goattrails posted:

I've dogfighted a lot in SC. Its a game.
Not a MMO yet, but a game.

MoraleHazard posted:

As an average line member, I thought it was a fun event with the added bonus of Boat's character being in MOA for the loss, which had me giggling privately even today.

Eonwe posted:

Reverand maynard posted:

Alright, I'll bite.

EG does things things that are literally impossible at an alliance level because some goonswarm line members are loving useless. Our doctrines are limited by our player ability and we have never had any sort of culture that promoted competency at a line member level. You will never get kicked for being bad at eve and so everything that gets done, from harpy fleets to tengus to loving supers is restricted by the lowest common denominator, which happens to be really loving low. EG and reavers are the only groups that are tight knit, selective enough, AND have enough members which enables them to form actual fleets with complex doctrines.

The biggest problem really is that mainfleet by and large sucks dick, and people telling you to join sigs or squads to have fun doesn't really solve that problem. If I see a all-all ping go out, I have no way of knowing if the FC is pants on head retarded or not (other than prior experience) because there really isn't any mechanism to prevent criminally stupid people that think untanked algos are a good idea to fight worms with. And even if the FC is good, any wonderful idea he has is again limited by the competency of his members. If I see a reavers broadcast however, I know its going to either be led by asher or the FC will have his seal of approval so I don't have to join with trepidation wondering if the FC has any idea how probing works.

Look at the revenant kill thing. I wasn't there but I'm going to assume EG was fairly outnumbered but were stomping dicks because it was fleets led by oxygen composed largely of karmafleet retards and only half the people were in the right ships. You can't really just say GET GOOD FAGGOTS when its impossible to do so without drastically changing the alliance.

There is also this idea that people become too good to on on mainfleet ops because of these reasons. Instead of making fleets better by filling crucial roles in fleets to support the FC such as scout, being logi anchor, or otherwise taking any sort of initiative during fleets, its just much easier to join EG, reavers, hole squad or any other group that is selective because god drat sometimes you just get tired of no one else giving a poo poo. There is an alliance wide brain drain where good pilots leave mainfleet behind so they can fly in groups where they know the other pilots don't all suck. You can only go on so many bad fleets led by incompetent retards before you say gently caress it and stop showing up and go elsewhere for fun

Is it annoying that EG gets toys like nightmare doctrines? Kind of, but I mean our alliance isn't good enough to use ishtars for fucks sake. The only real way to fix this is by doing alliance level deployments like the one that laz did a few months ago, and just fighting a lot of other dudes alongside the same pilots every day but I think the leadership is fine with the GET GOOD niche being filled by EG and reavers.

Reverand maynard posted:

Alright, I'll bite.

EG does things things that are literally impossible at an alliance level because some goonswarm line members are loving useless. Our doctrines are limited by our player ability and we have never had any sort of culture that promoted competency at a line member level. You will never get kicked for being bad at eve and so everything that gets done, from harpy fleets to tengus to loving supers is restricted by the lowest common denominator, which happens to be really loving low. EG and reavers are the only groups that are tight knit enough, selective enough, AND have enough members which enables them to form actual fleets with complex doctrines.

The biggest problem really is that mainfleet by and large sucks dick, and people telling you to join sigs or squads to have fun doesn't really solve that problem. If I see a all-all ping go out, I have no way of knowing if the FC is pants on head retarded or not (other than prior experience) because there really isn't any mechanism to prevent criminally stupid people that think untanked algos are a good idea to fight worms with. And even if the FC is good, any wonderful idea he has is again limited by the competency of his members. If I see a reavers broadcast however, I know its going to either be led by asher or the FC will have his seal of approval and I know that at the very least the other members in the fleet are there to kill poo poo. Groups like this also develop a cadre of people that help out the FC. A huge advantage of reavers is Asher knows the people that are supporting him. His scouts, his logi anchor are going to be people he has flown with before over and over again and he doens't need to micromanage them and can simply do his thing.

Look at the revenant kill thing. I wasn't there but I'm going to assume EG was fairly outnumbered but were stomping dicks because it was fleets led by oxygen composed largely of karmafleet retards and only half the people were in the right ships. You can't really just say GET GOOD FAGGOTS when its impossible to do so without drastically changing the alliance.

There is also this idea that people become too good to on on mainfleet ops because of these reasons. Instead of making fleets better by filling crucial roles in fleets to support the FC such as scout, being logi anchor, or otherwise taking any sort of initiative to help the FC during fleets, its just much easier to join EG, reavers, hole squad or any other group that is selective because god drat sometimes you just get tired of no one else giving a poo poo. As a result, there is an alliance wide brain drain where good pilots leave mainfleet behind so they can fly with like minded pilots.

Is it annoying that EG gets toys like nightmare doctrines? Kind of, but I mean our alliance isn't good enough to use ishtars for fucks sake. The only real way to fix this is by doing alliance level deployments like the one that laz did a few months ago, and just fighting a lot of other dudes alongside the same pilots every day but I think the leadership is fine with the GET GOOD niche being filled by EG and reavers.

various cheeses posted:

Anything that ruins MOA's day is just the best.

Reverand maynard posted:

Alright, I'll bite.

EG does things things that are literally impossible at an alliance level because some goonswarm line members are loving useless. Our doctrines are limited by our player ability and we have never had any sort of culture that promoted competency at a line member level. You will never get kicked for being bad at eve and so everything that gets done, from harpy fleets to tengus to loving supers is restricted by the lowest common denominator, which happens to be really loving low. EG and reavers are the only groups that are tight knit enough, selective enough, AND have enough members which enables them to form actual fleets with complex doctrines.

The biggest problem really is that mainfleet by and large sucks dick, and people telling you to join sigs or squads to have fun doesn't really solve that problem. If I see a all-all ping go out, I have no way of knowing if the FC is pants on head retarded or not (other than prior experience) because there really isn't any mechanism to prevent criminally stupid people that think untanked algos are a good idea to fight worms with. And even if the FC is good, any wonderful idea he has is again limited by the competency of his members. If I see a reavers broadcast however, I know its going to either be led by asher or the FC will have his seal of approval and I know that at the very least the other members in the fleet are there to kill poo poo. Groups like this also develop a cadre of people that help out the FC. A huge advantage of reavers is Asher knows the people that are supporting him. His scouts, his logi anchor are going to be people he has flown with before over and over again and he doens't need to micromanage them and can simply do his thing.

Look at the revenant kill thing. I wasn't there but I'm going to assume EG was fairly outnumbered but were stomping dicks because it was fleets led by oxygen composed largely of karmafleet retards and only half the people were in the right ships. You can't really just say GET GOOD FAGGOTS when its impossible to do so without drastically changing the alliance.

There is also this idea that people become too good to on on mainfleet ops because of these reasons. Instead of making fleets better by filling crucial roles in fleets to support the FC such as scout, being logi anchor, or otherwise taking any sort of initiative to help the FC during fleets, its just much easier to join EG, reavers, hole squad or any other group that is selective because god drat sometimes you just get tired of no one else giving a poo poo. As a result, there is an alliance wide brain drain where good pilots leave mainfleet behind so they can fly with like minded pilots.

Is it annoying that EG gets toys like nightmare doctrines? Kind of, but I mean our alliance isn't good enough to use ishtars for fucks sake. The only real way to fix this is by doing alliance level deployments like the one that laz did a few months ago, and just fighting a lot of other dudes alongside the same pilots every day but I think the leadership is fine with the GET GOOD niche being filled by EG and reavers.

Klyith posted:

Losing isn't fun anymore.

Pookum posted:

Quit gettin' mad at video games

CashEnsign posted:

Logo needs a hard cap, only x amount of reps before stacking penalties make them worthless.

Zephyrine posted:

Delete logi ships, skills and remote repairs all together. Refund SP and make all tanks buffer or local rep.

If 50 guys face 100 guys then the larger fleet will leave the field short 30 or so ships instead of fights being win all versus lose all.

Numismancer posted:

No more discussion of "who did something to offend some kind of sensibility at a Vile Rat memorial op". The idea that people who did not know VR are offering views on what he would or would not enjoy in a blueshoot thunderdome and what is appropriate or not under the circumstances of such an op sends me into an unthinking rage.

The absolute last thing that is wise in GSF is to try to talk about VR this or VR that if you didn't know the guy, or incorporate that into some kind of petty intra-squad drama which is, in reality, not between squads, but between individuals and then extrapolated unfairly to whole groups on both sides. Normal human psych bullshit and unavoidable there, 'one guy mouthing off' becomes 'mainfleet', etc.

I'm posting this 24 hours+ after the flareup so the red mist has cleared a bit from my eyes and I won't randomly execute motherfuckers. I'll glance at the bullshit drama in about four days and expect shoegazing and foot-shuffling from anyone dumb enough to have done the above. It should be obvious as gently caress to anyone with half a brain stem the danger of touching the ~third rail~ of bringing up VR in the context of bullshit like this in alliance run by a guy still mourning the murder of one of his best friends.

Klyith posted:

After the drama of the last couple pages, MOA has ended up looking like the most chill guys in all of this actually. :/




The unhappy result of EG's fleet comp does reinforce a thing I've been banging on about for the last couple years, which is that logi is killing eve. The winners have all the fun because they're owning everything and can't die, they've got god-mode on in a pvp game without cheating. The losers have very little fun because they can't even make a dent in the other guy, they have to run away or just lose all their ships. Even at a NPSI "just for fun" event.

This pattern is why people have gotten super risk-adverse even in lowsec T1 frigates, and why 2/3rds of nullsec are members of the imperium. Losing isn't fun anymore.

CashEnsign posted:

Is this Martin?

Nostalgia4Murder posted:

This is why I live in syndicate. 99% of our coalition is loving retarded and need the fc to fly their ships for them.

Reverand maynard posted:

hole squad

Reverand maynard posted:

selective

grumplestiltzkin posted:

lol

grumplestiltzkin posted:

lol

grumplestiltzkin posted:

lol

scandoslav posted:

He's right about the effort bar, though. Loss of SRP is another consideration.

vyst posted:

Everyone just empty quote my post for Eg.Txt. Drama free and informational. Now you can go back to your regularly scheduled poo poo posting

vyst posted:

Everyone just empty quote my post for Eg.Txt. Drama free and informational. Now you can go back to your regularly scheduled poo poo posting

scandoslav posted:

What I'm saying is we're road warrior madmax viking spartan 300 toughmans because of natural selection, not any of these ~artificial~ vouches.

orange juche posted:

(except for karmafleet, they need 2 vouches for some reason or another)

orange juche posted:

and if they don't like it they slowly just disappear, and hole squad just keeps on that real poo poo.