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Burkion posted:OK DoctorWhat, you're a good kid. That is a bizarrely specific thing to dislike a person for, man.
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May 22, 2015 20:08
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DoctorWhat's continuing defense of Kill the Moon is curious and surprising to me
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May 22, 2015 20:13
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Bicyclops posted:That is a bizarrely specific thing to dislike a person for, man. I just really dislike the term haters because of how it generalizes people who have genuine complaints and criticisms, and brushes them aside as if their opinion is lesser. So some one who defends anything with that broad statement? Yeah they tend to draw ire.
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May 22, 2015 20:19
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MrL_JaKiri posted:DoctorWhat's continuing defense of Kill the Moon is curious and surprising to me I'll admit, it's mostly a reaction to the "BAD SCIENCE A BLOO BLOO BLOO" thing. I have approximately zero respect for "BUT HOW CAN THE MOON BE AN EGG, THAT'S STUPID" train of thought.
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May 22, 2015 20:22
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DoctorWhat posted:I'll admit, it's mostly a reaction to the "BAD SCIENCE A BLOO BLOO BLOO" thing. I have approximately zero respect for "BUT HOW CAN THE MOON BE AN EGG, THAT'S STUPID" train of thought. Most of my ire with that episode has largely faded thanks to what followed it, but there are other serious issues with the episode as well, not the least of which being invalidating everything at the end with the magic new moon nonsense. It's a story where if no one did anything, everything would have worked out just fine. But unlike the Big Bang, where that was something of the seasonal plot as the Doctor tried to tell them that he had things under control don't try to be more clever than him it won't go well- here the Doctor also did dick all. Happy endings and puppies for everyone, shame about those guys dying oh well.
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May 22, 2015 20:27
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I also killed Kill the Moon. Burkion posted:I just really dislike the term haters because of how it generalizes people who have genuine complaints and criticisms, and brushes them aside as if their opinion is lesser. I think it tends to get used once the argument carousels have run their course and there isn't much else left to say, but I don't think I ever use the term, so I don't really have a horse in that race.
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May 22, 2015 21:22
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HD DAD posted:You can thank Jenna Coleman for changing her mind about leaving at the very last second for that fake-out. For a Christmas special it works so much better as a dream that brings them back together. Still, if you want a dark and sad ending, the final shot of the episode is a tangerine, hinting that they're still in the dream forever!!
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May 22, 2015 22:01
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2house2fly posted:For a Christmas special it works so much better as a dream that brings them back together. Except no one said they wanted a sad ending. And I'd have been fine if she just went "Oh you silly man, we had loads more adventures."
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May 22, 2015 22:04
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2house2fly posted:Still, if you want a dark and sad ending, the final shot of the episode is a tangerine, hinting that they're still in the dream forever!! [inception noise]
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May 22, 2015 22:14
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DoctorWhat posted:I'll admit, it's mostly a reaction to the "BAD SCIENCE A BLOO BLOO BLOO" thing. I have approximately zero respect for "BUT HOW CAN THE MOON BE AN EGG, THAT'S STUPID" train of thought. My stepdaughter had that thought. All they needed was some technobabble...hell, say "That's no moon!"...but they didn't.
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May 22, 2015 22:21
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I don't really care much about scientific accuracy in my silly space wizard TV show, but Kill the Moon really puts that to the test, and I think that's entirely down to the way it's framed in the story. It's not that it's dumb science, it's that when you should be thinking about the dilemma they're in and the way the Doctor abandons Clara to sort it out on her own, the episode has grabbed you by the lapels and shouted THE MOON IS AN EGG WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.
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May 22, 2015 22:40
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Adapting to survive has been the Cyberman thing for 50 years or thereabouts, it's not like the Borg were that innovative Yeah, it's kind of a tough point for the Cybermen. They were the Borg before the Borg were, and ideally a good Cyberman episode will probably also feel a lot like a good Borg episode of Star Trek. But since the Borg are more famous, especially in outright combat roles, it's the Cybermen who come off looking like the unoriginal ones.
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May 23, 2015 01:58
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The moon secretly being a space dragon egg is a super cool idea you could do a lot with, but the weird "the moon's gravity has increased" plot excuse was a bit dumb. I'm not 100% sure I feel about the climax of the episode. It had a weird soup of very good and extremely bad elements.
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May 23, 2015 02:25
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Burkion posted:I just really dislike the term haters because of how it generalizes people who have genuine complaints and criticisms, and brushes them aside as if their opinion is lesser. This is Dr Who. There are no genuine complaints.
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May 23, 2015 02:32
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BSam posted:This is Dr Who. There are no genuine complaints. A certain Forest episode would disagree with you. As would just. A lot of things So many Why Pip and Jane why
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May 23, 2015 04:28
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Burkion posted:A certain Forest episode would disagree with you.
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May 23, 2015 05:01
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BSam posted:Nah I liked it. What's wrong with you? This is a genuine question. What brain malfunction causes Forest of the Night to be appealing?
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May 23, 2015 05:12
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The Clara: impossible girl thing was conceptually interesting but it didn't really work. I guess you could see it as a metaphor for how guys tend to treat women as these mysterious puzzles that need to be solved when they're actually just people.
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May 23, 2015 06:59
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Spatula City posted:The Clara: impossible girl thing was conceptually interesting but it didn't really work. I guess you could see it as a metaphor for how guys tend to treat women as these mysterious puzzles that need to be solved when they're actually just people. I think the only way it could've worked is if she kept getting offed every week and the Doctor just ran into a local version of her wherever he went.
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May 23, 2015 07:57
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Oh my God! They killed Clara!
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May 23, 2015 08:12
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"The Moon is an egg" I can live with. "The Moon is gaining mass because it's an egg" is rather more problematic. Then again, I think my scepticism sensors were always going to be firing in an episode that starts with taking the Space Shuttle - infamously a vehicle that can't get out of low Earth orbit - to the Moon.
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May 23, 2015 08:12
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Cleretic posted:What's wrong with you? There's really nothing wrong with Forest that some (a lot of) polish and a pointed "are you sure this is the message you want to be sending" conversation at one or two points couldn't have fixed. The atmosphere, both visually and thematically, is incredible, there's some solid characterization happening, and the Doctor's interactions with the children when he's not talking about psychiatric medication are nothing short of delightful.
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May 23, 2015 11:18
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2house2fly posted:Oh my God! They killed Clara! I still think it was wasted that Clara never met another Clara. Still time, though.
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May 23, 2015 11:48
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Deep Breath owns, Kill the Moon double owns, Forest is imperfect but has lots of good to it - not least it's an episode of Doctor Who featuring children where they aren't completely insufferable. The word 'haters' also owns.
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May 23, 2015 11:55
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My main problem with Forest of the Night is Clara's "better for everyone to die, than some people to live" speech. It feels weirdly jarring and not like anything anyone reasonable would ever think, kind of like it's just shoehorned in to talk about the Doctor's situation as the last of his race.
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May 23, 2015 12:11
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MikeJF posted:I still think it was wasted that Clara never met another Clara. Still time, though. She just has in the current comic in DWM! Splinter-Clara is not taking it well.
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May 23, 2015 12:19
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Android Blues posted:My main problem with Forest of the Night is Clara's "better for everyone to die, than some people to live" speech. It feels weirdly jarring and not like anything anyone reasonable would ever think, kind of like it's just shoehorned in to talk about the Doctor's situation as the last of his race. I don't remember the speech that well, but I think she has a point. I mean, making that choice for other people is a bit weird, but having a number of people survive below the minimum viable population would be pretty harrowing on those involved. I don't think it's as clear cut as the idealistic "living is better". I'm not sure being one of the last 20 humans -- especially if none of those other ones are your family -- is necessarily worth living. It's a thing that's up to the person and the circumstances.
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May 23, 2015 12:26
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Sure, but she doesn't even ask them, just, welp, let's pack these children off to die. In fairness it's not a good, smart or fair thing to ask a child "would you rather just your parents and everyone you know died, or all that AND you die too?", but I feel like in a given situation where the question is, "should I allow a child to die?" you should usually err on the side of "do not allow child to die". e: also it's Doctor Who so "minimum viable population" probably wouldn't be a thing. The universe isn't that gritty and various technobabbly ways of getting around that problem are all over!
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May 23, 2015 12:36
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docbeard posted:There's really nothing wrong with Forest that some (a lot of) polish and a pointed "are you sure this is the message you want to be sending" conversation at one or two points couldn't have fixed. The atmosphere, both visually and thematically, is incredible, there's some solid characterization happening, and the Doctor's interactions with the children when he's not talking about psychiatric medication are nothing short of delightful. Also trees definitely don't burn, they make the perfect defense against a solar flare
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May 23, 2015 13:10
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I really don't care even if there was a real botanical explanation for that (I'm not saying there is, just if), like sufficiently hydrated trees are super fire retardant or something. There's a certain level of violating folk knowledge that you can't do in fiction. It'd be different if this was The Magic School Bus or something and it belabored the point for education, but even if it were correct it violates so much cultural programming over firewood and forest fires it's mind breaking.
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May 23, 2015 13:18
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2house2fly posted:Still, if you want a dark and sad ending, the final shot of the episode is a tangerine, hinting that they're still in the dream forever!! But wait, the Doctor was already stuck in a dream from Amy's Choice! It really is Inception, except the layers are being added extremely slowly!
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May 23, 2015 16:18
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Basically, take the 'forest overtakes London' visual and the 'lost school trip hangs out with the Doctor' setting and keep that. Trash everything else, start again. Oh, keep the tiger. But do it better. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:03 on May 23, 2015 |
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May 23, 2015 17:01
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Forest of the Night was a failure of execution problem, really. See, I know it's a bad episode of Who when I'm actively bothered by scientific inaccuracies. Most of the them I can let them slide because Doctor Who is a fairy tale as much as it is science fiction. It's only when I get bored or irritated that I start going WAIT THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. and while I'm generally against overmedicating children, the episode really poorly handled that issue. A girl starts hearing voices in her head, of loving course you're going to give her medication. Like. what the gently caress Doctor Who.
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May 23, 2015 18:33
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BSam posted:This is Dr Who. There are no genuine complaints. So you just blacked out Love and Monsters, then?
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May 23, 2015 21:29
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Gordon Shumway posted:So you just enjoyed the poo poo out of Love and Monsters, then? Fixed that. And yes.
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May 23, 2015 22:21
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Love and Monsters is pure "I don't give a gently caress anymore" insanity and is awesome for it.
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May 23, 2015 22:27
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"Love and Monsters" is more enjoyable when you realise it's about Doctor Who fans and the villain is Ian Levine.
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May 23, 2015 23:45
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MikeJF posted:Oh, keep the tiger. But do it better. Still think the episode would have had way more potential if they had the school trip be to the zoo.
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May 24, 2015 05:12
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Just finished a spirited argument over spirits with my friend/local comic book store owner about how its completely possible for Paul McGann to be my Doctor. He said the TV movie is not worth the time and had no redeeming qualities,I said McGann was a drat fine Doctor and made the whole thing worthwhile. On one hand, he's agreed to stock some Big Finish next time the option comes up from his distributor. On the other hand, I now have Eric Roberts as my iPhone wallpaper...
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May 24, 2015 05:43
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2house2fly posted:For a Christmas special it works so much better as a dream that brings them back together. ...until Clara wakes up, goes into the bathroom, sees Danny in the shower, and tells him she had the strangest dream. In Dallas Texas, of course. RunAndGun fucked around with this message at 07:04 on May 24, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 06:16
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