Latin America: the fires immediately died down, because they needed socialism to burn

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Latin America: the fires immediately died down, because they needed socialism to burn

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BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Dias posted:

How's the public infrastructure systems, if you don't mind me asking? A lot of hard-left leaning acquaintances of mine seem to think the healthcare system in Cuba is pretty solid, for instance. As a Brazilian, sometimes it's kinda hard to have a fair view of our neighbouring countries and Latin-American neighbours, and the info we get is either "HOLY poo poo LOOK AT THOSE POORS/COMMUNIST HELLHOLES" from mainstream media or, if you had a Social/Humanes Sciences education, "EVERYONE IS LYING GLORY BE UNTO THE SOCIALIST REVOLUTION". I know Cuba isn't North Korea levels of hosed, and Venezuela is...interesting, but it's hard to get a fair look at those places.

Don't know a whole lot about the Cuban healthcare system. (Hell, I barely understand my own health care plan.) It's too esoteric for me with a lot of propaganda going in both directions, like you said. It's either the greatest thing in the world or it's a total nightmare. But from what I've read from Cuban bloggers who have direct experience with it, it's probably much better than countries that are as comparatively poor as Cuba, and you will receive treatment, but there's a lot of hidden costs that don't get talked about. So you don't pay anything at the hospital, but a lot of stuff you have to buy from state-owned TRDs (hard currency collection stores) with jacked-up prices. So you're seeing a doctor but it gets more ... complicated after that.

Transportation is interesting. There's not many cars -- about as many per capita as Yemen and Angola -- and that's more in Havana. But hitchhiking is ubiquitous so people get around. It's a practical solution but you also have to remember that it's a necessity there. Buying a bus ticket from one city to another is very expensive on a Cuban salary. The roads are ok because the country is pretty flat and easy to navigate. If you read travel guides that hype the bad situation, you'll see things like "beware of animals wandering the roads ... you'll crash and die!" But it's no more dangerous than anywhere else that has deer or other wildlife. Maybe less because cows don't really move all that fast.

I think one of the biggest problems Cuba has is that it's stifling. Communists in the 20th century assumed that what people basically want out of life is a roof over their head, food, health care, a job, a school, some parks to take their kids on the weekends, etc. and not a whole lot else. Have those things* and you'll just be a happy worker all day long (can you tell that a German invented this doctrine?). Not to get too philosophical but Cuba doesn't offer a whole lot beyond that. What does the average Cuban have to look forward to?

Again, people go about their lives and raise kids, play baseball, grow old, etc., but things are not measurably improving very much and haven't for awhile. It's stagnant. And that's why the U.S. and Cuba restoring relations, I think, was greeted with such relief there.

*quality may vary

Azran posted:

I never stopped to think something as minor as outlawing private ownership of boats would be as important for the regime as it currently is.

It says a lot, doesn't it? No private boats ... in an island country. But it also goes to show what I mean about it being stifling. It's like, to have a boat means operating a state-owned boat, which requires a job that involves boats, the required paperwork, etc. Maybe homeboy just wants to take his own boat out for a spin, y'know? But you can't do that in Cuba because homeboy will take that boat to Miami.

BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 22, 2015

# ? May 21, 2015 23:53

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# ? May 18, 2024 20:13

A3th3r: Jul 27, 2013; success is a dream & achievements are the cream

Omi-Polari posted:

Don't know a whole lot about the Cuban healthcare system. (Hell, I barely understand my own health care plan.) It's too esoteric for me with a lot of propaganda going in both directions, like you said. It's either the greatest thing in the world or it's a total nightmare. But from what I've read from Cuban bloggers who have direct experience with it, it's probably much better than countries that are as comparatively poor as Cuba, and you will receive treatment, but there's a lot of hidden costs that don't get talked about. So you don't pay anything at the hospital, but a lot of stuff you have to buy from state-owned TRDs (hard currency collection stores) with jacked-up prices. So you're seeing a doctor but it gets more ... complicated after that.

Transportation is interesting. There's not many cars -- about as many per capita as Yemen and Angola -- and that's more in Havana. But hitchhiking is ubiquitous so people get around. It's a practical solution but you also have to remember that it's a necessity there. Buying a bus ticket from one city to another is very expensive on a Cuban salary. The roads are ok because the country is pretty flat and easy to navigate. If you read travel guides that hype the bad situation, you'll see things like "beware of animals wandering the roads ... you'll crash and die!" But it's no more dangerous than anywhere else that has deer or other wildlife. Maybe less because cows don't really move all that fast.

I think one of the biggest problems Cuba has is that it's stifling. Communists in the 20th century assumed that what people basically want out of life is a roof over their head, food, health care, a job, a school, some parks to take their kids on the weekends, etc. and not a whole lot else. Have those things* and you'll just be a happy worker all day long (can you tell that a German invented this doctrine?). Not to get too philosophical but Cuba doesn't offer a whole lot beyond that. What does the average Cuban have to look forward to?

Again, people go about their lives and raise kids, play baseball, grow old, etc., but things are not measurably improving very much and haven't for awhile. It's stagnant. And that's why the U.S. and Cuba restoring relations, I think, was greeted with such relief there.

*quality may vary

It says a lot, doesn't it? No private boats ... in an island country. But it also goes to show what I mean about it being stifling. It's like, to have a boat means operating a state-owned boat, which requires a job that involves boats, the required paperwork, etc. Maybe homeboy just wants to take his own boat out for a spin, y'know? But you can't do that in Cuba because homeboy will take that boat to Miami.

interesting to read about.. more stories please

# ? May 23, 2015 02:10

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

# ? May 28, 2015 15:37

bagual: Oct 29, 2010; _{_{inconspicuous}}

They've got a meeting in the House of Cunha.

PMDB's President of the deputies chamber Eduardo Cunha is making GBS threads all over PT, even if the two parties are formally in the same coalition. He just approved legal corporate campaign funding. It's not really something new, but it used to happen under the wraps, I guess now companies will be even more unrestrained in calling in debts from candidates.

# ? May 28, 2015 19:39

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

PSDB voting to end presidential reelection on the Congress is amazing. loving incredible.

# ? May 30, 2015 00:21

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

PSDB voting to end presidential reelection on the Congress is amazing. loving incredible.

So they want to make running for reelection impossible?

# ? May 30, 2015 00:28

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

Crowsbeak posted:

So they want to make running for reelection impossible?

For executive positions, yes. Mayors, governors, and the president are all now one term positions.

# ? May 30, 2015 00:32

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

The possibility of Lula snatching another 8 years is real enough for them to try and put the genius back in the bottle but the sheer irony of it is perplexing considering the measures they took back on the FHC era.

# ? May 30, 2015 00:44

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

Is Lula still allowed to run in 2018 now, or did they ban that too?

# ? May 30, 2015 00:46

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

He can still run yeah, but only for a single 4 year term.

# ? May 30, 2015 00:48

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

Are there any other big PT names who could show up in 2022? Maybe Pimentel if he does okay as governor, or Haddad?

# ? May 30, 2015 00:51

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

Badger of Basra posted:

Are there any other big PT names who could show up in 2022? Maybe Pimentel if he does okay as governor, or Haddad?

Haddad is not popular even in S�o Paulo (maybe he can still change it, but it really does not looks like).

I wopuld not bet in Lula 2018 either, the anti-PT rage is getting stronger every day and Dilma's abysmal popularity can sink even him.

# ? May 30, 2015 00:56

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

Part of me wonders if they'll repeal the reelection ban if the PSDB win in 2018.

# ? May 30, 2015 00:57

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Elias_Maluco posted:

I wopuld not bet in Lula 2018 either, the anti-PT rage is getting stronger every day and Dilma's abysmal popularity can sink even him.

Ehhh barely a hundred people went on the impeachment march this Wednesday and the whole thing has been losing steam since the terceirização and the teacher's strike debacles. Unless the media manages to find (or "find") a scandal that lasts more than a few weeks, Lula could still win due to his sheer popularity.

# ? May 30, 2015 01:06

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

PT couldn't implement Full Communism and are now going for Full Sebastianism instead.

# ? May 30, 2015 01:06

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Ras Het posted:

PT couldn't implement Full Communism and are now going for Full Sebastianism instead.

One of my great-grandfathers was at Canudos so I'm ok with that.

# ? May 30, 2015 01:08

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

Ehhh barely a hundred people went on the impeachment march this Wednesday and the whole thing has been losing steam since the terceirização and the teacher's strike debacles. Unless the media manages to find (or "find") a scandal that lasts more than a few weeks, Lula could still win due to his sheer popularity.

And still I hear the "panela�os" (how could we say that in english?) everytime Dilma goes in TV and everywhere I hear people talking about how PT are all thieves and etc. The impeachment movement really lost steam, and nobody serious really believe it can happen anymore, but PETROBRAS scandal is still everyone's mind, and its been a lot more than a few weeks already. And nobody's forgot mensal�o either.

Also, there is a very probable recession coming (maybe already starting) that ought to hit the lower classes harder, as always, and it will be blamed on Dilma and PT.

At the same time, I still see no possible opposition candidate with enough nationwide popularity to face Lula, so who knows.

# ? May 30, 2015 15:38

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Speaking of recession, where can I see the inflation numbers because holy poo poo the prices have been skyrocketing lately.

# ? May 30, 2015 15:44

Magrov: Mar 27, 2010; I'm completely lost and have no idea what's going on. I'll be at my bunker.

If you need any diplomatic or mineral stuff just call me. If you plan to nuke India please give me a 5 minute warning to close the windows!

Also Iapetus sucks!

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

Speaking of recession, where can I see the inflation numbers because holy poo poo the prices have been skyrocketing lately.

this link should auto-update every month.

http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/estatistica/indicadores/precos/inpc_ipca/defaulttab.shtm

# ? May 30, 2015 15:51

Markovnikov: Nov 6, 2010

Elias_Maluco posted:

And still I hear the "panela�os" (how could we say that in english?) everytime Dilma goes in TV and everywhere I hear people talking about how PT are all thieves and etc. The impeachment movement really lost steam, and nobody serious really believe it can happen anymore, but PETROBRAS scandal is still everyone's mind, and its been a lot more than a few weeks already. And nobody's forgot mensal�o either.

Also, there is a very probable recession coming (maybe already starting) that ought to hit the lower classes harder, as always, and it will be blamed on Dilma and PT.

At the same time, I still see no possible opposition candidate with enough nationwide popularity to face Lula, so who knows.

Is that your equivalent of cacerolazos? I doubt there is a direct translation, enjoy our little socio-linguistic oddity.

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

Speaking of recession, where can I see the inflation numbers because holy poo poo the prices have been skyrocketing lately.

Continent's hosed. Was good while it lasted.

# ? May 30, 2015 19:35

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

Markovnikov posted:

Is that your equivalent of cacerolazos? I doubt there is a direct translation, enjoy our little socio-linguistic oddity.

Yep, the act of beating pots in protest.

# ? May 30, 2015 19:57

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Has there been any response to the FIFA thing? I've heard most of the Latin american countries are launching their own investigations, but are any of these guys trying to make hay out of it?

# ? May 30, 2015 20:18

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Romário (former footballer, now congressman) wants to investigate the CBF and there is a big chance this scandal might hit the Globo media empire since they were involved with some skeezy poo poo regarding WC transmission rights.

# ? May 30, 2015 20:21

Markovnikov: Nov 6, 2010

I hope all football executives everywhere get sent to jail and the barrabravas are enclosed in their stadium of choice to rot away.

Seriously I loving hate football and what it does to peoples' minds and all the shady businesses around it that people ignore because their preferred eleven random dudes are kicking a ball. This FIFA thing is the best thing to happen since last year when Argentina lost the final of the world cup and people started rioting in downtown Buenos Aires. Honorable mention to River's players getting pepper sprayed by Boca fans not a month ago midways through a match, and Boca only getting a slap on the wrist for it. So much schadenfreude, so little time.

# ? May 30, 2015 21:57

nerdz: Oct 12, 2004; Complex, statistically improbable things are by their nature more difficult to explain than simple, statistically probable things.; Grimey Drawer

I loving love Veja's covers whenever someone close to them is caught in corruption schemes.

"The arrest of soccer officials on Switzerland is the beginning of a new era of transparence that could make soccer be again a source of joy to the people"

You see, them being caught for corruption in this case is good because it only means they will clean up the organization!

Imagine them using the same narrative about PT arresting and removing it's own top officials from its party.

# ? Jun 2, 2015 18:59

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

nerdz posted:

I loving love Veja's covers whenever someone close to them is caught in corruption schemes.

"The arrest of soccer officials on Switzerland is the beginning of a new era of transparence that could make soccer be again a source of joy to the people"

You see, them being caught for corruption in this case is good because it only means they will clean up the organization!

Imagine them using the same narrative about PT arresting and removing it's own top officials from its party.

DILMA E LULA J� SABIAM

# ? Jun 3, 2015 02:15

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

�poca (the Globo mag) made it a side note on the cover while all the other mags made it the main story lmfao.

# ? Jun 3, 2015 02:17

Polidoro: Jan 5, 2011; Huevo se dice argidia. Argidia!

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

�poca (the Globo mag) made it a side note on the cover while all the other mags made it the main story lmfao.

Does Globo own (or is owned by) Traffic/FullPlay?

# ? Jun 3, 2015 02:59

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Polidoro posted:

Does Globo own (or is owned by) Traffic/FullPlay?

J. Hawilla was their sports director in S�o Paulo for a few years and owns 50% of the broadcasting antennas that do transmit Globo channels to the same state.

E: Haha Zico is considering running for FIFA.

# ? Jun 3, 2015 03:06

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

Badger of Basra posted:

DILMA E LULA J� SABIAM

Of course that Marin supporting Aecio because Dilma had tried to get rid of him is never mentioned anywhere.

# ? Jun 3, 2015 07:31

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOSZu40swU8

# ? Jun 6, 2015 17:59

papasyhotcakes: Oct 18, 2008

In good Mexican news, an independant candidate has won a governorship for the first time in the country's history.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-08/mexico-s-bronco-seen-winning-in-nuevo-leon-as-pri-leads-house

Even though the article does emphasize that the traditional groups still control the rest of the political system, I do find it uplifting that people seem to be fed up with the old parties and their numerous demonstrations of massive corruption.

# ? Jun 8, 2015 08:47

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

papasyhotcakes posted:

In good Mexican news, an independant candidate has won a governorship for the first time in the country's history.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-08/mexico-s-bronco-seen-winning-in-nuevo-leon-as-pri-leads-house

Even though the article does emphasize that the traditional groups still control the rest of the political system, I do find it uplifting that people seem to be fed up with the old parties and their numerous demonstrations of massive corruption.

He'll be found on some dude's ranch ditch in a month. Media kills.

# ? Jun 8, 2015 13:53

Talas: Aug 27, 2005

Nonsense posted:

He'll be found on some dude's ranch ditch in a month. Media kills.

He actually was the target of a couple of shootouts while he was mayor �\_(ツ)_/�

# ? Jun 9, 2015 03:02

Boner Slam: May 9, 2005

Re: Cuban Healthcare

Here's an imgur (terrible I know) meme Q&A... thing... apparently by a Cuban doctor ?
https://imgur.com/gallery/Uv3jy

Boner Slam fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jun 9, 2015

# ? Jun 9, 2015 16:38

Azran: Sep 3, 2012; And what should one do to be remembered?

Boner Slam posted:

Re: Cuban Healthcare

Here's an imgur (terrible I know) meme Q&A... thing... apparently by a Cuban doctor ?
https://imgur.com/gallery/Uv3jy

This is supposedly the sources for these.

http://imgur.com/gallery/1c5FPrq/new

# ? Jun 9, 2015 17:34

Boner Slam: May 9, 2005

yeah seems fishy

# ? Jun 9, 2015 20:45

Magrov: Mar 27, 2010; I'm completely lost and have no idea what's going on. I'll be at my bunker.

If you need any diplomatic or mineral stuff just call me. If you plan to nuke India please give me a 5 minute warning to close the windows!

Also Iapetus sucks!

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOSZu40swU8

Here's a good CQC news report about this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6jHRZFT69Y

# ? Jun 10, 2015 21:32

rolosaavedra: Aug 15, 2014

Boner Slam posted:

yeah seems fishy

Kind of an understatement. That stuff is full-on slander.
I mean, I have no doubt that life in Cuba is far from ideal and there's a lot of political repression, but that Cuban Doctor poo poo is meant to shock and disgust using distorted and downright false information.
There's a refutation someone posted in the comments:

http://imgur.com/gallery/WPk99uB

On a side-note, how do you guys feel about all the chinese capital and people flowing into South and Central America?
Back in Chile, I remember being pretty baffled by the sudden appearance of an entire chinese-staffed mall a block away from Estacion Central in Santiago.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 18:30

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# ? May 18, 2024 20:13

Future Days: Oct 25, 2013; The Taurus didn't offer much for drivers craving the sport sedan experience. That changed with the 1989 debut of the Ford Taurus SHO (for Super High Output), a Q-ship of the finest order that offered up a high-revving Yamaha-designed V-6 engine and a tight sport suspension.

On tonight's episode of 'Latin Americans can't have nice things':

My province's elections IRL, right now

(Santa Fe, Argentina)

# ? Jun 15, 2015 02:30

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Latin America: the fires immediately died down, because they needed socialism to burn

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