here say that levels are the least important resource in FFV, or something like that. Why is that, I don't really get why you'd want to run all the time, it seems like that'd catch up with you unless you had an instant death trick for the bosses. Most bosses can either be killed outright or shut down with the appropriate abilities. The generally recognized best Fiesta set up is Blue Mage/Mystic Knight/Bard/Chemist, which doesn't really have any damage output for most of the game, but they have enough tricks to just walk all over everything. I've considered doing an LP with that party to show it off, but my current computer would probably die, and I'm not ready to replace it just yet. Anyone interested?
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May 20, 2015 05:45
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Countblanc posted:So I've heard people here say that levels are the least important resource in FFV, or something like that. Why is that, I don't really get why you'd want to run all the time, it seems like that'd catch up with you unless you had an instant death trick for the bosses. There are exactly three things that levels modify: Your HP, your MP, and your damage multipliers. They don't modify how much damage you take, or how fast you act, and the damage multipliers are ultimately relatively insignificant - something like several hundred damage every four or five levels. Equipment (and jobs/skills) are far more important than levels in FF5, and if you're playing a normal run you're generally going to have more than enough HP and MP to get through everything but the final boss anyway.
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May 20, 2015 06:16
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Countblanc posted:So I've heard people here say that levels are the least important resource in FFV, or something like that. Why is that, I don't really get why you'd want to run all the time, it seems like that'd catch up with you unless you had an instant death trick for the bosses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMJxVJxNTQY
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May 20, 2015 06:48
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Countblanc posted:So I've heard people here say that levels are the least important resource in FFV, or something like that. Why is that, I don't really get why you'd want to run all the time, it seems like that'd catch up with you unless you had an instant death trick for the bosses. Does a game where you can beat the final ultimega super bullshit bonus megaboss at levels of 5,4,4, & 5 sound like a game where levels are particularly important?
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May 20, 2015 06:52
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There's also speed concerns for those looking to put down multiple runs in one Fiesta. Level is probably the single most important variable in the game, certainly in the vast majority of formulas it shows up in - it's just that it's also easy to mitigate or outright circumvent the need for it.
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May 20, 2015 07:18
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Jueg01 posted:Also why all the Geomancer hate? I've had some good times with them. Every class in Final Fantasy V has the following traits to consider: Strength Magic Vitality Agility Abilities Equipment Innates Here's the thing. Those aren't all weighted equally. Especially in a challenge run. For example, Magic is often not a very important stat. You only need Magic for your base MP and any abilities that use Magic. Trouble is, MP's not a real issue (run out=Elixir) and most Magic using abilities come with that class's Magic. Only oddball abilities like !Throw, !Gaia, and !Mix use Magic without giving any to their bearer. Agility is similarly worthless. It matters for turn order, sure, and once in a blue moon you'll want it high if you need every edge* against Neo Exdeath or something, but it's not of severe importance. Haste matters far more. That leaves Strength and Vitality. Strength is really important for any class that uses !Fight or variants as a primary method of offense. Vitality is important for literally every class, as it determines HP, and HP is kind of important. Unless, of course, you don't have a White Mage to cast Life2/Arise. Then it's freaking critical. Consider the difference between 1500 and 2500 HP without a White Mage to fully revive when facing an 1800 damage Almagest. That crap adds up. Notably, Geomancer is bad at both Strength and Vitality. Let's look at Abilities. Well, there's !Gaia. It's weak and unreliable, except for the odd time it's useful, which isn't against anything difficult. It also comes with the class, so it's only useful for putting on other jobs. It also doesn't pass on any Magic, so no boosting Rune Axe/Rune Blade/Earth Hammer/!Throw. So, !Gaia's only useful for giving an already magically strong class an MP free attack. So, White Mages and Bards. There's Find Pits, which is both really useless and is innate, as is Light Step. Would you look at that? Geomancers do literally nothing from classing up that they can't from the start! !Gaia's the only standout here, but let's face it, so far the Geomancer's only real advantage over the Berserker is the ability to use Elixirs. What about equipment? There's knives, which nearly everything gets. That's not a big plus. There's bells, which suck as actual weapons. There's the Rune Chime, which is frankly overhyped (if you need a second Holy booster you've got a White Mage. This means you've already won and any further boosts are merely nice to have) and isn't even really worth attacking with. A little over half the battle power of the Rune Axe with the Rune formula means that, I dunno, you could bash Shinryu with it, if you've got three Golem casters handy. Geomancers also don't get shields, which is bad, as being able to use a shield would literally make Geomancers worth using. As a final insult, they don't even get the Bone Mail, another item which would otherwise help patch them up. As for innates, I feel their Santa-esque sprite is a more notable innate for Geomancers than their actual innates. Literally the only situation I would ever willingly use a Geomancer is if my other three party members were Berserkers and I had a choice between a fourth Berserker and someone who could actually use Elixirs and Phoenix Downs on the rest of my party. Even then, the only thing I'd be valuing the Geomancer for would be its value as Not A Fourth Berserker instead of any other actual merit.
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May 20, 2015 07:19
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The Rune Bell boosts, like, all the elements (more than the Magus Rod, I think). That's helpful for more than just casting Holy- you can use it to boost Summons, Black Magic, and Blue Magic, as well as boosting a lot of the Gaia attacks themselves. And !Gaia itself really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Most of the time it can one- or two-shot pretty much any trash enemy, and often can clear an entire group of enemies in a single use. There are multiple points in the game where !Gaia is likely to do more damage than anything else you've got available. No, it's not always reliable, and it totally sucks in some places, but it's not awful and useless 100% of the time like so many people make it out to be. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Geomancer is good, but I don't weep bitter tears when I get one like a lot of players seem to. Most of the time I'd rather have a Geomancer than a Chemist. Yeah, I said it. Come at me, goons.
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May 20, 2015 07:39
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I like how going to the FJF main page tells you literally nothing because for some reason the bar that links to things like Players, Streams, and Help is just... not there, even though it's there on every other page on the site
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May 20, 2015 07:54
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The problem with Geomancer is the next major boss is Sol Cannon. The place you fight him ONLY gives !gaia gust (or wind slash. I don't remember, I just remember it's a wind spell). Sol cannon is immune to wind, meaning that for the next major boss before the next crystal geomancer is pretty much dead weight. That's probably why everyone remembers it as a garbage class. Sure wiping out random encounters is nice but it's not very useful for bosses and if you have a class that can use the chicken knife then you're gonna run from most encounters anyways. When your other classes are White Mage and Berserker it is absolute hell to beat that thing.
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May 20, 2015 07:59
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Countblanc posted:So I've heard people here say that levels are the least important resource in FFV, or something like that. Why is that, I don't really get why you'd want to run all the time, it seems like that'd catch up with you unless you had an instant death trick for the bosses. The other thing people aren't telling you is that with a small selection of (often notable) exceptions, most boss-level attacks in the game actually mostly do (% of target's health), as a system to prevent excessive grinding, as I recall. This also means hilarious things like random encounters, who often have fixed damage output, can be notably more frightening at the later end. The result is that aside from specific attacks, leveling up doesn't actually change the ratio of damage the boss is dealing to you. ...I think. It's been a year since I Fiesta'd so I could be remembering a different FF or even snes RPG.
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May 20, 2015 08:01
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Schwartzcough posted:The Rune Bell boosts, like, all the elements (more than the Magus Rod, I think). That's helpful for more than just casting Holy- you can use it to boost Summons, Black Magic, and Blue Magic, as well as boosting a lot of the Gaia attacks themselves. MAGIC ELEMENT UP: Air, Earth, Holy, Poison, Lightning, Ice, Fire Earth and Poison are irrelevant, so that leaves Air, Holy, Lightning, Fire, and Ice. You only need to boost Air if you're using Syldra or Aero. In which case, an Air Lancet will suffice. Lightning, Ice, and Fire all have their own rods to use, which leaves Holy as the only instance of the Rune Chime actually doing something another weapon can't (since there's only one Sage Staff). Which, like I said, if you've got White Mage already, an extra 50% on a character's Holy spell is basically overkill, as you're not actually going to have trouble with the rest of the game. Okay, yeah, there's the edge case of a Summoner casting Phoenix. The Rune Chime is overrated. Schwartzcough posted:And !Gaia itself really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Most of the time it can one- or two-shot pretty much any trash enemy, and often can clear an entire group of enemies in a single use. There are multiple points in the game where !Gaia is likely to do more damage than anything else you've got available. No, it's not always reliable, and it totally sucks in some places, but it's not awful and useless 100% of the time like so many people make it out to be. Being able to trash randoms isn't really all that special. I'll stand by my point: !Gaia is lackluster to useless on anything that poses an actual challenge. Schwartzcough posted:Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Geomancer is good, but I don't weep bitter tears when I get one like a lot of players seem to. Most of the time I'd rather have a Geomancer than a Chemist. Yeah, I said it. Come at me, goons. Yeah, I'll come at you on this. Screw !Mix. No one needs !Mix. !Mix is an overly complicated overkill ability on an already good class. Chemists can double their HP, Haste themselves, Protect themselves, and raise their level high enough to just !Fight anything to death. On top of that, they get staves, an actually good weapon set. Using Staves they get free Cura, Raise, and Dispel. If you're not grinding averse, you get on-call shots of Holy. Finally, if you do delve into their abilities, Pharmacology turns Hi-Potions into basically X-Potions for almost the entire game, making a Chemist a ghetto White Mage as well. !Revive is the only multitarget resuurection ability in the whole game, so if for some reason your party who has access to a class that teaches them !Drink actually has someone go down, and multiple people at that, you can bring them all back up quickly. The only thing Geomancer does that Chemist doesn't is randomly wipe out random encounters that weren't threatening anyway slightly faster. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but your opinion is terrible.
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May 20, 2015 09:06
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Literally the only time a Chemist is bad is if you're expecting to auto-attack your way through an area. Then they're on par with Geomancer and Bard (and pretty much any Mage) as not being something that attacks with the Attack command, at least without former preparation. (Boost your levels and make sure you aren't holding a Healing Staff, and they can do just as much damage as you need) That's really the only reason I don't like drawing Chemist: They get boring after a while, the same way Blue Mage or Summoner runs do. You already know you've beaten the game, so why go to the effort of beating the game?
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May 20, 2015 09:37
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Trasson posted:MAGIC ELEMENT UP: Air, Earth, Holy, Poison, Lightning, Ice, Fire Yeees, you CAN boost elements with other weapons- but most classes can't equip those weapons. Let's say you get a Black Mage- you can put black magic on other classes, but most of them can't equip rods and therefore can't boost the spells, which really cuts down on their utility. A geomancer with the Rune Chime can boost pretty much any elemental secondary you decide to slap on them. Plus, Earth damage is not irrelevant for a geomancer, who can use Quake and such. Trasson posted:Being able to trash randoms isn't really all that special. I'll stand by my point: !Gaia is lackluster to useless on anything that poses an actual challenge. You spend more time fighting trash than you do fighting bosses. And unless you just run from everything, fighting your way through a dungeon can be a big drain on a lot of teams. Having a character that can wipe the entire enemy party with a single free move 50% of the time is not to be sneered at. Trasson posted:Yeah, I'll come at you on this. Screw !Mix. No one needs !Mix. !Mix is an overly complicated overkill ability on an already good class. Chemists can double their HP, Haste themselves, Protect themselves, and raise their level high enough to just !Fight anything to death. On top of that, they get staves, an actually good weapon set. Using Staves they get free Cura, Raise, and Dispel. If you're not grinding averse, you get on-call shots of Holy. Finally, if you do delve into their abilities, Pharmacology turns Hi-Potions into basically X-Potions for almost the entire game, making a Chemist a ghetto White Mage as well. !Revive is the only multitarget resuurection ability in the whole game, so if for some reason your party who has access to a class that teaches them !Drink actually has someone go down, and multiple people at that, you can bring them all back up quickly. The only thing Geomancer does that Chemist doesn't is randomly wipe out random encounters that weren't threatening anyway slightly faster. Chemists can double their HP, Haste themselves, etc.- it's too bad Chemist is an absolute poo poo job at doing anything besides buffing themselves if you take away !Mix. They can't do damage and most of their healing is limited-quantity money-costing single-target healing. I am grinding averse, and so killing hundreds of Metamorphs for a couple shots of Holy is right out. My grinding aversion is also why I don't care for Mix- grinding for Turtle Shells, Dragon Fangs, and Dark Matter (i.e., the ingredients used in all the best mixes) is a boring slog. !Drink isn't a great ability for synergy, because it's only self-target- to buff up your team, you'd have to put it on everyone. Does anyone ever actually use an ability slot on !Revive? If you're whole team is getting killed, chances are you're in over your head and !Revive won't help much. I can't say I've ever used it. Even Mix is kinda overrated. It gets talked up a lot because it can allow a character to solo superbosses. This is true, but for a team-based playthrough it's really inefficient. !Mix is all about slowly becoming invincible, and then winning through attrition. However, it's single-target. Trying to buff an entire team with !Mix takes an eternity. In a normal playthrough, boss battles simply don't last long enough for it to be worth !Mixing up a million potions 98% of the time. You're better off just making the boss die in 3 turns instead of taking 10 turns and using a ton of rare ingredients to become a super tank. Honestly, most of the time I just have my Chemist standing around with the Healing Staff. They feel like total dead weight except in the 3 or 4 boss battles where they really shine.
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May 20, 2015 09:41
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