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CJ posted:Thanks for the unmarked spoilers. Sorry!  ImpAtom posted:Yes they are.
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May 28, 2015 18:16
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I made sure the baron lived and would do it again.
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May 28, 2015 18:22
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Avalerion posted:Yes it does, it's the third picture just under the armor screens.  Failboattootoot posted:I have never played a game where crit boosts and other goony modifiers like it were a better return than raw damage. edit: I cant look at this: Verranicus posted:I can't decide if I want to help Dijkstra or Roche when it comes to ruling Novigrad. On the one hand I had cool adventures with Roche in 2, but he's not as cool in 3.. and on the other Dijkstra is likely to be the best thing for the city and has been a pretty cool dude all around. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 18:31 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 18:27
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ImpAtom posted:Yes they are. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of prominent npcs that are not mass murderers and/or war criminals. The other issue is key, and the underlying question is whether or not you believe they've suffered enough already.
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May 28, 2015 18:30
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Ending spoilers since a few more people seem to have finished up now anyone else kinda feel the 'bad ending' where Ciri stops the Frost but disappears/dies and Geralt kills the last Crone and commits Witcher seppuku, is the 'canon' ending? I've seen all 3, and the atmosphere and build-up in the bad ending just feels right given the characters and the setting. We reunited with Ciri, beat the Hunt, defeated the Frost, everyone got their revenge, Ciri did her duty and Geralt did his, and now he ends his story on his terms given he has no reason to carry on living. I was super down after I got that ending, but after seeing the others it's actually my favourite. e; The Ciri becomes a Witcher ending seems more like a dream Geralt would have as he dies, like a fairytale ending, and the Ciri becomes Empress just seems out of character considering her development up until then Creepy Goat fucked around with this message at 18:34 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 18:31
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Creepy Goat posted:Ending spoilers since a few more people seem to have finished up now anyone else kinda feel the 'bad ending' where Ciri stops the Frost but disappears/dies and Geralt kills the last Crone and commits Witcher seppuku, is the 'canon' ending? I've seen all 3, and the atmosphere and build-up in the bad ending just feels right given the characters and the setting. We reunited with Ciri, beat the Hunt, defeated the Frost, everyone got their revenge, Ciri did her duty and Geralt did his, and now he ends his story on his terms given he has no reason to carry on living. Maybe it's the one where Ciri is the empress and Geralt retires with Yen
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May 28, 2015 18:34
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Why would there be a canon ending? Your choices mattering is kind of a thing of these games.
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May 28, 2015 18:34
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drat, I've been doing sidequests a lot today and didn't even notice they're not giving me any exp. Mostly just stuff a few levels below mine. Can this sort of thing be fixed retroactively or should I just stop doing sidequests until they fix it?
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May 28, 2015 18:39
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Avalerion posted:Why would there be a canon ending? Your choices mattering is kind of a thing of these games. Hence the  , not a 'real' canon ending but just more what the devs lean towards. To be honest none of my choices in W2 (like everyone) had any real bearing on the story in W3 so 
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May 28, 2015 18:39
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Lord Lambeth posted:Sorry! What makes the ending where the baron survives more unambiguously good is that it's not about the Baron. It's about his wife. The Baron is an abusive murderer and it's entirely justifiable to never forgive him for that; but the outcome of that ending, as I saw it, was the Baron abandoning his life and all the trappings of power up to that point to take the one person he still loves and go on a very likely futile quest to do something, anything, to help her. He keeps his life and that's what he intends to do with it, so as far as decisions go that's probably the best one he had left to make. You can't end up in a situation where the baron dies without Anna dying as well. Maybe that's justice for the Baron, but it sure as hell isn't for Anna, who as far as we've seen had a pretty terrible life up to that point which abruptly and unfairly ends when the Crones kill her to stick it to Geralt, and it's really Geralt's actions in freeing the spirit that lead to that. Of course here I am talking about an "unambiguously good" ending which earlier involved a bunch of children getting eaten by witches. I guess this is one of those choices which has horrific consequences for some group of people no matter what, which is probably why there's a lot of chatter about it! It's an interesting topic.
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May 28, 2015 18:41
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Avalerion posted:Why would there be a canon ending? Your choices mattering is kind of a thing of these games. The core writing is far better but CDP aren't that different from Bioware when it comes to telling their own story. A lot of stuff is happily ignored to keep a reasonably consistent narrative.
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May 28, 2015 18:42
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The Baron isn't a good person. That's the point. There's no particular reason to help him except he's holding out on you with information you need, which is a dickheaded thing to do. The point is that you start helping him, and it starts to become clear that, despite being a really lovely person, he realizes that he has been wrong and wants to make things right, but he doesn't know how because he's a shitbag of a man who can't control his temper or his vices and Geralt has to accuse, berate, and badger him into admitting all the poo poo that he's done wrong and force him to fix it because it's the only way he will see his family again. And then if you actually help him he manages to find his wife and daughter alive, but his daughter (rightly) wants nothing to do with him and his wife is insane from all he's put her through and what he drove her to do with the Crones. But at least they're not loving dead, and he vows to do something, anything, no matter how futile, and this earns the tiniest sliver of respect from his daughter even though it doesn't change her mind. It's like Geralt says in the movie at the end of that questline, he saved the Baron from himself, even though the Baron didn't especially deserve it. Weighing everything in that questline on the calculus of who "deserves" it more is pointless, because the answer is obvious (the orphans are innocent, Anna is innocent). Plus helping redeem the Baron sticks it at least a little bit to the Crones in a way that doesn't potentially release something worse on the world, and they're evil in a way the Baron can't even remotely hope to be. All the rest of the stuff that happens is basically just a "no perfectly happy outcomes" thing.
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May 28, 2015 18:42
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Avalerion posted:Why would there be a canon ending? Your choices mattering is kind of a thing of these games. Didn't this game end up heavily borrowing from the Roche route in 2 instead of the Iorveth route? Wouldn't that make the Roche route more likely the canon one? EDIT, unrelated: I'm surprised I haven't seen more videos/articles of outraged feminists/SJWs about how sexist and oppressive the game is.
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May 28, 2015 18:43
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Verranicus posted:Didn't this game end up heavily borrowing from the Roche route in 2 instead of the Iorveth route? Wouldn't that make the Roche route more likely the canon one? These people actually don't play games and have to rely on others doing so on YouTube.
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May 28, 2015 18:48
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Verranicus posted:EDIT, unrelated: I'm surprised I haven't seen more videos/articles of outraged feminists/SJWs about how sexist and oppressive the game is. There's one in the game, when you first enter Novigrad a female elf getting hassled by some peasants. When you shoo them off she's like "oh who do you think you are, a knight in shining armour coming to the aid of poor elf girl? What am I meant to do, part my legs for you?" and Geralt's all "could just say thanks..."
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May 28, 2015 18:48
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Cephalocidal posted:I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of prominent npcs that are not mass murderers and/or war criminals. The other issue is key, and the underlying question is whether or not you believe they've suffered enough already. It isn't really in this case. The Baron's 'suffering' or lack thereover is entirely unimportant. It is entirely about Anna and her choices regardless of what the Baron says. What he wants matters absolutely not at all. There's no room for "well, the world is a grey place" arguments with this particular argument. It isn't even a case of "well, you know, in wartime..." like a lot of the grey choices in the game.
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May 28, 2015 18:49
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ImpAtom posted:It isn't really in this case. The Baron's 'suffering' or lack thereover is entirely unimportant. It is entirely about Anna and her choices regardless of what the Baron says. What he wants matters absolutely not at all. There's no room for "well, the world is a grey place" arguments with this particular argument. It isn't even a case of "well, you know, in wartime..." like a lot of the grey choices in the game.
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May 28, 2015 18:53
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The worst thing about the Bloody baron questline is how apparently the lovely sergeant takes over afterwards no matter what you do and sends his men to rape. murder and pillage the countryside. There's no winners here.
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May 28, 2015 18:54
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That entire family ends up in lovely situations because of the baron. Anna sells herself to the Crones in order to kill her and the Barons unborn child(which the Crones lie about of course, they promise it should be painless when it's everything but), and helps them gather and eat children. Tamara joins the witch hunters, and the Baron rules over a band of soldiers that are really no better than bandits and renegades. None of them are exactly sympathetic on anything other than a personal level if you look at the big picture, even if Anna's and Tamara's motivations directly stem from the Barons treatment of them.
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May 28, 2015 19:00
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Avalerion posted:Why would there be a canon ending? Your choices mattering is kind of a thing of these games. The endings are different enough that only thing is really certain regarding the story: Geralt's playable adventuring timeline is over. Any other adventures in this world will need to be either someone or somewhen else. ...Although getting to play around as plane-hopping Wild Hunt vassal Geralt would be neat.
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May 28, 2015 19:01
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Nakar posted:His suffering is important, but not because it justifies anything he says or does. His suffering to fix things is important, because Geralt is showing him that he hosed up and his wife is in the spot she's in because of him and if he wants to fix things it's going to be hard and he's going to have to actually try. And again, it's not about who "deserves" the opportunity to redeem themselves. Nobody "deserves" that, but he gets the chance because he lucked into Geralt. Other people live and die as shitheads or get slaughtered for no reason. poo poo sucks and sometimes the unworthy get another chance and maybe it works out in some fashion (or not, depending on Geralt's own decisions and what he thinks is more important). Except that continues to ignore Anna's choices. Anna chose to leave him and she gets absolutely no say (due to her condition) over being sent back to him. That ending is the worst ending because it is taking a woman driven insane by her abusive husband's actions and giving her back to him because he promises not to beat her this time, even though she made it clear beforehand that she wants nothing to do with him and loathes him to the point she was more willing to take her daughter, make a deal with monsters and escape into the dangerous wilderness than remain with him. There's no defending that choice. It isn't the most unarguably Wrong choice in the game but it isn't a grey choice at all. It's forcing an incapacitated woman to go back to her abusive husband, who is only not an ex-husband because of the lovely world they live in. It's a perfectly valid choice to make but it isn't a shades of grey one. It's terrible. (And that isn't discounting the horrifying things Anna did either but still.) I'm not arguing it's bad writing but it isn't morally ambiguous at all. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 19:04
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Nakar posted:His suffering is important, but not because it justifies anything he says or does. His suffering to fix things is important, because Geralt is showing him that he hosed up and his wife is in the spot she's in because of him and if he wants to fix things it's going to be hard and he's going to have to actually try. And again, it's not about who "deserves" the opportunity to redeem themselves. Nobody "deserves" that, but he gets the chance because he lucked into Geralt. Other people live and die as shitheads or get slaughtered for no reason. poo poo sucks and sometimes the unworthy get another chance and maybe it works out in some fashion (or not, depending on Geralt's own decisions and what he thinks is more important, maybe four children are more important than a batshit wife and her shithead husband). Continuing the CIA Family Matters discussion: What exactly happens to the children when the spirit frees them? A friend said they were just gone from the game, but maybe he just didn't find them or didn't pay attention. I mean, if we are lacking information the tree spirit might just have eaten them herself or turned them into wolves or sent them to an orphanage or... Is there an actual answer?
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May 28, 2015 19:06
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ZearothK posted:Continuing the CIA Family Matters discussion: What exactly happens to the children when the spirit frees them? A friend said they were just gone from the game, but maybe he just didn't find them or didn't pay attention. I mean, if we are lacking information the tree spirit might just have eaten them herself or turned them into wolves or sent them to an orphanage or... Is there an actual answer? All we know is that they got away from the Crones, because they punish Anna for it. I really wish there was something more about the tree spirit, I'd like to know what became of it.
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May 28, 2015 19:09
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Well, maybe that's general knowledge, but I just checked the install folder (steam version) and there's the soundtrack and an artbook along with some wallpapers. Neat!
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May 28, 2015 19:09
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ImpAtom posted:Except that continues to ignore Anna's choices. Anna chose to leave him and she gets absolutely no say (due to her condition) over being sent back to him. That ending is the worst ending because it is taking a woman driven insane by her abusive husband's actions and giving her back to him because he promises not to beat her this time, even though she made it clear beforehand that she wants nothing to do with him and loathes him to the point she was more willing to take her daughter, make a deal with monsters and escape into the dangerous wilderness than remain with him. I think you're wrong and if you asked anna which ending she preferred, she'd disagree with you.
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May 28, 2015 19:12
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maybe the botchling will help? 
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May 28, 2015 19:14
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Kurtofan posted:maybe the botchling will help? Speaking of that, did anyone actually choose to kill it?
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May 28, 2015 19:14
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Creepy Goat posted:Ending spoilers since a few more people seem to have finished up now anyone else kinda feel the 'bad ending' where Ciri stops the Frost but disappears/dies and Geralt kills the last Crone and commits Witcher seppuku, is the 'canon' ending? I've seen all 3, and the atmosphere and build-up in the bad ending just feels right given the characters and the setting. We reunited with Ciri, beat the Hunt, defeated the Frost, everyone got their revenge, Ciri did her duty and Geralt did his, and now he ends his story on his terms given he has no reason to carry on living. Ending stuff: I'm still annoyed about the decision points that influence it, but I also really love this ending. Besides the goofy-rear end werewolf, the ending is so bleak and perfectly captures Geralt's loss in the face of what happened. I also agree with your thoughts about the other endings as well, I think this one makes the most sense given the direction the story was heading. To be honest though, I do feel like the whole sequence after you kill Eredin was a blur and a bit underdeveloped. I was fully expecting to take down Avalach because he's been suspicious as hell the whole game, so I was surprised when he laid down his sword in the final scene and was like: "Welp, we anticipated the White Frost happening, she needs to go and stop this." One of the good ending choices involved destroying his lab, which to me was hinting at the fact that Avalach was going to do some major poo poo before the game ended. Why exactly is Ciri keen on working with him now?? What happened was unexpected and inconsistent with the hints the game had been dropping about him to this point CerebralDonut fucked around with this message at 19:19 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 19:16
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CerebralDonut posted:Ending stuff: I'm still annoyed about the decision points that influence it, but I also really love this ending. Besides the goofy-rear end werewolf, the ending is so bleak and perfectly captures Geralt's loss in the face of what happened. I also agree with your thoughts about the other endings as well, I think this one makes the most sense given the direction the story was heading. To be honest though, I do feel like the whole sequence after you kill Eredin was a blur and a bit underdeveloped. I was fully expecting to take down Avalach because he's been suspicious as hell the whole game, so I was surprised when he laid down his sword in the final scene and was like: "Welp, we anticipated the White Frost happening, she needs to go and stop this." One of the good ending choices involved destroying his lab, which to me was hinting at the fact that Avalach was going to do some major poo poo before the game ended. What happened was unexpected and inconsistent with the hints the game had been dropping about him to this point The reason the "good" choice is to destroy his lab is because Ciri thinks he's using her(which he is). It's an act of rebellion. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 19:21 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 19:18
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ChocNitty posted:I'm still early in the game, and I watched this video on youtube that talks about why you should play the game on easy, because the combat system is flawed, and on easy you can experience more of the better aspects of the game: The dude is mad because he can't launch into a counter attack for free after completing the herculean task of ~landing a parry~, something the game, through Vesemir, directly warns you about not more than 10 minutes into the story. edit: 15 minutes of fighting bandits without a single Axii this guy is lost. Woozy fucked around with this message at 19:23 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 19:20
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Verranicus posted:Didn't this game end up heavily borrowing from the Roche route in 2 instead of the Iorveth route? Wouldn't that make the Roche route more likely the canon one? The polygon review did complain about how sexist the character design is. Does this game pass the bechdel test, speaking of?
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May 28, 2015 19:22
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ImpAtom posted:Except that continues to ignore Anna's choices. Anna chose to leave him and she gets absolutely no say (due to her condition) over being sent back to him. That ending is the worst ending because it is taking a woman driven insane by her abusive husband's actions and giving her back to him because he promises not to beat her this time, even though she made it clear beforehand that she wants nothing to do with him and loathes him to the point she was more willing to take her daughter and escape into the dangerous wilderness than remain with him. The ending is completely defensible and not the least bit wrong, at least inasmuch as any choice in that entire sequence is (where lovely things happen regardless). You're falsely hung up on the idea that the Baron is somehow being rewarded in that ending, when he isn't, and ignoring all the poo poo Geralt put him through to make him realize that he's a shithead, and the way Geralt deliberately forced the Baron to be the one to take the steps that were needed, forcing him to become a person who will do what he has to do to change himself and repair the damage he's done, even if it means living with his own suffering. Killing himself is the easy way out, just like drinking and blaming Anna was the easy way out; now he has to live with what he has caused every day until they die or he finds a way to help her. Nobody's saying he isn't completely at fault for everything that happened, or that he actually deserves to be able to redeem himself, or that there should be any particular outcome if he does so. But the fact that he can has merit narratively and morally and what happens with him and Anna isn't about "the Baron got his family back and was rewarded despite driving them both away from him in the first place" but "the Baron's family is still broken and it's his fault but he has become someone who will at least try to fix what he broke, without any promise that he will ever succeed or that his wife and daughter will want him back even if he does." Tamara continues to hold a very low opinion of him, and there's no reason to believe Anna will suddenly love him again if her mind returns to her. The entire arc is effective because the central character going through the changes is the one responsible for all the harm that has happened and who isn't necessarily deserving of any chance to redeem himself, but gets it anyway solely because Geralt needed something from him. That's part of why the ending remains ambiguous, and why it feels kind of weird that the person who ended up changing for the better maybe didn't deserve it. That doesn't mean choosing that path is wrong though.
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May 28, 2015 19:26
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Broken Cog posted:Speaking of that, did anyone actually choose to kill it? I didn't only because I wanted to know what the gently caress a lubberkin was
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May 28, 2015 19:32
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Verranicus posted:EDIT, unrelated: I'm surprised I haven't seen more videos/articles of outraged feminists/SJWs about how sexist and oppressive the game is. I've mentioned it before but the Witcher series is in a weird blindspot with a ton of people. A lot of its elements get glossed over despite being the reason for a shitstorm elsewhere. I'm trying to imagine how many people would try to defend, say, Dragon Age with the "realism" card if it put as much rape and sexism in as the Witcher does.
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May 28, 2015 19:32
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ImpAtom posted:Yes they are. Nothing in life is black and white, and everything goes both ways. Especially in this particular case. But I realize this is an emotional topic for some so thats all I'll say, aside to reiterate how much I love that the Witcher actually portrayed it in such a nuanced manner. Much deeper than any game I've ever seen, and especially surprising in the age of social justice. Maybe it's the polish origins? In gameplay news, is the shield spell worth leveling? It seems like it could be good, I saw someone mention that it knocks people down upon breaking, like the telekinesis spell?
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May 28, 2015 19:36
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Some of my friends at work are having a real problem playing Witcher 3 due to motion sicknes from the witcher sense effect. Do any of you know of either an option or a mod that can disable/alter the visualization of that skill?
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May 28, 2015 19:38
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Ending question spoiler So if you do one of the endings where Ciri lives, is it implied that the White Frost will still destroy the world one day?
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May 28, 2015 19:38
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ZearothK posted:Continuing the CIA Family Matters discussion: What exactly happens to the children when the spirit frees them? A friend said they were just gone from the game, but maybe he just didn't find them or didn't pay attention. I mean, if we are lacking information the tree spirit might just have eaten them herself or turned them into wolves or sent them to an orphanage or... Is there an actual answer? Everyone who wants to know where the children go: If you save the tree spirit: In the quest to find Dandelion, you will find a lady who is a teaching a class. On her desk is a letter stating the names of "recent arrivals", children who came from no where. It lists all the names of the children rescued from the Crones  This makes saving the tree spirit the best choice. 
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May 28, 2015 19:41
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I mostly went with the baron because he's the only person that could possibly make Velen less of a hellscape and hopefully making him a slightly better person will result in that. Everything is bad here, usually slightly less bad is the best outcome you can hope for.
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May 28, 2015 19:42
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Darth Windu posted:In gameplay news, is the shield spell worth leveling? It seems like it could be good, I saw someone mention that it knocks people down upon breaking, like the telekinesis spell? The first level upgrade is ok and mostly worth it just because you're probably using Quen a lot anyway, but I personally only get it to unlock the second tier and immediately take the sustained shield skill which is awesome. It basically lets you fill your health up and saves you from having to constantly use potions/meditate. Playing on the hardest difficulty, and it's nice to just have that there whenever I want to top off before starting a huge fight or quest. Also the things that makes the Baron sympathetic aren't his own justifications for things. It's why the game still lets you call him an rear end in a top hat and tell him that it's all his fault even after he gives you the big "You don't understand!" speech. That's what makes the Witcher 3 so much more complex and interesting than something like a Bioware game where they would've tried to spin it so that the Baron's actions actually weren't his fault. It's the difference between 'Look this guy totally isn't an rear end in a top hat!' which comes off as superficial, cliche, and shallow, and 'Look this guy is absolutely an rear end in a top hat but...' which gives them room to build a believably sad character that you can at least temporarily feel bad for, despite the fact that he might be a monstrous piece of poo poo.
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