|
awesome-express posted:Shouldn't that be the CIA? I thought the Feds only work at a federal level.
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 07:05 |
|
|
Grey Fox posted:It's FBI; they're not planning to torture him. Unfortunately. I think there's still time to get the Chicago PD involved in this.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
Sepp Blatter must be the sacrifice for Swiss cooperation on the rest.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
Peel posted:The other voters are also corrupt. Hey I never said the others shouldn't arrest the other ones as well. Arrest for all! Although perhaps give the three who gave donkey votes a suspended sentence. Corrupt very possibly, but probably not the most corrupt, and in the end isn't the best we can ever hope for.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:28
|
|
|
archangelwar posted:Sepp Blatter must be the sacrifice for Swiss cooperation on the rest. The Swiss have instructed bladder not to leave the country, and Jack Warner has already promised to flip on him. Everything burns. Edit: great autocorrect!
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:30
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:I don't give a poo poo about football/soccer and am enjoying this thread and the one in SAS immensely. It's the first time in my life the US has done something big and so unambiguously good that most of the world is cheerleading us. tsipras2015 2m ago Imperialists - lost! (despite their poodle from Jordan) International community condemn Britain and ignorant US! Good news! kowalli 4m ago good news, FU USA jimbog 15m ago Well yankies tried your best now, gently caress off. Dilkington fucked around with this message at 18:37 on May 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:34
|
|
Can we please have more of this and less military adventures and GOP insanity?
|
The Born Approx. posted:So in other words, there's really no reason to give a single gently caress about this case? What do I care if FIFA runs itself into the ground through inefficient business practices? Depressing, but not surprising, that this is what the U.S. is going after them for when there are far more egregious issues to consider. So let me get this straight, the question is why anyone should care about the investigation of a multinational billion dollar corporation directly responsible for unethical and deadly business practices?
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
Dilkington posted:tsipras2015 It's so cute that the rest of the world doesn't realize how thoroughly the DOJ will gently caress FIFA.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:It's so cute that the rest of the world doesn't realize how thoroughly the DOJ will gently caress FIFA. to be fair the Fed usually leaves the most visible rich people on the planet alone, this will be a neat lesson for all the observers internationally who seem to have confused this wing of the DOJ with the usual US government propaganda.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:It's so cute that the rest of the world doesn't realize how thoroughly the DOJ will gently caress FIFA. I think you're too optimistic, or I'm too cynical, because if they start getting blowback ("the US is destroying our game!") I can see them quietly wrapping up the case and taking plea deals from a few midlevel patsies.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:15
|
|
|
Family Values posted:I think you're too optimistic, or I'm too cynical, because if they start getting blowback ("the US is destroying our game!") I can see them quietly wrapping up the case and taking plea deals from a few midlevel patsies. You underestimate the degree to which virtually every nation (and their FA) are aware of the massive scale of this corruption -- they are almost uniformly ecstatic that the Americans are going to raze FIFA. This is one bowl of mashed potatoes that really needs our dick in it, and everyone knows it. It might actually be the biggest foreign policy triumph in decades, without any exaggeration.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
And having the largest foreign policy triumph in decades be about loving football executives (and not, say, eliminating world hunger or lucking into backing the right guys in the middle east) is pathetic.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:25
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
Family Values posted:I think you're too optimistic, or I'm too cynical, because if they start getting blowback ("the US is destroying our game!") I can see them quietly wrapping up the case and taking plea deals from a few midlevel patsies. I'm betting on the middle ground. They will prosecute a bunch of people including Blatter. They won't completely dismantle fifa, and the next generation of executives will be corrupt in a less extravagant fashion. Basically a bunch of people will get prosecuted but the systemic corruption will stay rooted in place. Hail Satan.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:25
|
|
|
blowfish posted:And having the largest foreign policy triumph in decades be about loving football executives (and not, say, eliminating world hunger or lucking into backing the right guys in the middle east) is pathetic. You'll get no argument from me on that point.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:27
|
|
|
Making a non-corrupt football governing body would be a herculean task which the DOJ is not interested in undertaking, but if they can dial things back from their current absurd level and stop outright monstrosities like Qatar 2022 happening, I'll take it.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:30
|
|
|
Family Values posted:I think you're too optimistic, or I'm too cynical, because if they start getting blowback ("the US is destroying our game!") I can see them quietly wrapping up the case and taking plea deals from a few midlevel patsies.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:32
|
|
|
Peel posted:Making a non-corrupt football governing body would be a herculean task which the DOJ is not interested in undertaking, but if they can dial things back from their current absurd level and stop outright monstrosities like Qatar 2022 happening, I'll take it. I think that's why they are scorching the earth here. Making an example of this generation of corrupt plutocrats, if only to give the next generation some pause before they repeat the behavior.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
The tree of
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:34
|
|
|
Family Values posted:I think you're too optimistic, or I'm too cynical, because if they start getting blowback ("the US is destroying our game!") I can see them quietly wrapping up the case and taking plea deals from a few midlevel patsies. If it was just the DOJ bringing up just corruption/bribery/wire fraud charges then I absolutely agree that they would just stop at the mid level patsies. The fact that they're bringing RICO charges against those mid level people means they've basically announced that literally zero fucks will be given when it comes to blowback and they're not interested in stopping until everyone has either proven they're innocent or their head is on a pike outside the courthouse.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:36
|
|
|
blowfish posted:And having the largest foreign policy triumph in decades be about loving football executives (and not, say, eliminating world hunger or lucking into backing the right guys in the middle east) is pathetic. replace world hunger with world obesity.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:37
|
|
|
mdemone posted:You underestimate the degree to which virtually every nation (and their FA) are aware of the massive scale of this corruption -- they are almost uniformly ecstatic that the Americans are going to raze FIFA. Also the Swiss have already opened their own investigation, and the Brits are talking about throwing their weight in. I think the world is smelling blood in the water.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:43
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:If it was just the DOJ bringing up just corruption/bribery/wire fraud charges then I absolutely agree that they would just stop at the mid level patsies. The fact that they're bringing RICO charges against those mid level people means they've basically announced that literally zero fucks will be given when it comes to blowback and they're not interested in stopping until everyone has either proven they're innocent or their head is on a pike outside the courthouse. I'm pretty unfamiliar with the US legal system - could you elaborate on what this means? I have to say that my initial reaction was that this will punish some of the most egregious low hanging fruit and that like all good kingpin's, Blatter has been squealing on his rivals for years. I am delighted to hear that I am wrong though!
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:43
|
|
|
Despatcher posted:I'm pretty unfamiliar with the US legal system - could you elaborate on what this means? I have to say that my initial reaction was that this will punish some of the most egregious low hanging fruit and that like all good kingpin's, Blatter has been squealing on his rivals for years. RICO is what the DOJ uses to decapitate Mafia families. It's one of the biggest guns in their arsenal, and has taken out entire police departments before.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:47
|
|
|
Despatcher posted:I'm pretty unfamiliar with the US legal system - could you elaborate on what this means? I have to say that my initial reaction was that this will punish some of the most egregious low hanging fruit and that like all good kingpin's, Blatter has been squealing on his rivals for years. RICO is specifically designed to go after the mafia. It is essentially a kingpin-busting law.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:48
|
|
|
Despatcher posted:I'm pretty unfamiliar with the US legal system - could you elaborate on what this means? I have to say that my initial reaction was that this will punish some of the most egregious low hanging fruit and that like all good kingpin's, Blatter has been squealing on his rivals for years. Prosecuting under the RICO statute means they are going after them the same way they went after organized crime a few decades back. RICO is written in a way that the bosses at the top are prosecuted for their underlings crimes even if the bosses themselves had little to no personal stake in it. If RICO is getting pushed it means their whole strategy is going to revolve around pinching the underlings to take out the heads of the organization. It's not going to stop with the people who are currently being prosecuted. Not by a long shot. This will go all the way to Blatter.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
RICO is Suave.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
Despatcher posted:I'm pretty unfamiliar with the US legal system - could you elaborate on what this means? I have to say that my initial reaction was that this will punish some of the most egregious low hanging fruit and that like all good kingpin's, Blatter has been squealing on his rivals for years. IANAL and law goons can correct any of this if I'm wrong, but RICO basically takes whatever penalties someone would normally get and doubles them. Then it allows for the prosecution of "bosses" that allowed crimes to be committed in the name of the organization as if they committed them themselves. Add to that RICO requires defendants to post a bond for triple the damages they are accused of because of the terrible damages clause and so shell corporations they have setup can't just take their money and run if it looks like there will be a guilty verdict. Personally, I would rather be brought up on patriot act charges than RICO act charges.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 20:02
|
|
|
Basically, there's not much point to filing RICO charges if you're not going after the leaders of an organization and/or the organization as a whole. That's why people are optimistic.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
mdemone posted:This is one bowl of mashed potatoes that really needs our dick in it I just want to stress how fantastic an expression this is.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:IANAL and law goons can correct any of this if I'm wrong, but RICO basically takes whatever penalties someone would normally get and doubles them. Then it allows for the prosecution of "bosses" that allowed crimes to be committed in the name of the organization as if they committed them themselves. Add to that RICO requires defendants to post a bond for triple the damages they are accused of because of the terrible damages clause and so shell corporations they have setup can't just take their money and run if it looks like there will be a guilty verdict. Woof. This is very heartening. So the very fact they've used the RICO statute indicates that they have a very very strong case? Normally I am pretty irritated by US legal/tax stuff in Europe (fatca etc) but I have to say I am delighted at this. Good show chaps. Carry on. Honestly - from watching Bladder's victory speech I wonder if he's not putting in some ground work as as addled geriatric that's far too old to stand trial. It was positively awful.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
Despatcher posted:Woof. This is very heartening. So the very fact they've used the RICO statute indicates that they have a very very strong case? Normally I am pretty irritated by US legal/tax stuff in Europe (fatca etc) but I have to say I am delighted at this. Good show chaps. Carry on. A very strong case and a decided desire to prosecute it as fully as possible. Plus, it's Lynch's first big case, so she's gonna be going for history.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:14
|
|
|
pangstrom posted:RICO is Suave.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
Despatcher posted:So the very fact they've used the RICO statute indicates that they have a very very strong case? Normally I am pretty irritated by US legal/tax stuff in Europe (fatca etc) but I have to say I am delighted at this. Good show chaps. Carry on. The Feds have a 92% conviction rate with almost all of that 8% being technicalities rather than innocence, and apparently they've been investigating and building evidence for years upon years. The FBI does not like to lose, especially in high profile cases, and if they're being this ballsy they're probably feeling very confident and will drop every hammer they can get their hands on. Add to it that RICO is about the nastiest set of laws on the books, and Americans are confident that the DOJ is going to feed FIFA's leadership into a woodchipper with good reason. And I think Loretta Lynch knows this is going to put her in the history books. Nothing's a sure thing, of course, but there's lots of reason to believe the DOJ is going to pull it off.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
blowfish posted:And having the largest foreign policy triumph in decades be about loving football executives (and not, say, eliminating world hunger or lucking into backing the right guys in the middle east) is pathetic.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
PerpetualSelf posted:People in the World Care more about football than world hunger  humans are assholes
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:21
|
|
|
What they mean specifically when they're asking 'what RICO means' is how and why making these charges against the mid level executives somehow constitutes a threat to Blatter or even FIFA as an organization. The mobster types that RICO was intended to break usually use a "boss and flunkie" business model, where the actual idiots doing the crimes are expendable and busting any number of them will result in the organization just replacing them faster than the police can bust them. The mob bosses stay in the background, just giving orders in a way that can't be traced easily, collecting the proceeds while letting their flunkies go to jail, along with promises of advancement in the organization if they're loyal (or just death threats if they're not). RICO acknowledges that the bosses rarely can be charged directly with the evidence available from the crimes themselves. It allows law enforcement that can show the crimes are consistently coming from one organization to threaten those flunkies with an especially horrible fate, but also the promise of a reduced sentence or even immunity if they testify against their otherwise almost impervious boss. While this is pretty standard law enforcement practice generally, RICO gives it teeth terrifying enough to turn mobsters against their own even knowing what their associates may do afterward. Invoking RICO means the DOJ isn't just charging those few, it means those are the few they have definite evidence on, but they also have evidence that the organization as a whole is corrupt (likely based on what they got from the US guy) and they believe by offering reduced sentencing to those arrested that they will be able to drive charges against everybody involved in anything illegal. There's no real point in going to such enormous effort and expense to the taxpayers without a firm belief that there is more than enough Bad Stuff going on inside FIFA to put away the whole crew, they're just not sure which specific crimes they have record of can be attributed to which individuals. Still wondering what they found in all those documents and computers that were seized in the raids, but that may not come out for a while. This entire thing may play out for months, even years; US criminal proceedings, especially those this large, aren't known to move at warp speed. The only surprise is how sloppy the people they're catching have reportedly been. The guy who made millions and just sat in a 24k/co condo in New York, never even bothering to file fake tax returns? The FIFA exec whose US immigration form listed him as a decorative rock salesman with severe dementia? It sounds like they just didn't bother with hiding poo poo because they thought FIFA's multinational status meant they were untouchable, and up until now they sort of were. If the rest follows that line, the thing could collapse quickly as soon as someone serious really investigates it. Short version: Charging the low and mid level types first is how RICO is meant to proceed, if it works expect to see more charges against possibly even Blatter, but it may be weeks or months. Coldbird fucked around with this message at 21:26 on May 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:24
|
|
|
Listen, the wikipedia page alone contains answers to most of the questions ITT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act The TL;DR is that it's a very serious piece of legislation that possibly overextends the Department of Justice's reach but that in this case means a very serious world of hurt on ANYONE remotely connected to these bribes, especially the head honchos. This is the "we're not loving around" law of the Attourney General. This is a career making case for the AG. It's a piece of fantastic positive foreign attention for the US politically. Do the math.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:26
|
|
|
Also, bear in mind that the Swiss are already conducting their own investigation in the USDOJ's wake and the British government has already made noises about siccing their Serious Fraud Office (I think that's what the BBC story called it) on FIFA. If the US can bite a big chunk out of FIFA, I'd expect several other nations to start a feeding frenzy.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:29
|
|
|
So when this investigation implicates that literally every single team in the EUFA is guilty of the same charges what happens? Does the corruption become de facto acceptable and then after the head of FIFA gets taken down it just goes back to business as usual? Call me a cynic, but how is this going to improve anything at all? Without strong oversight and the willingness of countries to "take their ball and go home" from corrupt organizations, we are just swapping one hyper-capitalist organization with another. ate shit on live tv fucked around with this message at 21:38 on May 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 07:05 |
|
|
Despatcher posted:Woof. This is very heartening. So the very fact they've used the RICO statute indicates that they have a very very strong case? Normally I am pretty irritated by US legal/tax stuff in Europe (fatca etc) but I have to say I am delighted at this. Good show chaps. Carry on. I'm assuming most news about US corruption that leaves our boarders revolves around wall street and how companies get fined pennies compared to what they made from breaking rules which is mostly because the SEC/FTC that handles that stuff is really toothless because banks / wall street lobbied (legally bribed) congress to make the SEC/FTC toothless. The DOJ is totally separate from the SEC/FTC and unlike the SEC is about as far from toothless as possible since it handles the investigation and prosecution of things like terrorism, civil rights abuses, interstate/international fraud, and racketeering (bribery/extortion/money laundering/obstruction of justice) and also has the full resources of the federal government backing it with no one lobbying to strip it of it's power. The DOJ also has an absurdly high prosecution rate since they are more than willing to wait and build air tight cases against people (in this case the investigation has been going on for almost 25 years) as opposed to grasping at straws like most local law enforcement agencies do in the US. Adding RICO into the mix means that not only is the DOJ going after someone but they're very sure that the organization they belong to is corrupt to the core and will not stop until they've 100% uncovered every single illegal activity and brought charges against not only the people that did it but also the people that allowed it to go on. Think of it like the SEC/FTC levying fines is the UN issuing strongly worded statements on a country, the DOJ bringing charges is the US invading a country, and the DOJ using RICO is the US saying YOLO and nuking every square inch of a country. Despatcher posted:Honestly - from watching Bladder's victory speech I wonder if he's not putting in some ground work as as addled geriatric that's far too old to stand trial. It was positively awful. To old to stand trial isn't something that actually happens in the US. We try people as young as 12 like they're adults if the crime is serious enough and while we might let someone out of prison if they're severely old that only happens days before they die. The US absolutely does not give a gently caress if you're too old/young to stand trial. A Winner is Jew fucked around with this message at 22:04 on May 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2015 21:59
|
|