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Zark the Damned posted:Welp, this is a thing now... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RnxDN8jmok Lest we forget: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndLhrTw-wgA Similarly, the guys making the Mordheim game said if it does well enough they'd like to do a Necromunda game. Mordheim looks cool and like I might pick it up, but you couldn't keep me away from a Necromunda game.
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May 21, 2015 17:07
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Soulfucker posted:I still have my Forgeworld Avatar I got as a gift from another goon back in the day, but I never bothered picking up the new Eldar book for obvious reasons. How has it changed? It's a Lord of War. So is the Wratihknight. So if you're like me and want to use both models you can either: A) Take two detachments and thus two LoW. Or B) Take the Warhost mega-formation which locks you into (Guardian Battlehost for instance) three units of Guardian Defenders, a Farseer, a War Walker, Vyper, and Support Battery. Then you can take a up to twelve Wraithknights and three Avatars. Like I say, both flexible and stupidly rigid at the same time. Specific Avatar changes from the last book: Khaine Awakened gives Furious Charge and Rage, as well as Fear. Wailing Doom adds +2S and Armourbane to the melee version. He cannot buy Exarch powers.
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May 21, 2015 17:19
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Lord Twisted posted:I play fairly regularly at Dark Sphere. There's a £6 buyin apoc game on the 30th which I'll be at. Saw that apoc game event on their site, but can't make it down on that date unfortunately. I've been to the odd tourney at DS and the local hams seem to have some pretty full-on lists IIRC.
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May 21, 2015 17:20
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Gapey Joe Stalin posted:
what Isn't introducing Fear as a rule for the Avatar of Khaine pretty redundant, what with it being a MC? Goddamnit GW, I bet I could write more thought-out rules at this point. Speaking of which, where did I put that 2nd Edition Battlebible...
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May 21, 2015 17:29
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Soulfucker posted:what It's a typo. Khaine Awakened gives Furious Charge, Rage, and Fearless to any Eldar within 12" of the Avatar. I quite like these changes for the Avatar. I love putting my FW one on the table but have always thought it was a bit weedy with S6 attacks. Now it gets Rage and S9 Armourbane on the charge, it should wreck a lot more poo poo.
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May 21, 2015 17:35
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xtothez posted:It's a typo. Khaine Awakened gives Furious Charge, Rage, and Fearless to any Eldar within 12" of the Avatar. Fair enough - sounds like it's a better deal for the points now than with the 6E book, but I doubt I'll pick the new one up unless there's a massive price drop or anything.
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May 21, 2015 17:39
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I think the Avatar still suffers from being slow, but it might be more viable in a foot slogging force.
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May 21, 2015 17:44
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Boon posted:I think the Avatar still suffers from being slow, but it might be more viable in a foot slogging force. A good observation. I hardly play in a competitive setting (my gaming circle is terrific, and some people love trying out gimmick lists) so I could definitely see it perform well. Soulfucker posted:Speaking of which, where did I put that 2nd Edition Battlebible... I found it! I uploaded it here in case someone else feels like looking at terrible rules from an age gone by.
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May 21, 2015 17:56
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PeterWeller posted:Yeah, I think this is the real problem. It's not like they ruined the game's balance. That was always bad. Giving the D to non-superheavy or gargantuan units was a terrible move, but the end result is just yet another dominant Eldar codex. And that's basically a GW tradition at this point. I just plain cannot afford to update my Marines right now. If Space Marines were the only faction I played and 40k were the only game I played, I could swallow it, but it isn't, so I can't. Maybe in another six months I'll get the book on sale or something.
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May 21, 2015 17:56
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I only have Marines and Tau. If it were a $50 codex like the last one, I'd grumble but probably give in. But if the $100 rumors are true, gently caress it. Guess I'll only play Tau despite having twice as many Marines.
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May 21, 2015 18:03
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An Angry Bug posted:I only have Marines and Tau. If it were a $50 codex like the last one, I'd grumble but probably give in. But if the $100 rumors are true, gently caress it. Guess I'll only play Tau despite having twice as many Marines. Oh yeah, my above post assumes it'll be $60 like the last one, which was already way overcosted. If it's $100 I will never, ever buy it.
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May 21, 2015 18:38
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Zark the Damned posted:Welp, this is a thing now... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RnxDN8jmok I'm thrilled that the graphics in the trailer look like they also came from 1988.
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May 21, 2015 18:48
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Sulecrist posted:Oh yeah, my above post assumes it'll be $60 like the last one, which was already way overcosted. If it's $100 I will never, ever buy it. Seriously. I don't think I've ever paid $100 for a book that wasn't a textbook.
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May 21, 2015 18:55
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TheChirurgeon posted:Seriously. I don't think I've ever paid $100 for a book that wasn't a textbook. I spent about that on the first edition of this, but it's in a whole other stratosphere
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May 21, 2015 19:18
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Hihohe posted:I dont think i will be using Dscythes simply because i like playing the game for more that 2 turns. I bet you spent more time setting up and tearing down than you did playing.
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May 21, 2015 19:22
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I spent about that on IA13 and I'm not unhappy with it, even if I had to hold my nose to buy from the GW empire generally. Forge World books have always seemed like a pretty high value to me, the production values are good and they don't feel like just shovelware printed to sell me models--though maybe in my case that's because I've always known going in that I'm not going to buy the models; anything I decide to use from a FW book is going to be converted and/or sourced elsewhere.
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May 21, 2015 19:24
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Where are people getting the $100 codex number? Only the current marine book and the current Eldar one are $58 US, and the rest are all lower than that.
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May 21, 2015 19:37
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Boon posted:I think the Avatar still suffers from being slow, but it might be more viable in a foot slogging force. They're not really slow in the War Host, they move 12" , so while they can't charge after wards doing that, they can still get to where they need to go. A Footslogging Warhost would actually be pretty boss. Cheap Troops who move 12" and still fire plus get a free heavy weapon in every squad. That's not bad at all.
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May 21, 2015 19:45
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Hollismason posted:They're not really slow in the War Host, they move 12" , so while they can't charge after wards doing that, they can still get to where they need to go. Well yeah, but by foot slogging force I basically assumed you'd only ever use the Warhost for that.
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May 21, 2015 19:46
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The Warhost is a really amazing Detachment, that move 6" always when using Battle Focus is pretty crazy awesome sauce, especially for troops like Warp Spiders. Everybody is all focused on Jetbikes and D-Weapons , but I got a chance to play against a similar foot slogging list and it was just incredibly frustrating to deal with playing Necrons, because everything moved so quickly. Playing against Warp Spiders w/ Necrons sucks hard.
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May 21, 2015 19:48
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Squifferific posted:Where are people getting the $100 codex number? Only the current marine book and the current Eldar one are $58 US, and the rest are all lower than that. Some rumor said it would cost a little less than twice the cost of the current codex, but there's not a price list out there or anything.
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May 21, 2015 19:53
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xtothez posted:While there's truth in both sides, I don't really see it as any different to how 40k originally started. Rogue Trader itself was less of a rulebook and more of a framework to push little metal dudes around a table with some semblance of narrative. The difference being that Rogue Trader was explicitly a narrative RPG game using miniatures (like Necromunda), whereas modern 40K is a wargame. Things that are acceptable in one type of game are not necessarily so in another because different types of games have different goals in mind. That's why the rules for the game shifted so drastically between RT, 2E, and 3E- the way the game was played and what type of game it was (RPG wargame, skirmish wargame, battle wargame) changed significantly, necessitating a change in rules. If GW actually made 40K into a narrative game, that could be fine, too- but they want the best of both worlds, and are instead making the worst. JackMack posted:Which would you say are the most balanced? Why do you think we are not playing these games? There are numerous wargames out there with better balance than 40K- almost all of them, honestly. Firestorm Armada, X-Wing, Warmachine/Hordes, and Infinity stand out as some of the most prominent examples of games with better design ethos than GW. (Other games might qualify as well, such as Dystopian Wars or Malifaux or Bolt Action, but I can't speak about them from direct experience.) As to why people don't play them, well, that's an amazingly broad question, but probably the simplest possible answer would be "because everyone already plays 40K." Wargames require two players, and the more players there are of a given game in your area the better your chances of actually being able to use the plastic toys you paid for. More popular games typically see more new player entries because there is a better incentive for them to join that game (as opposed to others) and more chance that they are introduced to that game first. That said, all of these games are carving chunks out of GW's market share for a variety of reasons. GW still probably has the best production of plastic models in the industry, but their lead is slipping.
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May 21, 2015 19:55
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$100 for a codex is crazy town. For less than half that money you can get into 30k, which has more units, more options, and gets regular updates despite being out a few years. How the hell is it becoming the budget option?LabiaBadgerTickler posted:You'd think with a team of at least 10 designers, they could all band together and make a semi-coherent rule structure. Part of my fascination with GW is that I haven’t a drat clue why they do many of the things they do. I worked on a lot of games in my day, both in design and the business side. Despite this, I’m puzzled at some of their decisions. It feels like they operate in a complete vacuum of best practices. At some level it has to be cultural. Which usually means the poo poo starts from the top and oozes its way down. Reynold posted:Buff whirlwinds plz, kthnx They did in 30k and they still suck. Even with squadrons and costing like 60 points a model. Rapiers and other artillery do everything better.
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May 21, 2015 20:07
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AbusePuppy posted:There are numerous wargames out there with better balance than 40K- almost all of them, honestly. Firestorm Armada, X-Wing, Warmachine/Hordes, and Infinity stand out as some of the most prominent examples of games with better design ethos than GW.. Also, some people like the aesthetic of 40K - I sure as hell prefer it over the examples you mentioned. I don't play games just to play games - I like to be invested in the background of a game as well.
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May 21, 2015 20:09
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berzerkmonkey posted:To add to that, both suffer from rock/paper/scissors issues. In other words, my build beats your build because you don't have anything that could counter me. (Disclaimer: I don't play either game, I just have heard this quite a lot about both systems - perhaps the designers have fixed these issues.) Not that you outright said it wasn't, but my impression is that this is also a horrible problem for 40k. 
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May 21, 2015 20:22
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berzerkmonkey posted:None of those are army level wargames. At best, Warmachine and Infinity are squad based. To add to that, both suffer from rock/paper/scissors issues. In other words, my build beats your build because you don't have anything that could counter me. (Disclaimer: I don't play either game, I just have heard this quite a lot about both systems - perhaps the designers have fixed these issues.) In Warmachine, being forced to anticipate and solve skews is a feature, not a bug. If you don't like that, you probably won't like any competitive asymmetrical game.
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May 21, 2015 20:22
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SRM posted:Some rumor said it would cost a little less than twice the cost of the current codex, but there's not a price list out there or anything. Yeah, we are reacting to a rumor here, but no one should be hard-pressed to believe that a $100 codex for 40k's most popular army is unlikely
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May 21, 2015 20:30
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I play Warmachine sometimes and while it's fun I definitely enjoy some aspects of 40k better. I really do enjoy rolling buckets of dice and 40k has less 'gotcha!' moments where crazy combos annihilate you out of nowhere if you're inexperienced and don't see them coming. I always really, really dig the 40k aesthetic. That said, 40k outpriced me a long time ago. I got away with building an ork army when AoBR came out and slugga boys were a dime a dozen.
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May 21, 2015 20:32
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JerryLee posted:Not that you outright said it wasn't, but my impression is that this is also a horrible problem for 40k. Kind of? Balance is not the same as "x" always beats "y" always beats "z" no matter how you come at it. 40K's problem lies more with stuff like codex creep and a severe lack of playtesting. Sulecrist posted:In Warmachine, being forced to anticipate and solve skews is a feature, not a bug. If you don't like that, you probably won't like any competitive asymmetrical game. Again, if I'm interpreting the game wrong, it's because I'm not real familiar with it. Add to that I'm only recently coming back into 40K gaming after a long, long absence, so I could totally hate the game once I actually get a few under my belt (I'm primary focusing on Kill Team, so I'll likely not run into any major issues.) berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 20:37
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Yeah i like building a narrative in 40k, when i buy a new commander i paint them and give them a name,(and maybe a little backstory (original character do not steal) Warmachine doesnt really do that for me. Thats why im digging my Eldar right now, i get to do it all over again.
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May 21, 2015 20:40
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Crossposting from the painting thread, Finally got around to editing these, so now I get to post all these pics     more pics in the painting thread
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May 21, 2015 20:51
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krushgroove posted:Crossposting from the painting thread, Finally got around to editing these, so now I get to post all these pics The weathering looks fantastic man!
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May 21, 2015 20:52
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BULBASAUR posted:They did in 30k and they still suck. Even with squadrons and costing like 60 points a model. Rapiers and other artillery do everything better. It's really a shame too. I love the look of the current whirlwind model.
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May 21, 2015 20:54
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berzerkmonkey posted:I was more under the impression that in Warmachine, if you take a particular combo versus another particular combo, you're always going to win. Same with caster kills - I don't like the idea of one model/unit being the "be all, end all" of the game. There is no combo in Warmachine that will "always" win against another given combo, assuming that the players are using scenarios. If you mean "almost always," there are certainly combinations with strong advantages against other combinations, but not to a degree greater than is present in Warhammer. In that respect, the main differences between the two games are (1) the presence in Warmachine of meaningful competitive scenarios, which admittedly the 40k community and even its developers have been getting better at over the past few years; (2) Warmachine's creators encourage its players to more actively attempt to build lists with strong advantages, and its players do; and (3) 40k intentionally includes more random elements and less risk mitigation, which reduces the comparative importance of player skill. Warmachine is a very deep, hard game, and most people who don't enjoy it probably don't actually want a deep, hard game.
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May 21, 2015 20:57
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Sulecrist posted:Warmachine is a very deep, hard game, and most people who don't enjoy it probably don't actually want a deep, hard game. I didn't enjoy it because 1) the people who made up the local WM scene were giant unfun shitlords and 2) the Skorne models at the time were metal, and were the stupidest loving things to assemble. After filling in the chest cavity of three titan gladiators just to keep the top-heavy fuckers together I was fed up with the whole thing.
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May 21, 2015 21:27
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The aesthetic of 40k is something that no other game can touch, and why 95% of third party models don't do it for me. Aside from Victoria Lamb, Spellcrow (to a degree) and a few things from Puppetswar, nobody really gets it. The universe, models, and scale appeal to me in a way that no other miniatures game out there does. Yeah, there's some cool WM/H models (hell, I've got a Khador force) but it doesn't click for me like 40k does. The moment I saw this: And this:  I was hooked. krushgroove posted:Crossposting from the painting thread, Finally got around to editing these, so now I get to post all these pics
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May 21, 2015 22:01
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SRM posted:The aesthetic of 40k is something that no other game can touch, and why 95% of third party models don't do it for me. Aside from Victoria Lamb, Spellcrow (to a degree) and a few things from Puppetswar, nobody really gets it. The universe, models, and scale appeal to me in a way that no other miniatures game out there does. Yeah, there's some cool WM/H models (hell, I've got a Khador force) but it doesn't click for me like 40k does. Pretty much this for me as well. There are just parts of the 40k setting and such that appeal to me. Sure there might now be models that I really agree with in the looks department but then I just come across one of those units that just make me go "oooh" and just like instantly. I might not really like the stubby look of the Leman Russ but the same time I haven't really seen that many Sci-fi tanks that look as good as a whole like one and not seem kinda half-assed or cheap.
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May 21, 2015 22:13
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SRM posted:Aside from Victoria Lamb, Spellcrow (to a degree) and a few things from Puppetswar, nobody really gets it. Kromlech?
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May 21, 2015 22:33
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berzerkmonkey posted:None of those are army level wargames. At best, Warmachine and Infinity are squad based. To add to that, both suffer from rock/paper/scissors issues. In other words, my build beats your build because you don't have anything that could counter me. (Disclaimer: I don't play either game, I just have heard this quite a lot about both systems - perhaps the designers have fixed these issues.) *shrug* You didn't ask for army-level wargames. 40K wasn't even an army-level wargame until 3rd edition. I don't play WM/H, but Infinity isn't really all that R/P/S-y at all; most every model in the range is at least reasonably useful and it's very easy to build an army that can handle a wide variety of enemies with a good degree of facility. There are certainly some things you have to watch for (TO camo, full reaction, TAGs, and link teams) but all of these have multiple ways they can be dealt with in every faction, so it's not like you're boxed in to taking particular options. The aesthetic thing is definitely an advantage for 40K- as I said, GW has some of the best model designers in the business, but it's not like one aesthetic is inherently superior to another; there are people who like the slick anime feel of Infinity, or the steampunk feel of WM/H, or the creepy horror vibe of Malifaux. krushgroove posted:Crossposting from the painting thread, Finally got around to editing these, so now I get to post all these pics Very nice looking. I really need to get back to working on my own Baneblade chassis. Do the hull bits just "sit" into the main body, or did you magnetize them on? NTRabbit posted:Kromlech? I would also argue that Micro Art Studios does good AdMech stuff with their Iron Brotherhood, Scibor does some really nice "heroic" scaled Marines, and a handful of other companies do good one-off stuff as well.
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May 21, 2015 22:48
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And Dreamforge Games does great IG and Marine stand-ins, and are making some kind of eldar/tyranid/necron hybrid as the next army. And everything they have is currently on sale for 30-40% off right now, so squads of 20 marine equivalents are 40 bucks, 20 IG equivalents are 30, etc
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