|
Vanilla Mint Ice posted:I hope no one else finds out about all the retainers and advisors that he burnt to death before yeah but they weren't his own drat family you stupid moron
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 09:42 |
|
|
Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Well your fanfic version of stannis maybe You mean the Stannis that tells them to pray harder instead of burning unbelievers?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
oatgan posted:Stannis would let his men starve before he burned the daughter he has always refused to give up on I think if Davos were around when Melisandre convinces Stannis he could talk Stannis out of it. There's a duality to Stannis, but we're late in the series now and the at-all-costs version that Melisandre sees is going to win out over the justice-above-all version Davos sees. Not to mention that if he doesn't burn Shireen she dies of starvation anyway. They could've made the choice harder by making it so the army could make it back to Castle Black for the Winter but has no hope of taking Winterfell without magic, that way it'd be explicitly Stannis choosing to burn Shireen rather than lose the war. Instead it's burn Shireen or freeze to death - I guess Stannis could've chosen to burn himself (King's blood!) so his army and Shireen could escape?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:29
|
|
|
Man how do the great houses and families of westeros follow this man who ordered one of his highest knight to rape and kill a defenseless woman and her kids The people will never stand for it
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:29
|
|
|
El Hefe posted:yeah but they weren't his own drat family you stupid moron A personal attack on me because of your starry eye version of Stannis Baratheon, the same Stannis Baratheon who personally magick'd his own flesh and blood brother to death, came crumpling down My, my my my, you can say the tempers are flaring up in this thread
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:30
|
|
|
Ape Gone Insane posted:Episode 10 preview: http://streamable.com/lerl So apparently Theon lost part of his arc to Sansa, to neither one's benefit. Jesus, how did they gently caress up the good parts of AFFC and ADWD
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:30
|
|
|
Genetic squares posted:You mean the Stannis that tells them to pray harder instead of burning unbelievers? No not that one, the one that was totally willing to let his entire garrison at storms end starve to death before they did anything like eat the dead or surrender
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:31
|
|
|
El Hefe posted:its not bad that Shireen dies, or even that Melisandre burns her but that Stannis actually consents and lets Mel burn her right in front of him, its so out of character both in the books and show Yep. In the books, Melisandre is going to sacrifice Shireen but the important thing is that she'll do it while Stannis is not there. The plot point is not the problem, it's Stannis' involvement in it. It's another in a long line of show changes where they have chosen to emphasize certain aspects of Stannis' character to make him more villainous while dialing back on his sympathetic or admirable traits. In the books, he only burns Alester Florent (tried to sell Shireen to the Lannisters), "Mance", and the cannibals (men who murdered others during the March to Winterfell) and he held out on burning Edric until all three kings were dead (and even then, he told Melisandre she would die "by inches" if it failed). In the show, he burns everyone and was eager to burn Gendry after only one king's death. In the books, Stannis pardons Davos after he gives him the "cart before the horse" speech. In the show, Stannis was going to still going to kill Davos until Melisandre told him not to. Now he's sacrificing his heir, whereas in the books he told Justin Massey that he should crown Shireen if he dies. It's ridiculous. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:32
|
|
|
oatgan posted:No not that one, the one that was totally willing to let his entire garrison at storms end starve to death before they did anything like eat the dead or surrender Oh, the stannis that put duty above all and the order given to him instead of taking the easy way out of the war for his own personal benefit That stannis
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
oatgan posted:No not that one, the one that was totally willing to let his entire garrison at storms end starve to death before they did anything rash like eat the dead or surrender That was also in line with his duty, which was "hold Storm's End as long as possible". Eating their own dead is the path to madness and the next step is cannibalism of the living so stopping that is both just and practical. This is a case where duty (to the realm's safety) and justice (to his family) are at odds.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
Vanilla Mint Ice posted:A personal attack on me because of your starry eye version of Stannis Baratheon, the same Stannis Baratheon who personally magick'd his own flesh and blood brother to death, came crumpling down hurf durf
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
So did he burn Shireen to abate the snowstorm? Lame.El Hefe posted:yeah but they weren't his own drat family you stupid moron How could you forget, uh, Alester Florent
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
e: nvm
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:36
|
|
|
oatgan posted:IIFTT is the only good poster in this thread and with him gone I would like to elect Midnight City as the hardnosed leader we need to rally the base and get us through this trying time of bad shows and no books. Midnight City's first term will last forever. My first official duty would be to make Irish Joe my steward You can come after me all you want but... Ape Gone Insane posted:Episode 10 preview: http://streamable.com/lerl Not seen: immediately after drawing his sword Stannis trips and impales himself
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:37
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:Yep. In the books, Melisandre is going to sacrifice Shireen but the important thing is that she'll do it while Stannis is not there. The plot point is the problem, it's Stannis' involvement in it. It's another in a long line of show changes where they have chosen to emphasize certain aspects of Stannis' character to make him more villainous while dialing back on his sympathetic or admirable traits. In the books, he only burns Alester Florent (tried to sell Shireen to the Lannisters), "Mance", and the cannibals (men who murdered others during the March to Winterfell) and he held out on burning Edric until all three kings were dead (and even then, he told Melisandre she would die "by inches" if it failed). In the show, he burns everyone and was eager to burn Gendry after only one king's death. In the books, Stannis pardons Davos after he gives him the "cart before the horse" speech. In the show, Stannis was going to still going to kill Davos until Melisandre told him not to. Now he's sacrificing his heir, whereas in the books he told Justin Massey that he should crown Shireen if he dies. It's ridiculous. While you're right that Stannis has been darker and more willing to burn and execute in the show, he still has the same core conflict of how much he's willing to do to become king. You might be setting yourself up a bit, being so sure Stannis won't be complicit with Shireen's burning in the books. True, it does look like Melisandre's going to burn her to revive Snow, but I'd be careful about speculating that far in advance especially in light of the show's example. Regardless, that'd still have the desired effect of Stannis feeling like his position as hero's been usurped despite all the awful things he's done and driving him crazy and I'd say the show would be stronger than the books for making Stannis do the most awful things himself rather than have them done behind his back. Edit: that preview for the finale's pretty exciting, particularly the promise of the siege of Winterfell. I wonder if they're going to assault the castle in the last episode? I wouldn't think there'd be time, especially with other headline events like Jon's stabbing going on. Maybe he's laying siege and the actual battle will be at the start of the next season. Dolash fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jun 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:38
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:Yep. In the books, Melisandre is going to sacrifice Shireen but the important thing is that she'll do it while Stannis is not there. [...] It's ridiculous. If you want cute idealism in your character, be a Dany fan.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:38
|
|
|
Book Stannis: If I die, put Shireen on the throne. Show Stannis: Oops, forgot to protect my food, better kill my daughter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
Dolash posted:While you're right that Stannis has been darker and more willing to burn and execute in the show, he still has the same core conflict of how much he's willing to do to become king. You might be setting yourself up a bit, being so sure Stannis won't be complicit with Shireen's burning in the books. True, it does look like Melisandre's going to burn her to revive Snow, but I'd be careful about speculating that far in advance especially in light of the show's example. Regardless, that'd still have the desired effect of Stannis feeling like his position as hero's been usurped despite all the awful things he's done and driving him crazy and I'd say the show would be stronger than the books for making Stannis do the most awful things himself rather than have them done behind his back. except Mel shouldnt need to burn anyone to revive Jon unless she's a shittier red priest than Thoros...
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:Yep. In the books, Melisandre is going to sacrifice Shireen but the important thing is that she'll do it while Stannis is not there. The plot point is the problem, it's Stannis' involvement in it. It's another in a long line of show changes where they have chosen to emphasize certain aspects of Stannis' character to make him more villainous while dialing back on his sympathetic or admirable traits. In the books, he only burns Alester Florent (tried to sell Shireen to the Lannisters), "Mance", and the cannibals (men who murdered others during the March to Winterfell) and he held out on burning Edric until all three kings were dead (and even then, he told Melisandre she would die "by inches" if it failed). In the show, he burns everyone and was eager to burn Gendry after only one king's death. In the books, Stannis pardons Davos after he gives him the "cart before the horse" speech. In the show, Stannis was going to still going to kill Davos until Melisandre told him not to. Now he's sacrificing his heir, whereas in the books he told Justin Massey that he should crown Shireen if he dies. It's ridiculous. It's weird because in the books Stannis doesn't really show any kind of love to his daughter. She's useful as an heir but there are no scenes where Stannis professes his love for her or defends her from Selyse. You might say we're limited by the POV structure but that isn't a good argument. So D&D made him care about deeply about her...for this scene.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
Midnight City posted:My firs official duty would be to make Irish Joe my steward 
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
El Hefe posted:except Mel shouldnt need to burn anyone to revive Jon Maybe sacrificing someone to revive a person means the revived person won't be a half-rotted zombie with black spots in their memory. And if Jon is TPWWP, then maybe it requires a bit more than praying to bring him back. Ague Proof posted:It's weird because in the books Stannis doesn't really show any kind of love to his daughter. She's useful as an heir but there are no scenes where Stannis professes his love for her or defends her from Selyse. You might say we're limited by the POV structure but that isn't a good argument. This is the only problem I have with it right here. It's lazy. They humanized the hell out of Stannis in just this season, only to build up for this scene that doesn't even make sense in terms of his characterization in the books or the show. On the other hand, the scene where Davos eventually confronts Stannis and Mel over Shireen's sacrifice is just going to be wonderful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
meristem posted:No, it would be ridiculous to take the decision out of Stannis' hands to make him cutesey, avoid having him make the hard choice and preserve his reputation while casting Mel as the villain. It's not about preserving his reputation. He risked keeping Shireen in Dragonstone while he fought to cure her rather than send her to Valyria, which could be called the "greater good". His stubbornness in the face of impossible odds is a cornerstone of his character. But now he flip flops on burning his daughter because things have taken the turn for the worse. I could understand being tempted by the conga line of misfortune but it seems far more logically consistent if Selyse, the one who has a specific distaste for Shireen, would be the one to cave to Melisandre and orchestrate Shireen's sacrifice behind Stannis' back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:48
|
|
|
^^^^Why bother burning Shireen at all, narratively, if Stannis isn't the one to do it? It doesn't have the same impact on his character if when given the ultimate choice between the realm or his family, someone else picks the realm for him. There's a gulf of difference between choosing to risk his own life by keeping his daughter from Valyria and choosing to spare his daughter but having to give up on being king and Azor Ahai. Going to bring up the parallel to Azor Ahai quenching his sword in his lover, Stannis has to make a commensurate sacrifice then find out his destiny's been stolen. nooneofconsequence posted:Book Stannis: If I die, put Shireen on the throne. If book Stannis wouldn't burn Shireen to save his campaign against Winterfell, he's a weaker character than the show version - both narratively and in terms of will. It's not inconsistent for Stannis to love Shireen and want her to sit the throne after him but still sacrifice her if the alternative is he loses the throne (or if they all die, I guess, but that's a much weaker choice). Dolash fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
Rap Record Hoarder posted:Maybe sacrificing someone to revive a person means the revived person won't be a half-rotted zombie with black spots in their memory. And if Jon is TPWWP, then maybe it requires a bit more than praying to bring him back. yeah or maybe you're just making poo poo up that has never been seen in either books or show
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
The timestamps on the screenshots are odd- if dany flies around 12 mins and shireen burns around 35 mins I wonder what happens at 50.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
El Hefe posted:yeah or maybe you're just making poo poo up that has never been seen in either books or show Maybe, but what is a Game of Thrones thread without baseless speculation to kill time between hatewatching episodes each week
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
a cop posted:The timestamps on the screenshots are odd- if dany flies around 12 mins and shireen burns around 35 mins I wonder what happens at 50. Ramsay walks across water to Essos where he meets Drogon and punches him in the face
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:53
|
|
|
Ape Gone Insane posted:Episode 10 preview: http://streamable.com/lerl lerl
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
Why walk when he could just use littlefinger's teleporter
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:55
|
|
|
a cop posted:The timestamps on the screenshots are odd- if dany flies around 12 mins and shireen burns around 35 mins I wonder what happens at 50. I was assuming the timer was how-many-minutes-remaining. Dany flying with 10 minutes left could make sense, if the credits are long as gently caress and maybe there's a quick segment of Cersei Vs Goliath Nun first.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:55
|
|
|
There's no explanation or realistic possible justification why this or any version of Stannis would ever consent to burning his daughter. He'd do a million other horrible and stupid things but he'd never do that and if the show actually is making that happen it's the stupidest thing they've done so far.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:56
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:I was assuming the timer was how-many-minutes-remaining. Dany flying with 10 minutes left could make sense, if the credits are long as gently caress and maybe there's a quick segment of Cersei Vs Goliath Nun first. Ok yeah that would make sense.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:56
|
|
|
Dolash posted:^^^^Why bother burning Shireen at all, narratively, if Stannis isn't the one to do it? It doesn't have the same impact on his character if when given the ultimate choice between the realm or his family, someone else picks the realm for him. There's a gulf of difference between choosing to risk his own life by keeping his daughter from Valyria and choosing to spare his daughter but having to give up on being king and Azor Ahai. My understanding is that it will represent Melisandre's break from Stannis to Jon. Stannis is going to be cast aside by everyone and lose everything despite doing the right thing. The profound injustice of it all will be what breaks him and triggers his betrayal of humanity to the Others.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:57
|
|
|
They will burn Shirren and then bring her back to life, duh.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:57
|
|
|
Ape Gone Insane posted:Episode 10 preview: http://streamable.com/lerl So killing his own daughter doesn't even grant him victory, it just stops the storm. Nice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:57
|
|
|
a cop posted:Ok yeah that would make sense. What doesn't make sense is that Tyrion is supposed to kill a few harpies. That means he at least rivals Barristan Selmy in fighting skills.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:58
|
|
|
RCarr posted:They will burn Shirren and then bring her back to life, duh. They're just going to bring everyone back to life by the end of this show, complete with a Star Wars-esque parade and fireworks while beheaded Ned Stark dances by the fire. nooneofconsequence posted:So killing his own daughter doesn't even grant him victory, it just stops the storm. Nice. Jokes on him. If he had just checked the weather forecast he'd have seen the storm was going to clear anyways.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 18:59
|
|
|
Load Shireen into one of these bad daddies and they can abate all the storms they want. This was heavily hinted at in book 1 when they reference Stannis liking a place called "Storm's End", btw.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
InFlames235 posted:They're just going to bring everyone back to life by the end of this show, complete with a Star Wars-esque parade and fireworks while beheaded Ned Stark dances by the fire. Every great story should end with Yub Nub. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 19:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 09:42 |
|
|
InFlames235 posted:They're just going to bring everyone back to life by the end of this show, complete with a Star Wars-esque parade and fireworks while beheaded Ned Stark dances by the fire. Will the George Bush head be by his side?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 19:02
|
|