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I would be amazed if they don't write that off. The damage seems to be focused on valuable pieces... like missing the entire cockpit and nose. Might be able to salvage the engine at least. I guess a better post would be asking how much of that could they actually re-use? Mazz fucked around with this message at 15:30 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 15:26
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Mr Crustacean posted:Well the dude sounds like a guy who's on the spectrum, albeit very high functioning. Well this is getting silly now, doesn't read like someone of sound mind & judgement at this point (also different name to the whistleblower): https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153362392441584&set=a.466928516583.263229.768736583&type=1&theater
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May 19, 2015 16:21
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TheFluff posted:A Hungarian two-seater Gripen seems to have had a runway excursion today (in Czech but Google translates well). The pilots ejected when it ran off the runway and seems to have made it without injuries I mean, maybe they didn't have obvious permanent injuries like broken necks or spines, but I got rear-ended in my modern car with seatbelts and headrests and crumplezones, nothing broken, but still had a bunch of whiplash pains in my neck and back for a couple of months. I can't imagine the kind of trauma my body would suffer getting slammed in the rear end by a rocket chair at 20g or whatever it is.
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May 19, 2015 18:45
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Neophyte posted:Is it really possible to eject in these seats and not have injuries? Getting hurt and getting injured are two different things.
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May 19, 2015 18:53
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Ya they shrink you an inch when you punch out, you can imagine how unpleasant it is. Still beats ending up wherever that cockpit is.
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May 19, 2015 18:56
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejection_seat#Pilot_safety Loving that 1970s Soviet ejection seats subjected pilots to ten more goddamn Gs than a typical western seat 
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May 19, 2015 19:21
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You shrink when you go about your day and recover overnight. I've heard of the "shrink an inch" thing before and if that's true I doubt it's permanent. Ejection seats subject you to a huge impulse, but I bet it's similar to (maybe less than) the force from a hard parachute landing onto asphalt.
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May 19, 2015 19:27
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And the modern ones are p smart about not injuring you. Also holy loving hell "The minimal ejection altitude for ACES II seat in inverted flight is about 140 feet (43 m) above ground level at 150 KIAS"
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May 19, 2015 20:21
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I don't think anyone's been killed or seriously hurt in a Gripen accident/crash so far, even if the ejection seats wanted to take the pilot for a ride on their own for a while (bad placement of the ejection handle?). Worse things have been known to happen when both crew of a fighter decide to eject.
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May 19, 2015 21:36
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evil_bunnY posted:And the modern ones are p smart about not injuring you. Also holy loving hell "The minimal ejection altitude for ACES II seat in inverted flight is about 140 feet (43 m) above ground level at 150 KIAS" That, uh, that seems awfully low. Must be one hell of a ride (assuming you actually stay conscious)
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May 19, 2015 22:10
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Pimpmust posted:I don't think anyone's been killed or seriously hurt in a Gripen accident/crash so far, even if the ejection seats wanted to take the pilot for a ride on their own for a while (bad placement of the ejection handle?). Christ, that's bad. Never heard of it before now. That one dude lasted nine months before dying, christ. 
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May 19, 2015 22:30
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Confronting the legacy of the KGB in Latvia. Or rather not confronting it because a bunch of the guilty people are now politically powerful.
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May 20, 2015 01:03
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Pimpmust posted:I don't think anyone's been killed or seriously hurt in a Gripen accident/crash so far, even if the ejection seats wanted to take the pilot for a ride on their own for a while (bad placement of the ejection handle?). Had a relative working as an Army dentist at Bragg when that happened, ended up getting pulled in to help with ID'ing the bodies from dental records. Pretty grim stuff, two planes of jet fuel doesn't leave much behind.
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May 20, 2015 03:33
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All the Navy's aircraft on one page. 
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May 20, 2015 04:21
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Mazz posted:All the Navy's aircraft on one page. Why is VF45 "The pelicans" bombing a downsy cloud?
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May 20, 2015 04:34
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Yeah that's not getting fixed. Edit: Oh hey, a whole extra page. I was talking about the Grippen.
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May 20, 2015 04:52
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VFA-143 "Pukin' Dogs" Best name
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May 20, 2015 05:02
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MANGOSTEEN CURES P posted:Why is VF45 "The pelicans" bombing a downsy cloud? Probably for the same reason one of VFA-211 "Checkmates" is punching out.
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May 20, 2015 05:09
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It's still kind of surreal seeing just the giant wall of Hornets and Hornet variants on their considering the different platforms we were running off carrier decks even 20 years ago.
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May 20, 2015 06:14
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MANGOSTEEN CURES P posted:Why is VF45 "The pelicans" bombing a downsy cloud? Davin Valkri posted:Probably for the same reason one of VFA-211 "Checkmates" is punching out. That VFA-211 thing was the Super Hornet that crashed while taking off of CVN-71 just this month.That page is way more up to date then I realized. http://news.usni.org/2015/05/12/breaking-navy-super-hornet-crashes-in-persian-gulf-crew-safely-recovered No idea what the P-8 thing is, couldn't find any news article.
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May 20, 2015 08:05
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Had a relative working as an Army dentist at Bragg when that happened, ended up getting pulled in to help with ID'ing the bodies from dental records. Pretty grim stuff, two planes of jet fuel doesn't leave much behind. Except steel beams 
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May 20, 2015 12:03
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Sperglord Actual posted:Confronting the legacy of the KGB in Latvia. The information we in Sweden got from the CIA about Swedish Stasi agents is still being kept secret, only one researcher got access to the material and wrote a book about it with the condition that she kept the agents neutral and was sworn to secrecy. She was also forced to destroy all her research material this last New Year's Eve, you have to wonder what names are in that archive seeing how only one party wants to open the archives to the public.
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May 20, 2015 18:22
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I found something, out of Osama Bin Ladin's libriary, of all places. (They released Bin Ladin's collected bookshelf, probably so the media would get distracted from the whole "the story of Bin Ladin's assassination was almost entirely fictional.') Anyway, a paper on French procurement reforms. TL:DR: 1. All procurement decisions are handled by the Délégation Générale pour l’Armement or DGA. The head of the DGA reports only to the defense minister. 2. The DGA is composed of top flight engineering talent, to reduce information asymmetry and thus keep defense contractors from padding bills with "unexpected expenses." 3. These DGA people are put in charge of a program or area for an extremely long time, 8-10 years, which means they actually know their poo poo. 4. Contracts are complected - the French abandoned cost plus as wasteful. They returned to fixed price contracts, but through mechanisms I don't really understand, manage a good faith relationship with the contractor. Before contracts are entered into, the DGA assesses where the technological risks lie, which are built into the contract. At the same time, who pays for cost overruns depends on who's fault it is. 5. The National Assembly can only vote for or against a defense budget; they don't get a say about individual items.
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May 20, 2015 21:59
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I suppose that explains why the Rafale isn't quite the dumpster fire the Eurofighter was.
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May 20, 2015 22:05
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Sounds quite similar to how the Swedish equivalent used to work up until the 2000's. Now it's all consultants everywhere, except on the Gripen program which is still a longer term project which still has engineers inhouse doing some heavy lifting.
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May 20, 2015 22:11
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Lord Tywin posted:The information we in Sweden got from the CIA about Swedish Stasi agents is still being kept secret, only one researcher got access to the material and wrote a book about it with the condition that she kept the agents neutral and was sworn to secrecy. She was also forced to destroy all her research material this last New Year's Eve, you have to wonder what names are in that archive seeing how only one party wants to open the archives to the public. In Finland we have "Tiitinen's list", a list of names of Finnish Stasi contacts that the then head of the national security service - his name was Tiitinen, natch - suppressed in 1990. We still don't know the names on the list but the fact that it was suppressed has lead to a lot of speculation, especially regarding high-ranking members of the Social Democratic Party.
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May 20, 2015 22:36
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Forums Terrorist posted:I suppose that explains why the Rafale isn't quite the dumpster fire the Eurofighter was. Isn't it still more expensive per unit than the F-22 though?
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May 21, 2015 11:44
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MikeCrotch posted:Isn't it still more expensive per unit than the F-22 though? Evidently the question is asked so much that when you Google "Rafale Unit Cost" it actually headlines the results page with: The average unit procurement cost of fighter aircraft produced in the NATO area is $112.43 million, and varies in a ratio of almost 3 to 1 from $62.1 million for a Dassault Rafale C to $177.6 million for a Lockheed F-22A. Oh, never mind, you were referring to the Eurofighter, which evidently costs a touch north of $196m USD per unit when you factor in development/production costs. So yes. I think it's also telling that the Eurofighter wasn't designed with carrying the B61 in mind, especially on the German and Italian planes. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 11:59 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 11:54
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MikeCrotch posted:Isn't it still more expensive per unit than the F-22 though? Flyaway cost for a Rafale is around the same as the F-35A (just north of $100 million). It's a lot lower than the F-22's ~$150 million-ish.
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May 21, 2015 15:38
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Mr. Showtime posted:Flyaway cost for a Rafale is around the same as the F-35A (just north of $100 million). It's a lot lower than the F-22's ~$150 million-ish. Except it'll actually fly... away....
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May 21, 2015 16:00
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Mr. Showtime posted:Flyaway cost for a Rafale is around the same as the F-35A (just north of $100 million). It's a lot lower than the F-22's ~$150 million-ish. Flyaway cost for a Rafale is expressed in euros, and for a long while euros were worth a lot more than dollars. Now that they're much closer to parity, the flyaway cost in dollar was reduced by around 25%. Furthermore, the only flyaway cost you can get for now is that paid by the French armed forces* and that cost is inflated by the French VAT of 20%. (Price billed is 120% of price excluding VAT. VAT is not applied to exports, so you can divide the domestic price by 1.2 to get the export price.) So when you take that into account, at current exchange rate (€1=$1.1118): Rafale B: €74 millions -> without taxes €62 millions -> $69 millions Rafale C: €69 millions -> without taxes €58 millions -> $64 millions Rafale M: €79 millions -> without taxes €66 millions -> $73 millions (* because the Egyptian and Qatari contracts include a lot of other things, such as weapons, spares, training, and maintenance contracts, even a frigate in Egypt's case, so you can't just take the announced total value and divide by 24) Interestingly, the profit margin is fixed by contract. 93% of the price (before VAT) must correspond to the actual production cost, Dassault gets 7% profit margin. So for the total value, 77.5% is production cost, 16.666% is VAT, 5.833% is Dassault's profit margin. Obviously, would try to negotiate a better profit margin for export customers. India decided to abandon negotiations with Dassault and instead go for government-to-government negotiations, allowing them to buy the planes at the same flyaway cost as France gets.
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May 21, 2015 18:21
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Cat Mattress posted:Flyaway cost for a Rafale is expressed in euros, and for a long while euros were worth a lot more than dollars. Now that they're much closer to parity, the flyaway cost in dollar was reduced by around 25%. Furthermore, the only flyaway cost you can get for now is that paid by the French armed forces* and that cost is inflated by the French VAT of 20%. The French government is taxing itself on military purchases?
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May 21, 2015 18:33
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VAT is an european tax and it's applied uniformly. It's applied on everything except a handful of things, such as banking and insurance products. NATO is VAT exempt (not kidding).
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May 21, 2015 18:41
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bitcoin bastard posted:The French government is taxing itself on military purchases? Yes, and not just on military purchases either. Same reason why public function workers have to pay an income tax, even though this income comes directly from the state: the law is the same for everyone.
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May 21, 2015 18:53
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I just looked it up, seems that it's indeed a eu thing. The Netherlands paid 95 million euros in vat purely over international purchases (domestic purchases the vat numbers are not recorded). Also 1.3 billion of the 7? Billion euros are pensions and another 370 million are allocated to the marechaussee who are more border police than military. So actual military spending is less substantial than it would seem at first sight.
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May 21, 2015 18:59
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A dire portent given how anemic eu military budgets are as is
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May 21, 2015 19:04
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The Vulcan XH558 AKA the coolest V Bomber will be taking its last flight this summer, 55 years after its first flight.quote:This is going to be a spectacular summer for Vulcan XH558 but also a very emotional one; it is with considerable sadness that we have to confirm that we are about to enter the final flying season. After she has landed from her last flight this autumn, there will no longer be a flying Vulcan. We are therefore going to work especially hard to make summer 2015 a memorable flying season for every Vulcan enthusiast across the country. We intend to use every flying hour available, taking her to more people than ever before, celebrating other iconic British engineering achievements and saluting the heroes of Britain’s legendary V-Force in which she played a vital role during the knife-edge tension of the Cold War. http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/665/82/Important-announcement-on-the-2015-season.html    rip sweet prince
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May 21, 2015 19:24
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Taking my two oldest to their first proper airshow this summer (RIAT), looking forward to seeing, hearing and feeling it there!
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May 21, 2015 19:42
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A Handed Missus posted:The Vulcan XH558 AKA the coolest V Bomber will be taking its last flight this summer, 55 years after its first flight. She's been flying today, beautiful to watch while I was mowing the lawn earlier.
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May 21, 2015 23:52
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  Be interesting to see if the 53 could carry the Super Hornet but I doubt it.
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May 22, 2015 04:18
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