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Supraluminal posted:Post some screenshots of layouts that are giving you trouble. You shouldn't be having traffic so bad that you get despawning vehicles on a regular basis in a city of 40k. That makes it sound to me like you're running into some fundamental problem with network design, zone layout, or both. He always complains about traffic problems, but never posts screenshots. I've asked him before. I think he just enjoys complaining.
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May 25, 2015 21:22
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Uncle Jam posted:He always complains about traffic problems, but never posts screenshots. I've asked him before. I think he just enjoys complaining. Maybe all his cities look too ugly to post. Maybe all this time he's been pretending he knows things about cities but actually he's a Bad City Designer 
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May 25, 2015 21:53
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Artificer posted:Has anyone posted a straightforward and clear guide of dam building in this game? Or building a poop dam?
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May 25, 2015 22:02
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Poil posted:I haven't seen one unfortunately. Poop dam is best dam. I could really use one.
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May 25, 2015 22:07
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Drag from one edge of area-to-be-dammed to other edge of area-to-be-dammed. If poop dam, build sewage outlets inside dammed area. I mean dams work pretty much exactly as you would expect them too, so I don't entirely understand what one might look for in a guide. "Dams are structures that block waterflow"
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May 25, 2015 22:10
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Okay cool but how do I make it not flood my city? Why does it sometimes not give me any power at all?
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May 25, 2015 22:27
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Uncle Jam posted:He always complains about traffic problems, but never posts screenshots. I've asked him before. I think he just enjoys complaining. I'm always too busy researching and installing a new package of mods and tweaks or get so frustrated I put the game down for a few weeks  My current idea is to mod the population counts to better match the european tile set AND work in relation to the simulation. I was running a realistic pop mod, which was nice because it gave realistic populations to all the buildings and made offices like 10x as job dense. The downside of course is that the game's traffic system is not balanced around realistic numbers, so you get ridiculous jams and crowded transit (even with a transit x4 capacity mod). So the current idea is to mod the population numbers for residential buildings down to the upper ends of the vanilla stats, but have buildings only slightly vary in population as they level up. So if vanilla dense residential went from 60 to 160 I'd change it to go from 120 to 160 as they level up, as the buildings don't actually get bigger as they level up, at most they convert the attic into a few extra suites. Leveling up represents the building's "class" improving and I see the upgrades representing physical improvements to the building that make it more energy efficient and higher quality. Leveled up buildings also provide more taxes per resident. If anything the population numbers should go down as the class of the building improves (wealthier people want bigger units) but a tiny increase over the levels is fine for gameplay reasons. So basically keep residential the same max numbers but have them start out very close to that max. Reduce light residential stats by a lot, there should not be 20 people living in a house, generally 1 family. Increase worker density of office by a LOT but once again keep it so a level 3 office doesn't employ that many more people, they just employ higher educated people and earn more money since the buildings are not actually getting bigger in any way. Other than public assembly use class of buildings, nothing is more "people dense" than office. Factories and such actually don't employ that many people per square foot as most of the space is taken up by stock and machinery, but floors and floors of cubical farms really packs people in. The key is to get numbers that are "realistic" in relation to the scale of the game rather than just mindlessly realistic based on the estimated square footage of the average building model of the zone/level. If that doesn't work I'll actually decrease the max level population of residential below vanilla levels and simply double the game's stated population total (I wish it was easy to just fudge this number, so your apartment building that reports 4 families and 18 people ends up reporting a more accurate 50 people for the city's total population).
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May 25, 2015 22:27
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All of this seems terribly more complex than building a proper road set. Less intersections, bigger roads feed smaller ones and so forth. My latest is to have 6lane roads have almost no intersections save each other, and 4 lanes be the next level to residential 2 lane roads. Not all roads need to be connected at both ends. 2 lane roads only connect to 4 lanes,never 6. It makes bus routes a bit of a pain though
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May 26, 2015 01:41
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Freudian posted:Okay cool but how do I make it not flood my city? quote:Why does it sometimes not give me any power at all? 
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May 26, 2015 02:54
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Baronjutter posted:stuff I feel like if you're going to mess with the game's zone density - including things like office worker capacity - you shouldn't be surprised if you have problems with traffic. What you're talking about doing should work better than just bumping up density across the board, but it's still fiddling with a system that's pretty sensitive to small changes.
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May 26, 2015 04:22
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Freudian posted:Okay cool but how do I make it not flood my city? Why does it sometimes not give me any power at all? If it is flooding your city then your dam is too high and the water is taking another route. Either lower the dam or build it at a spot where the river can rise to the edge of the dam without going over its banks. Don't worry if it is flooding over the dam, that'll fix it itself. If it is not giving you any power that all that's because there is no water flow through the dam. This is either because the water is flowing another route, or because the waterphysics glitched out for a moment (which usually resolves itself very quickly), or you are playing on a custom map and the mapmaker couldn't figure out water sources and spammed them everywhere. You can tell the last case because the river generally will not rise at all.
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May 26, 2015 04:37
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I thought I'd solved traffic problems through good design, turns out that after a certain size the game hits a limit of how many vehicles it can simulate and the problem goes away by itself.
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May 26, 2015 06:11
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Traffic++ is awesome. It has pedestrian roads but they are sort of ugly, but then I realized you can make any road a pedestrian road since traffic++ lets you control every single road segment. Speed limit, what vehicles are allowed, very detailed intersection control. For some reason I can't figure out how to turn on/off lights, "traffic control" let me easily toggle lights/stop signs but I can't figure it out with traffic++. But the main take-away is that I can simply set up choke points and ban private vehicles from them. A trickle of cars still drives through, but that's ok, I assume it's some sort of local traffic. The take-away is that I can finally build pretty cities without worrying about the rather distracting traffic mini-game that was always mucking up my perfectly reasonable plans.
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May 26, 2015 06:27
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A kind person left a comment on one of my maps and revealed to me the grand secret of controlling rivers over the course of gradual inclines.  In game it looks like a normal, regular river, working in regular, normal river ways. It does river type things, like not rolling around in massive tidal waves and overflowing everywhere.  In the map editor it looks loving hilarious. The secret is just to spam the gently caress out of water sources.
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May 26, 2015 08:42
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I made a LUT for tropical maps. It's a bit stylistic.   There's some before and afters in here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=449541402 Modest Mao fucked around with this message at 09:45 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 09:26
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Anyone made a list or collection of goon maps? Looking for something new Going to give Modest's tropical map a try but looking for some other stuff as well Le0 fucked around with this message at 09:56 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 09:50
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I'd be excited to see what ya'll make out of my map. Post some screenshots later.
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May 26, 2015 10:20
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Fish Fry Andy posted:A kind person left a comment on one of my maps and revealed to me the grand secret of controlling rivers over the course of gradual inclines. You're going to make someone cry when they dam up that river.
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May 26, 2015 10:52
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SynthOrange posted:You're going to make someone cry when they dam up that river. I actually can't figure out how to get a river that works for dams. All of my water sources go absolute batshit when I try. I suppose they will have to make do with the other power sources.  Plus, 1950s educational videos taught me that dams harm valuable farmland like this. 
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May 26, 2015 12:54
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The the trick for stable rivers is a really shallow slope, the smoother and more gradual you make the slope the better it'll work. Of course dams work better the steeper the slope so there's that to consider too.
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May 26, 2015 13:08
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Yeah, check your river beds for any sharp geography, and that they descend downstream smoothly. Also, make sure your water source is providing enough volume. I had a lot of problems with my rivers dribbling, making waves that travel upstream, and not neatly following the contour lines I had made. So far I've always been able to solve it by making the source somewhere between .01 and .05 in size and very tall. I can see your water sources neatly fill the banks, what you should do instead is create a river head that's overflowing due to a very tall single source, and direct the overflow into your riverbed. Make sure it's not so tall as to gently caress up a player's damming efforts. Also, real rivers have varying wider areas and deeper areas and dig out the surrounding geography so that it sits in a very gradual valley, all of which I make use of to help make sure the flow is even. Modest Mao fucked around with this message at 14:25 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 14:22
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mr. nobody posted:Your citizens are not pooping enough. Where's my "High Fiber Diet" Policy?
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May 26, 2015 15:37
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xzzy posted:The the trick for stable rivers is a really shallow slope, the smoother and more gradual you make the slope the better it'll work. Modest Mao posted:they descend downstream smoothly. I think that this is a misconception. Smooth, gradual inclines are one of the major causes of water simulation fuckups. If you don't believe me you can test it yourself by making a smooth gradiant map and digging a completely straight river through it which follows the slope of the gradient. If you dig the same river again, but keep the bottom of the river at a consistent height, you won't have any weird water sim problems. The game doesn't know how to handle very slight decreases in elevation at all. The reason that it appears to work when water sources are placed higher or as the sources for wider channels is because a larger volume of water masks it more easily. If you don't believe me you can even grab nlight's simulation speed mod and watch the rivers on your Hawaii map at 99x. About half of them have issues with inconsistent, bumpy water flow while following courses less complicated than the river I spammed water sources on.
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May 26, 2015 17:20
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When I made a custom map I try to keep the cool mountain rivers and waterfalls off the buildable areas or on the edges of the tiles, then have a more simple river around where the player might be building. I generally as a rule try to not have any on-tile water sources. Dams aren't too hard to do, there's only 2 main points you need to keep in mind. First, the effectiveness of the dam is in relation to how much water it's holding back, basically the bigger the dam the better of course. But I think what throws a lot of people off, and it's not always apparent on the map, is that the top of the dam needs to be lower than the water source feeding it. What could look like a great place to build a dam might actually have a water source very near the current pre-dam water level. So you build your nice dam but the water level can never raise beyond the height of the spawner. If you want to build a good spot for a dam in the map editor build a long valley with high sides and then place a water source higher than the planned height of your dam. Of course all this does nothing to solve wonky water flow. You might find your dam suddenly over-flows and floods its banks every few years for seemingly no reason. Or the dam will just stop. Or the area downsteam from the dam will randomly flood or go dry. Even without adding dams to the mix it can be hard to get a nice looking steady-state river that doesn't encounter all sorts of weird fluctuations. This is probably why most of the CO made maps have extremely deep rivers with cliff-like sides, that sort of arrangement might look awful but it's reliable. When you try to make something like a realistic river delta that has a very wide but shallow river, the game loving hates that. It's all possible though with enough fiddling, you have to strike a balance between realism/good looks and reliable flow.
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May 26, 2015 17:36
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The rivers on my map were much worse before I took some time to smooth them out with the smoothing tool. They're still pretty turbulent, admittedly, even at 3x speed. Deeper rivers always work better, that's for sure. Even the ocean isn't terribly stable. I've build some roads with houses on the beachside that are fine for quite a while, which suddenly complain about flooding and don't stop.
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May 26, 2015 17:46
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Modest Mao posted:The rivers on my map were much worse before I took some time to smooth them out with the smoothing tool. They're still pretty turbulent, admittedly, even at 3x speed. Deeper rivers always work better, that's for sure. Yeah sometimes something as simple as building some pumping stations or a road along the coast that slightly terraforms the land can send the entire ocean into chaos that can take decades to stabilize. The game obviously has to cut a lot of corners to do the water simulation in a remotely "affordable" way. I don't know how much it could be improved without upping the system requirements, which is something CO is very very against. It would be cool to have some sort of "water simulation detail" slider or set of options that made the simulation more or less "fine grained" and fast.
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May 26, 2015 17:52
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Fish Fry Andy posted:I think that this is a misconception. Smooth, gradual inclines are one of the major causes of water simulation fuckups. If you don't believe me you can test it yourself by making a smooth gradiant map and digging a completely straight river through it which follows the slope of the gradient. If you dig the same river again, but keep the bottom of the river at a consistent height, you won't have any weird water sim problems. The game doesn't know how to handle very slight decreases in elevation at all. The reason that it appears to work when water sources are placed higher or as the sources for wider channels is because a larger volume of water masks it more easily. I did test it and it works fine with careful setup. If you make the source a moderate elevation, like 200-300 and keep sea level at the default 40, and use a smooth gradient, the river will be fine. Going from 1024 to 0 will always blow up. Keeping the bottom of the river at the same elevation is just going to make dams and tunnels a huge pain in the rear end.
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May 26, 2015 19:06
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Modest Mao posted:I'd be excited to see what ya'll make out of my map. Post some screenshots later.
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May 26, 2015 19:31
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I might be in the minority on this, but I think CO wasted their time with the water simulation. I'd have been happy with a simpler, more static water model - maybe preferred it, even. It's cute that you can flood your town with poop if you want to, but I just want rivers that don't go loving batshit every year or two. It just seems like the dynamic simulation causes more trouble than it's worth.
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May 26, 2015 19:39
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Baronjutter posted:This is probably why most of the CO made maps have extremely deep rivers with cliff-like sides, that sort of arrangement might look awful but it's reliable. Apparently you've never heard of Scandinavia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord
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May 26, 2015 20:02
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Supraluminal posted:I might be in the minority on this, but I think CO wasted their time with the water simulation. I'd have been happy with a simpler, more static water model - maybe preferred it, even. It's cute that you can flood your town with poop if you want to, but I just want rivers that don't go loving batshit every year or two. It just seems like the dynamic simulation causes more trouble than it's worth. it seems like the kind of thing that could be mostly fixed with some minor parameter changes, hopefully it's on their list of things to look at
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May 26, 2015 20:04
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Gibbo posted:Apparently you've never heard of Scandinavia? Scandinavia is also awful.
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May 26, 2015 20:05
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Freudian posted:Scandinavia is also awful. Maybe but it's reliable
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May 26, 2015 20:07
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Gibbo posted:Apparently you've never heard of Scandinavia? Fjords are ocean inlets, I live by many. Rivers don't look like that though, like someone took the level terrain tool brush, set it to maximum, and drew through. But the alternative is people complaining about flooding and their dams not working on the vanilla maps. Still, slightly smoothed banks would at least let tunnels through, but I think CO was paranoid about making their rivers totally bulletproof and with extreme depth to handle a lot of water so people wouldn't have problems with pumps draining the rivers.
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May 26, 2015 20:16
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So, I'm having a bit of an issue maintaining goods inflow. My city has so far been okay with no major traffic SNAFU's, but I'm now seeing previously stable commercial zones bitching about lack of goods. Any idea what could be causing this? I heard tell that there was a bug related to commerce, though I don't know much about it.
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May 26, 2015 20:38
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Baronjutter posted:Fjords are ocean inlets, I live by many. Rivers don't look like that though, like someone took the level terrain tool brush, set it to maximum, and drew through. But the alternative is people complaining about flooding and their dams not working on the vanilla maps. Still, slightly smoothed banks would at least let tunnels through, but I think CO was paranoid about making their rivers totally bulletproof and with extreme depth to handle a lot of water so people wouldn't have problems with pumps draining the rivers. Geologically, a fjord is a long, narrow inlet with steep sides or cliffs. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fjord?s=t Dictionary.com posted:fjord  Please continue talking about how "someone dragging a level terrain tool" doesn't result in a river with steep sides. (And BTW we live in the same region. You're not nearly Scandinavian enough to be using the generic "ocean inlet" version of the word fjord) Gibbo fucked around with this message at 20:44 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 20:40
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How enjoyable is this game if you're not really strongly into Traffic Spergness? In almost every Simcity game I've found that I lose a lot of motivation to play a city once it's gotten so big that traffic issues demands I build up highways and rails and other mass transit that ruins all the designs I had. The same seems super interesting to me, but all the "Check out my super awesome mass transit design!" screenshots here are scaring me off.
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May 26, 2015 20:47
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It's really City Skylines The Traffic Simulation.
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May 26, 2015 20:49
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Yeah if you're trying to avoid traffic management like the plague then you're probably going to hate this game.
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May 26, 2015 20:52
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Since we're talking about water anyway, I'm not sure if this is on purpose or not, but your map the starting square has very little water flow. So little that if you drop a water pump (source) almost anywhere it'll pretty much suck in the pollution from your sewer pipe no matter where the sewer pipe is on the shore. I use water towers and some other buildings that come from mods so I didn't notice this, but checking it out it seems the base game leaves very little options for the waste flow. The starting square has no way to deal with poop, basically. I can add a little more flow from the river to the west but its still going to pool around those islands until you unlock something to deal with that. There should be some flow on the northwest corner of the inland shore nearest the river, and if you put the poop off the island or anywhere to the east side of the beach you should be OK, I think. I'll test that a little more.
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May 26, 2015 20:52
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