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jivjov posted:You can't map a touchsceen control to a Pro Controller. You don't inherently need a touchscreen for a "spawn on teammates" mechanic, or for a map. A workaround would be easily achievable if they so desired, but they evidently didn't.
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May 27, 2015 18:24
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| # ? May 31, 2024 16:24 |
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Bland posted:You don't inherently need a touchscreen for a "spawn on teammates" mechanic, or for a map. A workaround would be easily achievable if they so desired, but they evidently didn't. Because the entire game is balanced around having one-glance access to the map and one-touch access to the superjump. If you want to play the game with a map overlaid on your field of view and clunky d-pad controls for jumping to allies, fine...but I'll stick with simpler and better game design.
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May 27, 2015 18:27
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I still really havent decided if Im gonna buy a physical disk or just preload it. I might just preload it at this point.
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May 27, 2015 18:29
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Bland posted:You don't inherently need a touchscreen for a "spawn on teammates" mechanic, or for a map. A workaround would be easily achievable if they so desired, but they evidently didn't. Dude jivjov is just a dick who is trolling all of us, ignore him. We already posted literally that same explanation like 2 pages back; he's intentionally going in circles. He doesn't really care.
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May 27, 2015 18:30
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 No he isnt
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May 27, 2015 18:31
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Holy moley someone's got their beard in a bristle today
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May 27, 2015 18:32
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jivjov posted:Because the entire game is balanced around having one-glance access to the map and one-touch access to the superjump. If you want to play the game with a map overlaid on your field of view and clunky d-pad controls for jumping to allies, fine...but I'll stick with simpler and better game design. Have you ever played other shooters? How does their map/respawn make you feel? I mean I don't think anyone's ever played a modern shooter and said a minimal/full map toggle with map display on death and spawn selection was... Clunky.
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May 27, 2015 18:39
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What we really should be complaining about is the lack of offscreen play. I've gotten so used to switching back and forth with other games.
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May 27, 2015 18:43
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A Yolo Wizard posted:Anyone have that leaked target pic of how much of the amiibos and poo poo they are going to have on friday This might help. http://nintendoinquirer.com/2015/05/the-black-amiibo-friday-survival-guide/
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May 27, 2015 18:43
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Disargeria posted:Have you ever played other shooters? How does their map/respawn make you feel? Yeah but then using that map as a hub to teleport to is probably a lot slower than using the touch screen. Same goes for the ink strikes. In the grand scheme of things though I can't imagine it's like that big of a deal and wouldnt be that hard to map.
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May 27, 2015 18:43
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SeANMcBAY posted:What we really should be complaining about is the lack of offscreen play. I've gotten so used to switching back and forth with other games. Yeah this is a super bummer. Its probably part of the same decision making that decided we could only use the tablet. Since the spawn screen uses the tablet, if you play offscreen then they have to do something with the spawn screen.  All the more reason to add a pop-up spawn UI. Then you could have both offscreen and allow people to play with other controllers. Bread Set Jettison posted:Yeah but then using that map as a hub to teleport to is probably a lot slower than using the touch screen. Same goes for the ink strikes. Exactly. It would be a very very minor change. Maybe you'd be slightly faster but w/e, it'd be very slight. Spawning at map points in Battlefield doesn't exactly take hours to select. And mapping it would just be a matter of having the screen pop up when you do something (at spawn or maybe if you press select or something) which does take some doing, but its extremely trivial in the grand scheme of game design. And it'd mean both pro controllers and offscreen play. Seems worth doing to me, and a bummer we don't have it. But it is what it is. Two player online using offscreen or split screen would be even cooler, but that at least makes sense as more of a technical restriction. They'd have to remodel the game assets or otherwise render things at lovely resolution or something to try to make it run. Still, its sad to think I have to take turns playing with my friends, or otherwise just play 1-on-1. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:48 on May 27, 2015 |
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May 27, 2015 18:45
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Hope the lorry driver is OK
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May 27, 2015 18:50
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Disargeria posted:Have you ever played other shooters? How does their map/respawn make you feel? I've played other shooters, but not one with a goal of literal territory control like Splatoon's.
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May 27, 2015 18:53
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I think there's a good chance they didn't want the map on the screen. It's an interesting design decision to force you to look away from the screen, take a moment to figure out your bearings, then try to figure out what's going on. It makes stealthy play a lot more viable since spreading ink is a huge "I'M HERE SHOOT ME" flag if you're looking at the map, but there's a pretty large opportunity cost to looking at the map.
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May 27, 2015 18:53
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I dunno, I never found myself looking down at the gamepad other than to spawn. I just look around to get a sense of the turf war just as fast as looking down at the screen. You can check the overall paint progress when you spawn but otherwise I keep my eyes on the action; lest some roller come up behind me.
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May 27, 2015 18:55
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Im all for minimizing onscreen clutter
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May 27, 2015 18:57
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Zaphod42 posted:I dunno, I never found myself looking down at the gamepad other than to spawn. I just look around to get a sense of the turf war just as fast as looking down at the screen. You can check the overall paint progress when you spawn but otherwise I keep my eyes on the action; lest some roller come up behind me. Exactly. You have a poorer sense of what's going on if you don't look at the map, but there's a real cost to looking at it. If you could flicker the map on the screen it'd be way easier to tell what's going on. It's an interesting, intentional decision.
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May 27, 2015 18:58
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Is anyone who got the game early streaming?
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May 27, 2015 19:12
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Lemming posted:Exactly. You have a poorer sense of what's going on if you don't look at the map, but there's a real cost to looking at it. If you could flicker the map on the screen it'd be way easier to tell what's going on. It's an interesting, intentional decision. You could do the same thing by having the screen have a delay so you can't just flicker it, and having it take up the whole screen so you can only see one or the other. No it isn't. Its just typical Nintendo "one size fits all" design, plus trying to justify the gamepad's existence.
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May 27, 2015 19:20
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Zaphod42 posted:You could do the same thing by having the screen have a delay so you can't just flicker it, and having it take up the whole screen so you can only see one or the other. No, seriously. How is that preferable over the gamepad?
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May 27, 2015 19:25
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Conro101 posted:Who on earth would prefer a map, on a delay, take up my entire game window when I can just look down? You're joining a conversation in-progress which is about being able to use offscreen play or being able to use a pro controller. The context kinda loving matters, because you wouldn't have a screen to look down too. You're kinda missing the whole point here dude.  Like yeah if you want to play on a gamepad or if you can use the tv and the gamepad at the same time, then sure, duh, loving use the gamepad screen for that. But if people want to play offscreen, it'd be cool if they could (with the oh so loving minor problem of having to pause to look at the map nobody uses) rather than saying "get hosed, you'll play on a TV or you won't play at all". Some people like offscreen, if they have to share their TV or whatever.
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May 27, 2015 19:28
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Disargeria posted:Have you ever played other shooters? How does their map/respawn make you feel? Have you ever played Battlefield? It's loving terrible. Besides waiting for the screen to load, you have to go into two menus to select a squad. This is all the while the game is going on. But you can afford that time in a 20-30 match. Splatoon is 3 minutes, where every second counts, so working on an alt control scheme that will pretty much force you not to use the main point of the game, map control, is probably not on their priority list. Can we please stop comparing Splatoon to other shooters, when it is absolutely nothing like the others since the main point of the game is to shoot the map and not chasing a blip on the map.
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May 27, 2015 19:29
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bushisms.txt posted:Have you ever played Battlefield? It's loving terrible. Besides waiting for the screen to load, you have to go into two menus to select a squad. This is all the while the game is going on. But you can afford that time in a 20-30 match. Splatoon is 3 minutes, where every second counts, so working on an alt control scheme that will pretty much force you not to use the main point of the game, map control, is probably not on their priority list. Splatoon doesn't have squads and why would you assume that because battlefield's screen is a laggy (because it has to show the positions of 30 dudes in real time and because Battlefield is buggy) that splatoons would have to be?  That doesn't make sense dude.You're arguing that because  no other game company can make spawn screens that aren't laggy, and that's just dumb.
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May 27, 2015 19:31
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Zaphod42 posted:You're joining a conversation in-progress which is about being able to use offscreen play or being able to use a pro controller. The context kinda loving matters, because you wouldn't have a screen to look down too. You're kinda missing the whole point here dude. He's not missing the point. The point is that they could do all the dumb garbage you're suggesting, so a small number of people could use the pro controller, or you could use the game pad, which everyone has and the game was designed for from the ground up.
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May 27, 2015 19:31
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Lemming posted:He's not missing the point. The point is that they could do all the dumb garbage you're suggesting, so a small number of people could use the pro controller, or you could use the game pad, which everyone has and the game was designed for from the ground up. What about people who like offscreen play? Its a huge feature of the WiiU and they're just saying "you can't play that way because we said so and we couldn't be arsed to make a spawn screen".
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May 27, 2015 19:33
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Zaphod42 posted:You're joining a conversation in-progress which is about being able to use offscreen play or being able to use a pro controller. The context kinda loving matters, because you wouldn't have a screen to look down too. You're kinda missing the whole point here dude. I will miss offscreen play, but it's better than Captain Toad which just straight up shows the same thing on both screens, which was really annoying.
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May 27, 2015 19:33
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OP neither has to be squid or kid.
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May 27, 2015 19:34
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Conro101 posted:but this is the first Wii U game where the Gamepad is used very well What?This game barely uses the gamepad at all, while others use it to great extent. Do you own a WiiU? Have you played like, Pikmin or Mario Party or Nintendoland like at all? Seriously laughing at the idea that a spawn screen is the greatest use of gamepad yet. That's ridiculous. Even Monster Hunter does more with the touch pad than Splatoon does!
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May 27, 2015 19:34
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Zaphod42 posted:What about people who like offscreen play? Its a huge feature of the WiiU and they're just saying "you can't play that way because we said so and we couldn't be arsed to make a spawn screen". Off screen play works for games where the game pad's screen is not particularly useful or important to the game play. In this game it is, so there's no off screen play. It's pretty easy to see.
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May 27, 2015 19:35
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Lemming posted:Off screen play works for games where the game pad's screen is not particularly useful or important to the game play. In this game it is, so there's no off screen play. It's pretty easy to see. Literally the only time I ever look at the gamepad is to spawn, and even then only sometimes, other times I just walk out of spawn. It is not that integral at all. Monster Hunter has maps and buttons on the gamepad and still allows for off-screen play, in which case the map gets superimposed in the game and the sky does not in fact fall.
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May 27, 2015 19:36
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Zaphod42 posted:Literally the only time I ever look at the gamepad is to spawn, and even then only sometimes, other times I just walk out of spawn. It is not that integral at all. "I am bad at Splatoon" is not a good argument. You can super jump to people while you're running around, not just in spawn. You should be looking at your screen a lot to tell you where your enemies are and where you need to shore up your defenses, or a good place to sneak in and attack, or to super jump to your friends.
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May 27, 2015 19:39
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Zaphod42 posted:
I mean, sure, you can look around in-game to see if stuff needs ink, but have fun wondering why the other half of the rig is covered with enemy ink at the end of the round.
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May 27, 2015 19:39
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Zaphod42 posted:Splatoon doesn't have squads and why would you assume that because battlefield's screen is a laggy (because it has to show the positions of 30 dudes in real time and because Battlefield is buggy) that splatoons would have to be? No, I'm talking about your call for convenience over function, when the game is designed with the full map in your hand. The person I quoted says selecting teams isn't clunky on modern games, and I was citing an example of the one comparable games. My point being, even if the map wasn't laggy, you are adding barriers between the function and player. In the heat of the battle, I'd be more willing to take a risk and look down and tas, than to have to pull up a screen that covers my view of the goings on, flick over to the person I want to select, and then press the button. What if someone starts attacking me? With the map, it's a quick look and touch. These are the options the devs have to think about, especially in a team game aimed at children with no voice chat. All this does is unbalance teams unwilling to use their options.
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May 27, 2015 19:40
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Zaphod42 posted:Literally the only time I ever look at the gamepad is to spawn, and even then only sometimes, other times I just walk out of spawn. It is not that integral at all. Then you're neglecting part of the game. That's on you, not the game.
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May 27, 2015 19:40
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I see no reason why homes should have stoves in them. I eat cold beans straight out of the can, so it's pretty clear stoves are worthless.
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May 27, 2015 19:41
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bushisms.txt posted:No, I'm talking about your call for convenience over function, when the game is designed with the full map in your hand. The person I quoted says selecting teams isn't clunky on modern games, and I was citing an example of the one comparable games. My point being, even if the map wasn't laggy, you are adding barriers between the function and player. These are all good reasons why playing with the current control scheme should be an option. These are not good enough reasons as to why it should be mandatory. That's the thing. If I want to say "I really don't care about the map screen if it means I can play offscreen right now because my TV is busy and otherwise I can't play" that's kinda silly. That's the point. Nobody is arguing that the current scheme is bad. Its great. I'm just saying, making some compromise so you can use pro controllers or offscreen as well would probably be okay too  yeah?I'm not trying to take away your touchpad.
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May 27, 2015 19:42
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Using the gyro controls really makes this game feel like a viable shooter and not another twinstick console nightmare, and that alone makes the gamepad worthwhile. Decoupling the map from the screen makes stealth possible and being able to tap on the map to jump out of spawn and call precise airstrikes is cool and a novel use of existing hardware. I'm glad Nintendo is willing to put out a primarily online competitive shooter in 2015 without sacrificing the important details to accomodate local multiplayer or offscreen toilet play. edit: Can you remap controls in the retail game? I want to put jump and center camera on the left and right analog stick clicks and never touch the face buttons again.
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May 27, 2015 19:44
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Zaphod42 posted:These are all good reasons why playing with the current control scheme should be an option. These are not goo enough reasons as to why it should be mandatory. That's my thing. But why can't the developer say, "No I won't allow you to play my game wrong, so that later you don't comp[lain about other balance issues already addressed through these design decisions?" You're forgetting about the other 3 players on your team who now have one less person working towards the goal. In this game, the disadvantage is really felt, especially with 4v4.
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May 27, 2015 19:45
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Live stream of the Jp ver http://www.twitch.tv/gamexplain
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May 27, 2015 19:45
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I love all these serious replies to zaphod. Keep them coming.
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May 27, 2015 19:48
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