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Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

VostokProgram posted:

Did I write something dumb?

Quality poster and linux savant nosl tried to mime to you that the only real solution is to use Arch Linux, for everything, forever.

And somewhat less facetious: Marinmo's link to the OBS works, since they build for Fedora. Another option would be the official mono repository from the mono project itself, which should keep you up-to-date without the need to trust a random person building packages: http://www.mono-project.com/docs/getting-started/install/linux/#centos-fedora-and-derivatives

That's technically option #3.5, since it's an external repository, but at least it is a first-person repository.

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wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

SurgicalOntologist posted:

I'm having trouble logging into Fedora 22. It goes to a black screen after logging in. Switching to a tty and checking dmesg showed nothing interesting. Switched back, I'm back at the login screen. Sam result. Back at the tty, now dmesg shows a segfault (this has happened three times now with three different segfaults, gnome-shell in libmutter, gnome-shell in libxkbcommon, and once in gdm, forget the library). Reinstalled everything I could think of, restart, same result. Tried launching gnome-session from the tty, and it works except things are screwy because there seem to be two gnome sessions on the same display. Manage to logout and try again, now everything is working and I'm afraid to restart.

So, uh, any relevant logs I should be looking at for something like this?

It is this issue, though wrongly flagged here as only affecting Macbooks. Chris Fisher mentioned being affected on the Linux Action Show podcast, also not on a Macbook.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F22_bugs#GNOME_login_screen_doesn.27t_appear_on_certain_dual-GPU_Macbooks_after_installation

Fix is pretty simple thankfully.

A3th3r
Jul 27, 2013

success is a dream & achievements are the cream

ProfessorBooty posted:

I'm about to pull the trigger on building a new computer, which I haven't done since like ... 1998 or something? Either way, I'm going to need a motherboard, and after wrestling with UEFI before trying to dual boot on a laptop, I was wondering if anyone can recommend a motherboard brand or bios that makes dual booting slightly easier for a new system, or maybe that's not the right question to ask? :whitewater:

Because one of the tasks of this computer will be video encoding, I'm going to plan for a pretty beefy CPU (thinking an almost top-of-the-line i7 processor). Can someone help point me the right direction? Sorry I'm so non-specific.

Sorry I can't help you with that one.. i just use linux at home & windows at work :agesilaus:. Completely separate systems

ProfessorBooty
Jan 25, 2004

Amulet of the Dark

A3th3r posted:

Sorry I can't help you with that one.. i just use linux at home & windows at work :agesilaus:. Completely separate systems

I run Linux like 99% of the time at home, and I have a laptop and an old desktop that are 100% linux. Can you blame me for wanting to run PC games? Can you blame me for wanting to do real work on Linux? Is a man not entitled to the bits on his disk?

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

A3th3r posted:

Sorry I can't help you with that one.. i just use linux at home & windows at work :agesilaus:. Completely separate systems

Thanks for sharing.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

VostokProgram posted:

Is there a "right" way/best practice to get software that's newer than what's in the distribution's repository?
Sometimes you can install packages from a newer version of your distro without pulling in all newer packages. Debian and Ubuntu let you do this with apt pinning. However, if the newer pages have dependencies on core libraries, it might badger you into pulling in a bunch of unrelated new packages anyways.

Some distributions also run backport repos, which would be the same idea (pin newer versions of the packages you want from the backport repo), but are specifically built against core libraries in the latest stable release to avoid pulling in unrelated dependencies.

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






I'd get the source rpm for mono4 from f23 and rebuild it.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl
Somebody already does it for you

Odette
Mar 19, 2011

Having a weird network issue with lftp, and I'm a recent convert to Linux (Ubuntu 14.04 LTS).

I have access to a FTP server in Germany, and since I live in New Zealand ... latency is kind of an issue so I tend to grab stuff off it via segmented FTP in order to saturate my bandwidth.

In Windows, I use Internet Download Manager to download queued files; a single file at a time (8 segments per file).

When I try the same thing in Linux using lftp, it doesn't matter how many segments I throw at it. From the default 5, upwards to 50 ... speed caps out around 1/4 of what I can get in Windows.

Not sure what to look at from here. Any suggestions?

Odette fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jun 6, 2015

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Thanks for the help, everyone. In this case, using the external repository provided by Mono looks like the most convenient option, but I'll look into backporting for some other stuff I might want.

Hollow Talk posted:

Quality poster and linux savant nosl tried to mime to you that the only real solution is to use Arch Linux, for everything, forever.

And somewhat less facetious: Marinmo's link to the OBS works, since they build for Fedora. Another option would be the official mono repository from the mono project itself, which should keep you up-to-date without the need to trust a random person building packages: http://www.mono-project.com/docs/getting-started/install/linux/#centos-fedora-and-derivatives

That's technically option #3.5, since it's an external repository, but at least it is a first-person repository.

ExcessBLarg! posted:

Sometimes you can install packages from a newer version of your distro without pulling in all newer packages. Debian and Ubuntu let you do this with apt pinning. However, if the newer pages have dependencies on core libraries, it might badger you into pulling in a bunch of unrelated new packages anyways.

Some distributions also run backport repos, which would be the same idea (pin newer versions of the packages you want from the backport repo), but are specifically built against core libraries in the latest stable release to avoid pulling in unrelated dependencies.


spankmeister posted:

I'd get the source rpm for mono4 from f23 and rebuild it.


moron izzard
Nov 17, 2006

Grimey Drawer
I've not used linux in a bit, whats the easiest way to run some commands upon ubuntu 14.04 starting up and automatically logging in to an account (some xinput commands for setting up elo touch screen calibration stuffs)? I read Upstart should be used to run an sh script (the ubuntu wiki didn't recommend putting it in rc.local)

moron izzard fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jun 6, 2015

Vinigre
Feb 18, 2011

Prepare your bladder for imminent release!
I was messing around with settings trying to get my laptop to sleep if the lid was closed on battery, but not sleep if the lid was closed on AC. Whatever I tried didn't work, and now even after undoing what I did the drat thing won't sleep when I close the lid at all. Could someone help me troubleshoot this? I'm using GNOME on openSUSE tumbleweed.

I am fine with getting it to sleep when I close the lid regardless of being plugged in, since this is the working state I had it in before I started muddling. It would be nice if I could also get it to not sleep when on ac power.

Crack
Apr 10, 2009
Ugh I'm still confused after trying out multiple distros as to what I should be using. Fedora or Ubuntu? Arch or openSUSE? KDE or Gnome or another DE? Multiple versons of gnome and stuff too. I'm running kubuntu at the moment (it's a bit irritating I log in then immediately have to retype the pw to open the password wallet to connect to wifi), it looks a lot like windows to be quite honest but I'm sure there are customization options I'm not seeing. Honestly despite the thread's apparent dislike for Arch, from what I've seen when it's up and running you can customize it more than anything else, and you can install pretty much everything in it. Not sure I'm ready for jumping into the deepend with that though. I'd appreciate advice on what the current favorite is though rather than Arch arguments. I don't have much of an opinion of it, just basing what I said from a yt video.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Crack posted:

Ugh I'm still confused after trying out multiple distros as to what I should be using. Fedora or Ubuntu? Arch or openSUSE? KDE or Gnome or another DE? Multiple versons of gnome and stuff too. I'm running kubuntu at the moment (it's a bit irritating I log in then immediately have to retype the pw to open the password wallet to connect to wifi), it looks a lot like windows to be quite honest but I'm sure there are customization options I'm not seeing. Honestly despite the thread's apparent dislike for Arch, from what I've seen when it's up and running you can customize it more than anything else, and you can install pretty much everything in it. Not sure I'm ready for jumping into the deepend with that though. I'd appreciate advice on what the current favorite is though rather than Arch arguments. I don't have much of an opinion of it, just basing what I said from a yt video.

Use whatever distro you're interested in. But things like:

Crack posted:

I've seen when it's up and running you can customize it more than anything else, and you can install pretty much everything in it.
Are patently false and misleading. Every distro is basically equally customizable. Just that Arch users spend more time ricing. The AUR also has a lot of software, but Ubuntu has a wider version of "everything" than Arch.


Vinigre posted:

I was messing around with settings trying to get my laptop to sleep if the lid was closed on battery, but not sleep if the lid was closed on AC. Whatever I tried didn't work, and now even after undoing what I did the drat thing won't sleep when I close the lid at all. Could someone help me troubleshoot this? I'm using GNOME on openSUSE tumbleweed.

I am fine with getting it to sleep when I close the lid regardless of being plugged in, since this is the working state I had it in before I started muddling. It would be nice if I could also get it to not sleep when on ac power.

Are you doing this through GNOME power manager?

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

Crack posted:

Ugh I'm still confused after trying out multiple distros as to what I should be using. Fedora or Ubuntu? Arch or openSUSE? KDE or Gnome or another DE? Multiple versons of gnome and stuff too. I'm running kubuntu at the moment (it's a bit irritating I log in then immediately have to retype the pw to open the password wallet to connect to wifi), it looks a lot like windows to be quite honest but I'm sure there are customization options I'm not seeing. Honestly despite the thread's apparent dislike for Arch, from what I've seen when it's up and running you can customize it more than anything else, and you can install pretty much everything in it. Not sure I'm ready for jumping into the deepend with that though. I'd appreciate advice on what the current favorite is though rather than Arch arguments. I don't have much of an opinion of it, just basing what I said from a yt video.

Its not any more customisable that other distros, it just has effectively *no* defaults when you first install, so you're doing the work to make things reasonably functional.

I can't see a reason not to use gnome + fedora at the moment unless you have old slow hardware.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Crack posted:

Ugh I'm still confused after trying out multiple distros as to what I should be using. Fedora or Ubuntu? Arch or openSUSE? KDE or Gnome or another DE? Multiple versons of gnome and stuff too. I'm running kubuntu at the moment (it's a bit irritating I log in then immediately have to retype the pw to open the password wallet to connect to wifi), it looks a lot like windows to be quite honest but I'm sure there are customization options I'm not seeing. Honestly despite the thread's apparent dislike for Arch, from what I've seen when it's up and running you can customize it more than anything else, and you can install pretty much everything in it. Not sure I'm ready for jumping into the deepend with that though. I'd appreciate advice on what the current favorite is though rather than Arch arguments. I don't have much of an opinion of it, just basing what I said from a yt video.

I personally run OpenSUSE KDE on all my Linux installs - it's been my go-to for the last few years.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


I wonder what your opinion is on https://iuscommunity.org/pages/About.html evol

Disclaimer. I helped start it.

Vinigre
Feb 18, 2011

Prepare your bladder for imminent release!

evol262 posted:

Are you doing this through GNOME power manager?

Nope. I am on GNOME 3.16, and the power manager in the settings page won't let me configure whether or not closing the lid suspends. At first I went through the GNOME tweak tool and enabled the "don't suspend on lid close". This was ok, but I wanted this setting's state to change depending on having ac power. I then changed it back to disabled. I went hunting for something more specific in the dconf editor but couldn't find anything.

I then uncommented a line in "/etc/systemd/logind.conf": HandleLidSwitch=suspend, and I reset.
Now it just plain doesn't suspend when I close the lid. Even after recommenting the line and restarting, the problem persists.

Edit: Bonus data!
Restarted the laptop.
I logged into GNOME (X11), it didn't work, logged out and into GNOME with wayland, and it worked.
Restarted the laptop.
Logged into GNOME with wayland the first time and it didn't work.

Vinigre fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jun 6, 2015

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005
When people say "customizable" they usually mean the desktop lookandfeel, in which case you should run xfce, which runs perfectly fine on Fedora and Ubuntu (and probably just about every other linux flavor).

Crack
Apr 10, 2009
e: ^ Is this better than, for example, KWin?


What about smaller ones ie Qubes? What I really want to know is the major differences between them, because with the same DE they all look fairly similar to me. Obviously I know what differentiates Qubes, Arch, Tails and Puppy linux, but the big players, openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu? I've only ever really used Ubuntu, I used an older version of Fedora a while ago but "Security enhanced Linux" prevented me from installing my vpn (OK, I could probably have figured it out after some duckduckgoing but I was quite busy at the time). Other than that it's made by Red Hat so I kind of assume it's going to be a little enterprisy but maybe not. Ubuntu annoys me now on principle after the amazon stuff, and the disaster they decided to keep default as unity. And it does seem a little "babby's first linux" with the protections they put in to stop you wrecking it by accident. Also Ubuntu forums are full of advice on whatever issue I search for, ranging from plain bad to non relevant and maybe a nugget of gold. openSUSE in principle looks pretty fantastic, 100% open source etc.

Would I be missing out on anything using this? And why are some people saying gnome is the way to go, others KDE? Is the customizability the same? I want to make it look cool, with cubes like in Compiz or KWin, and setting keyboard commands to do whatever, and have some window transparency. My computer is a gaming rig but I've lost interest in gaming, so it can handle pretty much anything you can throw at it (other than the fact it gives a bunch of graphics errors when I start from sleep, need to enable hibernate I guess).

So, why do you use the distro / DE / Window manager you use? What made you decide to use them?

Vinigre
Feb 18, 2011

Prepare your bladder for imminent release!
Ok, so after some more experimentation to see what conditions cause the sleeping to work or not work, I've found the following:
1: The aforementioned line in the systemd etc is commented out
2: This is on a freshly rebooted system.

I log in, I wait a bit for things to get settled like dropbox, and I close the lid. I wait for about 2 minutes and nothing happens.
I open the lid and surf the web a bit.
I close the lid. The laptop then goes to sleep after anywhere between 2 and 30 seconds, but it sleeps.
Every subsequent lid-closing successfully triggers sleep. This persists until the system is reset again.

This, in addition to the info about logging out and in again above and reports on the internet of people having similar issues on Fedora and Arch, make me think this is probably a bug that should be reported somewhere.

Vinigre fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jun 6, 2015

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Crack posted:

So, why do you use the distro / DE / Window manager you use? What made you decide to use them?

I landed on openSUSE after years of running a number of different distros, really starting with Mandrake (now called Mandriva). I've somehow run more RPM-based distros than Debian-based ones, so that was familiar. Package management is straightforward and updates consistent. It also has been phenomenally stable, predictable, and user-friendly for me in general. Adding proprietary drivers and applications is easy, as is getting restricted codecs and other basic desktop components.

I went back to KDE after years of running Gnome 2.0 or XFCE because it seems like they have managed to improve the performance while still giving me all the bells and whistles I want. I have something of a traditional approach to desktops, and at a glance the main difference between when I have Linux running on this machine and when I have Windows 7 running is the desktop background is different and my overall color theme is green for openSUSE, blue for Windows. Otherwise they look very similar, although KDE is nicer (I love my wobbly windows).

For me, to borrow the old Apple slogan, KDE "just works." It does everything I want in my desktop, and behaves in ways I expect. I do very little customization, because I really don't feel the need to - most of the defaults are just fine the way they are. It's also nice to know that I can do a lot of tweaking if I desire to, it's just that I generally don't have that desire.

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!

Crack posted:

Distro preference questions



Gnome is more 'slick and polished' while kde is more feature rich and customisable but some would say bloated. It's down to personal preference.

I personally use 2 different linux distributions and use both kde and gnome. Fedora on my laptop and opensuse on my desktop.

Fedora is my current favourite, I really like gnome and feel it's a great environment for smaller screen space. 22 is really well polished and I'm excited where the distro goes over the next few versions.

So why don't I use it on my desktop? One reason, I have an amd GPU and at present getting the propriety drivers to work in fedora is a huge pain. On opensuse it's a one click install. Opensuse is a great distro, best kde experience I've found, although I do have a few complaints on how they do some things in th3 backend, it feels less unified and driven than fedora.

I'd suggest you just make live images of both and play around in each for an hour or so.

Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jun 7, 2015

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

jaegerx posted:

I wonder what your opinion is on https://iuscommunity.org/pages/About.html evol

Disclaimer. I helped start it.

This is one of my favorite things. I know that we now publish Software Collections, which serves kind of the same purpose, but I used IUS in production 4-5 years ago. I didn't know you helped start it. That's neat.

Python 2.6 wasn't packaged on RHEL5, and I was writing a major RHEL upgrade that had a few steps (start, snapshot filesystems, download packages, bootstrap yum/kernel/glibc/zlib etc from force installed RPMs from the new version of RHEL, let yum upgrade it, boot into the new version of RHEL, install our apps), and they wanted a status page which told them where each system scheduled for an upgrade that night was at. IUS made using pylons really easy, where it would have been a nightmare otherwise.

CaptainSarcastic posted:

I landed on openSUSE after years of running a number of different distros, really starting with Mandrake (now called Mandriva).
Mandriva finally died this year, which is kind of sad.

Crack posted:

e: ^ Is this better than, for example, KWin?
Preferences are preferences. I like i3. Is that better than KWin? Maybe. Is fluxbox better? Maybe. It depends what you like.

Crack posted:

What about smaller ones ie Qubes? What I really want to know is the major differences between them, because with the same DE they all look fairly similar to me. Obviously I know what differentiates Qubes, Arch, Tails and Puppy linux, but the big players, openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu? I've only ever really used Ubuntu, I used an older version of Fedora a while ago but "Security enhanced Linux" prevented me from installing my vpn (OK, I could probably have figured it out after some duckduckgoing but I was quite busy at the time). Other than that it's made by Red Hat so I kind of assume it's going to be a little enterprisy but maybe not. Ubuntu annoys me now on principle after the amazon stuff, and the disaster they decided to keep default as unity. And it does seem a little "babby's first linux" with the protections they put in to stop you wrecking it by accident. Also Ubuntu forums are full of advice on whatever issue I search for, ranging from plain bad to non relevant and maybe a nugget of gold. openSUSE in principle looks pretty fantastic, 100% open source etc.
Opensuse is less concerned with freedom than Fedora or Debian, if that's important to you.

You can just put selinux into permissive mode. But if you have problems with selinux, posting here can get you a long explanation of why it doesn't work and how to fix it. In general, many desktop users disable selinux anyway. Fedora/CentOS packages and tools work with selinux in enforcing mode, so creating your VPN with the distro tooling shouldn't have caused a problem, but there can be a lot of confusing bits with what context openvpn or vpnc or whatever is running in and whether it's allowed to a read a file in whatever place you put it that it isn't expecting, etc.

Fedora is upstream for RHEL, broadly. It's not any more "enterprise-y" than anything else. RHEL is honestly not as "enterprise-y" as the name implies. It's only "enterprise" because we support it long enough, keep interfaces (ABI/API) stable long enough, and backport hardware support long enough for enterprises (which are slow to move to anything) to actually standardize on RHEL $version for a couple of years.

Qubes and Tails are kind of single-purpose. But reading about the philosophies behind distros can tell you a lot.

Crack posted:

Would I be missing out on anything using this? And why are some people saying gnome is the way to go, others KDE? Is the customizability the same? I want to make it look cool, with cubes like in Compiz or KWin, and setting keyboard commands to do whatever, and have some window transparency. My computer is a gaming rig but I've lost interest in gaming, so it can handle pretty much anything you can throw at it (other than the fact it gives a bunch of graphics errors when I start from sleep, need to enable hibernate I guess).
Integrated graphics can handle all of this stuff, and don't give a bunch of errors resuming from hibernate/etc. If you're interested in all of that (broadly, this is pejoratively called "ricing"), you probably want to use a super customized FVWM or fluxbox or something. Unless you want a tiling window manager. Then it'd be xmonad, i3, awesome, or maybe dwm.


I'm gonna wait a day or so and hope Suspicious Dish responds.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005
Current Gnome infuriates me for the same reasons Server 2012's interface infuriate me. XFCE defaults to a lot of the same dumb poo poo that Gnome does now, but XFCE will let me change every little detail of it to get it back to what I want it to, and Gnome won't.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

evol262 posted:

Fedora is upstream for RHEL, broadly. It's not any more "enterprise-y" than anything else. RHEL is honestly not as "enterprise-y" as the name implies.

Don't sell yourselves too short. It's as or more "enterprise-y" than most flavors of linux. We'd still be on it if I had my druthers, but I was overruled.

Longinus00
Dec 29, 2005
Ur-Quan

Crack posted:

e: ^ Is this better than, for example, KWin?


What about smaller ones ie Qubes? What I really want to know is the major differences between them, because with the same DE they all look fairly similar to me. Obviously I know what differentiates Qubes, Arch, Tails and Puppy linux, but the big players, openSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu? I've only ever really used Ubuntu, I used an older version of Fedora a while ago but "Security enhanced Linux" prevented me from installing my vpn (OK, I could probably have figured it out after some duckduckgoing but I was quite busy at the time). Other than that it's made by Red Hat so I kind of assume it's going to be a little enterprisy but maybe not. Ubuntu annoys me now on principle after the amazon stuff, and the disaster they decided to keep default as unity. And it does seem a little "babby's first linux" with the protections they put in to stop you wrecking it by accident. Also Ubuntu forums are full of advice on whatever issue I search for, ranging from plain bad to non relevant and maybe a nugget of gold. openSUSE in principle looks pretty fantastic, 100% open source etc.

Would I be missing out on anything using this? And why are some people saying gnome is the way to go, others KDE? Is the customizability the same? I want to make it look cool, with cubes like in Compiz or KWin, and setting keyboard commands to do whatever, and have some window transparency. My computer is a gaming rig but I've lost interest in gaming, so it can handle pretty much anything you can throw at it (other than the fact it gives a bunch of graphics errors when I start from sleep, need to enable hibernate I guess).

So, why do you use the distro / DE / Window manager you use? What made you decide to use them?

I use xfce on ubuntu (xubuntu actually) and I use it because I've been running it for a while now, I am pretty used to it and I see no compelling reason to change. I use linux to get my work done (programming) and if I have to spend too much time messing with my distro just to be productive I'd buy a macbook like almost all my coworkers have done.

Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell

TBQH, whether it's Windows or whatever linux window manager...I spend like 99% of my time in my apps, not moving windows around or whatever, so the window manager doesn't really bother me much one way or the other unless it's really egregious.

Like, when people complain about Unity on Ubuntu, I often see their point, but I just can't be assed to care...it's such a hugely minor part of my computing time.

OnymousCoward
Feb 19, 2014
I spend my time in terminal windows 90% of the time, so the wm isn't that important to me so long as it stays the gently caress out of the way.

Personal choice, openbox. It manages windows.

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

Crack posted:

Distro chat

I use openSUSE Tumbleweed (development/rolling release) with i3wm and a bunch of KDE as userland programmes (Okular, Krusader etc.). It's pretty unproblematic despite running on a Macbook Air, but I compile the WLAN drivers and backlight driver from source because it's easier than relying on random packagers who might or might not keep things up-to-date.

evol262 posted:

Opensuse is less concerned with freedom than Fedora or Debian, if that's important to you.

Are you thinking of anything specific here? Drivers etc.? Just curious, because legal seems to regularly get their knickers in a twist about licenses etc., and they went through quite some installments and pain to build for example Chromium on the OBS with only free codecs.

Joe Chip
Jan 4, 2014

evol262 posted:

Fedora is upstream for RHEL, broadly. It's not any more "enterprise-y" than anything else. RHEL is honestly not as "enterprise-y" as the name implies. It's only "enterprise" because we support it long enough, keep interfaces (ABI/API) stable long enough, and backport hardware support long enough for enterprises (which are slow to move to anything) to actually standardize on RHEL $version for a couple of years.

This is why I use CentOS on my personal computers. I want my system to work exactly the same for the lifetime of the hardware. I don't want to change my workflow or deal with new bugs every 6 months or even 2 years, but I'm willing to consider it every 5 years. Even then, RHEL has been remarkably consistent version to version from a user interface standpoint.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Hollow Talk posted:

Are you thinking of anything specific here? Drivers etc.? Just curious, because legal seems to regularly get their knickers in a twist about licenses etc., and they went through quite some installments and pain to build for example Chromium on the OBS with only free codecs.

In general, it's fair to say that Debian is libre enough to have non-free specifiers, and the whole iceweasel thing says it all. Fedora is mostly concerned with freedom because Red Hat does not want to be sued over codecs/etc, and non-US companies have somewhat more leeway than we do.

Licenses matter to most distros. Debian cares more about distros. Fedora cares about not shipping static binaries and packages with build trees that duplicate libraries (Spotify, chromium, rust). There's a big movement against the second one as being antiquated. But we'll probably never have a one-click installer for binary drivers. Suse is a good balance of freedom and usability.

fatherdog posted:

Don't sell yourselves too short. It's as or more "enterprise-y" than most flavors of linux. We'd still be on it if I had my druthers, but I was overruled.

I just meant that people hear it and think XML and horrible "wizards" and stuff, when it's basically just forking Fedora and giving the fork a long release cycle. The support is good, obviously, but...

evol262 fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jun 7, 2015

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



evol262 posted:

Mandriva finally died this year, which is kind of sad.

I was unaware that this had happened, and it does give me a little pang. The last time I actually installed it on anything was sometime in 2010, and didn't keep it installed for very long, but have fond memories of the distro - I think my first Mandrake install would've been in 2002.

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

CaptainSarcastic posted:

For me, to borrow the old Apple slogan, KDE "just works." It does everything I want in my desktop, and behaves in ways I expect. I do very little customization, because I really don't feel the need to - most of the defaults are just fine the way they are. It's also nice to know that I can do a lot of tweaking if I desire to, it's just that I generally don't have that desire.

Wow, you appear to have the exact opposite opinion of KDE than I do in all aspects.

Underlying tech is fine, but the defaults are hideous, way too many features implemented by default (incomprehensible, hard to remove pill button anyone?) , and there is no decision making or taste employed in any aspect - thousands of options in different sections, making it complicated to just apply a theme, or replicate a sensible config should you arrive at one.

Maybe OpenSuse makes it better than when I've used it previously on Arch.

FWT THE CUTTER
Oct 16, 2007

weed

wooger posted:

Underlying tech is fine, but the defaults are hideous, way too many features implemented by default (incomprehensible, hard to remove pill button anyone?) , and there is no decision making or taste employed in any aspect - thousands of options in different sections, making it complicated to just apply a theme, or replicate a sensible config should you arrive at one.

Pill button :confused:

The defaults in Plasma 5 are fine imo but, yeah, systemsettings is a mess.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



wooger posted:

Wow, you appear to have the exact opposite opinion of KDE than I do in all aspects.

Underlying tech is fine, but the defaults are hideous, way too many features implemented by default (incomprehensible, hard to remove pill button anyone?) , and there is no decision making or taste employed in any aspect - thousands of options in different sections, making it complicated to just apply a theme, or replicate a sensible config should you arrive at one.

Maybe OpenSuse makes it better than when I've used it previously on Arch.

:shrug: Like I said, it works for me. I find the settings easy enough to navigate, and don't make that many changes from the defaults (click behavior, some window shading and transparency adjustments, and such). I pretty much ignore the cashew unless something spurs me to remove it, and I just did from this machine since the idea came up. On my KDE installs, and particularly since openSUSE 12.3, I really haven't had to mess with much.

kode54
Nov 26, 2007

aka kuroshi
Fun Shoe
For some insane reason, I want to try out Linux on my MacBook Pro, mainly to see if some OpenGL things work better through wine than with the Windows drivers. Only to have an Internet connection, I need something that comes bundled with the broadcom-wl drivers. I do not have a Thunderbolt Ethernet adapter handy.

Deeters
Aug 21, 2007


I tried to dual boot Win7 and Lubuntu onto my old netbook, and I'm thinking I screwed up. I made a Live USB installer. I went through the installer, partitioned out half the drive for each OS (with a few gigs for swap and a partition that lenovo had as a backup). When it got to the end it told me to restart, so I did, and it just booted back to the GRUB menu with the options of Try without installing, Install Lubuntu, etc. If I restart and catch the BIOS menu, I can change the boot priority to not boot from the USB stick, but then nothing starts after BIOS.

Did I miss something or should I just reinstall Windows and try again from the beginning?

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

evol262 posted:

Mandriva finally died this year, which is kind of sad.
Most of the core development team left to fork Mageia back in 2011, which is pretty much why Mandriva fell apart and died. Mageia is still alive and kicking at #7 on DistroWatch.

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Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

kode54 posted:

For some insane reason, I want to try out Linux on my MacBook Pro, mainly to see if some OpenGL things work better through wine than with the Windows drivers. Only to have an Internet connection, I need something that comes bundled with the broadcom-wl drivers. I do not have a Thunderbolt Ethernet adapter handy.

As far as I can tell, if a distro ships the broadcom-wl drivers, it will generally do so as an extra package. Your best option would probably be to put a live distribution on a USB stick with persistence enabled, so that you can either download/install the broadcom driver from a repository in live mode (if you have another computer), or you can compile from source, possibly in a chroot environment. Either way, it would probably be easiest to not attempt a net install, but get a system running and worry about updating or extending later on. This should work with any distribution that offers live install media (I presume all of them do). Alternatively, you can also build your own for example via https://susestudio.com/.

Just as a general thing: Depending on how old or new your MacBook Pro is (does it have a high-DPI/Retina screen?), performance and display might or might not work well. If it is new enough, you will also need a custom backlight driver, because the standard Intel backlight has problems with sleep/resume. For booting itself, is this an EFI machine? If so, I would recommend rEFInd as a boot manager for dual-booting, in case you want to keep OS X.

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