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SeanBeansShako posted:It is a drat impressive monument. It always amused me that the Duke Of Wellington got really sulky about it ruining his perfect battlefield. I forgot to mention it, but there are salvaged cannons integrated into the sides of the foot below the column. You can't see them on the pictures above because I stealthily shot the text exactly so you can't see them. (I'm good with a camera.  )Edit: Oh wait, you can see them on the first two pics. I am dumb.  SeanBeansShako posted:It is a drat impressive monument. It always amused me that the Duke Of Wellington got really sulky about it ruining his perfect battlefield. Are you talking about the Löwenhügel? Because this column isn't anywhere near where Wellington fought. He just got half his army from here. Libluini fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 15:32
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This is probably the wrong thread, but what is the idea behind those small statues on extremely high poles? Why not make a large statue, or a statue the can be seen without aid. And was there an era that they are especially associated with?
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Jun 3, 2015 15:36
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1. What was so bad about the Red Tails movie? 2. Were there African-American US Navy pilots, particularly any who fought in the Pacific? If I'm not mistaken the USN was not segregated in WW2 even though the Army was, wasn't it?
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Jun 3, 2015 15:38
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gradenko_2000 posted:1. What was so bad about the Red Tails movie? From the MovieBob review I've read that it's good as long as you understand it's meant to be like the propaganda movies that existed during the era but didn't get made for the black servicemen because of rampant racism, and is meant to reflect the style. Libluini posted:
Just me or are those German names really strange to what I'm used to?
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Jun 3, 2015 15:39
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Libluini posted:Are you talking about the Löwenhügel? Because this column isn't anywhere near where Wellington fought. He just got half his army from here. I never knew or really thought about there being multiple memorials on that battlefield. Boy I feel silly now! Awww, 1864 on iPlayer just went all cartoony on me. It was doing great with it's neutral 19th century war is poo poo angle, but as soon as those certain Prussian Hussars showed they literally put on the Reich with Nazi style pistol executions. They were really doing a good job until now. I know, popular entertainment and all that but still really using war crimes for cheap drama? I can't stand nazi stand in stuff especially out of the historical context. EDIT: Of course nobody under the officers command acted like this poo poo was wrong and are forced to do the same. Thats it, I'm gone. SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 15:42
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Raenir Salazar posted:From the MovieBob review I've read that it's good as long as you understand it's meant to be like the propaganda movies that existed during the era but didn't get made for the black servicemen because of rampant racism, and is meant to reflect the style. I've spend some time photographing those names and didn't see anything strange, you have to be less vague here.
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Jun 3, 2015 15:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:Just me or are those German names really strange to what I'm used to? Some of them may be odd to you because the KGL was a major agent of cultural transfer and its members liked to adopt certain British practices and names, but you're not being very specifc.
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Jun 3, 2015 15:48
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The amount of foreign regiments and soldiers fighting with the British Army during the Napoleonic Wars is quite big. And it is quite surprising how they all influenced each other during and after the conflict as well.
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Jun 3, 2015 15:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:1. What was so bad about the Red Tails movie? From what I remember of it, it was an ok action/story movie but not something entirely accurate. The Germans were also comically evil. Wikipedia also has a section on it quote:Red Tails portrays largely fictional events based on the exploits of the Tuskegee airmen, although many viewers were left with the impression that the film was entirely historically accurate. Through a series of three webinars, entitled: "Tuskegee Airman Webinars – 'Was the Movie Accurate'?" sponsored by the Commemorative Air Force's Red Tail Squadron, surviving Tuskegee Airmen Colonel Charles McGee and Colonel Harold Brown provided perspectives related to the film's interpretation. Although discussions as to use of equipment and dates were mentioned, three claims made in the film were the most contentious: the number of losses suffered by bomber crews under escort, the encounters with Luftwaffe jet fighters and the overall record established by the Tuskegee Airmen.[49] As for African-American Navy pilots, I'm not sure an entire squadron similar to the Red Tails existed, but my Google-fu is a little weak today.
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Jun 3, 2015 15:58
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SeanBeansShako posted:The amount of foreign regiments and soldiers fighting with the British Army during the Napoleonic Wars is quite big. And it is quite surprising how they all influenced each other during and after the conflict as well. Yeah, especially the German Legion was founded by refugees of the collapsing Elb Monarchy. It was one of the dumber times in Hanoverian history. The army just meekly dissolved itself, essentially. Napoleon's armies didn't even have to fight. The real irony here is: The army of Braunschweig-Lüneburg agreed to intern itself on the other side of the river for the rest of the war, but because Napoleon wanted the army completely disarmed and dissolved, a lot of the soldiers ended up in Great Britain and became part of the German Legion instead. Our city was lucky in other ways too, when the Congress of Vienna negated everything and created the Kingdom of Hanover out of all those broken pieces. Interesting tidbit: The northwest of Braunschweig-Lüneburg, together with my old hometown Nienburg, was later in the war declared French and became part of the French Empire. Until Napoleon lost, that is. 
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Jun 3, 2015 16:05
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SeanBeansShako posted:The amount of foreign regiments and soldiers fighting with the British Army during the Napoleonic Wars is quite big. And it is quite surprising how they all influenced each other during and after the conflict as well. Hanover specifically is a bit of a special case though, seeing as George III was also the Elector of Hanover until Napoleon rolled in. Those guys were already his troops.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:23
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ArchangeI posted:Actually the kamikaze hits permanently warped the decks and led to the carriers being scrapped after the war, but oh well I guess That doesn't mean they couldn't have been replaced, there's just not much reason to do so post-war given, well, there's no war and also Britain's flat broke.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:37
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Hard to tell what are names but "Heinr Borchert"?
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Jun 3, 2015 16:44
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Raenir Salazar posted:Hard to tell what are names but "Heinr Borchert"? That's short for "Heinrich Borchert", a completely ordinary German name. Fake Edit: Woah, there were a lot of Heinrichs among the fallen. Libluini fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 16:52
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feedmegin posted:That doesn't mean they couldn't have been replaced, there's just not much reason to do so post-war given, well, there's no war and also Britain's flat broke. A warped hull girder is pretty much the definition of beyond economic repair.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:What were all those troops doing? I always get the impression only 100k are doing anything at any time. Considering there were, on the Allies side alone, ~5.5 million troops involved on the western front I would say you are very confused. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Front_(World_War_II)#/media/File:Persuit_to_the_West_Wall.jpg
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Jun 3, 2015 17:18
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Murgos posted:Considering there were, on the Allies side alone, ~5.5 million troops involved on the western front I would say you are very confused. I mean that whenever you read about the actual combat operations the number of Allied troops actively fighting seems fairly small, and their advance relatively slow compared to their relative numbers; unless the Germans have a similar number of troops?
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Jun 3, 2015 17:30
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SeanBeansShako posted:It is a drat impressive monument. It always amused me that the Duke Of Wellington got really sulky about it ruining his perfect battlefield. The one Libluini posted is the one at Hanover, not the Waterloo mound of dirt that Wellington hated. Here's the Waterloo one:  Silhouette by Phanatic, on FlickrView from the top's pretty nice, though.  Butte by Phanatic, on Flickr Waterloo by Phanatic, on Flickr
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Jun 3, 2015 17:37
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While looking at 19th century car designs I spotted a missed opportunity that would also looked rad with armoured cars. Yes, La Jamais Contente which not only was the first car to break 100 kmh limit, but also looked like a Japanese invented tank destroyer or a scrapped design from Mad Max Fury Road. Why do 21st century cars look absolutely dull in comparison? Okay, it has no cabin, no seat belts, no wind screen, but I'd die happily driving that with a fistful of bugs in my mouth.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:49
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The horn is a actual huntsmans horn you keep at your feet.
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Jun 3, 2015 18:30
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Libluini posted:That's short for "Heinrich Borchert", a completely ordinary German name. Historically, this is one of the most common germanic names. For instance, I work in a supermarket in Denmark, and two of my mates are named Henrik (the Danish version), and we use powerlifters of the brand Jungheinrich (literally, "young Heinrich").
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Jun 3, 2015 18:42
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Raenir Salazar posted:I mean that whenever you read about the actual combat operations the number of Allied troops actively fighting seems fairly small, and their advance relatively slow compared to their relative numbers; unless the Germans have a similar number of troops? I don't know what to tell you. It's hard to be in multiple places at once across several 1000 miles of front so you have to use a lot of people. The map I linked shows 7 (?) Armies each consisting of several corps with their attendant logistics train advancing across a front stretching from Italy to the Netherlands.
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Jun 3, 2015 18:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:What were all those troops doing? I always get the impression only 100k are doing anything at any time. Where on earth did you get that impression.
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Jun 3, 2015 18:58
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bloodsacrifice posted:Where on earth did you get that impression. Usually when I'm reading about various WWII battles on Wikipedia the sequence of events is usally "So and so division fight so and so division while helping some other division" or the same thing but with regiments which really doesn't well capture the scale well at all. This isn't an unreasonable impression.
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Jun 3, 2015 19:01
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Raenir Salazar posted:Usually when I'm reading about various WWII battles on Wikipedia the sequence of events is usally "So and so division fight so and so division while helping some other division" or the same thing but with regiments which really doesn't well capture the scale well at all. To help you with visualizing scale, next time you read something like "Division Alfalfa advanced 10km across the Bermuda Mountain Range", go outside and spend a day in the mountains yourself. Try to walk at least 10km before going home again. Maybe then you'll look at a map next time and start appreciating the huge numbers involved more.
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Jun 3, 2015 19:11
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Raenir Salazar posted:Usually when I'm reading about various WWII battles on Wikipedia the sequence of events is usally "So and so division fight so and so division while helping some other division" or the same thing but with regiments which really doesn't well capture the scale well at all. From how it sounds to me, yes it is. Can you specify a case? Just because some division isn't actively assaulting enemy lines doesn't mean that they're just sitting in barracks with their thumbs up their asses. From time to time all units need to resupply, reinforce, secure flanks, reconnoiter, rebuild infrastructure etc. Only by doing so can they "do things" at all. Also keeping pressure on the enemy outside the centre of gravity is still doing something. You don't want to attack across a marsh, for example, if you can break through better terrain with a road network, but you want to patrol that marsh area in case the enemy presents an opportunity by withdrawing there.
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Jun 3, 2015 19:14
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Libluini posted:To help you with visualizing scale, next time you read something like "Division Alfalfa advanced 10km across the Bermuda Mountain Range", go outside and spend a day in the mountains yourself. Try to walk at least 10km before going home again. Maybe then you'll look at a map next time and start appreciating the huge numbers involved more. If you hate the wilderness, just use Google Maps and use its directions to calculate the distance between two points you are familiar with. Then just visualize whatever respective terrain they would've been on, because anyone will tell you its a hell of a lot easier to walk 10km of flat ground rather than 10km of dense jungle you need to cut away at with every step, in the blistering heat.
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Jun 3, 2015 19:15
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V. Illych L. posted:i quite like Louis Barthas Here's a thing:  The Recovery of Bahía de Todos los Santos, ~1634/1635. It commemorates the recapture of the Brazilian port of Salvador da Bahia from the Dutch by Fadrique Álvarez de Toledo y Mendoza in May 1625. That's Alvarez in the background, gesturing triumphantly at a picture of Philip IV (who is also my subjects' employer) being crowned by Victory and the Count-Duke of Olivares and trampling Heresy, War and Wrath beneath his feet. But what's that in the foreground? The people who did it for him, men, women, and children. It's still idealized--everyone is clean, there's no blood on the wounded dude, everyone is good looking (note how plump the women are--these people would think 21st century Westerners want to be too skinny), everyone is dressed really well. (In the military style, of course; look at the little slashes on the central woman's jacket, and the stripes on the guys in the foreground in front of the portrait of Philip IV.) Still though; the force of this painting is about the contrast between that bombast on the right and those kids hiding behind the adults, covering their faces, wondering if their dad's going to be OK. The painter was a monk, maybe that was it, but Spain was also kind of self-conscious and introspective about war at this time--Recovery of Bahia was displayed next to Surrender of Breda, which is also about far more than victory. Right in the middle of this room devoted to glorifying the king and his conquests, there's always that reminder. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 20:17
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I visited the U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center in Pennsylvania last Saturday and got pictures of literally everything on the trail. I'll upload some of the neater stuff, but one of their most impressive displays is a replica of a third line American trench in World War I opposite a replica World War I German pillbox. Both of them let you jump in and run around all you want and even climb over the top of the trench. They also had replicas of Redoubt 10 at Yorktown and a small section of a Vietnam artillery base, but the WW1 stuff was the most extensive.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:42
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Jobbo_Fett posted:If you hate the wilderness, just use Google Maps and use its directions to calculate the distance between two points you are familiar with. Then just visualize whatever respective terrain they would've been on, because anyone will tell you its a hell of a lot easier to walk 10km of flat ground rather than 10km of dense jungle you need to cut away at with every step, in the blistering heat. This is a good start, but then imagine that every dip in the terrain, every row of bushes, every cluster of rocks, every building, every stand of trees etc. could be hiding a bunch of dudes who want to kill you, and figure out how damned careful you would have to be even moving a hundred yards down the road. NOW throw in worrying about being caught out in the open by exploding poo poo. Sure those trees might have a bunch of dudes with rifles or maybe even a tank, but that field that's so visibly empty would be a hell of a place to be during a barrage. Oh yeah, exploding poo poo might be buried in the roads or any obvious place where a sane person would want to walk.
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Jun 4, 2015 01:40
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Cyrano4747 posted:This is a good start, but then imagine that every dip in the terrain, every row of bushes, every cluster of rocks, every building, every stand of trees etc. could be hiding a bunch of dudes who want to kill you, and figure out how damned careful you would have to be even moving a hundred yards down the road. I've been going through The Boys of '67 and one of the biggest trends is that in Vietnam, booby traps were basically like flowers along the road. You could barely walk through any stretch of jungle or a village in even semi-hostile territory without the risk that you'd suddenly feel your leg pulling on a tripwire. The VC would fill up areas with mines and tripwire-rigged grenades even if there was nothing of value to defend, just because it would slow and demoralize the Americans. There's one incident late in the book where the colonel in charge (who was previously established as preferring to micromanage from a helicopter over the battlefield and demanding that units repeatedly pop smoke to indicate their locations to him) demanded that his soldiers advance into a thick minefield after taking casualties because he believed that the VC would only create such a field of traps if they were defending something really valuable.
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Jun 4, 2015 03:16
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SeanBeansShako posted:So I take it a majority of the surplus from the 2nd World War was scrapped if it was obsolete or beyond minor repair? I am curious now what determined was good enough to sell after the war and what wasn't really needed. Well, the end of WWII ushered in the jet era, the MBT, assault rifles being the primary infantry weapon, nuclear propulsion, strategic missiles, etc all within like a decade. I mean maybe some stuff was retrofitted but poo poo that won the war went into the dustbin before people were even really demobilized. I'd say yeah a majority of it became obsolete.
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Jun 4, 2015 05:36
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FAUXTON posted:Well, the end of WWII ushered in the jet era, the MBT, assault rifles being the primary infantry weapon, nuclear propulsion, strategic missiles, etc all within like a decade. I mean maybe some stuff was retrofitted but poo poo that won the war went into the dustbin before people were even really demobilized. That was the sound of a million logically officers crying out in agony at the thought of having to completely revamp their inventories.
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Jun 4, 2015 05:39
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FAUXTON posted:Well, the end of WWII ushered in the jet era, the MBT, assault rifles being the primary infantry weapon, nuclear propulsion, strategic missiles, etc all within like a decade. I mean maybe some stuff was retrofitted but poo poo that won the war went into the dustbin before people were even really demobilized. Put it this way: while VJ Day was going on the Royal Navy was frantically dumping their stocks of American-built aircraft into the Pacific to avoid having to actually pay for them under Lend-Lease terms.
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Jun 4, 2015 07:07
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Put it this way: while VJ Day was going on the Royal Navy was frantically dumping their stocks of American-built aircraft into the Pacific to avoid having to actually pay for them under Lend-Lease terms. I thought Lend-Lease meant they could have just handed them back over to the Americans and consider the debt paid? You know, the "Lend" part?
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Jun 4, 2015 07:12
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Put it this way: while VJ Day was going on the Royal Navy was frantically dumping their stocks of American-built aircraft into the Pacific to avoid having to actually pay for them under Lend-Lease terms.
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Jun 4, 2015 07:50
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ArchangeI posted:I thought Lend-Lease meant they could have just handed them back over to the Americans and consider the debt paid? You know, the "Lend" part? I doubt that they left most of the planes Mint in Box.
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Jun 4, 2015 12:37
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Put it this way: while VJ Day was going on the Royal Navy was frantically dumping their stocks of American-built aircraft into the Pacific to avoid having to actually pay for them under Lend-Lease terms. I doubt it happened or if it did it was for Lend-Lease. Sounds apocryphal and it has a lot of issues. Fraud by a grateful ally not least among them but also that the terms would be operational losses are written off. Anyway the terms of Lend-Lease were that the US Lends you stuff and in return you let the US Lease military bases in your territory (which results as a cash transfer to the host country?). I don't think there was any intention that the US be paid cash money for equipment transferred under that program. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease posted:In general the aid was free, although some hardware (such as ships) were returned after the war. In return, the U.S. was given leases on bases in Allied territory during the war. Equipment transferred to the UK after the terms of lend lease expired (Sept 1945) were 'sold' at a 90% discount paid for with loans. So that doesn't work either since the equipment would have been already paid for and was after VJ day. Murgos fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Jun 4, 2015 |
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Jun 4, 2015 12:40
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100 Years Ago Is there an attack on Gallipoli today? Yes, there is! Is it a horrific, murderous failure? Yes, it is! Colour me surprised, shocked, bewildered, appalled, and anything else you can find in the thesaurus. (Also the yucky green colour I used for today's terrible map.) The Italians run into unexpected difficulties trying to advance on Monfalcone and end up having a relaxing paddle instead. And we're still short-changing Przemysl as it's liberated from Russian control today.
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Jun 4, 2015 13:27
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FAUXTON posted:Well, the end of WWII ushered in the jet era, the MBT, assault rifles being the primary infantry weapon, nuclear propulsion, strategic missiles, etc all within like a decade. I mean maybe some stuff was retrofitted but poo poo that won the war went into the dustbin before people were even really demobilized. Still wasn't an immediate shift, as the Korean War demonstrated. It was still Americans with M1 Garands vs. guys with bolt-action rifles (and some semi-autos like the SKS) and large numbers of submachine guns, with nary an assault rifle to be seen on either side. There were even prop planes still seeing use, though jets dominated. Almost all of the tanks on the battlefield were World War II vintage; it wasn't until 1960 that the American military totally eliminated the "light, medium, heavy" classification, even if they did have what could be called MBTs beforehand and the Sheridan was kinda sorta a light tank. World War II weapons were still in use through Vietnam and some (like the M3 Grease Gun) lasted up through the 1990s. The Americans didn't even want to get on board with proper assault rifles until the 1960s, instead just modifying their M1 Garands for full auto fire and box magazines with a cartridge that was nearly identical for all practical purposes in combat. And this is all speaking from an American perspective; some countries advanced certain aspects faster than others or stayed unusually stagnant. As with any transition, the developments seem really sudden and revolutionary from our modern perspective but were actually quite gradual, taking a good 20 years or so to fully shake off the vestiges of World War II. The transition between the 2000s and 2010s will probably seem just as sudden as the transition between the 70s and 80s in a few decades, even if right now 2015 still feels a whole lot like 2008 to many people. Likewise, military advancements of the fastest type can still take a decade or two to totally disseminate even if hindsight makes it look like everyone just threw out the old crap as soon as they hit a certain date.
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Jun 4, 2015 14:21
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