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Ras Het posted:That is literally about four years worth of reading, and "compelling story" is about the stupidest loving description you could come up with for, like, Dante or Homer. And the easily approachable books out of those are bad. I'm lost. I don't understand your criticism. I made a list of my favorite classics and included various styles and themes for him to choose from, but somehow you see this as something negative? Why can't I describe The Odyssey and the Divine Comedy as compelling stories? What I'm trying to transmit to him is that he can choose from any of the books I suggested because, in my own loving personal opinion, they are interesting stories that will make him want to read and finish them. janssendalt fucked around with this message at 12:56 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 12:26
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Raxivace posted:I'll have to look into that one. Is The General and His Labyrinth good? The Wikipedia article made it sound pretty neat, so I was thinking about ordering a copy. It's very good, but as Mel Mudkiper suggested, I would read Love in the Time of Cholera after 100 Years of Solitude. Also, there's a very good film adaptation of one of his novellas: No One Writes to the Colonel, in case that's something you'd also be interested in.
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May 29, 2015 12:42
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Quandary posted:I have read very very little classic literature, reccomend me a good first book to start with please. It all depends on what you like. What sort of movies do you like? I'd suggest starting with something relatively fun that has fairly straightforward writing, like say The Maltese Falcon (especially if you like cop/detective movies). If you like horror or the supernatural, yeah, Bram Stoker's Dracula is a decent choice. Other good choices are funny books. Huckleberry Finn or Life on the Mississippi. Maybe Slaughterhouse Five. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 12:58 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 12:53
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janssendalt posted:I'm lost. I don't understand your criticism. Ras Het has a thing about people saying stuff about plot in books which I sort of agree with for the most part but he seems to get pretty worked up about it. Basically something having a compelling story is a bad reason to say that it's classically literatureally good, though I get that a lot of people, especially when they're just getting into good books quite like a plot to drive them on.
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May 29, 2015 12:58
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Start with The Stranger, IMO. Simple, short, effective.
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May 29, 2015 13:11
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DOn't read ffs.
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May 29, 2015 13:12
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The Inferno is super approachable, imo. You don't need a strong background in lit theory or history to get basic enjoyment out of it. Purgatorio is boring as poo poo, but it's boring as poo poo by design, which makes it brilliant.
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May 29, 2015 14:03
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End Of Worlds posted:The Inferno is super approachable, imo. You don't need a strong background in lit theory or history to get basic enjoyment out of it. Purgatorio is loving creepy because the punishments are worse than hell but filled with joyous singing rather than screams of torment
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May 29, 2015 14:22
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Don'te
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May 29, 2015 14:53
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CestMoi posted:Ras Het has a thing about people saying stuff about plot in books which I sort of agree with for the most part but he seems to get pretty worked up about it. Basically something having a compelling story is a bad reason to say that it's classically literatureally good, though I get that a lot of people, especially when they're just getting into good books quite like a plot to drive them on. I do have that thing but even putting that aside I think if you're gonna like pick up Don Quixote like "so this should be an exciting book" you're gonna be like what the gently caress after the first 300 pages out of literally a thousand of an unfunny mad guy roaming the countryside, speaking oldendayse and beating people up, and not try another Classic for years. You read it because it's the first modern novel and an important conversation about illusions, delusions and values in a horrible religious tyranny The Stranger is good.
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May 29, 2015 15:34
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Ras Het posted:I do have that thing but even putting that aside I think if you're gonna like pick up Don Quixote like "so this should be an exciting book" you're gonna be like what the gently caress after the first 300 pages out of literally a thousand of an unfunny mad guy roaming the countryside, speaking oldendayse and beating people up, and not try another Classic for years. You read it because it's the first modern novel and an important conversation about illusions, delusions and values in a horrible religious tyranny I've always said the reason everyone talks about the windmill scene is because it happens on page 60 of a 900 page novel.
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May 29, 2015 17:57
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Please do not read classics simply because they are classics. They are generally really good at what they do but reading the old man and the sea is going to do nothing for you if you are not feeling or wanting that kind of story. Also if your not in your teens catcher in the rye is going to seem really dumb (because it will not resonate as much and seem embarrassing which is the point because we are all like that at that age)
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May 29, 2015 18:48
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Stravinsky posted:Also if your not in your teens catcher in the rye is going to seem really dumb (because it will not resonate as much and seem embarrassing which is the point because we are all like that at that age) Same re: 1984 also Orwell was a snitch
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May 29, 2015 20:00
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Ras Het posted:Same re: 1984 also Orwell was a snitch 1984 scared the poo poo out of me when i was in middle school
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May 29, 2015 20:01
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Purgatorio is loving creepy because the punishments are worse than hell but filled with joyous singing rather than screams of torment the envious having their eyes sewn shut is super disturbing but nothing beats hell's forest of suicides for sheer horror imo
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May 29, 2015 20:25
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Its probably super pretentious but I feel like wanting to find an "accessible" or "exciting" book of literature is missing the point. Not to say literature should not engage you, but the value of capital L literature should be that it gives you a perspective about life, yourself, society, or history that helps shape and redefine your own understanding of the world around you. You cannot just say "recommend me some literature" or even "recommend me some exciting literature". You have to ask yourself what matters the most to you in your own sense of identity, and what questions you struggle to understand, and then find something that also tackles those challenges. That is what makes literature worthwhile.
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May 29, 2015 21:11
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I'm almost through Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon, a book already cemented as my favorite novel of all time. This kind of complexity, absurdity and fantastic metaphorical imagery is my jam. I read up on the author and how he's so incredibly reclusive. Does anyone know for sure that he's not actually a group of people? It's kind of hard for me to believe that one person could write such an ingenious work and still be publishing such complex, relevant books even to this day (Bleeding Edge).
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May 29, 2015 21:16
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This thread is actually Thomas Pynchon. I did Mason and Dixon and you can blaim Ras Het for Bleeding Edge
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May 29, 2015 21:18
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Its probably super pretentious but I feel like wanting to find an "accessible" or "exciting" book of literature is missing the point. Not to say literature should not engage you, but the value of capital L literature should be that it gives you a perspective about life, yourself, society, or history that helps shape and redefine your own understanding of the world around you. I don't necessarily agree. I think if someone's asking for "exciting literature" then perhaps they're looking for a classic adventure story. I would tell someone who asked for this to pick up something like Ivanhoe, the Count of Monte Cristo, the Three Musketeers, Kidnapped, etc. I might even suggest something more recent, like Steinbeck's Cup of Gold or The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights. These all do what you say literature should do, but are exciting narratives as well. The second part though, I can get behind. I hate that kind of one size fits all entertainment suggestion request. I don't expect a giant curated list of someone's likes and dislikes but some guidance would be nice. Otherwise anyone asking is just going to get a bunch of standard canon entries, for whatever they're asking about.
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May 29, 2015 21:21
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Most people don't really have deep Questions or Issues they need reflection on because all of us normies think about life like "why am I so certain I'm gonna get sacked? Am I depressed?" or "why can I only get a semi half the time? Am I depressed?" and you can't order a prescription book for those. Well, you can, hence Paulo Coelho, but you know. Literature's strength is surprise.
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May 29, 2015 21:28
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The Unholy Ghost posted:I'm almost through Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon, a book already cemented as my favorite novel of all time. This kind of complexity, absurdity and fantastic metaphorical imagery is my jam. I read up on the author and how he's so incredibly reclusive. Does anyone know for sure that he's not actually a group of people? It's kind of hard for me to believe that one person could write such an ingenious work and still be publishing such complex, relevant books even to this day (Bleeding Edge). There are a very few photographs of him, and he voiced himself on the Simpsons and for the Inherent Vice trailer. Really, he's probably not particularly reclusive so much as he avoids publicizing himself.
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May 29, 2015 21:28
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The Unholy Ghost posted:I'm almost through Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon, a book already cemented as my favorite novel of all time. This kind of complexity, absurdity and fantastic metaphorical imagery is my jam. I read up on the author and how he's so incredibly reclusive. Does anyone know for sure that he's not actually a group of people? It's kind of hard for me to believe that one person could write such an ingenious work and still be publishing such complex, relevant books even to this day (Bleeding Edge). There's a really weird theory that Pynchon is a succession of people each of whom learned to write from the previous Pynchon. So like V & Lot 49 are original goofy navy Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow is a close friend of original Pynchon and everything after that is either 1 or 2 possible sons of friend of Pynchon. Alternatively, he's just a really good writer.
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May 29, 2015 21:30
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Okay, fair enough, but isn't it still possible that he's just a figurehead for a team of writers? I can't get over the fact that one dude, 78 and still writing, seems to know literally everything about the past 200 or so years of history, judging by synopses of his other books. It's clearly all a conspiracy  EDIT: I could easily believe a succession theory. Taking a quick look at Bleeding Edge the writing seemed pretty different from GR, 40 years of writing apart or not.
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May 29, 2015 21:34
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He's WIlliam Gaddis who was, uh... who was he meant to be? Salinger?
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May 29, 2015 21:37
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Read the intro to Slow Learner he gets pretty introspective in it and when he's talking about one of his stories that is set in 19th century Egypt he talks about how he found a 19th century travel guide to Eqypt in a book store and wrote the story based on that without doing any other research. I assume that's exactly what he does with all his books, only with more random travel guides.
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May 29, 2015 21:37
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Also they wrote a bunch of letters to a san fran newspaper pretending to be a baglady.
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May 29, 2015 21:38
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Gravity;'s Rainbow is based entirely around a Lonely Planet: Nazi Germany he picked up for a fiver.
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May 29, 2015 21:38
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I just thought of an excellent way to get into classic lit: argue about it with Nabokov: http://www.mjiles.com/obookispage/?page_id=157 He did praise a lot about Don Quixote, though. It's a cruel and crude book in any case. Really happy about Mann. Not happy about Flaubert, who is infinitely loving boring.
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May 29, 2015 21:44
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I don't think it's impossible for a single person to know that much stuff about everything but I concluded after reading TCoL49 that Pynchon being either a group of people or a just a name that is passed down to other writers makes too much sense and fits too well to not be true.
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May 29, 2015 21:46
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The Unholy Ghost posted:Okay, fair enough, but isn't it still possible that he's just a figurehead for a team of writers? I can't get over the fact that one dude, 78 and still writing, seems to know literally everything about the past 200 or so years of history, judging by synopses of his other books. Mason & Dixon took 22 years to write (granted, Vineland, at least, was also written during most of this period) and he's stopped writing short stories and doesn't do publicity, so he's got plenty of time to do research.
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May 29, 2015 21:47
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End Of Worlds posted:the envious having their eyes sewn shut is super disturbing but nothing beats hell's forest of suicides for sheer horror imo I've had nightmares about the bit in the last cantos in inferno, with the bodies encased in ice, where one guy eats the head of the poor guy directly in front of him.
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May 29, 2015 21:52
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WAY TO GO WAMPA!! posted:I don't think it's impossible for a single person to know that much stuff about everything but I concluded after reading TCoL49 that Pynchon being either a group of people or a just a name that is passed down to other writers makes too much sense and fits too well to not be true. It's possible for anyone with a library card to know that much stuff.
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May 29, 2015 22:11
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Well I can tell you with certainty there is one great book that is absolutely Literary in terms of being hugely culturally significant, and also Exciting in terms of being full of violence, magicks, curses, slavery, genocide, dub warfare, monsters, and more major character deaths than Game of Thrones. that book is The Bible by God
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May 29, 2015 23:22
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Earwicker posted:Well I can tell you with certainty there is one great book that is absolutely Literary in terms of being hugely culturally significant, and also Exciting in terms of being full of violence, magicks, curses, slavery, genocide, dub warfare, monsters, and more major character deaths than Game of Thrones. that book is The Bible by God I loved the story about the hippy who literally had his long hair as a source of his strength. the story about that socialist magician in the second book was pretty good too. the informer who tattled on him to the pigs was a jerk ulvir fucked around with this message at 23:29 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 23:27
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Earwicker posted:Well I can tell you with certainty there is one great book that is absolutely Literary in terms of being hugely culturally significant, and also Exciting in terms of being full of violence, magicks, curses, slavery, genocide, dub warfare, monsters, and more major character deaths than Game of Thrones. that book is The Bible by God (kjv)
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May 29, 2015 23:40
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So I've been thinking about reading the Divine Comedy, does anyone have a recommended translation?
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May 30, 2015 00:13
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Patrick Spens posted:So I've been thinking about reading the Divine Comedy, does anyone have a recommended translation? I like the Mark Musa version
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May 30, 2015 01:14
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Ras Het posted:I do have that thing but even putting that aside I think if you're gonna like pick up Don Quixote like "so this should be an exciting book" you're gonna be like what the gently caress after the first 300 pages out of literally a thousand of an unfunny mad guy roaming the countryside, speaking oldendayse and beating people up, and not try another Classic for years. You read it because it's the first modern novel and an important conversation about illusions, delusions and values in a horrible religious tyranny don't quixote
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May 30, 2015 01:27
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Patrick Spens posted:So I've been thinking about reading the Divine Comedy, does anyone have a recommended translation? https://wmjas.wordpress.com/2010/02/07/fifteen-translations-of-dante-compared/ There are dozens of translations out there, and I'd say it's probably more important to find an edition that has really thorough footnotes than to worry about the translator. Unless you already have a solid background in Greek and Roman history and literature, medieval Italian history and literature, Catholic theology, numerology, semiotics, etc., there will be a metric fuckton of allusions, metaphors, layers, and shades of meaning that will escape you if you don't have good footnotes. e: End Of Worlds posted:
 if you think Purgatorio is boring. Purgatorio is the best of the three IMO; it's Paradiso that's a slog.
Rabbit Hill fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 02:06
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Half of the fun the Divine Comedy is learning all of the grudges Dante held He had a lot of them
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May 30, 2015 02:10
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