|
Rand Brittain posted:cute, soothing animals Have you seen a possum?
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 17:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 16:24 |
|
|
They're not so bad.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
Maybe he's only familiar with webcomic possums
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
Possums can be cute if they're healthy and happy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFkdcsgPke4 Especially families of possums.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
Possums are cute. Opossums, on the other hand...
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 20:29
|
|
Brought To You By posted:Why am I not surprised that a chapter that originally focused on murder, rape related issues, and how different people choose to handle social problems has devolved into focusing on Allison and fluffing her character? I don't care if the next page is inevitably going to be Allison breaking down as she realizes that the person she loves is an emotionless manipulator and her former comrade is a murderer, none of this matters in the greater context of the chapter and it's just a diversion from the real plot. Allison has had a very rough couple of days having to endure people talk about how difficult they've had it lately and the limitations/drawbacks of their powers and it's very important that she be rewarded for her actions.
|
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 22:27
|
|
|
I'm glad to see (mostly) everyone's on the same page here re: possums.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 22:46
|
|
|
7c Nickel posted:Possums can be cute if they're healthy and happy. Strong Female Possum.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 02:44
|
|
|
The best word to describe this chapter is "aimless". If I got a second word, I'd use "pointless". And then, if I somehow got a third word in, it'd be "tone deaf". What is the point of all this? What is the throughline of this chapter that makes any of this loving matter at all?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 03:01
|
|
|
I predict the big twist is the nice robo black lady is a badgy!
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 05:03
|
|
|
Harime Nui posted:I predict the big twist is the nice robo black lady is a badgy! I don't think this is much of a twist.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 05:24
|
|
|
this chapter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1YmS_VDvMY
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 05:37
|
|
|
Well, if there is a conspiracy, her suddenly being able to fly might have bumped her up on their kill list.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 06:05
|
|
|
Hypocrisy posted:Well, if there is a conspiracy, her suddenly being able to fly might have bumped her up on their kill list. What does her being able to fly do that makes her worth killing? I mean, we've seen other flying heroes before in the comic. I'd think the Brit teleporter would be a bigger threat but neither one is comparable to infinite free energy or the ability to speak to cancer or even just Patrick's mindreading.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 06:11
|
|
|
She's going to fly to a meeting of Brad's support group where Paladin will bust in with her robots looking for Templar, Mary will appear to stab Paladin, and get shot by Patrick, who says something cool and whitty and Alison scoops him up and flies off into the sunset. Three pages, chapter done. (Alternatively, it will continue for another 80 pages, and officially become longer than every other chapter put together)
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 06:49
|
|
Harime Nui posted:I predict the big twist is the nice robo black lady is a badgy! But then she'll need a new person who's actually done non-fighting stuff to follow.
|
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 06:52
|
|
|
Why do you guys care so much about the length of a chapter? I mean it's a webcomic, the only difference between chapters is that there's a page in between them that says "chapter" on it.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 07:14
|
|
|
ChairMaster posted:Why do you guys care so much about the length of a chapter? I mean it's a webcomic, the only difference between chapters is that there's a page in between them that says "chapter" on it. Mostly because there's a lack of narrative pacing. It's not that the chapter is long, it's that it feels endless.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 07:29
|
|
|
Not helped by the fact that this chapter has been going on for over a year. People get antsy. I think every individual scene has been fine. Everything has been relevant to the comic's themes and interesting. I guess it goes to show the importance of having a narrative arc.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 07:38
|
|
|
Say Nothing posted:Strong Female Possum. That's a webcomic: http://www.poppy-opossum.com/
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 07:56
|
|
|
Wittgen posted:I guess it goes to show the importance of having a narrative arc. Strong Female Page Editor Edit: Or, alternatively Strong Female Producer
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 09:52
|
|
|
ArchRanger posted:What does her being able to fly do that makes her worth killing? I mean, we've seen other flying heroes before in the comic. I'd think the Brit teleporter would be a bigger threat but neither one is comparable to infinite free energy or the ability to speak to cancer or even just Patrick's mindreading. Alison can kill anyone she can see. Now her reach has increased even further. I'm guessing that the default "oh poo poo Mega Girl is on a killing spree" contingency plan was to get on a plane and get the hell out of there. Maybe this wouldn't make any difference to the unseen conspiracy, but it certainly would to governments around the world.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 10:19
|
|
|
Wittgen posted:Not helped by the fact that this chapter has been going on for over a year. People get antsy. This is it, basically. It's not so much that it's a chapter, as that a chapter (or "issue", really) is a particular story arc in this comic. The story arc is, theoretically, about Moonshadow murdering rapists. Or, more specifically, the constellation of issues surrounding this, exploring her motivations and the nature of revenge and justice and all that stuff. And, honestly, the comic has done a bunch of scenes that do a good job of that! Except all of them have gone on just a bit too long, and we've had a few unrelated topics surface. The narrative has been wandering too far from the thread that's supposed to be tying this particular story together, and that's what causes us to feel restless; we want a sense of progress on the main narrative. Let's take the recent scene with Patrick as an example. It lasted approximately twenty pages, so about two and a half months. That's a pretty substantial chunk of time, even for a story that's gone on for a year. Based on the results of the scene, the narrative goals were probably something like, in no particular order: 1. State that Patrick does not care about Moonshadow murdering people and let him give his perspective on the issue of rapist-murder to represent the nihilist point of view. (This contrasts with the other points of view we've seen on the topic throughout the chapter.) 2. Establish that Patrick is not quite as in control of everything as he has seemed up until this point. 3. Create a rift between Patrick and Alison. 4. Establish that Patrick genuinely cares about Alison, and is not just trying to manipulate her. 5. Explore the issues that Patrick has with Paladin and people like her. 6. Establish that Patrick is kind of a giant manbaby. 7. Provide an explanation for Alison unlocking a new superpower. 8. Explore the nature of Patrick's telepathy and show how he uses it to advance his plans. 9. Show how Patrick's power base has grown (directly relating the "legitimate" one he presently has to the supervillain version). 10. Dive into Patrick's morality more generally and highlight his contempt for the way other people approach moral issues. Ok, so part of the problem here is... that is too many goals! That scene is trying to accomplish way more things than it ought to be. You might be able to pick three or four of those and still do a good job. Hell, some of them are super easy... item 4 is done to the extent it needs to be literally by one panel in the last page of the Trapped In Patrick's Office Arc. A better bet would be to create two or three scenes with Patrick and develop them across multiple story arcs, taking care of a few of these goals each time. This is a problem that stretches across every scene in the issue; if you look at the overall story the comic is trying to tell, each of these goals needs to be accomplished, but you're going to do better by building a lateral structure that accomplishes them across many arcs than by shoving all of them into the same arc. So, what do you do? You write up this list of ideas and then you pare it down to the ones that support the specific story the particular arc you're on is telling, and create new storylines to collect the other ones. This is armchair quarterbacking, but on this occasion I'd probably have picked goals 1, 5, and 8 and maaaybe 2, and saved the argument/manbaby/powerup for next time, with maybe a smaller scene in between to do 9 and 10 and reinforce 2. I still really like this comic, but I think there have been some definite missteps this issue. I hope the creators work them out and tighten things up next time.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 14:31
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:This is it, basically. I don't think Patrick was presenting a nihilist point of view, he seemed to be advocating for the same sort of historical anti-nihilist perspective as Nietzsche.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 15:26
|
|
|
To clarify being non-humanist and amoral is not the same thing as nihilism, and he's obviously motivated by a constructed meaning and compelled to create a new world by his own will. If anything he was accusing her of being a nihilist at heart by willingly believing in lies because she felt better that way. Agreed elsewhere though about the comics other pitfalls but it's still P. fun so no biggie.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 15:36
|
|
|
One problem is that like 8 of those Patrick narrative goals contradicted each other.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 18:51
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:One problem is that like 8 of those Patrick narrative goals contradicted each other. Yeah that's part of the problem I've had with it. The longer that scene went the less self-consistent it felt, especially when Allison came to the conclusion that he was just spewing bullshit to make her hate him to run away from his emotional issues, then suddenly switched to taking it at face value in order to make some "revelation" about his powers. Her suddenly getting a new cool power and even having a bit of a "looney tunes" moment with the brief falling also feels really tone-deaf in a chapter that's largely been about how much everyone else has been struggling, often alongside drawbacks or limitations of their powers, a lot more than she has while she's been going to school and living a relatively relaxed life compared to pretty much every other powered character.
|
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 19:40
|
|
|
The absolute worst way to develop someone's character is an extended monologue. Unfortunately, this comic is desperately in love with that narrative style. This whole arc has just been people giving bizarre speeches with the occasional murder.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 19:43
|
|
|
This chapter is murder.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
A Gnarlacious Bro posted:I don't think Patrick was presenting a nihilist point of view, he seemed to be advocating for the same sort of historical anti-nihilist perspective as Nietzsche. A Gnarlacious Bro posted:To clarify being non-humanist and amoral is not the same thing as nihilism, and he's obviously motivated by a constructed meaning and compelled to create a new world by his own will. If anything he was accusing her of being a nihilist at heart by willingly believing in lies because she felt better that way. Mmm, I was using "nihilist" according to the general definition, not in the very specific sense that Nietzsche used. Neither of them would really qualify on that score. But speaking generally, Patrick states pretty explicitly that he believes human life to be totally valueless, not just from an inherent perspective but also from his actual point of view (even using his own constructed belief system). Of course, the narrative also calls into question whether he really believes that, but that's a separate issue. The comic is setting up a bunch of points of view on Moonshadow's actions to explore different moral aspects of what she's doing. We've had a number of people weigh in on this issue; we got opinions from Alison's guidance counselor, the doctor, Mary herself, the soldier she killed, and now Patrick. What we're really missing now is Alison's point of view, which I assume we'll hear when she finally meets up with the killer (although we got a little slice of it when she spoke with Pintsize). I don't think that's a bad structure for the chapter, just needed a bit less of everything else. Discendo Vox posted:One problem is that like 8 of those Patrick narrative goals contradicted each other. I don't think they have to be inherently contradictory. Patrick having a complicated point of view on the nature of human life and being a giant manbaby aren't mutually exclusive, for instance. But it's hard to have them show up in the same scene. If we're supposed to consider Patrick's moral argument seriously, why put it in a conversation which shits on it and him? And if we're not, why devote so much time to exploring it?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2015 20:53
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:I don't think they have to be inherently contradictory. Patrick having a complicated point of view on the nature of human life and being a giant manbaby aren't mutually exclusive, for instance. But it's hard to have them show up in the same scene. If we're supposed to consider Patrick's moral argument seriously, why put it in a conversation which shits on it and him? And if we're not, why devote so much time to exploring it? I think this sums up my feelings on it. I feel like I don't know the point of this chapter, and that I can't tell what the writer is trying to tell me, what viewpoint they're trying to support. I know it's supposed to be a complicated chapter with conflicting moral viewpoints, but when you give a character a multiple-page soapbox, like Patrick's long-winded rant or the doctor's rattling off statistics like a machine, I start to assume you agree with them and you're using the story as a vehicle to get me to agree with them too. That's what stories often do, intentionally or otherwise - they try to convince you of something, or make you think critically about something. One way or another, they have a point. When you abruptly turn around and contradict everything he spent pages and pages rambling about and render it effectively pointless, I feel like I'm getting narrative whiplash. Like, who am I supposed to be agreeing with or sympathizing with? Is it Allison or Patrick? Because I don't really agree with Patrick, but I'm having trouble seeing Allison as a sympathetic character and enjoying her touching family Skype call when she, with her literal super-strength, violently pitched a gift at someone obviously not in a good mental state and then blamed them for not getting out of the way, as if that somehow justified it. (Yes, I know he just spent a ton of time verbally provoking her. That doesn't make it any better, especially when what he said that prompted the violence was NOT meant to provoke her, more of an olive branch.) I have no idea what the writer is trying to convey or who they want me to be emotionally invested in, and it is making me care progressively less and less about what happens to the characters. It feels really incoherent. Irukandji Syndrome fucked around with this message at 08:50 on May 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 08:48
|
|
|
It's a chapter ostensibly about vigilantism and crimes against criminals but what it's really about is monologues.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 08:56
|
|
|
T.G. Xarbala posted:It's a chapter ostensibly about vigilantism and crimes against criminals but what it's really about is monologues. Strong Female Protagonist: what it's really about is monologues.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 15:10
|
|
|
I feel like the comic should just drop the idea of chapters and just be ongoing so y'all can stop obsessing about what a chapter is about and how long it's going for.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:I feel like the comic should just drop the idea of chapters and just be ongoing so y'all can stop obsessing about what a chapter is about and how long it's going for.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2015 19:50
|
|
Poison Mushroom posted:I feel like that would probably just compound the "recent events have been aimless" problem, whether you call it an arc or a chapter, it's still a thematic mess. At least this way, it's a self contained thematic mess. Yeah, these past few scenes, especially the office scene, have been kind of a mess and way too monologue-filled, chapter breaks or no.
|
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 02:52
|
|
|
Well, I'm fully through the loop. Seeing Allison's family being so supportive is now making her less sympathetic. I get that we're supposed to like the public, politically progressive genius scientist (who builds deadly autonomous AI and seems unable to run an effective company) and hate the secretive, politically pragmatist businessman (who has been retroactively made an incomprehensible amoral idiot), but I am (obviously) now pretty taken out of the whole plot by having several characters give "this is how you should feel about me" speeches.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 13:44
|
|
|
OH GOD We're getting a Furnace monologue next  
Jackard fucked around with this message at 14:05 on May 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 14:02
|
|
|
i fear furnace is going to kill somebody
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 14:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 16:24 |
|
|
Tollymain posted:i fear furnace is going to kill somebody He's either on his way to kill someone who has made a rape accusation or Moonshadow is going to slit his idiot throat.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 14:25
|
|
