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Kellsterik posted:Does noted historical documentary "The Burning Times" get a namedrop in M20? No but the Burning Times themselves do. No Jews or Muslims or Protestants or weirdo Catholics just pagans hurt.
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May 21, 2015 23:41
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tatankatonk posted:I'm glad that we discovered that talking about oWoD mage is the actually annoying kernel of truth in the "why is everyone talking about Mage for twenty pages" whining. I agree, we should talk about nWoD mage more instead.
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May 21, 2015 23:42
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Daeren posted:This is basically why at the end of the day I really can't take most of oMage too seriously. As presented, it's a giant, world-shaking, cosmological conflict over what pattern the wallpaper should have while the entire house is on fire and falling off a cliff, and the writers themselves rarely seem to understand that. I've always thought that explicitly intended or not it was the perfect reason to keep Mage in the oWoD. Here you are with nearly infinite potential, and it doesn't matter because everyone decided *you* don't matter. And when faced with the stark reality of having to answer the question of "Well, why *do* you matter?" absolutely nobody has come up with an answer. So the Traditions blame each other, or the Technocracy, or humanity, and they fight for supremacy or freedom or enlightenment....and nobody cares, and because the apathy of everyone is given cosmological fiat they are wasting their time. The Technocracy is in basically the same ship, but they at least had the good sense to join up with the winning side while slowly killing themselves. While the Traditions will be crushed, the Technocracy will just slowly fade away. Apathy is the Great Evil of all the lines, sometimes implicitly and sometimes explicitly. I always thought Changeling would have been a lot more horrifying if the implication was that people still have dreams, faded as they may be, they just aren't dreaming about the things that made the Changelings anymore. The hopes and fears and desires that lead to trolls and slaughs and sidhe are outdated, so the Dreaming no longer empowers them. They can't get to Arcadia because it no longer has primacy in the Dreaming, and is physically someplace else entirely and slowly fading away. It doesn't mean there won't be something else to replace them in the time that's left, it just means that there's nothing the Changelings can do to adapt to this new world. It doesn't want them. Banality isn't The Man that just doesn't get how wild and free you are, Banality is the jaded audience no longer entertained by your story.
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May 21, 2015 23:47
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Pope Guilty posted:The best use of consensus reality in a game is The Esoterrorists, wherein magic isn't real because humanity doesn't believe in it. The titular Esoterrorists are a cabal of evil pieces of poo poo who want to be the Seers of the Throne, so they carry out what are basically terrorist attacks on consensus reality- staged occult killings, faked evidence of the existence of monsters, hoaxes that make it look like magic is real- in order to break down humanity's belief that the world is fundamentally orderly and safe from magical dangers. The PCs are basically trying to a) wreck their poo poo and keep magic fake and b) make sure nobody ever knows about it. So...it's a game where you play the Technocracy? 
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May 21, 2015 23:47
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Cabbit posted:I agree, we should talk about nWoD mage more instead. Yes, we should!
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May 22, 2015 00:26
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Yes, we should! Becoming a Banisher is a natural and morally required reaction to discovering the plague on reality that is Wizards Being Wizards, discuss
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May 22, 2015 01:00
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I hope this is what the next Harry Potter series is about
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May 22, 2015 01:04
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Pope Guilty posted:The best use of consensus reality in a game is The Esoterrorists, wherein magic isn't real because humanity doesn't believe in it. The titular Esoterrorists are a cabal of evil pieces of poo poo who want to be the Seers of the Throne, so they carry out what are basically terrorist attacks on consensus reality- staged occult killings, faked evidence of the existence of monsters, hoaxes that make it look like magic is real- in order to break down humanity's belief that the world is fundamentally orderly and safe from magical dangers. The PCs are basically trying to a) wreck their poo poo and keep magic fake and b) make sure nobody ever knows about it. The veil out is one of my favorite concepts in a game.
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May 22, 2015 01:05
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Daeren posted:Becoming a Banisher is a natural and morally required reaction to discovering the plague on reality that is Wizards Being Wizards, discuss Has there ever been a setting where it's been a genuine net positive that wizards are about? It seems like at best the good wizards just put the kibosh on the No Sense Of Right And Wrong wizards.
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May 22, 2015 01:06
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Night10194 posted:Has there ever been a setting where it's been a genuine net positive that wizards are about? It seems like at best the good wizards just put the kibosh on the No Sense Of Right And Wrong wizards. This question is made complicated by the fact that NMage's morality is kind of at 90 degrees since it's oriented not around the humanist concerns our morality focuses on and more on the fact that the Supernal World exists and the world is a prison designed to fool us into believing that the Supernal World doesn't exist and we are but rough matter. Gnosticism is weird, is what I'm getting at.
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May 22, 2015 01:09
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Pope Guilty posted:Gnosticism
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May 22, 2015 01:11
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Once we conceive of a setting in which it's a genuine net positive that humans are about, we can get to the wizards thing
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May 22, 2015 01:33
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There's always Middle-Earth. The other six wizards probably outweigh Saruman.
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May 22, 2015 02:02
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Cabbit posted:I agree, we should talk about nWoD mage more instead. When even you are saying this, it's truly all over.
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May 22, 2015 02:13
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Pope Guilty posted:The best use of consensus reality in a game is The Esoterrorists, wherein magic isn't real because humanity doesn't believe in it. The titular Esoterrorists are a cabal of evil pieces of poo poo who want to be the Seers of the Throne, so they carry out what are basically terrorist attacks on consensus reality- staged occult killings, faked evidence of the existence of monsters, hoaxes that make it look like magic is real- in order to break down humanity's belief that the world is fundamentally orderly and safe from magical dangers. The PCs are basically trying to a) wreck their poo poo and keep magic fake and b) make sure nobody ever knows about it. The Esoterrorists is quite cool- one of the things I like about it is how the titular conspiracies can actually summon monsters, but they're amorphous subjective things that take their shape from the will of the summoners, so any big esoterrorist group is going to have a lot of mad biologists and Disney imagineers alongside the occultists and what have you, in order to make sure that the form they want their monsters to collapse into actually works with the normal laws of biology as well as what little magic powers they can squeeze out of the current consensus.
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May 22, 2015 02:40
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Dammit Who? posted:The Esoterrorists is quite cool- one of the things I like about it is how the titular conspiracies can actually summon monsters, but they're amorphous subjective things that take their shape from the will of the summoners, so any big esoterrorist group is going to have a lot of mad biologists and Disney imagineers alongside the occultists and what have you, in order to make sure that the form they want their monsters to collapse into actually works with the normal laws of biology as well as what little magic powers they can squeeze out of the current consensus. I really enjoyed The Book of Unremitting Horror, the monster manual for The Esoterrorists and Fear Itself (an RPG set in a world where the Esoterrorists are winning)- it presents monsters which are often genuinely disturbing and fit into a modern setting more readily than more traditional D&d-style critters.
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May 22, 2015 03:12
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Yes, we should! Here's a question to ponder, then: Given the new presentation of the Abyss, is Missingno an example of an abyssal manifestation? If so, how many mages have used it to attempt to duplicate things like artifacts thus far?
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May 22, 2015 04:06
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I was listening to old John Carpenter soundtracks on youtube (cause they own) and when I got to the Christine Theme I got to thinking she'd be pretty easy to do in the nWoD. Hell, there's about a thousand ways to do her! She could be a ghost posessing a car, or a spirit possessing the car to spread it's influence. An Abyssal manifestation. A True Fae's Title. A really creepy artifact/miscellaneous magic item created by someone hosed up. A God-Machine project. Or my favourite: maybe a car came to life and went evil with no explanation because that kind of poo poo can just happen in the World of Darkness.
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May 22, 2015 06:49
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MonsieurChoc posted:I was listening to old John Carpenter soundtracks on youtube (cause they own) and when I got to the Christine Theme I got to thinking she'd be pretty easy to do in the nWoD. Hell, there's about a thousand ways to do her! She could be a ghost posessing a car, or a spirit possessing the car to spread it's influence. An Abyssal manifestation. A True Fae's Title. A really creepy artifact/miscellaneous magic item created by someone hosed up. A God-Machine project. Or my favourite: maybe a car came to life and went evil with no explanation because that kind of poo poo can just happen in the World of Darkness. The nWoD's emphasis on the fact that there's a bunch of random awful weirdness out there that doesn't fit into any categories is something that I've always loved about it.
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May 22, 2015 07:04
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Up until Beast, the nWoD was also really good at making sure no group of supernatural knew everything. Even Mages had giant gaps in their knowledge where they just went "gently caress if I know." Edit: I don't mean to say Beasts are necessarily right about the world, but from the preview it does seems as if they feel like they do, and that's a huge paradigm change from how every other supernatural sees the world.
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May 22, 2015 07:08
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Pope Guilty posted:The nWoD's emphasis on the fact that there's a bunch of random awful weirdness out there that doesn't fit into any categories is something that I've always loved about it. This is definitely a good thing for a horror setting to have. There's something really satisfying about a group of supernatural shitkickers or whatnot running into something, scratching their heads, and being like 'Holy poo poo, what was that and how can we make sure we never see it again?'
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May 22, 2015 07:25
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Night10194 posted:This is definitely a good thing for a horror setting to have. There's something really satisfying about a group of supernatural shitkickers or whatnot running into something, scratching their heads, and being like 'Holy poo poo, what was that and how can we make sure we never see it again?' The fiction from the Hunter corebook, which features ghouls, really sets the mood for that.
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May 22, 2015 07:33
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I looked through my copy of Midnight Roads to see if there was Killer Car in there, but unfortunately no. It did mention Christine in the intro though. Man, I miss those books. Stuff like Mysterious Places and Asylum and Midnight Roads was so loving great. I really wish OPP started doing those cool World of Darkness books again.
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May 22, 2015 07:52
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I was frankly really surprised that Armory Reloaded had such fun story hooks.
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May 22, 2015 12:55
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Gilok posted:I was frankly really surprised that Armory Reloaded had such fun story hooks. If someone's using the monster hunting judo team I want to hear about it.
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May 22, 2015 13:59
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Obligatum VII posted:Here's a question to ponder, then: Given the new presentation of the Abyss, is Missingno an example of an abyssal manifestation? If so, how many mages have used it to attempt to duplicate things like artifacts thus far?
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May 22, 2015 14:16
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The worst part is there's so many more cool stuff they could do with the core nWoD books, but it seems OPP decided to really focus on the various Supernatural gamelines. Were they simply not selling enough? I thought books like Second Sight Antagonists were hard to find because they sold out super early.
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May 22, 2015 15:34
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MonsieurChoc posted:The worst part is there's so many more cool stuff they could do with the core nWoD books, but it seems OPP decided to really focus on the various Supernatural gamelines. Were they simply not selling enough? I thought books like Second Sight Antagonists were hard to find because they sold out super early. Not wanting to speak for Rich or Rose, but I expect what you're seeing is just the result of a focus on rolling out the second edition lines rather than abandoning the blue books altogether. After all, Hurt Locker is still coming, as is the second edition World of Darkness core rulebook.
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May 22, 2015 15:41
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GimpInBlack posted:Not wanting to speak for Rich or Rose, but I expect what you're seeing is just the result of a focus on rolling out the second edition lines rather than abandoning the blue books altogether. After all, Hurt Locker is still coming, as is the second edition World of Darkness core rulebook. I dunno, the last WoD release is Mirrors, five years ago.
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May 22, 2015 15:53
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MonsieurChoc posted:I dunno, the last WoD release is Mirrors, five years ago. Hurt Locker is blue-book and is in previews. So is Dark Eras.
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May 22, 2015 16:07
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Mors Rattus posted:Hurt Locker is blue-book and is in previews. So is Dark Eras. There's also, ya know, the God-Machine Chronicle.  EDIT: And I'm pretty sure a bunch of blue-book SASs have also trickled out over the last couple of years, but I could be wrong.
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May 22, 2015 16:17
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Hurt Locker is blue-book, and I'll probably get it when it's out, but I'm not sure if God-Machine counts considering it's a second edition: it's not really a supplement, is it? Likewise with Dark Eras: I love it and it looks great, but I'm not sure it counts as a core WoD supplement when it's actually a bunch of historical settings for different lines. SAS are just adventures, not supplements. I mean, it's good that these books came out/are coming out, but that's not exactly what i was talking about? I think?
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May 22, 2015 16:30
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MonsieurChoc posted:Hurt Locker is blue-book, and I'll probably get it when it's out, but I'm not sure if God-Machine counts considering it's a second edition: it's not really a supplement, is it? Likewise with Dark Eras: I love it and it looks great, but I'm not sure it counts as a core WoD supplement when it's actually a bunch of historical settings for different lines. SAS are just adventures, not supplements. Fair enough, but I'd still count GMC as a blue-book supplement--most of the book is the chronicle guide itself, after all, with an Appendix devoted to the rules update. There was also Glimpses of the Unknown in 2011. But really, if you're discounting SAS products, blue book WoD isn't that far behind any of the other lines in terms of products released in the last five years--part of the switch to PDF/PoD publishing meant that supplement churn was no longer necessary to maintain shelf space, so the overall number of products released has dropped. Consider: Requiem had three non-SAS products released since 2010 (Strange, Dead Love; Blood Sorcery, and 2nd Edition). Forsaken had three as well (Chronicler's Guide, Translation Guide, 2nd Ed) Mage had the most with four (Mage Noir, Imperial Mysteries, Left-Hand Path, and the Translation Guide), and that's mostly because Dave and Malcolm aggressively pitched stuff for the line. Mummy and Demon, being new lines, have gotten a bit more support obviously, but still. I wouldn't write off the blue book line, or assume Onyx Path is doing so, just yet.
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May 22, 2015 17:04
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That is a comforting thought. I guess it's nostalgia: I started really getting into rpgs 10-11 years ago, when the nWoD was just starting, and these early years were just full of cool stuff coming out. Every new book or game line felt fresh and exciting. I guess this is how oWoD players must have felt a decade before that.
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May 22, 2015 18:54
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I can't remember any linkable post-type things offhand but from some conversations at cons and such I'm pretty confident there's still developer interest in making that kind of book, so it's some combo of their prioritization and the priorities at CCP putting it off.
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May 22, 2015 19:07
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I keep gamely pitching Blue-books as well. There's only so many resources to go around.
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May 23, 2015 02:48
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Dave Brookshaw posted:I keep gamely pitching Blue-books as well. There's only so many resources to go around. *cracks whip* Back to the Mage mines
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May 23, 2015 03:14
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Dave Brookshaw posted:I keep gamely pitching Blue-books as well. There's only so many resources to go around. Needs to be a University/Archives book like the police precinct and hospital blue books.
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May 23, 2015 05:57
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Mexcillent posted:Needs to be a University/Archives book like the police precinct and hospital blue books. Which is the hospital? I keep meaning to grab 13th precient, but I was unaware of a hospital themed book.
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May 23, 2015 10:28
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Soonmot posted:Which is the hospital? I keep meaning to grab 13th precient, but I was unaware of a hospital themed book. Asylum actually covers all medical professionals. We could do with an Organised Crime one, IMO.
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May 23, 2015 11:26
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