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Janus Owl posted:The job outlook in town here is pretty good, and there also appears to be more entry type level jobs. However, these don't pay well, about $3.50 less than I make now. Would it be worth it to take a pay cut if it meant getting out of retail and breaking into the law field? (This would only apply if we stay where we are though) But what about Day Care costs?
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May 18, 2015 19:47
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I can't see any point in studying hard and spending money on education for a pay cut. Could you work toward retail management?
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May 18, 2015 20:17
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To jump in on this particular question since my wife is at work:BarbarianElephant posted:I can't see any point in studying hard and spending money on education for a pay cut. Could you work toward retail management? As a family we want her out of retail. It'd only be a temporary paycut too right? The median pay of $47,000 seems more than worth it. That's about $20,000 more than she makes now.
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May 18, 2015 21:06
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Knyteguy posted:To jump in on this particular question since my wife is at work: I wouldn't rely heavily on "median pay" unless you actually looked at jobs and what they're paying. It's important to understand how competitive the market is, whose applying for the jobs, and the likelihood that she'll end up with a job after going through the classes. Would she be able to take these classes while working? Would she need to quit and then just hope she comes out the other side with a job? These are the sort of questions you need answers to before getting too committed. I like the idea of transcription as the in-between job, but your wife has the good insurance currently so her leaving her job is going to be a massive economic blow to your family. Just remember to look at things from the "bigger picture" perspective and don't get stuck on "best-case" scenarios. Maybe do transcription alongside your current job to see what the real earning potential is before jumping ship (something that was suggested about 12-18 months ago I think....).
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May 18, 2015 21:46
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Knyteguy posted:To jump in on this particular question since my wife is at work: that median pay is likely seriously skewed by the relatively high density of paralegals in high cost of living large urban centers. paralegals in reno and san diego likely make significantly less than paralegals in san francisco and los angeles
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May 19, 2015 03:24
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the talent deficit posted:that median pay is likely seriously skewed by the relatively high density of paralegals in high cost of living large urban centers. paralegals in reno and san diego likely make significantly less than paralegals in san francisco and los angeles You very well could be right. It looks to be close here: http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Paralegal-I-Salary-Details-Reno-NV.aspx but salary.com isn't always the most accurate in my experience. I'm trying to let my wife answer most things since she wants to I think. She's definitely excited about this which is cool, and a plus. But I'm definitely not planning on San Diego yet. We'll see what happens, but frankly even if the job is answered I may say no even if it would be really cool. I'm trying to take this all one day at a time. Ideally I can get a business off the ground (expanding/finishing one up now) and live wherever the hell I want to. I'll go live in Vietnam or Thailand until my son is ready for school. Just playing but it would be fun.
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May 19, 2015 03:46
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@Janus: You mention having a college degree of some sort. Have you ever considered just applying for jobs that you may or may not be particularly qualified for? Just fluff up the resume and start spamming it places. There are many jobs out there where the specific job skills are acquired on the job, but employers are looking for people that can think and write well.
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May 19, 2015 08:02
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n8r posted:@Janus: This is how I got my job. I have a degree in plant biology but worked random office jobs picking up skills to put on a resume until I got my gig now that isn't pulling in millions but is steady and pays around 40k. Will eventually use this experience to move up to something else. I fell rear end backwards into medical records at first, and places always seem to be hiring for that.
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May 19, 2015 14:21
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n8r posted:@Janus: I have applied to several office type jobs as well as medical office type jobs so that I could build skills that could be used in a variety of jobs. I've applied to pretty entry type stuff but I haven't even gotten an interview offer, which means to me that either my resume is terrible or these offices don't care much that I have a degree if I don't have office experience. Is there a type a field in particular that is willing to hire grads even if they don't have experience in that field?
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May 19, 2015 19:07
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Reno still has some of the highest unemployment in the country, 7-8% last I checked, and that always makes job hunting really difficult. You should post your resume (redacting all the sensitive info) so we can figure out if that's part of the problem.
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May 19, 2015 19:36
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Janus Owl posted:I have applied to several office type jobs as well as medical office type jobs so that I could build skills that could be used in a variety of jobs. I've applied to pretty entry type stuff but I haven't even gotten an interview offer, which means to me that either my resume is terrible or these offices don't care much that I have a degree if I don't have office experience. Is there a type a field in particular that is willing to hire grads even if they don't have experience in that field? Have you looked at state government jobs? You don't live in Carson City, where the majority of state jobs would be, but maybe you can find employment elsewhere in the state. If it's anything like Illinois, state employees get stupid salaries for very little work, and amazing benefits. I'd also look into city or county stuff too. There are usually tons of office and clerical positions in government.
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May 19, 2015 19:39
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Janus Owl posted:I have applied to several office type jobs as well as medical office type jobs so that I could build skills that could be used in a variety of jobs. I've applied to pretty entry type stuff but I haven't even gotten an interview offer, which means to me that either my resume is terrible or these offices don't care much that I have a degree if I don't have office experience. Is there a type a field in particular that is willing to hire grads even if they don't have experience in that field? If you're getting 0 interviews then it's probably your resume. Or you applied to 2-3 jobs and then gave up. When I just graduated college and had 0 office experience, 0 internships, and 0 "real world experience in my field" (for accounting which all of those things are super important), I would probably get one phone interview for every 20-30 applications. This was back in 2011-2012 when the job market was worse than it is now. It's a numbers game for entry level. You have retail experience, a bachelors degree, and you've been at your current job for a decent amount of time. That should be enough experience to get you interview for "Office Admin", "Clerk", "Receptionist", etc.. However you should expect to end up with a lot of dead leads before you get an interview or an offer. What was your degree in?
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May 19, 2015 19:39
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U.S. Barryl posted:Have you looked at state government jobs? You don't live in Carson City, where the majority of state jobs would be, but maybe you can find employment elsewhere in the state. If it's anything like Illinois, state employees get stupid salaries for very little work, and amazing benefits. I'd also look into city or county stuff too. There are usually tons of office and clerical positions in government.
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May 19, 2015 19:46
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marchantia posted:This is how I got my job. I have a degree in plant biology but worked random office jobs picking up skills to put on a resume until I got my gig now that isn't pulling in millions but is steady and pays around 40k. Will eventually use this experience to move up to something else. I fell rear end backwards into medical records at first, and places always seem to be hiring for that. Have you looked into Manpower or similar temp agencies? The pay isn't much above minimum wage, but if you can type, use MSOffice software and come across as a professional on the phone/in person, it's a good way to get office experience and build a resume.
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May 19, 2015 20:00
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Thank you everyone for the advice on types of jobs to apply to. The only government type jobs that I've ever applied to our Post office and DMV. I haven't tried a temp agency before because I wasn't sure about taking a pay cut. I'm still unsure if it's advisable to take a pay cut if it means getting out of retail and into an office setting where I can learn more skills that would be applicable in more varieties of settings. I will start looking more into government and court jobs. I just saw on our local news that the city of Sparks is supposed to have a whole bunch of government and city jobs opening up, so I'm definitely excited to see if maybe I could get into one of these. Here's a link to my resume, I hope you guys can help me to get it to be a lot more cohesive: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lMVKj9GanJxUm9KJ8tmrty2-tZvqNEZMNIeioQBrPDA/edit?usp=sharing Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help!
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May 21, 2015 15:33
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A quick look at your resume made me think you could potentially go for office manager positions which pay a good salary. Money isn't the only factor; usually office jobs come with the benefit of a regular schedule and can sometimes be more flexible if you have kids. I work for a good company and two coworkers just had babies within the last 6-8 months. They work a slightly modified schedule with the office manager working from home here and there as she needs. Smaller, locally based companies may be more accommodating in that regard. Emphasize the paper pushing and supervisory side of your positions, managing people for the last 9 years looks really good. If you have experience with bookkeeping software / bank deposits / etc put that on there. If you don't, start working on getting really good with excel, QuickBooks, etc. You can always sign onto a temp agency and see what they push at you. You're not obligated to accept an assignment from them if offered one.
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May 21, 2015 15:48
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Bugamol posted:If you're getting 0 interviews then it's probably your resume. Or you applied to 2-3 jobs and then gave up. When I just graduated college and had 0 office experience, 0 internships, and 0 "real world experience in my field" (for accounting which all of those things are super important), I would probably get one phone interview for every 20-30 applications. This was back in 2011-2012 when the job market was worse than it is now. It's a numbers game for entry level. This was both my and my gf's experience. I had a family member pass my resume along and landed my first in-career job, and my gf was persistent with sending resumes for office jobs. She landed one and embellished her duties (0 lies, she could have said way more, she managed the office for a small insurance agency) and landed another better office admin job. The jobs are satisfying (she loves helping people, period, doesn't matter if it's mental health or coordinating office tasks - I wouldn't have guessed this when we met!) and flexible enough so she can continue school part time. I should mention, prior to the office jobs she did other forms of customer service and light sales, which she talked up in her resume and interviews. I'd suggest finding a recruiter, too. Both of us and a ton of my friends have had excellent luck with that route. One from leveraged a recruiter found job offer to a very good promotion and entirely new department at his then/now-current company. Also, spam your resume! The key is getting your resume in front of as many people as possible.
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May 21, 2015 16:13
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That resume is a good start but very bland and thus comes across as either weak or unremarkable. Go to the Ask A Manager blog and read all of her entries and advice on resume writing and building. She is FANTASTIC and could really be of help to you. You have experience and seem capable (I mean, for an Internet comedy forum  ) but you need to give hiring managers an incentive to call you back.
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May 21, 2015 19:49
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Janus Owl posted:Thank you everyone for the advice on types of jobs to apply to. The only government type jobs that I've ever applied to our Post office and DMV. I haven't tried a temp agency before because I wasn't sure about taking a pay cut. I'm still unsure if it's advisable to take a pay cut if it means getting out of retail and into an office setting where I can learn more skills that would be applicable in more varieties of settings. I will start looking more into government and court jobs. I just saw on our local news that the city of Sparks is supposed to have a whole bunch of government and city jobs opening up, so I'm definitely excited to see if maybe I could get into one of these. I've been a paralegal for awhile. With some administrative skills and experience, and your B.A., you might be able to forgo a paralegal certificate program. I don't know anyone who has a certificate. Everyone I have worked with has a liberal arts B.A and a little office experience. You'd probably have to work harder at getting hired (because employers will be looking for EITHER newly minted college graduates OR experienced paralegals), but I think you could potentially save some money if you tried the market first. You could start as a "Legal Assistant" or "Legal Secretary," both of which are job titles that typically get paid less but might ease you into paralegal responsibilities. There could be benefits to having the certificate that I'm not aware of (especially if they can place you somewhere or get you work experience), but I just wanted to point that technically you don't need it. In some legal practice areas, transcription is a very valuable skill for paralegals/assistants, so any work you do on that would look good on your resume. As for the 47k average salary, I think you should expect to make less than that, probably somewhere in the 30s is a safer bet, since you don't live in a big city. My impression is the high paying jobs are at big corporate law firms, large corporations (usually hiring more experienced paralegals), and intellectual property in general. If your husband is looking at positions near San Francisco, I'd consider looking for IP paralegal opportunities. They pay relatively well with a higher ceiling for raises over the course of your career than most other paralegal practice areas. (SF has a huge IP presence because of all the tech/software companies). Everywhere I worked the hours were great and very structured/predictable, and it was a nice quality of life in most ways. It's the lawyers that have it hard. Anyway, I hope this is helpful.
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May 21, 2015 21:04
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^^ Thanks everyone I'm sure my wife will respond. Quick side note on the job interview that I'm doing tomorrow: recruiter said to keep a number in mind that I would take, add $10,000 to that, and he'll finish the negotiations for me. I was thinking of $95,000 I would take, making that $105,000. Any input on that? I figure I can make up any difference in that $75/hr billable time if I got the offer. Edit: the recruiter reconfirmed the suit (and tie). Luckily it's all tailored up and ready to go. It's not the greatest suit in the world, but if it gets me through this interview who cares? Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 00:38 on May 22, 2015 |
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May 22, 2015 00:22
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Thank you everyone. I really appreciate the advice and I feel like I have a better idea of how to proceed. I'm going to edit my resume to make it stand out more to hiring managers and then I will post it again. I'm going to apply, apply, apply and hopefully I will be able to get into a new career where I can advance and grow.
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May 22, 2015 01:33
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Knyteguy posted:^^ Thanks everyone I'm sure my wife will respond. At 95k what is your total household income the day you move there - assuming your wife doesn't have a job compared to what it is today?
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May 22, 2015 05:52
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Knyteguy posted:Quick side note on the job interview that I'm doing tomorrow: recruiter said to keep a number in mind that I would take, add $10,000 to that, and he'll finish the negotiations for me. Why is the recruiter negotiating for you? I'd tell him you can handle negotiating.
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May 22, 2015 07:51
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Knyteguy posted:^^ Thanks everyone I'm sure my wife will respond. So... Let me get this straight: You're seriously thinking about moving away from your family, after having just had a newborn, including away from your mother who you broke your lease to move closer to, in order to change your household income from $88k to $95k (admittedly, with your wife not working), to live in a region with a notoriously high cost of living and a state income tax? I mean, it's better for your career, I guess. And 130 billable hours, I mean, isn't that what SlowMo had to do for his job? 180 hours a month if 70% of the time you spend at work is billable hours, 215 hours a month if 60% ends up being billable. Are you concerned about the work hours at all? I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. But I think you need to do some actual, serious analysis of several things: 1. What would your budget look like in the new city, using THAT CITY'S cost of living 2. What would your post-tax income look like (assuming your wife doesn't work)? How much are you increasing it by? 3. What kind of work hours would you be putting in? Would you be getting home early enough to see your kid before he goes to bed, and stuff like that? 4. How does this affect your sister and mother -- you moved to be closer to your mom and you're currently helping your sister pay the bills (by paying for babysitting). Is this going to cause strain on your relationships with them? How much strain? Will you have to visit them more often, and how much will that cost? 5. Do... you have a childcare plan for the new city? If you take a new job, it's usually expected that you'd stay there for at least a year. Is this the best job offer you think you can get, or is it just the first one better than your current one? I can't help but feel like you're being impulsive yet again, even though this time you're impulsively doing something that is generally a good idea. (To clarify, I mean "I don't think you should accept an offer immediately and I don't think you should stop looking other potential leads as soon as one place looks like they might give you an offer," not that you shouldn't be looking.) Also maybe I'm just biased against recruiters but you do know he just wants to place you somewhere as soon as possible for the commission, right, so he's just going to try and get you to take whatever the first offer he can get for you is? Colin Mockery fucked around with this message at 10:03 on May 22, 2015 |
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May 22, 2015 09:45
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KG is being totally impulsive, and it seems like for every few months of decent financial decision making is followed by major decisions that totally blow his budget up. He was doing OK prior to breaking his lease, but then he just HAD to move RIGHT NOW to be close to his mother. Now, it's no problem to move 1000 miles away. If he wants to take this offer, and bring it to his current job and ask for a raise, that might be an OK strategy. Moving to another city, unless he's making 125k+ in an area that has similar COL would be stupid. Even then, while it may be financially smart, his quality of life will go downhill significantly. Alone in a brand new city with a brand new baby seems like a great way to feel really isolated and really lacking support.
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May 22, 2015 14:53
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Knyteguy posted:^^ Thanks everyone I'm sure my wife will respond. http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/reno-nv/san-diego-ca/60000 A random COL calculator that says that you'd need to make about $96,000 in San Diego to break even with your current salary. So you'd be earning a bit more. But your wife wouldn't have a job. And your taxes would be higher. And you'd be far from immediate family. You have to ignore the straight dollar figure and realize that in real terms, you'd only be making a bit more than you do now. Would you move if San Diego had the same cost of living as Reno, but the pay bump would be from $60k to $65k, and your wife would have no job? Because that's basically what this is. And your taxes will be higher, so it might not even be a pay bump at all in real terms!
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May 22, 2015 16:17
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Horking Delight posted:Also maybe I'm just biased against recruiters but you do know he just wants to place you somewhere as soon as possible for the commission, right, so he's just going to try and get you to take whatever the first offer he can get for you is? Right. The recruiter wants to get KnyteGuy placed ASAP so that he can move onto the next person. It is better for him to get 2 people into $100,000 a year jobs (commission on $200,000) than one person into a $120,000 a year job (commission on $120,000). So the recruiter has no incentive to get KnyteGuy the absolute best job possible, just a good enough one. Usually this works for people, because they need a job *yesterday* since they are unemployed. But KnyteGuy already has a great job, and can take his time and play hard to get in order to get a great job in a great place at a great salary. But he is very vulnerable to salespeople as his personality is impulsive, which meshes well with the salesperson patter of trying to close a deal as fast as possible, even if it is not the best possible deal. The sheer number of interviews this recruiter has lined up for KnyteGuy in completely random locations suggest he is not giving KnyteGuy the service he needs, but just flinging poo poo at the wall and hoping something sticks. No doubt KnyteGuy's employer has a fair inkling that something is up due to the random and often-changed days off, and might already be pondering replacing him. But the recruiter doesn't care about that.
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May 22, 2015 16:59
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the talent deficit posted:Why is the recruiter negotiating for you? I'd tell him you can handle negotiating. I was about to say the opposite. Knyteguy has shown that he is impulsive and a terrible negotiator, and should let someone else do this for him. I completely agree that $96k in San Diego is a lateral pay move or even a step down all things considered. He should be at $96k and a Cost of Living adjustment added ON TOP of that. Plus relocation expenses.
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May 22, 2015 17:04
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Then he can use us as a proxy for negotiations. He should be getting several days to think about an offer, at the bare minimum, and at least we're trying to look out for his best interests and have no incentive to do otherwise. If I told a recruiter what offer I'd be willing to accept, I'd expect them to get me the bare minimum and then tell me I wasn't good enough to get any more while telling the employer I was a steal at that price, WHILE doing whatever they could to ensure I couldn't interview anywhere else (either by eating up my schedule or whatever). Also, your two-week exclusivity bullshit is ended.
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May 22, 2015 17:14
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Horking Delight posted:Then he can use us as a proxy for negotiations. He should be getting several days to think about an offer, at the bare minimum, and at least we're trying to look out for his best interests and have no incentive to do otherwise. You must have worked with some terrible recruiters. I don't know if your described phenomenon is more specific to coding positions, but I work weekly with tech recruiters (not coders, but technical sales), have been on both sides of the table, and have not seen that level of smarmy ever.
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May 22, 2015 17:18
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BarbarianElephant posted:The sheer number of interviews this recruiter has lined up for KnyteGuy in completely random locations suggest he is not giving KnyteGuy the service he needs, but just flinging poo poo at the wall and hoping something sticks. No doubt KnyteGuy's employer has a fair inkling that something is up due to the random and often-changed days off, and might already be pondering replacing him. But the recruiter doesn't care about that. Completely agree. It should be about quality interviews with companies that match desired area and career projectory, not 20 different interviews all over the country.
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May 22, 2015 17:23
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KG should drop this recruiter and find someone who specializes in remote / work from home jobs. Or, god forbid, just do some job searching of his own and start applying for things that fit his needs.
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May 22, 2015 18:30
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n8r posted:KG should drop this recruiter and find someone who specializes in remote / work from home jobs. Or, god forbid, just do some job searching of his own and start applying for things that fit his needs. Or start his own side business where he is a contractor that charges $$ per hour.
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May 22, 2015 19:25
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Cost of living comparisons are extremely important, but you guys need to at least compare apples to apples, ie compare his income here vs there, not their combined income here vs only his income there.
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May 22, 2015 23:09
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Interview over. They say they'll have an offer to me by Friday. At the airport don't want to type out a bunch
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May 22, 2015 23:30
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Cost of living comparisons are extremely important, but you guys need to at least compare apples to apples, ie compare his income here vs there, not their combined income here vs only his income there. We're comparing household income to household income. Better to not assume KnyteWife will be able to get a job immediately, to be on the fiscally safe side. That said, congratulations, Knyteguy! Don't accept anything immediately, of course, make sure you take some time to think about your options (including whether you'd be able to negotiate it up and the opportunity cost of taking this job instead of holding out for a better one).
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May 22, 2015 23:42
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Horking Delight posted:We're comparing household income to household income. Better to not assume KnyteWife will be able to get a job immediately, to be on the fiscally safe side. Lower expenses with no childcare, though.
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May 23, 2015 00:14
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Congrats KG!Horking Delight posted:We're comparing household income to household income. Better to not assume KnyteWife will be able to get a job immediately, to be on the fiscally safe side.
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May 23, 2015 00:40
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Congrats KG! Looking at income alone is a trap, costs will go up too, no more cheap sister daycare, and with KG's track record of wanting to see family, I imagine there's be more travel for family visit costs
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May 23, 2015 00:52
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Rudager posted:Looking at income alone is a trap, costs will go up too, no more cheap sister daycare, and with KG's track record of wanting to see family, I imagine there's be more travel for family visit costs
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May 23, 2015 01:08
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