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huge episode. fantastic
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May 22, 2015 16:26
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Been waiting for a year to see that central scene animated, and Feel did not disappoint. Though I must say, Yui's despair at the end of this clip just cracks me up every time.
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May 22, 2015 19:05
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Episode 8:  the anime.Such a good show.
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May 22, 2015 21:32
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Whatever comes after this in the story, this is still the real climax. Good adaptation of it. There's a lot of good moments, but I think my absolute favorite part is, "Let me honest: frankly, it probably doesn't even have to be you." It's an acknowledgment that in the long run, none of this teenage drama really matters; somehow or another, everyone will get through it and grow up. But the characters take it seriously, because it really does matter to them, and the writing treats that with respect even as it acknowledges that they're still basically just stupid kids with petty problems. It's incredibly difficult to strike the right balance between respect, affection and exasperation for characters of this age, and this story gets it right with incredible consistency.
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May 23, 2015 05:47
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I loved how Hikigaya caught the teacher off guards with that offhanded compliment. This episode is basically the breakthrough I was waiting for.
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May 23, 2015 13:35
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this show is really good, it turns out
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May 23, 2015 16:51
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Cake Attack posted:this show is really good, it turns out yes, it is
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May 24, 2015 02:32
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I appreciate that everything Hachiman and Yukino say to each other is pretentious bullshit, because that's how pretentious teenagers would talk even when they're trying to be sincere.
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May 24, 2015 03:16
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I think this is my show of the season.
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May 24, 2015 14:29
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I was talking with someone about this show, and they were really surprised at some of the hinted interactions when I explained them. Eventually they realized this was because they had never seen an anime before that was realistically deep and subtle about it. Show is good.
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May 24, 2015 17:39
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I think my favorite little touch this episode was 8man having so much inner monologue and doing it so fast that the next line started before his last thought completely ended. Also sensei is the best.
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May 24, 2015 22:34
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This was a drat good episode to a drat good series. I was slightly confused by one part. When he was talking to Yui and Yukino, was some of it internalized or was it that he was saying all of it out loud? There was a lot of italics and that usually signifies internal dialogue but the way the scene played out it seemed like he poured everything out. e: Also sensei is the best.
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May 24, 2015 23:25
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There was a lot of inner monologue but he also said enough out loud for them to react like that.
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May 24, 2015 23:29
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Oh man. That was utterly fantastic. I don't even have anything to add. So glad I watched that first episode on a whim and kept with it.
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May 24, 2015 23:58
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My sad SNAFU tale is that I dropped the first season a couple of episodes in when it first aired because it seemed an okay but mainly generic harem thing. I only went back and watched the whole thing a few months ago when I found out it was getting a second season and I remembered it being not bad. It turned out to be not what I was expecting.
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May 25, 2015 00:01
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The title, description, and the fact that it's based off an ongoing LN are the initial factors that make the show unable to separate itself from the hundreds of other anime school shows out there; it doesn't even mind indulging in those generic harem elements sometimes. For this kind of series to stand out, it has to have strong plotting, writing, & characters, and SNAFU has all that, but I imagine it would still be difficult to explain why the show isn't so white-bread to a stranger interested in a recommendation, so the series feels perpetually underrated to me.
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May 25, 2015 01:08
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The story presents its thesis pretty well from the get-go: the first five minutes have Hikigaya go on a long rant about how all of the other students are fools. This is then immediately followed by his teacher smacking him upside the head, calling him an idiot, and then telling him that none of that was even relevant to the assignment. This is a pretty complete metaphor for the story, really. Sometimes someone else is being Hikigaya for a bit, sometimes the teacher is a metaphor for reality, sometimes the teacher is just literally the teacher, but either way someone's getting smacked with a book and being called an idiot kid, and none of them bothered to read the assignment prompt first.
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May 25, 2015 02:59
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I'm a few episodes behind, but I picked this show up initially because it seemed like maybe there was a slightly more realistic depiction of a depressed, anti-social person in anime. As the show went on, I sort of liked it because although Hiki is unpopular and has Future NEET Of Tomorrow written all over him, people with aspirations eventually need his help. People want to ask the girl out without the fear and social harm that comes with being rejected. People want the social standing that comes with being seen running for class president, but know if they win they'll be revealed as incompetent. To me, the story emphasis seemed to be that all these students are in this culture (which can be prevalent in Japan to the point of stereotype) that pushes people hard into trying to look like a winner, while also ostracizing losers, and all of them turn to the Unpopular Loner Guy who defies all of these rules because he gives no fucks about social convention. Watch this show long enough, and the shocking person isn't the guy who thinks everything in the world is rotten. It's all the "winners" who don't want to associate with him because he's a "loser" but nonetheless need him and his cynical perspective and his often inappropriately anti-social methods and his disregard for social prestige because he has made peace with himself not having any and convinced himself that he doesn't want it. They need him to bust through the red tape of Japanese society and often take a fall that he'll volunteer to take because he figures he can't get lower on the totem pole. I've had a hard time figuring out where the other two fit into it, though. Yukino seems to fit the mold of striving for excellence in everything that Hiki is the opposition to, and as he continues to take the low road and pile on successes from it she's obviously not quite sitting well with it. Yui is, ehhh? I dunno. I guess every show needs the attractive girl who notices the protagonist is trying so hard and seems like a potential love interest, even though it sort of chips away at Hiki's premise. Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see in it, but it seems like this show is advocating that people should care about saving face a little less and actually take risks. And given the conservatism that seems inherent in Japanese culture, it's probably a good message. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 10:48 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 10:46
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I think Yui's role in the story is very obvious. She wants Hikigaya to notice her, and she likes having friends like Yukinon who aren't shallow. That's why she sticks around.
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May 25, 2015 20:00
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Yui serves to showcase one of the pitfalls of 8man's mindset. The girl is practically humping his leg, but he can't acknowledge her affections, because it would mean invalidating the personal narrative he's built his identity around. By separating himself from the highschool bubble-world he get's an outsider's perspective on how to manipulate the system, but he looses the ability to benefit from the system he invests so much time manipulating. She also helps give a pretty refreshing take on the "He can't notice her advances! She can't confess!" BS you see so much of in anime. 8man consciously refuses to acknowledge her advances, not out of obliviousness, but as a defense mechanism. She can't say anything, not just out of embarrassment, but because he would turn her down. He's just not emotionally available enough to put himself out there like that.
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May 25, 2015 20:39
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Craptacular! posted:I'm a few episodes behind, but I picked this show up initially because it seemed like maybe there was a slightly more realistic depiction of a depressed, anti-social person in anime. As the show went on, I sort of liked it because although Hiki is unpopular and has Future NEET Of Tomorrow written all over him, people with aspirations eventually need his help. People want to ask the girl out without the fear and social harm that comes with being rejected. People want the social standing that comes with being seen running for class president, but know if they win they'll be revealed as incompetent. To me, the story emphasis seemed to be that all these students are in this culture (which can be prevalent in Japan to the point of stereotype) that pushes people hard into trying to look like a winner, while also ostracizing losers, and all of them turn to the Unpopular Loner Guy who defies all of these rules because he gives no fucks about social convention. It's kind of funny that you mention "saving face," because that's what Hikigaya's starting attitude is for. If changing yourself is a form of giving up, then there's no reason to change; if meeting people's expectations means surrendering your autonomy, then there's no reason to bother; if teenage friendships are shallow and self-interested, then there's no reason to care about them. He's willing to commit social suicide because he's given up--it injures him only in the aspects he's surrendered. Maybe it really doesn't hurt him, at least not that he can notice, but it's a way of keeping himself right where he is, where the world seems to validate everything he believes. Yukino is his first mirror, holding beliefs that are different in practice but still ultimately let her write other people off so she doesn't have to care about them or what they think about her. The fact that Yui contradicts their professed beliefs is the point of Yui: she tries and she keeps trying, and that lets her push past the excuses Hikigaya and Yukino have made to stop trying socially. Hayama is his second mirror, having surrendered control of his own identity so he can keep meeting the expectations of others, which is why he keeps saying Hikigaya is wrong for calling him a good person. S1 builds all of this up and makes the contradictions apparent (his bitter speech on "nice girls," his self-condemnation for being disillusioned when Yukino wasn't perfect). S2 is about tearing it all down and making him face the fact that he's still a stupid kid who needs to do some growing. Einander fucked around with this message at 22:02 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 22:00
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I think Yui getting annoyed with 8man for leaving the classroom before her when she wants to be seen leaving with him is a nice encapsulation of how their relationship has and hasn't changed over the course of the show.
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May 25, 2015 23:32
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Pavlov posted:I was talking with someone about this show, and they were really surprised at some of the hinted interactions when I explained them. Eventually they realized this was because they had never seen an anime before that was realistically deep and subtle about it. It might be a little too subtle. My wife was having a hard time figuring out why Hachiman and Yukino were fighting in the first place.
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May 26, 2015 01:40
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Angry Grimace posted:It might be a little too subtle. My wife was having a hard time figuring out why Hachiman and Yukino were fighting in the first place. Same with my guy. He's aspergers as gently caress though, so I kind of expected it from him. It might get annoying if everything tried to be that low key, but it's a refreshing change from a lot of anime that will have a subtle thing happen, and immediately have some characters go: "Did you see that!? A subtle thing just happened!" "What? A subtle thing?!?"
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May 26, 2015 01:50
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Angry Grimace posted:It might be a little too subtle. My wife was having a hard time figuring out why Hachiman and Yukino were fighting in the first place. Why are the fighting in the first place? I forgot, that was weeks ago.
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May 26, 2015 04:53
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She was beginning to become increasingly unhappy about the way Hikki did things, culminating in the student council elections which presented her with an opportunity to go 'oh well, guess I'll HAVE to be president' because she really wanted to but can't be honest about, but his solution just ended up maintaining the status quo again.
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May 26, 2015 05:27
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The_Frag_Man posted:Why are the fighting in the first place? I forgot, that was weeks ago. Yukino feels betrayed because Hikki revealed his philosophy doesn't actually prioritize genuineness through his recent attempts at solving the problems at hand. This is an issue for her, as prior to that she'd thought they were able to understand eachother and shared similar social priorities. His attempt to 'fix' the student council thing just made everything worse, as it revealed more clearly that Hikki doesn't have a goddamn clue what Yukino's actual feelings are and will gladly lean on the superficial fiction of the status quo if it suits his purposes. Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 05:49 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 05:46
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Classy Hydra posted:Yukino feels betrayed because Hikki revealed his philosophy doesn't actually prioritize genuineness through his recent attempts at solving the problems at hand. Well, the status quo thing was more the way he and Yui carried on after, once they realized that she'd actually wanted to become president. She's upset both because she couldn't become president and because she'd resolved to fix things without forcing Hikigaya to resort to his methods... And then Hikigaya, seemingly acting all on his own, found a way that involved no self-sacrifice. (Yui sees through this to realize he probably still had to pull something shady, but Yukino doesn't necessarily.) Remember the talk last week about how she only thought she understood everything. For a long time, the club's been leaning on him, and she's been confronted with the fact that he doesn't seem to ever need her help. (This is why she looks so upset when she says, "If this is all your responsibility, then shouldn't you solve it on your own?"... And it's part of why she runs out of the clubroom at the end of the last episode. He's turned everything upside down again and she's still lost.) Einander fucked around with this message at 12:50 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 12:48
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What process do you follow to analyse the work? Do you re-watch it? I feel bad that I can't type something like that out and forget a lot of the details after a few days.
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May 26, 2015 13:55
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I read what other people write in this thread and hope they're right. 
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May 26, 2015 14:06
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Sakurazuka posted:I read what other people write in this thread and hope they're right. Ah, this must be what they call meta-analysis. 
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May 26, 2015 14:08
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Sakurazuka posted:She was beginning to become increasingly unhappy about the way Hikki did things, culminating in the student council elections which presented her with an opportunity to go 'oh well, guess I'll HAVE to be president' because she really wanted to but can't be honest about,
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May 26, 2015 16:36
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I started watching this since so many people have been talking it up, and it's pretty fun 5 episodes into season 1 so far, though it's still pretty harem-y (not that that's really a problem, just that this thread is overselling itca bit in that regard). I can already tell I'm going to get really annoyed at Yui's apparent inability to slap the poo poo out of Hikki, tear into him for being a dumb butthead, and then lay some sugar on him, though.
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May 26, 2015 18:22
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that wouldn't really work though. also hikki will end up with totsuka
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May 26, 2015 18:24
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krnhotwings posted:Pardon me if this has already been explained for the billionth time, but is there any reason why Yukino couldn't just tell her friends that she wanted to run for president? Besides, even if she did tell them of her desire to run for president, Hachiman and even Yui would still try to dig deeper for a so-called 'real reason' until they had an answer than only satisfied them because they had assumed they understood Yukino when it wasn't the case at all.
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May 26, 2015 18:40
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krnhotwings posted:Pardon me if this has already been explained for the billionth time, but is there any reason why Yukino couldn't just tell her friends that she wanted to run for president? I think she just doesn't like doing what's expected of her, with a her family background being the student council president Ojou-sama type is practically in her DNA, even if it something she would actually want. There's an exchange between her and her sister about it, but I can't remember the details. 
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May 26, 2015 18:41
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Einander posted:Well, the status quo thing was more the way he and Yui carried on after, once they realized that she'd actually wanted to become president. She's upset both because she couldn't become president and because she'd resolved to fix things without forcing Hikigaya to resort to his methods... And then Hikigaya, seemingly acting all on his own, found a way that involved no self-sacrifice. (Yui sees through this to realize he probably still had to pull something shady, but Yukino doesn't necessarily.) Remember the talk last week about how she only thought she understood everything. For a long time, the club's been leaning on him, and she's been confronted with the fact that he doesn't seem to ever need her help. This follows for everything after the student council thing, but I don't think it satisfactorily explores why her frustration's been building since the start of season 2. While I'm sure she doesn't enjoy seeing Hachiman tear himself down for the sake of others, the school trip is the first time she articulated fully an issue with it; this is because though Yukinoshita's philosophy means that she'll be isolated and disliked by the majority of people around her, she still believes it gives her the moral high-ground because she's being authentic and 'honest' while the social environment of everyone else depends on easy lies and self-conceit. Throughout season 1, she was able to draw closer to Hachiman because it seemed that he had a similar philosophy- reject the world if it isn't perfect, and solve problems by tearing down those elements of dishonesty where you see them, even if you end up suffering socially for it. The school trip is the first time that Hachiman revealed that his priority wasn't honesty, but rather controlling his worldview into something he's comfortable with. IE, the exact same thing as everyone else. The student council race plays into it; ultimately, he solved the problem by ensuring that the status quo stayed the exact same for their group, despite the fact the roles they're playing in it are becoming more demonstrably fake. It's essentially the same situation as the school trip, with Hikki taking the role of Fujo-girl in ensuring nothing changes in the environment he's comfortable in. That said, I hadn't thought about Yukino feeling useless before, but it would totally explain why she's seemingly "given up". Ties into the themes of the current arc too, with Iroha and the other school president being so insecure in their own strength that they run themselves into circles. Yukino isn't one to rely on groups like they do to cover for them, but she has 'given up' in a similar fashion. Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 19:21 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 19:19
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The_Frag_Man posted:What process do you follow to analyse the work? Do you re-watch it? I feel bad that I can't type something like that out and forget a lot of the details after a few days. I usually watch it twice (Commie's release, then Crunchyroll's; if people only watch one, watch Commie's, I'm mainly watching Crunchy at this point to see how they screw up the nuances). I also tend to read Bobduh's posts/notes (on ANN/his blog, respectively); he's generally pretty insightful, and the points where he gets it wrong generally inspire me to figure out why. krnhotwings posted:Pardon me if this has already been explained for the billionth time, but is there any reason why Yukino couldn't just tell her friends that she wanted to run for president? It's the same reason Hikigaya couldn't just admit that he wanted to keep the other two from running: because if someone else gave him an easy excuse to act, then he didn't have to admit why he wanted to act. Hikigaya says high school relationships are shallow and not worth investing in, but he's willing to admit that he cares for his sister; similarly, Yukino's insistence that she's just solving a problem doesn't require her to admit that she wants to become president. Classy Hydra posted:This follows for everything after the student council thing, but I don't think it satisfactorily explores why her frustration's been building since the start of season 2. While I'm sure she doesn't enjoy seeing Hachiman tear himself down for the sake of others, the school trip is the first time she articulated fully an issue with it; this is because though Yukinoshita's philosophy means that she'll be isolated and disliked by the majority of people around her, she still believes it gives her the moral high-ground because she's being authentic and 'honest' while the social environment of everyone else depends on easy lies and self-conceit. Throughout season 1, she was able to draw closer to Hachiman because it seemed that he had a similar philosophy- reject the world if it isn't perfect, and solve problems by tearing down those elements of dishonesty where you see them, even if you end up suffering socially for it. Oh, right, I was too focused on why she's upset after the Student Council election. Yeah, his maintaining the status quo was definitely a big part of why she was upset after the field trip. I don't think it's too much of the election aftermath, though; if faced with "do this or your social group completely dissolves," most people would act, regardless of their views on status quo. It's just too drastic a consequence to do much else, and he and Yui seemed genuinely unaware that they could just join her in the Student Council. I mostly noticed the "feeling useless" thing because of an old quote from Hyouka: "You can't say you have 'expectations' [of someone else] when you have confidence in yourself. 'Expectations' are what you have when you've already given up." Yukino said she expected him to understand at the end of the Student Council arc (Crunchyroll messed up that line), which lead to a brief "wait what" doubletake and primed me to look for that in the episodes after it. So I can't really claim credit for that particular insight. Also hadn't consciously realized how that ties into the theme with Iroha and Tamanawa, so thanks for pointing that part out.(If any of you like this show and you never watched Hyouka, you should watch Hyouka. It's all good to some degree, but the Culture Festival arc is genuinely fantastic. Plus the show is pretty.) Einander fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 22:15
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Cake Attack posted:that wouldn't really work though. That just means she needs to keep on pushing harder until he runs out of flimsy excuses  . Shouldn't take too long since Hikki has no actual spine.Though yeah, he does seem to be crushing hard on Saika, so maybe Yui was doomed from the start.
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May 26, 2015 22:42
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Einander posted:I usually watch it twice (Commie's release, then Crunchyroll's; if people only watch one, watch Commie's, I'm mainly watching Crunchy at this point to see how they screw up the nuances). I also tend to read Bobduh's posts/notes (on ANN/his blog, respectively); he's generally pretty insightful, and the points where he gets it wrong generally inspire me to figure out why. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 23:18 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 23:11
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