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GhostofJohnMuir posted:JeffersonClay, what do you do for a living? I'm curious. At this time he is obviously a poster extraordinaire but I am certain his resume is open to any university level economic departments needing a new department head.
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Jun 2, 2015 05:37
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paragon1 posted:you're really banking on getting people mad at PTD so they'll stop making fun of you now, huh? Yes, anyone who calls out an anti-gay slur must really be self-interested. Have I heard you on AM talk radio?
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Jun 2, 2015 05:38
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, anyone who calls out an anti-gay slur must really be self-interested. can you make a chart for me? im confused again
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Jun 2, 2015 05:41
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, anyone who calls out an anti-gay slur must really be self-interested. Have I heard you on AM talk radio? JeffersonClay, how you do you make your money?
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Jun 2, 2015 05:45
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down with slavery posted:can you make a chart for me? im confused again What does that have to do with popular thug drink's weird homophobia?
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Jun 2, 2015 05:49
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JeffersonClay posted:What does that have to do with popular thug drink's weird homophobia? what does that have to do with the minimum wage
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Jun 2, 2015 05:51
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JeffersonClay posted:What does that have to do with popular thug drink's weird homophobia? Please let it be this post lord.
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Jun 2, 2015 05:54
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:JeffersonClay, how you do you make your money? he lives on skid row, remember, maybe he's homeless
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Jun 2, 2015 05:54
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i hate gay people, in a really major way. which is ironic, because i myself am exceedingly gay. or, it would be ironic, if it weren't hypocritical, and sad. this is why i make bad posts, the burning homosexuality that sluggishly tears away at my shrivelled little gayboy heart
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Jun 2, 2015 05:56
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JeffersonClay posted:You're confusing data and numbers. I gave you the rationale for the shape of the curve. Nope not confused, I'm saying you can't support your argument with data. Bear in mind Laffer still can't and that dude has a PhD from stanford, I'm guessing your resume isn't as good
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Jun 2, 2015 05:56
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increasing the min wage to $20/hr or more is proven by science to be extremely good for the poor
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Jun 2, 2015 05:57
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Popular Thug Drink posted:increasing the min wage to $20/hr or more is proven by science to be extremely good for the poor If you don't represent this as a graph I can't take you seriously
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Jun 2, 2015 05:59
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JeffersonClay posted:Yes, anyone who calls out an anti-gay slur must really be self-interested. Have I heard you on AM talk radio? so I see we've moved on to abandoning your argument entirely to focus on attacking the credibility of anyone who disagrees with you
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Jun 2, 2015 06:00
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LorrdErnie posted:If you don't represent this as a graph I can't take you seriously Here, let me demonstrate for you. 
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Jun 2, 2015 06:07
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Thank you that's much clearer now. Can't argue with that!
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Jun 2, 2015 06:09
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Has the Reagan graph been posted yet?
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Jun 2, 2015 06:09
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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JeffersonClay, what is your oppinion on watermelons? edit: please answer in graph form
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Jun 2, 2015 06:19
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JeffersonClay posted:This is, in itself, a very bold statement. I personally don't think we should disregard the impacts of a policy on the poorest, even if it did make some less-poor people not poor at all. I tend to think the most vulnerable people in society deserve special consideration when crafting policy Minimum wage is intended to provide a living wage, if it is unable to do that can you explain why it should exist at all? JeffersonClay posted:but I'm a liberal and I guess you're not? I don't have a team, and even if I did you trying to call me out is weird and stupid. JeffersonClay posted:This is really confusing. What do you mean by maximal point? I've been told repeatedly that this thread has no people who think the minimum wage can go upwards, indefinitely, without causing negative consequences. That's exactly what the graph shows. The point which maximizes benefits for the poor has nothing to do with what we define a living wage as. Sorry, I'm trying to explain my point of view using your graph. I believe that the minimum wage is intended to prevent workers from being exploited, to ensure all workers are paid a living wage. The maximal point in my graph would be the point at which the working poor can provide for themselves without additional assistance. It does not matter what that wage is, if a living wage is $15billion/s it seems to me that we need to do that. Though I suspect, because of the examples set by other countries, that a living wage is possible without having to sacrifice the quality of life for anyone. You haven't answered why you think the minimum wage has to solve the problem of ensuring the non-working poor don't experience the ravages of inflation.
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Jun 2, 2015 06:57
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ElCondemn posted:Minimum wage is intended to provide a living wage, if it is unable to do that can you explain why it should exist at all? If it's actually good it will be bad because reasons
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Jun 2, 2015 07:41
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Like they always say, good is the enemy of perfect.
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Jun 2, 2015 07:52
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JeffersonClay posted:The concepts I'm describing aren't just theoretical, they're measurable. Not with your doodle they aren't.
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Jun 2, 2015 12:46
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As I sit alone I contemplate, everyone Why are they assholes?
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Jun 2, 2015 14:11
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Zeitgueist posted:Nope not confused, I'm saying you can't support your argument with data. Laffer also made a graph therefore all graphs are bad? i gave you the data which informed the graph. You couldn't argue with it. Now you've chosen to take a tragically hilarious stand on the easily dismissed argument that data must be numbers. You are wrong. paragon1 posted:Here, let me demonstrate for you. So we've found another elusive poster who thinks the minimum wage can increase without bound. They told me you were extinct! ElCondemn posted:Minimum wage is intended to provide a living wage, if it is unable to do that can you explain why it should exist at all? quote:I don't have a team, and even if I did you trying to call me out is weird and stupid. quote:Sorry, I'm trying to explain my point of view using your graph. I believe that the minimum wage is intended to prevent workers from being exploited, to ensure all workers are paid a living wage. The maximal point in my graph would be the point at which the working poor can provide for themselves without additional assistance. It does not matter what that wage is, if a living wage is $15billion/s it seems to me that we need to do that. I wonder how many posters here agree with you, but lack the courage to post something so manifestly crazy. The minimum wage isn't some panacea switch we can flip on to fix poverty. It doesn't work like that. quote:You haven't answered why you think the minimum wage has to solve the problem of ensuring the non-working poor don't experience the ravages of inflation.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:35
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JeffersonClay posted:So we've found another elusive poster who thinks the minimum wage can increase without bound. They told me you were extinct!
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Jun 2, 2015 15:39
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:You can't be real. His 'graph' was an extremely strong play at TT's title.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:40
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Just for reference the Laffer curve isn't wrong. It's just illegitimate to imply that existing tax rates are anywhere near the downward slope. It's really really easy to say "yep the laffer curve is a thing but we're not close to the down part" and leave it at that. The graph here represent about 3 pretty uncontroversial peices of information. I personally find the reaction to it to be amusing. Are people here so easily persuaded by graphs themselves that they find this one threatening? Are they uncomfortable seeing arguments they made or agreed to in one place visually? I really have no idea.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:44
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asdf32 posted:Just for reference the Laffer curve isn't wrong. It's just illegitimate to imply that existing tax rates are anywhere near the downward slope. It's really really easy to say "yep the laffer curve is a thing but we're not close to the down part" and leave it at that. It's less of a graph and more "I made poo poo it up and drew a picture". I'd like to see actual studies supporting your claim TIA.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:47
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paragon1 posted:Here, let me demonstrate for you. I love this so much.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:47
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It was a graph of nothing that was new and presented as though it was some sort of argument winning trump despite having no real evidence or data behind it. JeffersonClay posted:So we've found another elusive poster who thinks the minimum wage can increase without bound. They told me you were extinct! Sorry you can't prove his graph doesn't curve back down later. His graph actually represents the first 1-15 cents increase in the minimum wage.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:50
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So this forum has now sunk to making homophobic remarks when they can't actually debate the topic at hand.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:52
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Nevvy Z posted:it was some sort of argument winning trump despite having no real evidence or data behind it. Sorry the graph clearly shows that utility to the poor increases exponentially with an increase in the minimum wage.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:52
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euphronius posted:Sorry the graph clearly shows that utility to the poor increases exponentially with an increase in the minimum wage. Oh no that quote was about JClay's graph sorry. I love the other one too.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:53
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I mean it's kinda amazing in 500 pages nobody's actually come up with a justification for 15/hr. Just a bunch of handwaving and calling people gay for disagreeing.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:53
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tsa posted:I mean it's kinda amazing in 500 pages nobody's actually come up with a justification for 15/hr. Just a bunch of handwaving and calling people gay for disagreeing. So you didn't actually read the thread then. Good to know.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:54
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tsa posted:I mean it's kinda amazing in 500 pages nobody's actually come up with a justification for 15/hr "People should be able to survive on minimum wage"
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Jun 2, 2015 15:56
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tsa posted:I mean it's kinda amazing in 500 pages nobody's actually come up with a justification for 15/hr. Just a bunch of handwaving and calling people gay for disagreeing. You a straight boi, tsa?
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Jun 2, 2015 16:00
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JeffersonClay posted:Laffer also made a graph therefore all graphs are bad? No, just the scaleless, unitless graphs with completely arbitrary and made up shapes, like the graph that Laffer made, are bad. Your picture is bad for all of the same reasons JeffersonClay posted:So we've found another elusive poster who thinks the minimum wage can increase without bound. They told me you were extinct! There's clearly a bound to that graph, look at the scalebar dipshit asdf32 posted:I personally find the reaction to it to be amusing. Are people here so easily persuaded by graphs themselves that they find this one threatening? Are they uncomfortable seeing arguments they made or agreed to in one place visually? I really have no idea. It's good that you find amusement amusing (I know that you've had trouble reading emotions from internet posts in the past, but none of the reactions have been based on anger, fear, or discomfort, trust me on this)
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Jun 2, 2015 16:04
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tsa posted:I mean it's kinda amazing in 500 pages nobody's actually come up with a justification for 15/hr. Just a bunch of handwaving and calling people gay for disagreeing. People who work should be given a living wage Boom, justified
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Jun 2, 2015 16:04
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JeffersonClay posted:So we've found another elusive poster who thinks the minimum wage can increase without bound. They told me you were extinct! Judging by the graph, the Good For The Poor point is all the way on the right, so make that two.
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Jun 2, 2015 16:07
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tsa posted:So this forum has now sunk to making homophobic remarks when they can't actually debate the topic at hand. This forum has been something awful since forever.
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Jun 2, 2015 16:17
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