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Color Printer posted:Wow, I'm barely starting to learn the intricacies of this game's mechanics to prepare for the fiesta (thanks to everyone in the IRC!) and even I'm baffled by that plan. Mystic Knights get auto shell when critical. Not sure why reflect rings when he's planning on absorbing fire.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:23
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Mystic Knights get Magic Shell, which auto-casts shell onto itself when at critical HP. The Reflect Rings would be for bouncing Firaga and Aeroga back at the crystals. The former makes it really easy to get gibbed by their physicals right off the bat (which happened in his run) and the latter can make the Fire and Air crystals heal themselves up quite a bit if you don't focus them first.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:24
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Right, forgot about Magic Shell. Either way that plan doesn't seem very good.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:27
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Schwartzcough posted:Yeah, and erosion will eventually make that hill flat, but a steam shovel is faster. !Mix just tends to be too slow and cumbersome to be worthwhile if you have other good skills, which are
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Jun 5, 2015 04:32
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And dear lord, Chemist with a Blue Mage is essentially a "gently caress you game, I win" button.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:34
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Chaotic Neutral posted:Most other good commands can exploit and destroy a limited subset of bosses in a tenth of the time, and then meet their own walls in other places. Chemist isn't the god of making random encounters painless, but it single-handedly sets you up for kills on the entire game regardless of your party composition, and can enable even more gimmickry depending on that party composition. It's also incredibly light to learn in ABP and enables some of the lowest level clears you can get with a Fiesta team. You want to talk about time saving? It's not the twenty turns you spend prepping for a boss, it's the hundreds worth of grinding that you can entirely skip. One of these runs I'll actually get chemist. Instead, I have my practice run sitting at Archaeofuckwad on WHM/SMN/GEO. AKA, "Walk through the first four forms and then Chocobo I guess?" (Except I didn't buy Chocobo.)
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Jun 5, 2015 04:38
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Color Printer posted:Right, forgot about Magic Shell. It's not. Between instant kill attacks via catching Aquathornes and a combination Focus from the Monk/Sword Dance from the Barehanded Dancer, he had plenty of tactical, lateral-thinking ways to murder the things and he came up with that.  I'm pretty sure this is also after he spent literally two hours using !Control on Shield Dragons to grind XP.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:38
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Chaotic Neutral posted:Most other good commands can exploit and destroy a limited subset of bosses in a tenth of the time, and then meet their own walls in other places. Chemist isn't the god of making random encounters painless, but it single-handedly sets you up for kills on the entire game regardless of your party composition, and can enable even more gimmickry depending on that party composition. It's also incredibly light to learn in ABP and enables some of the lowest level clears you can get with a Fiesta team. You want to talk about time saving? It's not the twenty turns you spend prepping for a boss, it's the hundreds worth of grinding that you can entirely skip. I find myself doing more grinding (for materials) with Chemist than I do without a Chemist. That's one of the reasons the job does not thrill me. The only times I ever really "grind" in FFV fiestas: 1. Chemist materials 2. Stupid reflect rings 3. The Bal Castle statues if I have some really ABP-heavy jobs. That's it. I usually run from any and all annoying encounters, so I tend to be very low-leveled at the end. Still, I usually work out a way to not have to grind levels to get past Almagest.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:39
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Kyrosiris posted:It's not. Not to mention that Bartz with the Flame shield means that drain blade is largely a waste since if he went with elemental weaknesses he'd be able to utterly murder the crystal before it could melee him to death, since once it starts flinging fire attacks he can't die.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:43
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Schwartzcough posted:I find myself doing more grinding (for materials) with Chemist than I do without a Chemist. That's one of the reasons the job does not thrill me. The only times I ever really "grind" in FFV fiestas: Like, my hatred of grinding is well enough noted, and I find Bal so insufferable that I'd rather go through the rest the hard way than bore myself to death there. You can get by on 30-ish turtle shells and whatever dragon fangs and dark matters you scrape up through the game naturally, unless you're dedicated to the idea of fistfighting Shinryu at the end or have absolutely no firepower worth noting and need to use Succubus' Kiss as your primary offense. And even then, all the Chemist materials are guaranteed drops off certain monsters, so..
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Jun 5, 2015 04:44
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Chaotic Neutral posted:And even then, all the Chemist materials are guaranteed drops off certain monsters, so.. And only Dragon Fangs are the really obnoxious ones, of which you really only need (assuming levels under 35) 16 of for Omega (assuming you just berserk Shinryu and move on with your life - I like to manfight him though and thus need another 16). You get Turtle Shells two at a go from Grass Turtles, which can be one shot by basically anyone in the third world and are available a loving stone's throw from the Void. Hell, you could even slash that Dragon Fang number to 3 if it's your Chemist themselves doing the superboss murder and you use Samson's Mights (23) instead of Dragon Power (12) and drink a real Goliath Tonic.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:56
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Trasson posted:The perfect ability would be one which wins the battle in a single action while incurring no loss of resources. Nothing does that, but the closer you can get, the better. !Mix, in a single command, gives you invincibility and unresistable killing power. !Iainuki says hi.  The only thing it's missing is a way to work on Heavy enemies/bosses, but otherwise it's the closest you get to those specific requirements.
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Jun 5, 2015 06:22
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KataraniSword posted:!Iainuki says hi. It also takes forever to go off, which means you're taking hits while waiting for Musashi to run that poo poo, which means you'll probably have to spend resources healing the damage. But really, if such an ability were present in FFV, what fuckin' fun would it be?
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Jun 5, 2015 06:42
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Saigyouji posted:Dragondarch's method for killing the Crystals is still nothing short of amazing, though. All this time later, I finally notice that I typed "prosperity" when I meant "posterity."  But yeah, dragondarch was bad at FFV last year. I've never seen his speed run attempts at other games, so who knows, maybe he's actually halfway competent in those, but here, he was completely out of his depth, even having supposedly done some research beforehand, and pretty much ignored any and all advice from Fiesta veterans who've been doing this poo poo for years and know better. That said... for all the poo poo we give him for being terrible, it is nice that he's agreed to come back and do another run at this. Partly because people doing stuff for charity is always cool, and partly because I look forward to whatever batshit insanity we're going to end up adding to .dd on CarbyBot from this year's run.
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Jun 5, 2015 07:00
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Kyrosiris posted:And only Dragon Fangs are the really obnoxious ones, of which you really only need (assuming levels under 35) 16 of for Omega (assuming you just berserk Shinryu and move on with your life - I like to manfight him though and thus need another 16). You get Turtle Shells two at a go from Grass Turtles, which can be one shot by basically anyone in the third world and are available a loving stone's throw from the Void. Sure, you don't need to grind more than a couple items if you just go ahead and assume you're not really going to use your Chemist for anything but fighting Omega for the whole game, in which case they're an extremely mediocre class (like, Red Mage without the ability to break rods). Otherwise you're gonna be grinding. And despite what people claim in this thread, you are absolutely not rolling in gil for the vast majority of the game. Hell, most people have to grind money to afford the stuff they want from Mirage Village at the end of the game. So chances are your chemist isn't running around with a ton of phoenix downs or ethers either. When you limit them to potions and maidens kisses and such, they're much less versatile and powerful. Boy, people take the suggestion that !Mix and chemists aren't perfect in every way very seriously. Chemists are an extremely powerful and versatile job, but that statement does have a big asterisk by it. There's nothing wrong with that! Every job in the game is great*. That's what makes it so much fun to play around with, as opposed to having The One True Job, and all the rest.
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Jun 5, 2015 07:02
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My comment on Chemist is this: I'm mildly annoyed that you can't use the berserk bug to glitch Exdeath and skip his final form in the Fiesta anymore. There's no party with a Chemist in it which is incapable of beating his final form easily by using Drink and Mix to set up for it, and more importantly it is a funny bug and doing it once should be considered a tradition and rite of passage. God bless you and thank you.
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Jun 5, 2015 07:16
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Schwartzcough posted:Sure, you don't need to grind more than a couple items if you just go ahead and assume you're not really going to use your Chemist for anything but fighting Omega for the whole game, in which case they're an extremely mediocre class (like, Red Mage without the ability to break rods). Otherwise you're gonna be grinding. And despite what people claim in this thread, you are absolutely not rolling in gil for the vast majority of the game. Hell, most people have to grind money to afford the stuff they want from Mirage Village at the end of the game. So chances are your chemist isn't running around with a ton of phoenix downs or ethers either. When you limit them to potions and maidens kisses and such, they're much less versatile and powerful. By all rights, the only thing you should be grinding for with chemists is Turtle Shells. The Dragon Fang mixes are nice but not essential (EDIT: Not counting bonus boss fighting, where you want all those level up potions and the like), the Dark Matter mixes generally suck except for Shadow Flare, but Hasty-ade and Succubus Kiss are ludicrous. Incidentally, getting those turtle shells should also give you the money you need for phoenix downs, too. Can't help you on Ethers unless you decided to do all of your grinding before World 2, though. I agree that there's way too much grinding to make Mix as good as it can be, though, with the qualifier that "any grinding at all" is way too much. An extra hour in a run will give you what you need, but sometimes you just want to loving play the game. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jun 5, 2015 |
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Jun 5, 2015 07:37
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Schwartzcough posted:Sure, you don't need to grind more than a couple items if you just go ahead and assume you're not really going to use your Chemist for anything but fighting Omega for the whole game, in which case they're an extremely mediocre class (like, Red Mage without the ability to break rods). Otherwise you're gonna be grinding. And despite what people claim in this thread, you are absolutely not rolling in gil for the vast majority of the game. Hell, most people have to grind money to afford the stuff they want from Mirage Village at the end of the game. So chances are your chemist isn't running around with a ton of phoenix downs or ethers either. When you limit them to potions and maidens kisses and such, they're much less versatile and powerful. quote:Boy, people take the suggestion that !Mix and chemists aren't perfect in every way very seriously. Chemists are an extremely powerful and versatile job, but that statement does have a big asterisk by it. There's nothing wrong with that! Every job in the game is great*. That's what makes it so much fun to play around with, as opposed to having The One True Job, and all the rest.
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Jun 5, 2015 08:51
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My favorite part of the Dragondarch plan was all his planning becoming irrelevant because he annihilated the seals with Swords Dance anyway.
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Jun 5, 2015 09:56
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chemist is really powerful and amazing and good but i personally fuckin can't stand using it. I dunno why, but that's how it is. i sure as hell recognize how broke-dick they are though!!
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Jun 5, 2015 10:10
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Did nobody tell Dragondarch that was a stupid plan at the time?
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Jun 5, 2015 10:53
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Golden Goat posted:Did nobody tell Dragondarch that was a stupid plan at the time? For his trouble, he got banned from DD's twitch chat.
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Jun 5, 2015 10:58
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Chaotic Neutral posted:Kyro did. Hahahahahah jesus loving christ what an asshat.
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Jun 5, 2015 12:41
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: I've devised a fullproof way of beating the crystals that only takes 2 hours of grinding and setup to achieve! : Why not just use instant-death attacks cause they're not immune to it? : I AM THE AUTHORITY ON FINAL FANTASY V SPEED RUNS AND GET THE gently caress OFF MY CHAT! 
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Jun 5, 2015 13:12
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To be fair, the instant death attacks in question have something like a 30% chance to hit a single target and he can only bring 4 of them.
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Jun 5, 2015 13:14
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dis astranagant posted:To be fair, the instant death attacks in question have something like a 30% chance to hit a single target and he can only bring 4 of them. I'd still just straight up still pick the insta-death plan over grinding out anything else.
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Jun 5, 2015 13:19
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It took me hours to make this picture, which has a higher chance of success and I still gave up before I got the full thing.
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Jun 5, 2015 13:31
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Golden Goat posted:I'd still just straight up still pick the insta-death plan over grinding out anything else. I mean yeah, the odd aren't hot, but he could've chucked two or three Aquathornes, seen what landed, then used Sword Dance to finish the job (like what happened to two of the three non-fire crystals on his successful attempt).  But nope, let's destroy the best piece of defensive equipment in the game.
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Jun 5, 2015 13:32
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I know insta-death definitely isn't the best option (especially with DD's team setup) but to me it's just satisfying handing all my members death sickles and watchings skulls appear over each enemy.
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Jun 5, 2015 14:07
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Golden Goat posted:I know insta-death definitely isn't the best option (especially with DD's team setup) but to me it's just satisfying handing all my members death sickles and watchings skulls appear over each enemy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Rh5pCRleI
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Jun 5, 2015 14:22
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I'm curious now, does counter include magical properties of the weapon used for the counter?
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Jun 5, 2015 14:27
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Every time I see that effect go off, I can't help but 
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Jun 5, 2015 23:16
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Is there anywhere I can get Reflect Rings (Wall Rings) in World 2 after beating the crystals? I'm going to need something to keep up with Exdeath as I'm pretty sure any -aga is going to one-shot any one of my party. If I don't have any way to reflect I guess I'll just have to tank at the beginning of the fight until I song my way to eight turns for every one of his. I managed to do it with the crystals even with four of them hitting me (double singing may or may not stack but it helps to have twice the chance for a song to continue while you're getting pounded on). Will he run out of MP if I just keep lancing him?
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Jun 5, 2015 23:40
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OzFactor posted:Is there anywhere I can get Reflect Rings (Wall Rings) in World 2 after beating the crystals? I'm going to need something to keep up with Exdeath as I'm pretty sure any -aga is going to one-shot any one of my party. If I don't have any way to reflect I guess I'll just have to tank at the beginning of the fight until I song my way to eight turns for every one of his. I managed to do it with the crystals even with four of them hitting me (double singing may or may not stack but it helps to have twice the chance for a song to continue while you're getting pounded on). He can run out of MP... except he has 32768, so have fun with that.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:42
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OzFactor posted:Is there anywhere I can get Reflect Rings (Wall Rings) in World 2 after beating the crystals? They're a rare steal from Reflect Mages in Exdeath's Castle. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jun 5, 2015 |
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Jun 5, 2015 23:53
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Don't know why I've never done this before, since FFV is my favourite Final Fantasy to actually play, it and the only one I've beat more than like twice. What's the best version of the game these days?
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Jun 6, 2015 00:42
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Prison Warden posted:Don't know why I've never done this before, since FFV is my favourite Final Fantasy to actually play, it and the only one I've beat more than like twice. What's the best version of the game these days? FF5A (the GBA one) is generally seen as the "definitive" version, having the most polished script and none of the mobile phone weirdness (wonky character sprites, fixed bugs that were actually helpful when they existed) but there's a pretty strong case for a few of the mobile quality-of-life features (such as an autobattle setting that remembers your last-entered command) and the fact that it's the only version easily available legitimately nowdays.
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Jun 6, 2015 00:57
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Zombies' Downfall posted:My comment on Chemist is this: I'm mildly annoyed that you can't use the berserk bug to glitch Exdeath and skip his final form in the Fiesta anymore. There's no party with a Chemist in it which is incapable of beating his final form easily by using Drink and Mix to set up for it, and more importantly it is a funny bug and doing it once should be considered a tradition and rite of passage. God bless you and thank you. You can still abuse the bug in the GBA version, but it requires the Cannoneer instead of the Chemist. So yeah, not Fiesta-legal 
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Jun 6, 2015 01:02
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Saigyouji posted:He can run out of MP... except he has 32768, so have fun with that. I'm pretty sure someone spoke about this in regards to Omniscient (bad idea - items cause him to cast reset) - but I believe max mp values are still set on enemies with mp higher than that max (I want to say it's 9999, more than a player can get). So the point being, there is a logic check for healing/restoring mp where you can't go over the maximum value, which will automatically set the current value to the maximum. In this case causing mp loss of around 22,000.
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Jun 6, 2015 01:05
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Ugato posted:I'm pretty sure someone spoke about this in regards to Omniscient (bad idea - items cause him to cast reset) - but I believe max mp values are still set on enemies with mp higher than that max (I want to say it's 9999, more than a player can get). So the point being, there is a logic check for healing/restoring mp where you can't go over the maximum value, which will automatically set the current value to the maximum. In this case causing mp loss of around 22,000. That is correct. Not that I'd advocate trying to drain W2 Exdeath of his MP unless you have Bard (and thus everyone can use !Hide), but yeah, it's an interesting thing to be aware of.
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Jun 6, 2015 01:11
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