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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25206551/robert-upshaw-flagged-at-combine-for-heart-issue-has-suspended-workouts Robert Upshaw has a heart condition
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Jun 7, 2015 22:45
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As for any a good post player in today's NBA is useful... Someone who can score efficiently enough in the low post to draw double teams and then is able to make the right pass out of the double will cause any defense to scramble.
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Jun 7, 2015 23:22
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So as someone who doesn't really watch NCAA, how do KAT and Okafor compare with Noel and Embiid (ignoring injury history) both offensively and defensively? I've heard a range of opinions, but mostly that even when healthy, Embiid would be 3rd in this draft. Is that true?
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Jun 7, 2015 23:32
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aBagorn posted:So as someone who doesn't really watch NCAA, how do KAT and Okafor compare with Noel and Embiid (ignoring injury history) both offensively and defensively? Okafor and Towns are definitely better prospects than Noel and Embiid. Wether embiid would be third in this draft is hard to say because it defends on how much you like the Russel and Mudiay.
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Jun 7, 2015 23:38
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aBagorn posted:So as someone who doesn't really watch NCAA, how do KAT and Okafor compare with Noel and Embiid (ignoring injury history) both offensively and defensively?
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Jun 7, 2015 23:42
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aBagorn posted:So as someone who doesn't really watch NCAA, how do KAT and Okafor compare with Noel and Embiid (ignoring injury history) both offensively and defensively? Paul Zuvella posted:Okafor and Towns are definitely better prospects than Noel and Embiid. Wether embiid would be third in this draft is hard to say because it defends on how much you like the Russel and Mudiay. Depending on whether or not you're factoring in potential health risks, Embiid would be first in a hypothetical draft; he has the best combination of offense and defense of any of the 4. The only issue to consider would be the risk related to his foot injury. edit: clarity Redgrendel2001 fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 7, 2015 23:43
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I think Okafor and Towns have a slight advantage over Noel and Embiid respectively as they are both currently capable of playing basketball on the same day as the draft.
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Jun 7, 2015 23:44
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aBagorn posted:So as someone who doesn't really watch NCAA, how do KAT and Okafor compare with Noel and Embiid (ignoring injury history) both offensively and defensively? Noel is a skinny weakside shot blocker ground covering guy, think like Larry Sanders. Embiid has a tantilizing combination of skill and potential on offense and defense, people were comparing his potential to Hakeem. He's the best prospect of the four, by far. Okafor is a post up big and rebounder, not much of a defender, just a really big scorer. He's potentially better Al Jefferson, a more willing passer, and a better scorer. Towns is a defender with great range, and can face up on offense potentially. People have compared him to Andrew Bogut, pre arm injuries. He could possibly be the ideal big for a contemporary NBA team. They're not really comparable guys. Towns might be a mobile defender like Nerlens, but Nerlens's mobility is incredible, and Nerlens is a lot skinnier and weaker. Nerlens has no real offensive game to speak of, Towns does, and is also a better rebounder. Okafor is the once in a generation post up guy. Embiid and Wiggins are going to be some of the best players of their generation, barring injury.
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Jun 8, 2015 00:31
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embiid would go number 1 just on his twitter game alone
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Jun 8, 2015 00:33
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aBagorn posted:So as someone who doesn't really watch NCAA, how do KAT and Okafor compare with Noel and Embiid (ignoring injury history) both offensively and defensively? KAT will come in and immediately be one of the best defenders/rebounders in the league. His offensive skill set is limited at this point, but it's not terrible (like Noel's was when he was draft) and he showed significant improvement over the course of Kentucky's season. Okafor is one of the best offensive bigs to enter the draft in decades; he has soft hands, great balance, and an advanced set of post moves. His defense is pretty bad, but people think lot of the issues are solveable and that he could become at least an average defensive center. His rebounding, while not terrible, is a bit underwhelming for someone so big (7', 270 lbs). Embiid is an incredible player on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Offensively on par with Okafor and defensively on par with Noel/KAT. He has had some injuries, however, that present long term risk. Definitely the biggest risk of the 4 players, but also the highest ceiling. Noel has already established himself as one of the best defensive big men in the league; god level hands, preternatural timing on his shot block attempts, and great rebounding. Was originally rail thin and got pushed around in the post, but he was up to 225-230 by the end of the season. Possibly the best all around defender of the 4 players due to his mobility and hand-eye coordination (note: this is very very very arguable considering how good KAT/Embiid could be defensively and the fact that they're both much bigger than Noel.) His offensive game is far and away the worst of the 4 players, but similar to KAT's, it showed improvement over the course of the season. I'd say his ceiling is a tiny bit lower than the other 3. edit: Dammit Dejan. editedit: As Dejan pointed out and I ignored, KAT has shown that he has a pretty decent mid-range game. So I probably undersold his offense a bit. Redgrendel2001 fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 00:37
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Cool posts, goons. I guess I had heard all this hype about this year's crop of bigs that I was talking myself down on Embiid a little. Thanks for the reassurance. Can't wait for summer ball!
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Jun 8, 2015 00:58
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One quibble with something Dejan said; I do disagree with classifying Noel as a weakside blocker. He's as much of a pure, in the paint, anchor type of defensive center as Gobert/Jordan. And one last Noel point; he is the worst of the 4 players in terms of offense, but he has developed a few nice skills. His ability to receive lobs is very very very good and he has a nice ability to look for the offensive rebound and finish on put back dunks. He is developing a turn around hook shot that he uses from 5-10 feet; he also uses his size/length to his advantage in receiving the ball 10-15 feet away from the basket putting on the floor once or twice to drive in for the lay up. He also doesn't have the free throw issue that some other defensive centers like Jordan have; he shot 61% for the season and I think he shot ~ %70 after the All Star break. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWi5msP_ZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJTCq7p-1os
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Jun 8, 2015 01:48
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Noel's game improved significantly once MCW was traded and Ish Smith was running the offense imo Ish loving Smth
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Jun 8, 2015 02:24
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DOOP posted:Noel's game improved significantly once MCW was traded and Ish Smith was running the offense imo To be fair to Ish Smith his two superlative qualities are penetrating to the hoop and throwing up lobs; given how many of Noel's made shots are lobs I'm not surprised that he's happy  edit: draftstuff RealGM has their draft simulator up. It's not randomized, slot machine style like ESPNs lottery simulator was. You manually choose the picks yourself, you can trade picks, and you can annotate them. Not super important, but useful if you're playing around with picks/trades and you need something to keep track of everything. http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator Redgrendel2001 fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 02:33
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Metapod posted:okafor is really good in the post Yeah he was
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Jun 8, 2015 02:35
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Redgrendel2001 posted:Depending on whether or not you're factoring in potential health risks, Embiid would be first in a hypothetical draft; he has the best combination of offense and defense of any of the 4. The only issue to consider would be the risk related to his foot injury. I think Towns is at worst even with him. Embiid was not on the level of Okafor offensively, Jesus.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:37
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MourningView posted:I think Towns is at worst even with him. Embiid and Towns are as close to a coin toss as possible; safer choice is definitely Towns at this point though so I see your point. Claiming that Okafor is better than Embiid offensively is realllllllly debatable though. The injuries stopped him from having the college resume and tourney exposure that Okafor did, but he showed the same skill set. Arguing that Okafor is better than Embiid on offense isn't ridiculous, but arguing that he demonstrably better than him is a bit much.
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Jun 8, 2015 02:48
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This is what I'm learning about draft stories: Fanbase 2 wants player A) that Fanbase 1 will probably pick. NBA.com or a site like that posts a story, or obvious agent fueled blog speculates "Fanbase 1 should look at player B." Fanbase 2's blogs get full of "Rumblings Fabase 2 is picking player B This seems almost universal for the top ten picks or so.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:02
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Okafor being a better offensive player than Embiid isn't even an argument in the first place. Honestly I get a boner over Embiid because he COULD be Okafor offensively, while being Noel defensively. But he is not there yet and will probably never be healthy anyway.
Hand Row fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 03:48
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I can see Lakers toying with the Sixers saying they'd take Russell to see if they could shake anything extra out of them.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:51
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WhyteRyce posted:I can see Lakers toying with the Sixers saying they'd take Russell to see if they could shake anything extra out of them. And I could see the Sixers saying "Go gently caress yourself!" considering that Okafor and Mudiay will be there.
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Jun 8, 2015 03:52
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Redgrendel2001 posted:And I could see the Sixers saying "Go gently caress yourself!" considering that Okafor and Mudiay will be there. Would they want Okafor if they already have Noel and Embiid and Saric? You could always pick him anyway and stash but you'll take a hit on value somewhere And would Philly want another PG that can't shoot?
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Jun 8, 2015 04:01
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WhyteRyce posted:I can see Lakers toying with the Sixers saying they'd take Russell to see if they could shake anything extra out of them. Okay fine, we'll give you five 2nd round picks to swap places
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Jun 8, 2015 04:01
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WhyteRyce posted:Would they want Okafor if they already have Noel and Embiid and Saric? You could always pick him anyway and stash but you'll take a hit on value somewhere Because other people want Okafor and while Mudiay has flaws he's a top 5 pick for many reasons other than shooting? I'd prefer Russell to Mudiay, but it's definitely not bad if it's Mudiay.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:10
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Redgrendel2001 posted:Because other people want Okafor and while Mudiay has flaws he's a top 5 pick for many reasons other than shooting? I'd prefer Russell to Mudiay, but it's definitely not bad if it's Mudiay. Other people want Okafor but do you want to trade down when you've already got billions of picks and probably want a really, really good player over a couple of nice players WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 04:14
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WhyteRyce posted:Other people want Okafor but do you want to trade down when you've already got billions of picks and probably want a really, really good player over a couple of nice players That's also the reason why they probably would laugh at the Lakers and be fine with players like Hezonja and more picks. And why wouldn't the Sixers take Okafor and play a big three @25-30 minutes a game; it's not ideal, but it's not a ridiculous option especially considering that management has job security, it's insurance for Embiid's foot, and assuming that Okafor fulfills his potential he'll be dropping 20/8 and could be used as trade fodder sometime in the next several years not just this summer. The Lakers also have a pretty entrenched guard cohort with Clarkson, Kobe, and Nick Young. Unless you can move Young there's a serious minutes/development backlog. I mean, the Lakers are in a position of strength, but not probably not relative to the Sixers and especially not using Russell as the object of desire. edit: The most interesting thing will be if the Wolves have the balls to draft Okafor at #1. Redgrendel2001 fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 04:26
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Last week I was pretty confident OKC was drafting Payne but now that dude's Dion Waitersing up the board. Back to the Hunter-Dekkar-Oubre-Portis-Looney-Andrson roulette. I guess I want...Oubre? Seems like he has the right size and hypothetical NBA skillset for OKC. Probably needs a year to get some NBA range on his shot/learn how to dribble in the d-league though.
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Jun 8, 2015 04:44
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is there a weed guy this year?
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Jun 8, 2015 05:08
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Denver is trying to spin Lawson or (and) Faried into a pick(s). I think the Thunder might be the team that would benefit from at least Lawson more than a rookie.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:12
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Metapod posted:is there a weed guy this year? It was Upshaw supposedly.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:13
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Stevie Lee posted:the Sixers almost had Jrue Holiday and Dionte Christmas a few years ago but they cut him before the season, then the Pelicans did the same thing wow I completely forgot the third leg of the matching silly name tripod knocked loose by that dumb trade ugh now I'm angry at night
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Jun 8, 2015 05:22
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I was looking back at some Anthony Davis scouting reports and people really didn't focus much on his offensive ability which seems pretty crazy. Did they not expect he'd be able to shoot? What happened there?
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Jun 8, 2015 05:28
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EvanTH posted:I was looking back at some Anthony Davis scouting reports and people really didn't focus much on his offensive ability which seems pretty crazy. Did they not expect he'd be able to shoot? What happened there? He displayed a lot better body control and touch around the rim than people expected once he got in the league. Also, he rarely took a jump shot at Kentucky. And he still wasn't good at them his first two seasons in the NBA. He also didn't display much of a face up or low post game. He basically appeared to be a super lengthy and athletic with soft hands garbage man and pick and roll finisher. How much he had developed his offensive game since college is incredible.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:04
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Mario making the most out of his lovely minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grpIkI_Yxcw
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Jun 8, 2015 06:27
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Redgrendel2001 posted:That's also the reason why they probably would laugh at the Lakers and be fine with players like Hezonja and more picks. And why wouldn't the Sixers take Okafor and play a big three @25-30 minutes a game; it's not ideal, but it's not a ridiculous option especially considering that management has job security, it's insurance for Embiid's foot, and assuming that Okafor fulfills his potential he'll be dropping 20/8 and could be used as trade fodder sometime in the next several years not just this summer. The Lakers also have a pretty entrenched guard cohort with Clarkson, Kobe, and Nick Young. Unless you can move Young there's a serious minutes/development backlog. Because why deal with all that if you like Russell that much. Trust your own rankings and grab the guy you like most. This isn't the NFL where sheer quantity can do the job in the draft. The Sixers already have a bunch of picks, one of the whole points of collecting assets is to monetize their value in a trade. I doubt any of this happens though, so it's just dumb idle chatter on my part And I'm sure Nick Young will find himself on the street the second the Lakers find some other guard they like more to build around WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 06:40
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WhyteRyce posted:Because why deal with all that if you like Russell that much. Trust your own rankings and grab the guy you like most. This isn't the NFL where sheer quantity can do the job in the draft. The Sixers already have a bunch of picks, one of the whole points of collecting assets is to monetize their value in a trade. Yeah but you're assuming that they like Russell [b]that[\b] much. He's the best choice for them, but he's not so great that you sacrifice significant assets if you can go with Okafor/Mudiay and all the associated benefits whether or not you trade them. There no way they give up anything serious to move up a spot unless they unload Embiid/Noel in a big, complex deal. If they were a few spots lower, it would be an issue but having Okafor of Mudiay there ameliorates any potential loss. The need for great outside shooting isn't that dire given the developmental stage of the team; Hollis Thompson is a sharpshooter with size and RoCo is a poor man's Korver. Jerami Grant can actually hit a three despite the numbers. I still think that they're going after Simmons next year. He fits into every contingency and play style as a superlative, top 10 player.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:56
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aBagorn posted:Cool posts, goons. You aren't alone. It makes me teary thinking that Embiid's injuries might not ever let us see what could be. I've never watched a more The Natural in modern basketball. Okay Anthony Davis but that's pretty good company.
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Jun 8, 2015 07:01
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WhyteRyce posted:Because why deal with all that if you like Russell that much. Trust your own rankings and grab the guy you like most. This isn't the NFL where sheer quantity can do the job in the draft. The Sixers already have a bunch of picks, one of the whole points of collecting assets is to monetize their value in a trade. I doubt any of this happens though, so it's just dumb idle chatter on my part I don't think Young has any special value to them or anything, but it's a team that's about to go into the season starting Robert Sacre at center for the second year in a row. I could see the Lakers maybe determining that Muiday or Russel is a superstar and drafting him, but if I'm a rival GM I see that giant hole at center I'd be skeptical . E: I would normally never link to LakersNation, truly the source of most bad Lakers stuff in 2015, but their on-site reporting has become pretty decent even if they still write garbage clickbait bullshit articles but anyway I link this because it's interesting to hear what past players think of prospects: http://www.lakersnation.com/video-nba-legends-chime-in-on-lakers-no-2-draft-pick/2015/06/06/ It's Ced Ceballos, Robert Horry & Russel Wilkes saying the Lakers should draft a big basically. Rick fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 08:29
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No rookie is coming in and immediately shoring up a defense. At best a guy will be a mediocre defender by the end of his rookie season after getting destroyed by everyone for the first half of the season. I like Towns but he isn't going to come in and immediately fix somebody's defense. There's a steep learning curve and the rules are geared towards offense. This is not to say he won't rack up some gaudy blocks/steals for the Lakers
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Jun 8, 2015 15:54
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Redgrendel2001 posted:Claiming that Okafor is better than Embiid offensively is realllllllly debatable though. The injuries stopped him from having the college resume and tourney exposure that Okafor did, but he showed the same skill set. Arguing that Okafor is better than Embiid on offense isn't ridiculous, but arguing that he demonstrably better than him is a bit much. Embiid was exciting because he had scattered moments here and there where he'd look like Okafor does basically all the time. It's seriously not close. Okafor avearged 17 a game to Embiid's 11 and shot a higher percentage despite getting way more touches. Okafor's the most polished offensive post player in like a decade or more, the issues with him are everything else. EvanTH posted:I was looking back at some Anthony Davis scouting reports and people really didn't focus much on his offensive ability which seems pretty crazy. Did they not expect he'd be able to shoot? What happened there? All his points in college were lobs or putbacks, he averaged less than a jumper a game. He totally reworked his shot in the pros and didn't get to show off the faceup game he has now in college.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:40
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