Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Oi oi chips spanner oval office shite your lordship

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? May 31, 2015 18:48

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# ? May 26, 2024 23:34

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

PT6A posted:

I'm okay with this. I also didn't say the Guardian was necessarily wrong, just that they are a bunch of loonies who end up in a frothing rage even time they think about Jeremy Clarkson daring to drive a car with more than 6 horsepower, so forgive me for my time-saving method of never reading their inane drivel. Whether or not it's correct, if it's important, I'm sure there will be a better source that isn't written by jerk-offs.

Life pro tip: those you are predisposed to disagree with are especially worth reading. If your goal is to not be an ignorant poo poo, of course.

# ? May 31, 2015 19:33

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

That's what I tell myself every time I glance at the National Post, anyway.

# ? May 31, 2015 19:58

Melian Dialogue: Jan 9, 2015; NOT A RACIST

Lexicon posted:

Life pro tip: those you are predisposed to disagree with are especially worth reading. If your goal is to not be an ignorant poo poo, of course.

This is a good tip in general, not just for PT6A.

# ? May 31, 2015 20:31

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

The Guardian may not be perfect but it is better than any Canadian newspaper, that's for sure. :colbert:

# ? May 31, 2015 20:39

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

THC posted:

The Guardian may not be perfect but it is better than any Canadian newspaper, that's for sure.

if it's so good why doesn't it have a page 3 girl section like the Toronto Sun?

# ? May 31, 2015 20:42

Melian Dialogue: Jan 9, 2015; NOT A RACIST

THC posted:

The Guardian may not be perfect but it is better than any Canadian newspaper, that's for sure.

For once I agree with you. For a hippie left wing paper it sure is better than the Canadian anarchist conspiracy theory blog that is Rabble.

# ? May 31, 2015 20:56

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

THC posted:

The Guardian may not be perfect but it is better than any Canadian newspaper, that's for sure.

Not reading The Guardian means you're not reading Charlie Brooker's column (infrequent as it is now), which is a drat shame.

Probably his best pair of articles: the set-up and the pay-off

# ? May 31, 2015 20:56

Melian Dialogue: Jan 9, 2015; NOT A RACIST

Dreylad posted:

Not reading The Guardian means you're not reading Charlie Brooker's column (infrequent as it is now), which is a drat shame.

I really wish we had a Canadian version of the weekly wipe that was as good as Charlie Brooker. I guess This Hour has 22 Minutes used to be that, until Rick Mercer left.

# ? May 31, 2015 20:57

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Speaking of Charlie Brooker, you're doing yourself a vast disservice if you've never watched his miniseries, Black Mirror.

Seriously, just loving watch it right now.

# ? May 31, 2015 21:26

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

David Cameron loving a pig to save Beatrice lol

# ? May 31, 2015 21:44

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Lexicon posted:

Speaking of Charlie Brooker, you're doing yourself a vast disservice if you've never watched his miniseries, Black Mirror.

Seriously, just loving watch it right now.

It's on Netflix now too

Cultural Imperial posted:

David Cameron loving a pig to save Beatrice lol

In the canadian remake it would have Harper being forced to gently caress a Albertan

# ? May 31, 2015 22:26

Melian Dialogue: Jan 9, 2015; NOT A RACIST

etalian posted:

It's on Netflix now too

In the canadian remake it would have Harper being forced to gently caress a Albertan

Its on American netflix i think, unfortunately not on Canadian yet.

# ? May 31, 2015 22:28

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle24703195/

quote:

Slumping oil prices have yet to slow down Alberta housing market

Alberta�s housing market is not yet feeling the full weight of low oil prices as the number of newly insured mortgages rose in the province during the first quarter of the year, Canada�s federal housing agency reported.

Alberta represented 23.8 per cent of all new mortgages insured by Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. in the first three months of this year, up from 23.4 per cent a year ago. The province also saw its share of new CMHC-insured mortgages for multiresidential construction, such as apartments and condos, double to 12 per cent. The value of newly insured mortgages in the province rose 2 per cent from last year, to $322,963.

CMHC also insured more new mortgages in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Manitoba. British Columbia saw the biggest increase, with its share of mortgage insurance activity rising to 12.6 per cent from 11.4 per cent at the same time last year. Mortgage insurance activity was down slightly in Quebec, Ontario, Newfoundland and Saskatchewan.

Over all, CMHC insured 50,238 mortgages in the first quarter of the year, down from 55,386 a year earlier. The average insured mortgage rose 2 per cent from last year, to $238,630, while the arrears rate was essentially unchanged.

For the first time, the Crown corporation also released detailed data of its $460-billion mortgage-backed securities programs, which allow lenders to pool insured mortgages and sell them to investors, freeing up money to make new loans.

Federally regulated lenders, largely the major banks, issued $14-billion worth of mortgage securities through CMHC in the first quarter of the year, or 61 per cent of the total market, down from 69 per cent a year ago. Provincially regulated institutions, such as credit unions, issued nearly $2-billion in securities, up 55 per cent from a year ago. Securities issued by investment dealers, which are regulated by an industry association, rose 14 per cent to $3.2-billion.

Mortgage companies, such as First National Financial and MCAP Financial, which are not regulated by either the federal Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions or provincial authorities, issued $3.8-billion in mortgage securities through CMHC, up 33 per cent from a year ago.

CMHC is projecting that over the next five years its role will move away from primarily insuring mortgages toward guaranteeing pools of mortgage securities, which provide a cheap source of funds, particularly for smaller lenders.

hahahaha

# ? Jun 1, 2015 00:08

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

CMHC will shift to the safer business of providing government backing for securitized mortgage loans...

I wonder what the banks will do when they realize they can get even more government backing for poo poo high risk loans?

# ? Jun 1, 2015 00:19

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Lexicon posted:

Life pro tip: those you are predisposed to disagree with are especially worth reading. If your goal is to not be an ignorant poo poo, of course.

I will gladly read sources I disagree with. I've read Granma with some degree of an open mind. From my experience, though, the Guardian is just a rag that I'd only wipe my rear end with if no other material were available, no different than the Sun in essence, but for its ideological bent. They are every bit as intellectually dishonest as any right-wing rag, but they seem to get a pass because they have the Right Opinions.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 00:22

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

That an entire generation of young Australians has been shut out of the Melbourne and Sydney property markets is bad enough. When you consider though that a solution to the problem of housing affordability is staring policy-makers straight in the face, it is a blatant failure of government.

No, it's not negative gearing we are talking about here � although getting rid of negative gearing would help to rein in the budget deficit.

We are talking about anti-money laundering (AML) legislation. All the government has to do is to bring in the AML legislation it said it would bring in almost 10 years ago and the heat, or at least some of the heat, would come out of the market.

At present, Chinese investors are only permitted to take $US50,000 ($65,413) out of the country. Yet they are regularly paying cash for $1.5 million-plus homes in Sydney and Melbourne.

It is a fair assumption then that most of the money pouring into Australian residential property from China is therefore black money.

The first tranche of the AML legislation was introduced for the financial services and gaming sectors in 2007. It was intended that the second tranche be rolled out the next year � covering real estate and other sectors.

Once this second tranche of the AML regime is introduced, it will require the likes of real estate agents and luxury car dealers to identify for the regulator AUSTRAC a whole slew of details about their customers and where the money is coming from.

This will mean anything more than $US50,000 coming out of China may be deemed to be unlawful as it will have breached Chinese foreign investment regulations.

How big is this market, and how much black money are we talking about here?

Credit Suisse estimates some $28 billion of Chinese money has been invested in the Australian housing market over the past six years. Assuming � and there is no way to put an accurate number on this � that half of that $28 billion is black money, then that's $14 billion of Chinese money inflating Australian house prices.

Bear in mind that the principle aim of Chinese investors is to diversify their wealth beyond China, in a stable economic and political environment. It is not to buy yield. Therefore, the basic principles of the market are being distorted. Prices have run too high because these buyers are looking for a place to park their cash rather than achieve an investment return.

Assuming the Credit Suisse estimates are correct and some $60 billion in new Chinese investment floods into Australian housing over the next six years, and assuming that half of that is black money, that's $30 billion in black money which will keep prices inflated over the coming six years.

Chinese buyers were "important drivers of house prices", having claimed 23 per cent of new housing stock in Sydney and 20 per cent in Melbourne in 2013-14, according to Credit Suisse.

"If Chinese buyers are on the verge of snapping up the equivalent of a quarter of new supply, we can see why house prices in both cities have outpaced income growth."

Stemming the tide of Chinese capital is no silver bullet for the vexing issue of housing affordability, but it is surely a stride in the right direction � and one which is not anti-Chinese, anti-foreign investment, or anti-anything apart from anti-money laundering.

It is politically very doable � notwithstanding that politicians and others who already own properties are benefiting personally from the Chinese cash invasion. Moreover, it is economically sensible. There is much hand-wringing about the Reserve Bank further inflating the property bubble if it cuts interest rates to spur economic activity.

Indeed, record low rates, record high property prices, record household debt to income levels (150 per cent plus) and banks lending at 95 per cent loan-to-valuation ratios is potentially catastrophic � especially in the event that unemployment rises. So why is the government dithering on AML?

The draft provisions for the second tranche of AML legislation were released in 2007 for an expected roll-out in 2008. It has been quietly delayed ever since � even despite international pressure and a measure of condemnation from the Financial Action Task Force, the global body which sets the regulatory and operational standards for combating money laundering and terrorist financing.

When Canada tightened up its visa laws early last year, it helped take the heat out of the Vancouver property market (the number one destination for Chinese capital). That only ramped up the billions of dollars plunged into Australia.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/bus...531-ghdjw7.html

Here In Australia horse racing is subject to Anti-money laundering laws but real estate and luxury cars are not. How does it work in Canada?

# ? Jun 1, 2015 02:31

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Our politicians don't care.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 02:45

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

PT6A posted:

I will gladly read sources I disagree with. I've read Granma with some degree of an open mind. From my experience, though, the Guardian is just a rag that I'd only wipe my rear end with if no other material were available, no different than the Sun in essence, but for its ideological bent. They are every bit as intellectually dishonest as any right-wing rag, but they seem to get a pass because they have the Right Opinions.

I don't think that's a fair analysis. They start with certain axioms, sure, as does The Economist on the other side of the fence, but both are undoubtedly intellectually honest by and large.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 02:48

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

The guardian is one of a few publications willing to acknowledge that most of the earth's remaining oil is unburnable. This rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jun 1, 2015

# ? Jun 1, 2015 02:52

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

THC posted:

The guardian is one of a few publications willing to acknowledge that most of the earth's remaining oil is unburnable. This rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

It's also not a fish wrapper newspaper unlike most of the better known UK newspapers

# ? Jun 1, 2015 03:45

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

Jumpingmanjim posted:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/bus...531-ghdjw7.html

Here In Australia horse racing is subject to Anti-money laundering laws but real estate and luxury cars are not. How does it work in Canada?

There's no controls beyond spot checks at the airport for literal bundles of undeclared cash.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 04:51

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

THC posted:

The guardian is one of a few publications willing to acknowledge that most of the earth's remaining oil is unburnable. This rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Its also one of the handful of publications which is privately funded by a trust fund set up a century ago, and thus not beholden to editorial censorship or agenda from financiers.

Coincidence?

# ? Jun 1, 2015 05:32

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

the talent deficit posted:

There's no controls beyond spot checks at the airport for literal bundles of undeclared cash.

Canada, and presumably Australia, aren't in the business of enforcing Chinese currency controls. If someone isn't obviously up to no good, and there isn't really anyway for Canadian authorities to judge a lot of Chinese banking, there would be no flags raised. A legit Chinese business tycoon looks identical to a Chinese tycoon who has signicant loans using a warehouse full of copper as collateral.

Having them move their money here is the point of our governments targeting them for immigration.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 05:36

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

ocrumsprug posted:

Having them move their money here is the point of our governments targeting them for immigration.

This would make a lot more sense if we had an effective way of taxing it.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 05:43

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I was just thinking of something, more of a legal/strata question, but how do you get rid of a condo building? If a developer wanted to redevelop what is currently a strata, how do they go about doing it? Do they have to buy-out every condo one at a time? Do they approach the strata and offer a deal and every single owner has to agree? Majority vote? What are the possible processes for this? I can't think of a situation where it's ever happened.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 05:50

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Baronjutter posted:

I was just thinking of something, more of a legal/strata question, but how do you get rid of a condo building? If a developer wanted to redevelop what is currently a strata, how do they go about doing it? Do they have to buy-out every condo one at a time? Do they approach the strata and offer a deal and every single owner has to agree? Majority vote? What are the possible processes for this? I can't think of a situation where it's ever happened.

http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/what-happens-when-your-vancouver-condo-gets-old-and-you-have-to-decide-whether-to-pull-the-plug/

quote:

What happens when your Vancouver condo gets old and you have to decide whether to pull the plug?
March 5th, 2012 � 39 Comments

It was exciting for me to get to work this year on a story I�ve wanted to do for more than a decade: What is going to happen to Vancouver�s condo buildings at the end of their lives?

I thought that perhaps I might be only imagining there could be problems when 150 people and five retail owners have to decide what to do about a $20-million building. But, when I started making calls, not only did people confirm that there were lots of potential problems, but they told me about unpleasant scenarios that were beyond my wildest speculation.

My story is here and I won�t recapitulate all the points, but I�ll just highlight the fact that we all seemed to have rushed into this new form of ownership on the assumption that everything would just work itself out down the road.

The condo boom changed Vancouver, though it�s not the only city where it happened. As I discovered in Honolulu when I was there in December, condos flourished there starting in the late 1950s. We stole/copied our condo legislation from Australia. And the mainland U.S. was, of course, in on the wave early.

It was a new form of ownership that helped reverse the decline of central cities. When apartment owners could only rent, then the dense inner cities were the dominion only of renters. People who wanted to own, as so many did in the post-war years, HAD to move to the suburbs. The possibility of condo ownership brought some of them back.

(Some might argue it�s also what is destroying affordability in the city, as renters are constantly threatened by the possibility that their building could be stratified or sold and redeveloped. Vancouver�s put a moratorium on that kind of activity for the hundreds of 1970s four-storey walk-ups in the city, but that can�t last forever.)

But to imagine that condo ownership is just like single-family or even duplex home-ownership is to be blind. There are complications that are only beginning to surface. The province moved last year to fix at least one of them. By the end of this year, strata councils will be required to provide statements outlining the condition of the building and future maintenance that will need to be done, along with a clear statement about what reserves are in place to do that.

At least, then, when people buy, they�ll have a better idea of the condition of the whole building. But it�s still not going to solve the problems of many of the people I encountered when I was researching this story. That�s going to take a whole lot more work.

The Vanmag link is broken. Presumably because vanmag is just a loving shill for developers.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 05:57

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

PT6A posted:

This would make a lot more sense if we had an effective way of taxing it.

Not if you have drank deeply from the well of neo-liberalism and the holy job creators.

They have money and are successful business types in their own country, it just makes sense that they will do it here right. The fact that none of the conditions of their previous success exist here.

ocrumsprug fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jun 1, 2015

# ? Jun 1, 2015 05:59

Starsfan: Sep 29, 2007; This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

Baronjutter posted:

I was just thinking of something, more of a legal/strata question, but how do you get rid of a condo building? If a developer wanted to redevelop what is currently a strata, how do they go about doing it? Do they have to buy-out every condo one at a time? Do they approach the strata and offer a deal and every single owner has to agree? Majority vote? What are the possible processes for this? I can't think of a situation where it's ever happened.

I know when those condominiums in Fort McMurray basically sank into the ground and had to be demolished, there were a series of majority votes amongst the condo owners over whether the property should be sold as a vacant parcel, rebuilt into new condominium apartment units for them to own, or redeveloped into a mixed use development and then sold.. so I imagine the process would be something similar, although I'm not sure what would get the condo owners / board to the point where they agreed that it was time to re-develop in a case where it wasn't necessary to do so.

**So After reading the Condominiums Act of Alberta, a special resolution is required (vote with a majority of 75% share of all condo units) to terminate the condominium status of the building and if necessary dispense of the parcel and the improvements to it through a sale. So it's not impossible to do, but it does seem to be a situation where some people could end up unhappy with the results of the vote.

Starsfan fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jun 1, 2015

# ? Jun 1, 2015 06:00

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

PT6A posted:

I will gladly read sources I disagree with. I've read Granma with some degree of an open mind. From my experience, though, the Guardian is just a rag that I'd only wipe my rear end with if no other material were available, no different than the Sun in essence, but for its ideological bent. They are every bit as intellectually dishonest as any right-wing rag, but they seem to get a pass because they have the Right Opinions.

You're being stupid because you got upset about a silly comment piece. The Guardian is one of the best outlets of investigative journalism in the world - they've broken more major stories in recent years than Murdoch has in his entire life. Whatever you may think of some of the people it gives comment space to, it's also the paper that broke Wikileaks, the Snowden/NSA story, and the phone hacking scandal. Rags don't win Pulitzers...

# ? Jun 1, 2015 07:31

The Goon: Sep 11, 2001

LemonDrizzle posted:

You're being stupid because you got upset about a silly comment piece. The Guardian is one of the best outlets of investigative journalism in the world - they've broken more major stories in recent years than Murdoch has in his entire life. Whatever you may think of some of the people it gives comment space to, it's also the paper that broke Wikileaks, the Snowden/NSA story, and the phone hacking scandal. Rags don't win Pulitzers...

This is the same paper that published that brilliant expose on Thomas the Tank Engine being a sexist, classist and white supremacist's wet dream right?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/thomas-the-tank-engine-children-parents

They've broken a lot of legitimately important stories true, but their commentisfree section is not doing them any favors reputation-wise.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 10:18

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

The Guardian's commentisfree section regularly publishes Jeb Lund, aka Mobute aka Boniface (back when Helldump was a thing) and his columns are quite excellent.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 13:19

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

Ceciltron posted:

The Guardian's commentisfree section regularly publishes Jeb Lund, aka Mobute aka Boniface (back when Helldump was a thing) and his columns are quite excellent.

if you folks want to follow the freakshow that is the 2016 GOP primary, jeb's pieces on it are brilliant

# ? Jun 1, 2015 14:10

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Ceciltron posted:

The Guardian's commentisfree section regularly publishes Jeb Lund, aka Mobute aka Boniface (back when Helldump was a thing) and his columns are quite excellent.

I had no loving idea. That's awesome.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 15:58

Rap Songs From Anime: Aug 15, 2007

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/what-happens-when-your-vancouver-condo-gets-old-and-you-have-to-decide-whether-to-pull-the-plug/

The Vanmag link is broken. Presumably because vanmag is just a loving shill for developers.

Took a while but I found a functional link to the article: [url]http://origin.https://www.vanmag.com/Real_Estate/Should_You_Sell_Your_Vancouver_Condo_Today[/url]

edit: mysteriously the site is in maintenance now!

quote:

Should You Sell Your Vancouver Condo Today?
BY FRANCES BULA PUBLISHED MAR 1, 2012

Cypress Gardens looks its 50 years, in good ways and bad. The complex, in North Vancouver�s Capilano Highlands, was built the year the nearby Trans-Canada Highway opened and the Cuban Missile Crisis nearly took the Cold War terminal. Its low-slung beige townhouses are a little shabby. From Westview Drive, its upper-floor siding�once cedar shakes, long ago replaced by vinyl�stands over a tired-looking fence. But Cypress is also an unpretentious break from the million-dollar houses of the North Shore. Even on this winter day, a couple of kids are running around its bridged ponds while parents sherpa loads of groceries from their cars.

That peace is deceptive. Behind the 177 doors of this jointly owned development, a war has been escalating for almost a year. Documents at the Vancouver Supreme Court refer to elderly people shoved out of their homes, new Canadians at the mercy of shady operators, chronic disrepair, contemptuous and illegal actions by owners, false allegations, and more. For the residents, these depositions make for disturbing reading. For almost a million homeowners around Metro Vancouver, they�re early warning signs of a coming legal apocalypse.

The tussle started last March when local developer Polygon Homes approached each of the residents and investor-owners. The offers to buy them out�totalling nearly $67 million, plus incentives like $30,000 discounts on future units�were far better than the single lowball offer Polygon had made in 2003, which the project�s board summarily rejected. This time, many owners were in favour, seeing the money on the table�more than they could get on the market�as the best way out of an aging complex with big repair and maintenance bills on the horizon. Others in the development pushed back, some arguing that the price was too low for what Polygon would build when the area was rezoned, others that no amount of money would make them leave one of the most affordable places in North Van. In the end, although more than half the owners wanted to sell, a substantial portion did not, and Polygon went away. In response, the pro-sale camp headed to the Supreme Court with a petition asking a judge to order the anti side to allow a sale, accepting any future �best price reasonable obtainable.�

Carlos Ruiz is one of those who refused to sell. Wearing a button-down shirt under a plum-coloured V-neck sweater, young-looking for his 62 years, he sits rigidly on a bench at the coffee shop in the Westview mall next to Cypress Gardens. He says that Polygon offered him $450,000 for his three-bedroom townhouse, $100,000 above current market value. �This complex was built with good materials,� says the onetime lawyer from Colombia. �It can last longer. We need to think about the old people here who can�t go anywhere else.� It�s not just the problems of the elderly, or even his own, that bother him. �What I see is that we Canadians have never foreseen the consequences of living together in a common property. We don�t have a system that allows people to understand what to do at the end of their unit�s life.�

End-of-life condo decisions are coming, and they�re coming quickly, says Tony Gioventu, president of B.C.�s Condo Homeowners Association. �We have a number that are coming up to the point where it�s not worth renovating them. I wouldn�t be surprised if there are up to 3,000 buildings up for redevelopment in the next five to 10 years.� Some buildings�those that were solidly constructed, run by competent strata councils, and built at such low density that they aren�t ripe for redevelopment�won�t face these issues for many decades. But for many other buildings, potentially messy funerals are on the way. Gioventu is already helping with some painful situations, like strata complexes in Vancouver where owners are being offered only 50 or 60 cents on the dollar. Because those owners face special assessments north of $100,000, those offers may be the best deal they get. Gioventu is watching another building where one owner controls the majority of units. He wants to sell and is refusing to approve maintenance; if he gets his way, the other two owners could be forced to accept a price that would bankrupt them.

This is just the first wave of buildings built either immediately before the B.C. Strata Titles Act of 1966 (like Cypress Gardens) or just after.

The province�s first strata project was a 1968 Arthur Erickson-designed complex on 40 acres in Port Moody. Problems will snowball as the massive buildout of the 1990s and 2000s times out. Vancouver has more condos per capita than any other city in Canada. The 2006 census showed 37 percent of people in Vancouver were owner-occupiers. (An unknown number more are renter-occupiers.) By 2009, there were 95,000 units in 4,100 strata-titled buildings, according to UBC professor Douglas Harris, who has documented the ubiquity of this form of ownership. Metro Vancouver statistics show there have been dramatically more strata units than single-family homes built in the last decade�four condos or townhouses for every house last year.

Most of these strata units are owned jointly by numerous individuals who must agree when it comes time to wind down�a scale of consensus that is unlikely at best. Ask anyone who�s tried to come to accord with even one other person�an ex-to-be, say, or a brother who�s deeply attached to the family cabin.

�There is an implied provision in the Act, which is that if you have more than 10 units in a project, there will be one jerk,� says lawyer Patrick Williams, one of the city�s premier condo-law experts. �One jerk can bring down the whole house of cards, hold everyone to ransom.� Gioventu, from the owners association, is also less than reassuring: �If you live in a 64-unit building, think of those other 63 people you have to sell with as being like your in-laws.�
Until now, those dysfunctional relationships have been tested over familiar stresses: leaks, maintenance reserves, noise, pets, prostitution, grow-ops. Williams knows of just two cases in B.C. where judges have issued decisions on impasses between owners who want to stay and those who want to demolish and sell the land. (In both cases�one a three-owner condo in Kitsilano, the other a larger project in Burnaby�the judges ruled in favour of the owners who wanted to demolish over those willing to keep pouring money into maintenance.)

Even getting to those decisions hasn�t been easy. �The Strata Property Act here is really in its infancy,� explains Williams. Buyers don�t realize how fuzzy the law is when it comes time to shut it all down. It also sets the bar high for how much agreement is needed: 100 percent. Condo owners who can�t get that in their buildings have to go to court�as the Cypress Gardeners have done�to try to get a judge to order a sale. As if that weren�t enough, there�s another hurdle: the institutions that hold the mortgages may not go along with the deal.

Then the real question: what price is fair? For strata owners faced with complex assessments about the value of a property that faces big repairs yet is potentially worth tens of millions as a redevelopment, that�s tough math. Calculating a fair price is so difficult that the city�s developer association, the Urban Development, has started working with the condo association on ground rules.

In search of other jurisdictions where condo dismantling is further along, UBC professor Tsur Somerville and a group of colleagues looked to Singapore. �This is where we�re all headed,� says Somerville. They looked at the sales of 285 condo buildings after 1994 (when the government introduced regulations allowing developers looking for low-density properties to tear down and rebuild at higher densities). Their study found that the more units in a complex, the less likely the owners would agree (and the less likely a sale would happen). They found that another factor blocking sales was the difference between the smallest and largest units in a building: where units were similar in size (and, consequently, price), sales were more likely. Buildings that were owned mostly or entirely by investors reached sales agreements more easily. And sales became more likely when Singapore changed its law, reducing the owner consensus needed from 100 percent down to 80 or 90.

The Singapore results bode well for B.C. projects that are small and homogenous, less well for the many built in the last 20 years that embody social stratification, with first-time buyers in tiny units at the bottom of towers and penthouse-owning jet-setters on top. The latter buildings promise many fights, especially if unanimity remains a requirement.

For three days in January, Courtroom 43 in Vancouver�s Supreme Court was home to about 35 people related to Cypress Gardens. They listened as their lawyers and neighbours pled their case before Judge William Ehrcke.
Those in favour of selling�a group of investors, as well as a number of residents�argued that the project would require millions of dollars of repairs to keep going for even 10 more years. It made more sense, they argued, to sell at a good price now than to burden everyone with substantial maintenance fees. They sought the right to list the property, which they believed might be worth as much as $90 million, and to accept bids vetted by a committee. Ultimately, argued lawyer Julien Dawson, people who live in condos need to accept that they aren�t going to have complete control over what happens when it comes time to sell collectively. �You run an inherent risk.�
The other side, who said they couldn�t afford a lawyer, argued that if the judge ordered them to sell, they would be forced out of their homes by people who cared about nothing but money. They would never find another place in North Vancouver as cheap. Some of them wouldn�t even be able to get a mortgage. The project, they claimed, was still very livable and didn�t need the $10 million in repairs the other side claimed. �This is about a bunch of people who want to realize profits out of their investment,� Carlos Ruiz said during his two hours of testimony. �But if we are dispossessed, we cannot afford even a small apartment in the area where we reside.�

Both sides elicited outrage and disbelief from the back of the courtroom. When Cam McKechnie, a lawyer for the pro-sale side, suggested it wouldn�t be much of a hardship to live somewhere besides North Vancouver��My lord, what�s the problem with living in Burnaby?��he was met with bitter laughter. Ruiz�s allegation that Polygon was �behind all this� and would manipulate the owners into accepting the lowest price set off waves of facial contortions. During breaks, people gathered outside the courtroom, trading assessments and re-arguing major points, their accents a mix of Farsi, Spanish, French, British, Russian, Korean, and Canadian.

Back in court, viewing decades of family laundry aired for all to see, Judge Ehrcke�calm, tidy, with the mien of a banker�seemed concerned about the anti-sellers� lack of legal representation and about setting a precedent that could be used to force owners in other projects to sell their homes. At times Judge Ehrcke seemed frankly baffled. �Why would anyone buy a home in those circumstances,� he asked, �when all it takes is one person who could force me out of my home? It would be crazy.�

Few condominium owners will have to deal with an imbroglio like that at Cypress Gardens, which is structured like a strata but, because of its age, isn�t quite one. Still, to many condo owners, it will seem equally crazy that a sufficient number of random people in their buildings�their neighbours�could force them out of their homes. Or force them to stay, and pay through the nose trying to maintain a building that�s crumbling around them. VM

Rap Songs From Anime fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jun 1, 2015

# ? Jun 1, 2015 19:13

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

Are you guys ready for some motherfuckin schadenfreude? Well, let's all gather round and kan re nao!

http://chinawatch.washingtonpost.com/2015/05/canada-to-send-back-corrupt-officials/

Some fuckin news thing, sourced through China Daily posted:

Canada will help China to repatriate corrupt officials who have fled there and confiscate their assets, the North American country�s top envoy has said.

�Canada has had very close collaboration with the Chinese government to address such issues,� Canadian Ambassador Guy Saint-Jacques said in an exclusive interview. �We have no desire to harbor fugitives, and we don�t want to be known as welcoming fugitives.�

He said China and Canada will sign an agreement to share the assets that Chinese fugitives transfer illegally to Canada. Negotiations have been completed and the agreement should be finalized in the next few months, he said.

�It will provide a legal basis for Canada to share the proceeds of forfeited assets with China, once we identify the transferred illegal money belongs to criminals or criminal organizations.�

In recent years, Canada and the United States have been seen as favorite destinations for corrupt Chinese officials because of the lack of extradition treaties and difficulties caused by differences between legal systems.

Corrupt officials have transferred billions of yuan to foreign accounts through money laundering networks and underground banks.

Saint-Jacques said a number of high-profile fugitives have been sent back to China from Canada including Lai Changxing, who was found guilty of operating a huge smuggling ring. He was repatriated in 2011 after spending 14 years on the run in Canada.

Judicial cooperation between China and Canada has made great progress and the Canadian judicial authorities are helping Chinese police to arrest fugitives and repatriate them, the ambassador said.

Since 2009, Canada has sent 1,400 Chinese home, including 75 who were repatriated on suspicion of being involved in criminal activities such as drug trafficking, fraud and gambling. The other cases mainly involved illegal immigration, he said.

�Once we have identified that they are fugitives, we will launch an investigation as soon as we have solid evidence. Then we will contact the Canadian Ministry of Justice to start legal proceedings against them and remove them,� he said.

Liao Jinrong, director of the Chinese Ministry of Public Security�s International Cooperation Bureau, said in an earlier interview that Canada has taken measures to cooperate with China on hunting down fugitives.

�They attach great importance to the intelligence the Chinese police give them and cooperate closely with us over the investigation of cases, arrests of suspects and repatriation work,� Liao said.

Saint-Jacques said Canada maintains very high standards in its immigration program. The authorities take action immediately when they learn someone has entered the country with a false visa.

He said liaison officers at the embassy and the Canada Border Service Agency work closely with the ministry and Chinese airlines to curb the flow of illegal immigrants, while providing training to airlines on the identification of false visas and preventing criminals from boarding planes.

These measures have greatly reduced the number of people who try to enter Canada illegally by air.

In 2010, the ministry signed a bilateral agreement covering judicial assistance on criminal matters with Canada to fight cross-border crime.

Huang Feng, a law professor at Beijing Normal University who specializes in extradition issues, said the confiscation and sharing of seized assets between China and Canada would be consistent with international practice.

�Signing such an agreement will facilitate the return of funds illegally sent to Canada by Chinese fugitives and help to combat such crimes,� Huang said.

The source for the Washington Post is China Daily, which is one of China's more fragrantly flagrantly bad government mouthpieces, but it should be pretty interesting to see how this impacts our PERFECTLY FINE REAL ESTATE ECONOMY.

Ceciltron fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jun 1, 2015

# ? Jun 1, 2015 19:57

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Guess they found their warehouse of copper in the mainland.

Implement a foreign property ownership tax on Canadian real estate holdings, no SIN = 30% tax. It might not pop the bubble, but it hopefully would ease the rate of inflation. If Vancouver pops nothing of value was lost anyways.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 20:01

triplexpac: Mar 24, 2007; Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

Not specifically Canada, but...

quote:

Barely one in four of the global workforce has a stable job, UN reports

With relatively little notice, the world passed a modern milestone recently, one that makes any yearning for more stable times seem very farfetched � the global jobless total passed 200 million.

To help put that in perspective, that's 30 million more without work than at the height of the global recession in 2008, according to the UN report that crunched the numbers.

quote:

The situation is likely worse than we think. For the "quality" of Canadian employment � meaning less job security and fewer benefits � is currently at a 25-year low, 10 per cent below what it was in the 1990s, according to the latest CIBC work quality index.

Even in the glittering horseshoe of Southern Ontario, barely half of working adults have full-time permanent jobs, and almost all job growth now seems only to expand the insecure work, the kind that has little prospect of outstripping inflation.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/rise-of-the-precariat-the-global-scourge-of-precarious-jobs-1.3093319

triplexpac fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jun 1, 2015

# ? Jun 1, 2015 21:34

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/whats-behind-canadas-newfound-lust-for-luxury/

:laugh:

# ? Jun 2, 2015 15:35

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 26, 2024 23:34

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

Lexicon posted:

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/whats-behind-canadas-newfound-lust-for-luxury/

That line on condos being "luxury" with cheap walls is just as true for rentals. I've looked at apartments and thought to myself "if this is luxury, I don't want to see normal." I would still live there, but luxury it was not.

# ? Jun 2, 2015 15:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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