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Jarmak posted:Hey guys, how dare you illustrate how dumbass my comments are, I mean I edited in a disclaimer that they weren't really important Yeah, you got me. What I really care about is reforming dead cop funerals and making sure there are no bayonets. You saw straight through my deception about bayonets being an insignificant, though absurd thing for police to have and really only worthy of a comical remark. Unnecessary killings, unwarranted abuse, corruption, racism and the like were all a smokescreen. drat, you're good, detective.
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May 30, 2015 18:26
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Replace rifle with an M249 LMG and literally the exact thing would have happened. Focus on the actual problems, not scary looking things.
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May 30, 2015 19:04
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Naturally Selected posted:Failing to find any massive studies with a quick google search (I suck at finding poo poo like that, and most of what I found have sample sizes of sub-1000), but maybe someone with better access/skills can find something-but I can just about guarantee that if you look at other emergency response professions you'll find the same increased prevalence of alcohol/drug abuse, violence, divorce, etc. PTSD and related poo poo kind of comes with the territory of working in emergency services. it's not nearly this complicated. Cops are disproportionately young men, and young men take up more than their fair share of those things
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May 30, 2015 19:15
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sugar free jazz posted:Replace rifle with an M249 LMG and literally the exact thing would have happened. Focus on the actual problems, not scary looking things.
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May 30, 2015 19:23
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Samurai Sanders posted:I've been hearing this for a bit in this thread but how is the police looking scary not part of the problem? See if you dare mention the fact that he had a rifle in his hands, which prevented him from taking any other action but shooting his victim, well you're being hysterical and really should only care if the officer had mental health training, rather than if they entered the apartment ready to kill and do nothing else.
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May 30, 2015 19:25
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hobotrashcanfires posted:Yeah, you got me. What I really care about is reforming dead cop funerals and making sure there are no bayonets. You saw straight through my deception about bayonets being an insignificant, though absurd thing for police to have and really only worthy of a comical remark. Unnecessary killings, unwarranted abuse, corruption, racism and the like were all a smokescreen. Yeah except its not absurd and you don't know what you're talking about, that's the point. The "commenting on my off topic comments is off topic" mode of indignation is somewhat amusing though.
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May 30, 2015 19:28
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Why do cops even have tasers, mace, nightsticks, etc if they just always use a gun first if the suspect is black? We could save taxpayer money by not buying the other stuff.
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May 30, 2015 19:47
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Jarmak posted:Yeah except its not absurd and you don't know what you're talking about, that's the point. Okay, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Please enlighten me how bayonets are both necessary and appropriate. I think it is absurd for police to ever have bayonets, because they should never use them and I don't think they really ever would. So, as I've said, it's really not a big issue at all and completely tangential to serious discussion of militarization or reform. All you're doing is jumping on a very insignificant comment I made, completely ignored my "disclaimer", so you can pretend I ever implied "firing parties and fixed blade knives are police militarization problems that require reform?". By all means, explain in detail just how wrong I am to think that bayonets are an absurd weapon for police to ever have. If it makes you feel better to think I'm indignant or upset about any of this brief back and forth, go ahead I guess.
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May 30, 2015 20:02
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effectual posted:Why do cops even have tasers, mace, nightsticks, etc if they just always use a gun first if the suspect is black? We could save taxpayer money by not buying the other stuff. They need them to beat up the white college protestors, remember?
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May 30, 2015 20:05
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sugar free jazz posted:Replace rifle with an M249 LMG and literally the exact thing would have happened. Focus on the actual problems, not scary looking things. Replace the rifle with a cod and the outcome would be quite different. One of the issues with policing is that the police are so drat heavily armed in the first place.
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May 30, 2015 20:13
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Pohl posted:What in the loving hell. Guy in Nevada shoots two squaters in their bed at a property he owns. He walks, on all counts.
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May 30, 2015 20:49
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Gang members admit they only steal from outside their posse. http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/video-officers-admit-they-will-not-ticket-fellow-cops-they-only-collect-revenue-non quote:Officers Admit They Will Not Ticket Fellow Cops, They Only Collect Revenue From Non-Cops
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May 31, 2015 00:17
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FRINGE posted:Gang members admit they only steal from outside their posse. I like how the part of the article you cut is the part that explains that he was angry because a JSO deputy wouldn't ticket a JSO vehicle parked in front of the JSO jail. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 01:22 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 01:20
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Rent-A-Cop posted:This guy is a moron. Yeah, it isn't like these are personal vehicles. Spirit of the law, etc. If they were personal vehicles, it would be more troublesome.
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May 31, 2015 01:29
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Does anyone think that officer discretion would be used so favorably for a "civilian"? I'm pretty sure every poster here (from the US) has heard: "I sure am sorry but I 'have no choice' but to give you this ticket". We have all also seen cops stopping people on the way to the hospital, as well as the videos where ambulance drivers have been pulled over and threatened for "disrespect" while on the way to or from a medical emergency. The problem cited by that article is minor insofar as the physical example he produced, but is still indicative of the gang-mentality the cops are using when applying their authority to take money. The mentality is on display, not the excuse given.
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May 31, 2015 01:39
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Rent-A-Cop posted:This guy is a moron. quote:The officer tries to debate that they’re technically marked, but then admits that no, they are not marked patrol vehicles. "The law is the law." Except when its not. Thats the point.
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May 31, 2015 01:41
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So the city should fine itself?
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May 31, 2015 01:45
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FRINGE posted:"The law is the law." Its the same reason you don't get stopped for driving 67 in a 65.* No one really cares. There are absolutely examples of cops letting other cops go for poo poo when they wouldn't let others. This isn't the example you want to focus on. *Offer void in Ohio.
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May 31, 2015 01:47
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In a lot of places a county deputy can't issue a ticket to a vehicle that comes back as county owned. And why the gently caress would they?
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May 31, 2015 01:48
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nm posted:Its the same reason you don't get stopped for driving 67 in a 65.* No one really cares. There are absolutely examples of cops letting other cops go for poo poo when they wouldn't let others. This isn't the example you want to focus on. hobbesmaster posted:So the city should fine itself? The cops who are parking illegally should pay the fine like anyone else. They should get used to obeying the laws they participate in enforcing.
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May 31, 2015 01:54
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FRINGE posted:*Also CA. At least it has happened to me. Were you black in Irvine or something? FRINGE posted:The cops should not be off-handed with obeying the laws that they use to extract money from "normal" citizens. Again the problem is the mentality not the specific act. Just like they should not let each other slide for drunk driving, assault, or murder. nm fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 01:57
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Parking fines go to the owner of the vehicle not the driver. So no the cops wouldn't pay and the county isn't going to fine itself for a county parking violation.
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May 31, 2015 01:58
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nm posted:Were you black in Irvine or something?
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May 31, 2015 01:58
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wth? - Double post.
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May 31, 2015 02:17
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Dead Reckoning posted:Juries and the law both tend to give a lot of leeway to the property owner in confrontations with trespassers, so I can't say I'm surprised, especially since the defendant was apparently smart enough to shut up and not make any incriminating statements. Wow, you've discovered the problem. You get a gold star!
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May 31, 2015 03:50
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FRINGE posted:Does anyone think that officer discretion would be used so favorably for a "civilian"? This has changed a lot over the past 20 years. As a white guy, I used to be able to get away with anything. The cops always just lectured me and then sent me home. I'm not sure exactly when it changed, but it is not the same anymore (and hasn't been for a long time). For reference, I graduated High School in 1991. Pohl fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 03:56
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Rent-A-Cop posted:This guy is a moron. It took me three seconds on Google to find JSO and all other official law enforcement vehicles in the city/county are exempt from the parking ordinances while on official business. Also, the whole being parked at their own building thing. The "Couldn't write it a ticket if I wanted to" Blue wall of silence!  .
Untagged fucked around with this message at 06:58 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 06:54
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So maybe police are just confused ended up thinking this sort of situation extends to all cop actions being automatically legal no matter what, instead of just parking stuff?
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May 31, 2015 07:23
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Pohl posted:What are you a pussy? Fix your own drat bike. I live on a college campus, I don't have the right tools nor do I have the money to buy them. It sorta sucks. I eventually got it fixed, it was just a frustrating experience. In thread-related news, at the last anti-police protests in Olympia related to the shooting of two unarmed black men a few weeks ago, some Stormfront members showed up and have done so on several other occasions to "support the police" and white supremacy in general. Tonight there's a big anti-Nazi protest going on that is apparently heating up, rocks being thrown at passing cars and such. It'll be interesting to see how much more the protests get co-opted by white college students to be about something different.
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May 31, 2015 08:56
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:I live on a college campus, I don't have the right tools nor do I have the money to buy them. It sorta sucks. I eventually got it fixed, it was just a frustrating experience. This thread is now about bike repair. All you need is a socket set (better yet some wrenches) and a screwdriver (Philips) for the basic work. Sure, the spokes, etc need some specialized tools but bike repair is easy fun. And dirty. If you already knows this stuff I'm sorry. Ok, horrible thread is back on.
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May 31, 2015 09:10
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All you really need is a set of allen keys and a wrench or two. Get yourself a chain with a master link while you're at it.
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May 31, 2015 10:42
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Agrajag posted:All you really need is a set of allen keys and a wrench or two. Get yourself a chain with a master link while you're at it. drat, I forgot the allen wrenches. Screwdrivers are important for tuning up the gears. (Don't ever do this, it never ends well). Do it!!!!! It sucks but you can do it.
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May 31, 2015 11:11
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Pohl posted:Wow, you've discovered the problem. You get a gold star! The problem is that once again you're shocked and appalled by a case without having any realistic, worthwhile suggestions about how the law should be different. Personally, I'm fine with the law giving property owners the benefit of the doubt when confronting tresspassers.
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May 31, 2015 22:21
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Dead Reckoning posted:The problem is that once again you're shocked and appalled by a case without having any realistic, worthwhile suggestions about how the law should be different. Personally, I'm fine with the law giving property owners the benefit of the doubt when confronting tresspassers. To what degree? Do you think anyone killed by a landowner on their property without permission is a good kill? That is, as soon as you violate the rights of anyone's property does your right to life end? Or only if the landowner wants to do so? Do you think the landowner who purposely left a door unlocked to catch trespassers and shoot them was lawful?
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May 31, 2015 22:25
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Story via "a Libertarian security professional, journalist, photographer and overall liberty freak." Whatever that is. Link is NSFW. http://truthvoice.com/2015/05/palm-beach-sheriff-had-hooker-cocaine-delivered-to-private-golf-course-party/ quote:Palm Beach Sheriff Had Hooker, Cocaine Delivered to Private Golf Course Party quote:
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May 31, 2015 23:47
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Trabisnikof posted:To what degree? Do you think anyone killed by a landowner on their property without permission is a good kill? That is, as soon as you violate the rights of anyone's property does your right to life end? Or only if the landowner wants to do so? I'm not familiar with the specific front door case you're talking about, but I don't think leaving your door unlocked, even if you know there are criminals about, should invalidate your right to defend yourself from people entering your home.
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Jun 1, 2015 00:58
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Dead Reckoning posted:I guess you didn't read the part where I said "benefit of the doubt," which is slightly different from "unlimited license to kill." If someone is unlawfully on another person's property, and the property owner uses force to defend themselves because they claim they felt threatened, I feel that the burden of proof should be on the state to prove that the property owner acted unlawfully, rather than on the property owner to prove that they did not. Especially if the property in question is some kind of standing structure or enclosed area rather than a lawn or open field bisected by a dirt road. Sure, if the investigation finds the property owner's Son of Sam journal detailing his plan to kill the person, that's solid proof of premeditation. He's likely referring to the Byron Smith killings from 2012, where the perpetrator went out of his way to make his place look abandoned thus to lure trespassers in, all while waiting in the basement with a mini-14 which he emptied into two teenagers who did brake in, subsequently finishing them off with, "a good, clean finishing shot."
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Jun 1, 2015 01:09
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Don't argue with Dead Reckoning, he only likes appeals to authority no matter how absurd it is as long as it is technically correct. There is self defence, but that isn't considered self defence outside of America. Your laws might as well be "Kill them all and let God sort it out".
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Jun 1, 2015 01:19
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oohhboy posted:Don't argue with Dead Reckoning, he only likes appeals to authority no matter how absurd it is as long as it is technically correct. That's not true, many European countries have self defense laws that exonerate you if you have a reasonable fear for your life-- both France and Germany have these sorts of laws. I mean unless you actually know the specifics of the case I'm not sure how you can be so certain they proved beyond a reasonable doubt he had no reason to fear for his life.
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Jun 1, 2015 02:24
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Dead Reckoning posted:I guess you didn't read the part where I said "benefit of the doubt," which is slightly different from "unlimited license to kill." If someone is unlawfully on another person's property, and the property owner uses force to defend themselves because they claim they felt threatened, I feel that the burden of proof should be on the state to prove that the property owner acted unlawfully, rather than on the property owner to prove that they did not. Especially if the property in question is some kind of standing structure or enclosed area rather than a lawn or open field bisected by a dirt road. Sure, if the investigation finds the property owner's Son of Sam journal detailing his plan to kill the person, that's solid proof of premeditation. Man, murderers don't have to be very cunning to have murder houses in your line of reasoning.
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Jun 1, 2015 02:27
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