|
The Born Approx. posted:Commercial bribery sounds a lot like regular ol' capitalism to me. Bribing employees to get a better deal in the bidding phase of contracts is massively inefficient behavior and the countries who are good at capitalism really crack down on it hard. If FIFA was a for profit corporation these bribes would be straight up theft from the shareholders.
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 04:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 20:17 |
|
|
Bip Roberts posted:Bribing employees to get a better deal in the bidding phase of contracts is massively inefficient behavior and the countries who are good at capitalism really crack down on it hard. If FIFA was a for profit corporation these bribes would be straight up theft from the shareholders. I thought FIFA (and FIFA members/employees?) were receiving bribes, not giving them.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 04:31
|
|
|
Badger of Basra posted:I thought FIFA (and FIFA members/employees?) were receiving bribes, not giving them. Right, they received bribes and dispensed sub-market-rate contracts. This is a straight-up diversion of money from FIFA's coffers to the pockets of the board members.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 04:37
|
|
|
So in other words, there's really no reason to give a single gently caress about this case? What do I care if FIFA runs itself into the ground through inefficient business practices? Depressing, but not surprising, that this is what the U.S. is going after them for when there are far more egregious issues to consider.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 06:46
|
|
|
The Born Approx. posted:So in other words, there's really no reason to give a single gently caress about this case? What do I care if FIFA runs itself into the ground through inefficient business practices? Depressing, but not surprising, that this is what the U.S. is going after them for. Well, for one thing FIFA donated roughly $750,000 to relief for Haiti after the earthquake and one of the dudes who was just arrested skimmed roughly half of that into dummy companies where it then disappeared into thin air. That probably had human repercussions worth giving a gently caress about.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 06:49
|
|
|
The Born Approx. posted:So in other words, there's really no reason to give a single gently caress about this case? What do I care if FIFA runs itself into the ground through inefficient business practices? Depressing, but not surprising, that this is what the U.S. is going after them for when there are far more egregious issues to consider. Qatar.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 07:02
|
|
|
Strudel Man posted:Yeah, they can use wire fraud to nab you. But as a general proposition, the act itself doesn't seem to be illegal at the federal level. Interestingly, in page 114 of the indictment, they are using the fact that it's illegal under NY law as part of the charges for wire fraud and racketeering. edit: It's a moot point, but I do wonder if given FIFA's power and that some of its officials also represent their governments, it could violate the FCPA. Xandu fucked around with this message at 07:11 on May 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 07:05
|
|
|
The Born Approx. posted:So in other words, there's really no reason to give a single gently caress about this case? What do I care if FIFA runs itself into the ground through inefficient business practices? Depressing, but not surprising, that this is what the U.S. is going after them for when there are far more egregious issues to consider. I mean they probably aren't stealing from you personally but you do get your money stolen from corporate crime of this sort all the time. Do you only want the government to prosecute crimes that only pertaining to you personally?
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 07:06
|
|
|
Bip Roberts posted:I mean they probably aren't stealing from you personally but you do get your money stolen from corporate crime of this sort all the time. Do you only want the government to prosecute crimes that only pertaining to you personally? The only moral criminal prosecution is my criminal prosecution. 
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 07:14
|
|
|
The Born Approx. posted:So in other words, there's really no reason to give a single gently caress about this case? What do I care if FIFA runs itself into the ground through inefficient business practices? Depressing, but not surprising, that this is what the U.S. is going after them for when there are far more egregious issues to consider. 4-500 deaths projected for Qatar to finish their world cup stadiums, a bid that should have never been accepted as its literally impossible to play soccer there during June/July so FIFA moved the world cup to Jan/Feb which will impact the Euro leagues drastically, to which FIFA said "Tough poo poo".
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 07:20
|
|
|
Yeah like is your position here that bribery and kickbacks are OK? I can certainly understand feeling like this is probably standard business practice, and this is small potatoes compared to (insert other corrupt company/organization here) but c'mon, you gotta start somewhere.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 07:24
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Yeah like is your position here that bribery and kickbacks are OK? I can certainly understand feeling like this is probably standard business practice, and this is small potatoes compared to (insert other corrupt company/organization here) but c'mon, you gotta start somewhere. The kicker is this isnt small potatoes. This is billions of dollars in fines. And to those saying "oh that never happens" those who have already pleaded guilty have to give up $150,000,000. This is a gigantic case.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 07:56
|
|
|
Do we know why FIFA was stupid enough to run their bribes through US banks or conduct the deals on US soil? Since it sounds like many of the charges refer to relatively recent events (within the last five years), I can't imagine why FIFA wouldn't have run the bribe money through banks like HSBC or UBS that clearly didn't mind shady transactions, and were based in countries that don't have the RICO act or anti-terrorism laws giving broad jurisdiction to prosecutors. I'm guessing that it's mostly a case of FIFA assuming they'd never get caught (and maybe seeing US banks walk away untouched from collapsing the economy), but you think an organization engaged in widespread bribery that's based in a country famous for banking shenanigans would be a little better at the whole bribery thing.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 08:03
|
|
|
Bip Roberts posted:Right, they received bribes and dispensed sub-market-rate contracts. This is a straight-up diversion of money from FIFA's coffers to the pockets of the board members. Yeah but if I ran a business or became an executive, my only goal would be to make disgusting amounts of money myself, because otherwise I wouldn't put up with the chore of running a business or being an executive.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 08:41
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
Xandu posted:Interestingly, in page 114 of the indictment, they are using the fact that it's illegal under NY law as part of the charges for wire fraud and racketeering. I don't think FCPA applies for most defendants because its relevant for Americans/American-enough individuals bribing foreign governments. I think 2 of the folks indicted are American? If I recall correctly
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 09:10
|
|
|
Yeah, private enterprise is still heavily regulated to provide something of a fair environment - at least, to a degree where FIFA's blatancy was an offense to the whole system. They also matter because football's so popular in much of the world it might as well be a public utility, and FIFA became so powerful and influential through controlling the sport that many nations' peoples loved to watch that they became difficult for governments to regulate. Then there's things like the Qatar bid and the repercussions that has had, and honestly anywhere where vast sums of money are being moved around illicitly there's cause to crack down because it becomes a magnet for other illegal activity. The assholes skimming all that money aren't investing it all in childrens hospitals, I wouldn't be surprised if investigations into some of the plaintiffs turn up other, "juicier" crimes - surely someone's been murdered over sums of money that big somewhere or other.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 09:33
|
|
|
Grey Fox posted:What's the etiquette for offering and accepting bribes for big-ticket items like becoming a World Cup host? Do you come to a handshake agreement before transferring the funds? Do a bunch of different countries get into a bidding war and you just go with the high bidder while pocketing everyone else's "deposits"? Or do you just throw a bunch of money at these guys all the time and wait for them to come through on something big? Officials show up to a massive party and there's brown paper bags full of cash in their hotel room. I can't remember which of the members claimed this but it's been public a while. Also you go to qatar to talk about slavery and come back saying "no slavery here" wearing rolexes.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 09:41
|
|
|
The Born Approx. posted:So in other words, there's really no reason to give a single gently caress about this case? What do I care if FIFA runs itself into the ground through inefficient business practices? Depressing, but not surprising, that this is what the U.S. is going after them for when there are far more egregious issues to consider. On top of other reasons mentioned here, I wouldn't want those corrupt FIFA crooks anywhere near Football, the King of Sports. I want it to be clean and fair, and it just isn't at the moment. pentyne posted:4-500 deaths projected for Qatar to finish their world cup stadiums, a bid that should have never been accepted as its literally impossible to play soccer there during June/July so FIFA moved the world cup to Jan/Feb which will impact the Euro leagues drastically, to which FIFA said "Tough poo poo". I have no idea how this is supposed to work. And did you guys know that the decision to move the World Cup in Qatar to December came only quite recently? Until that moment they literally thought that it's possible to play football in +45 C weather. But I have more shocking news. The Estonian representative in FIFA said that there is a small possibility that if Blatter is re-elected, that UEFA might pull out of FIFA and subsequently, from the 2018 World Cup as well.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 10:01
|
|
|
OhYeah posted:I have no idea how this is supposed to work. And did you guys know that the decision to move the World Cup in Qatar to December came only quite recently? Until that moment they literally thought that it's possible to play football in +45 C weather. In the bid Qatar promised they would air condition the open air stadiums. Turns out this is not actually technologically plausible.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 10:51
|
|
|
What's with all these events (FIFA events, Olympics, F1 races) being awarded to horrible shitholes exclusively, anyway? Can't a halfway decent place put together a decent bribe?
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 11:48
|
|
|
PT6A posted:What's with all these events (FIFA events, Olympics, F1 races) being awarded to horrible shitholes exclusively, anyway? Can't a halfway decent place put together a decent bribe? There is less oversight and less public outrcries. Which means more money to the pockets of top FIFA officials and their cronies.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 11:54
|
|
|
Now adding insult to injury. Looks like the UK's Serious Fraud Office may also be getting involved. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32931356
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 12:11
|
|
|
Venmoch posted:Now adding insult to injury. Looks like the UK's Serious Fraud Office may also be getting involved. I think a lot of people smell blood. This is going to become very interesting in the next few weeks.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 12:15
|
|
|
This is great. Can the DOJ go after boxing next and clean the drat sport up? It is a complete joke at the moment.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 12:33
|
|
|
 Sepp Blatter explains himself: "If the smear campaign against me doesn't stop, I'll just give the next world cup to ISIS"
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 12:36
|
|
|
"Serious Fraud Office" is perhaps the most British name possible.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 12:39
|
|
|
raverrn posted:"Serious Fraud Office" is perhaps the most British name possible.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 13:00
|
|
|
OhYeah posted:
That's just talk, I don't think any EU football association would draw out of the World Cup for this - people have short attention spans and want their football badly.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 13:04
|
|
|
Junior G-man posted:That's just talk, I don't think any EU football association would draw out of the World Cup for this - people have short attention spans and want their football badly. They are asking for players to play in a potentially dangerous Russia, and then compromise their European playing contracts to instead play in a literal desert because they had to move the games to winter due to a high chance of players literally dying. There are limits to what people are willing to put up with.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 13:10
|
|
|
Lid posted:They are asking for players to play in a potentially dangerous Russia, and then compromise their European playing contracts to instead play in a literal desert because they had to move the games to winter due to a high chance of players literally dying. There are limits to what people are willing to put up with. Yes, those poor uncompensated footballers. Oh wai ...
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 13:13
|
|
|
Inferior Third Season posted:Only if there isn't actually an accompanying "Ridiculous Fraud Office". "I see on your expenses you've been claiming slide whistles at the retail cost when you were in fact acquiring them wholesale. Care to explain, Mr Bigglesworth?"
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 13:21
|
|
|
Constant Omari (a member of FIFA's executive committee) has just revealed that Germany bought the rights to host the 2006 World Cup. There is always more and it is always better.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 13:32
|
|
|
mdemone posted:Constant Omari (a member of FIFA's executive committee) has just revealed that Germany bought the rights to host the 2006 World Cup. There is always more and it is always better. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that every single one in the last 24 years had been bought.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 14:39
|
|
|
Inferior Third Season posted:Only if there isn't actually an accompanying "Ridiculous Fraud Office". Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type makes me puke, you vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert! ...Oh! Oh I'm sorry, this is the Ridiculous Abuse Office. You want 12A next door.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 14:51
|
|
|
mdemone posted:Constant Omari (a member of FIFA's executive committee) has just revealed that Germany bought the rights to host the 2006 World Cup. There is always more and it is always better. Deutschland, ein Bestechungsmärchen 
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 14:54
|
|
|
az posted:I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that every single one in the last 24 years had been bought. As someone that only pays attention to soccer every 2 years at world cups, I thought that was just how it worked and was apparently legal.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 14:55
|
|
|
Radish posted:As someone that only pays attention to soccer every 2 years at world cups, I thought that was just how it worked and was apparently legal. If you gotta do capitalism, do it right 
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 14:59
|
|
|
Radish posted:As someone that only pays attention to soccer every 2 years at world cups, I thought that was just how it worked and was apparently legal. How much attention you pay is quite obvious !
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 15:01
|
|
|
The only part I was wrong about was the legal bit apparently.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 15:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 20:17 |
|
|
I don't think Russia is going anywhere at this notice, but I really hope they sink Qatar. It's a moral and logistic disaster.pentyne posted:4-500 deaths projected for Qatar to finish their world cup stadiums, a bid that should have never been accepted as its literally impossible to play soccer there during June/July so FIFA moved the world cup to Jan/Feb which will impact the Euro leagues drastically, to which FIFA said "Tough poo poo". My understanding is you missed a zero on that of death count. It's beyond the pale even by the standards of international sport.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 15:09
|
|
