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Ola posted:There are millions and millions of people who think the same as you, which is a great for the future of EVs. The more money is put into R&D of cars and infrastructure, the bigger the market gets. In the mean time, test drive whatever is on the market now so you can keep your finger on the pulse of the development, like eeenmachine says they all have that addictive zap off the line although nothing touches the Tesla of course.  There's always a bigger fishhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPz86Y0oRpw&t=170s I love that "blurt/drone" noise. On another topic, Is a stick shift EV possible? Is it likely to exist? I assume if there was no point installing gearing they wouldnt keep breaking 2 speeds in various EV prototypes. I test drove a Soul EV and not rowing my own gears really bothers me deeply. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jun 7, 2015 |
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Jun 7, 2015 13:46
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MattD1zzl3 posted:
The original Tesla Roadster design had a two speed transmission but every transmission they tried was chewed to pieces by the massive torque in short order.
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Jun 7, 2015 14:23
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silence_kit posted:If the governments of the world seriously commit to wind and solar energy generation, something like this could be used to use/store the excess electricity the intermittent sources generate. That's a big "if". Kind of like how if consumers would either stop requiring peak levels of load, or accept less than perfect system reliability, intermittent sources would already be more useful. Everybody puts the blame on utilities or the government, but it is consumer demand and their wasteful peak use of electricity that is the problem.
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Jun 7, 2015 14:41
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MattD1zzl3 posted:On another topic, Is a stick shift EV possible? Is it likely to exist? I assume if there was no point installing gearing they wouldnt keep breaking 2 speeds in various EV prototypes. I test drove a Soul EV and not rowing my own gears really bothers me deeply. Some DC motors have limited revs that make gearing necessary. There's a youtube playlist somewhere that documents an EV conversion of a Miata, they kept the original transmission.
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Jun 7, 2015 15:10
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eeenmachine posted:This was written recently and thought it would stimulate some discussion... Wow, that is an amazing article! Very long but also very much worth the read. I had a sense of but had never really articulated or had seen articulated the importance of EVs for weaning us off carbon and subsequently the importance Tesla (and Musk in particular) in driving the development of EVs (tl;dr: the car companies were happy selling ICE vehicles and wouldn't even consider developing and selling EVs if someone wasn't forcing them to where that "someone" is a double-whammy of the state of California and (more importantly) consumer demand generated by the obvious superiority of Tesla's BEV powertrain over virtually any ICE powertrain). Also don't miss this referenced article which absolutely destroys the environmental arguments in favor of Fuel Cell EVs. Mr.Radar fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jun 7, 2015 |
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Jun 7, 2015 15:14
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Argh, I hate replying to myself. Tesla just had their annual shareholder meeting. A few bits of information:
Mr.Radar fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jun 10, 2015 |
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Jun 10, 2015 03:19
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Mr.Radar posted:[*]Model 3 base model will have single motor standard with dual motor option
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Jun 10, 2015 03:35
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I just got an S so I guess I should have range envy or something, but all I can think about is how much more charging infrastructure there'll be if a solid $45K EV is around.
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Jun 10, 2015 05:33
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Mr.Radar posted:Wow, that is an amazing article! Very long but also very much worth the read. I had a sense of but had never really articulated or had seen articulated the importance of EVs for weaning us off carbon and subsequently the importance Tesla (and Musk in particular) in driving the development of EVs (tl;dr: the car companies were happy selling ICE vehicles and wouldn't even consider developing and selling EVs if someone wasn't forcing them to where that "someone" is a double-whammy of the state of California and (more importantly) consumer demand generated by the obvious superiority of Tesla's BEV powertrain over virtually any ICE powertrain). Also don't miss this referenced article which absolutely destroys the environmental arguments in favor of Fuel Cell EVs. I don't have time to read and get into the articles, but does the "completely destroys Fuel Cell EVs" article actually take into consideration that the technology is in it's infancy and that just because most hydrogen is extracted using fossil fuel now, it doesn't have to be in the future? Same with "bad infrastructure", which is something that EV's still suffer very much from? Usually people whining on hydrogen compare them like they are at the same point in development. Usually they have the same arguments against hydrogen that exist (albeit at a different level) for EVs.
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Jun 10, 2015 09:40
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The arguments are the same because infrastructure is important to both. Heck, buying a diesel car gives some people pause. The differences between FC and EV infra gaps are pretty meaningful IMO. The world is already blanketed with means for producing and distributing electricity, so EVs really face a last-mile problem of adding grid access points. Hydrogen has first mile (production), last mile (delivery), and middle miles (transport) problems. I think it's entirely possible that we'll never see good FC infrastructure, because the demand won't be sufficient to build up the whole industry, while electrical generation and battery tech and so forth have lots of motivation outside of EVs.
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Jun 10, 2015 13:48
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Dear Tesla: Re: Model III HURRY THE gently caress UP I WANT TO BE DRIVING AN ELECTRIC CAR WHEN I WATCH ELON GET ON THE ROCKET TO MARS Respectfully, MrYenko
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Jun 10, 2015 14:10
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I really want the Model 3 to be ready when I turn in my Leaf next May, but I know there's going to be quite the gap where I'm driving my old Mazda beater. Gives me some time to save up some cash at least. The 3 comes with free Supercharging, right? I seem to recall that being confirmed. There's a Tesla Supercharger station just under a mile from my house so that's a tad important.
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Jun 10, 2015 14:44
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Subjunctive posted:The arguments are the same because infrastructure is important to both. Heck, buying a diesel car gives some people pause. Plus, transporting and storing liquid hydrogen is a Hard problem. H2 is a really tiny molecule and most materials we use for storing stuff will slow-leak it. When the space shuttle was on the pad it had to be continually topped up with H2 until just before it launched, so it's not like smart people with resources haven't been looking into solutions for years.
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Jun 10, 2015 15:15
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Mortanis posted:I really want the Model 3 to be ready when I turn in my Leaf next May, but I know there's going to be quite the gap where I'm driving my old Mazda beater. Gives me some time to save up some cash at least. They've started cracking down on people "abusing" supercharger stations by using them to charge all the time, so they still expect you to charge at home most of the time. Also LOL the Model X is delayed again and the autopilot package I prepaid for is still missing most of its features including stuff other cars have like auto park. I wouldn't count on the Model 3 anytime soon.
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Jun 10, 2015 17:22
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Tesla just opened a supercharger in Mountain View, which is 5% Model S by volume, so they'll definitely have to crack down on people using it for regular refilling.
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Jun 10, 2015 22:05
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pun pundit posted:Plus, transporting and storing liquid hydrogen is a Hard problem. H2 is a really tiny molecule and most materials we use for storing stuff will slow-leak it. When the space shuttle was on the pad it had to be continually topped up with H2 until just before it launched, so it's not like smart people with resources haven't been looking into solutions for years. I think the space shuttle tanks were intentionally gapped to prevent failures due to thermal expansion/compression. But anyways, the I really hope I either have a house or some place to charge then the model 3 comes out, because - I really want this mythical beast. It's going to be absolutely everywhere if they pull off a sub 40k price.
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Jun 10, 2015 22:06
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Voltage posted:It's going to be absolutely everywhere if they pull off a sub 40k price. I personally wouldn't bet my savings on it, though some people definitely have given TSLA's stock price, because you'll still have to sell a lot of people who won't go for electric yet because it's too new and different. Early adopters will certainly get this company off of the ground, and have already, but my guess is it will stay in early-adopter phase and Tesla won't be able to stabilize for a long time. I bet you'll still have to hunt for one on the road. I understand some people in California will run across several Teslas on the road in a day, but think about how many you see from the other makes.
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Jun 11, 2015 00:03
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Depends on the area. I see Teslas weekly in my area, no hyperbole. One day I saw four in an eight block radius, and I'm nowhere near Seattle or a metro area. That's ignoring the fact that I live a mile from the Supercharger - this is where I work, 30 minutes away. Once a more affordable 3 series is available, I'm pretty certain a lot of people that are on the fence about EV cars will pull the trigger. I'm interested in what happens to the market. Overnight it almost instantly invalidates most every other manufacturer. Why buy a Leaf at that point... direct to consumer blocking legislation aside?
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Jun 11, 2015 00:26
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Michael Scott posted:I personally wouldn't bet my savings on it, though some people definitely have given TSLA's stock price, because you'll still have to sell a lot of people who won't go for electric yet because it's too new and different.
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Jun 11, 2015 00:44
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ilkhan posted:wealthier area of CA and have a I'm in the throbbing core of silicon valley, and I was 3-abreast with 2 other Model S's stopped on 101 the other day. I have seen 4 in a single day while dropping my daughter off at school. It's a plague.
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Jun 11, 2015 00:49
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I commute in to manhattan every day and I see at least 4 Model S's each way every day, and most of the ones I see the badge on are P85D's. The Model ED (lol) will be one of the most popular cars in NYC, I would bet on it.
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Jun 11, 2015 01:12
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Subjunctive posted:Tesla just opened a supercharger in Mountain View, which is 5% Model S by volume, so they'll definitely have to crack down on people using it for regular refilling.
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Jun 11, 2015 05:06
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roomforthetuna posted:Probably not really that big of a deal because it's likely that a significant portion of the Tesla drivers in Mountain View work at a company that has EV charger parking. All those people will just be charging at work rather than at a supercharger station. I'd be surprised if those at-work chargers weren't pretty contended (FB's are), but yeah, that'll help.
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Jun 11, 2015 05:08
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Subjunctive posted:I'd be surprised if those at-work chargers weren't pretty contended (FB's are), but yeah, that'll help.
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Jun 11, 2015 05:15
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roomforthetuna posted:Some sections of Google have surplus EV parking at the moment (to the point that there's no parking nearby for regular cars but several charging spots open). I'm sure that ratio must be gradually decreasing though. It's cool that so far they're staying ahead of the curve. That's pretty impressive. FB has the valet rotate cars through the charging stations, which works OK, but we're going to need more capacity.
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Jun 11, 2015 05:19
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Hell, I frequently see a model S or two in PITTSBURGH of all places.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:57
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Miami has AWFUL EV infrastructure, and Model Ses are all over the place. The whole point of Tesla's success is that the car has enough range that you don't have to carefully shepherd it from charge point to charge point for 90% of normal driving. EV infrastructure is great, but a 200mi+ range makes it mostly irrelevant for most use cases.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:56
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Teslas are everywhere in Walnut Creek and elsewhere in Contra Costa. Hell, it's rare that a day goes by without seeing one.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:13
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MrYenko posted:EV infrastructure is great, but a 200mi+ range makes it mostly irrelevant for most use cases. I would agree with that. I can really only think of a handful of times a year that I would need >200 miles worth of range in one day. My parents only live 25 miles away, my sister only lives 60. I could see maybe if I visited my sister and then decided to go somewhere else that day without charging I could come close. Otherwise, it's just stuff like driving down to DC from Pittsburgh to visit fiends. Even that is somewhat doable if some planning was done and I wasn't trying to make good time as there's a Supercharging station in Somerset and in Hagerstown. The big thing that would give me range anxiety in those instances are road closures. I HAVE been detoured off the turnpike before due to a wreck and if I had to detour around the Supercharger in Somerset, I would basically have to abort the trip.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:51
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bull3964 posted:I would agree with that. My biggest question about range is how much affect rush-hour stop and go traffic in 110+ degree temperatures would affect it. My commute is 52 miles one way in those conditions, and sometimes I actually like to not go directly home after work, and I always go out for lunch. Would be awesome to get an EV, but I'd really want to know what that sort of driving does to the range before I could risk the investment in one.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:08
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In my experience, my Volt actually gets BETTER mileage/range in stop and go traffic than at a steady-state 70mph cruise.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:47
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MrYenko posted:In my experience, my Volt actually gets BETTER mileage/range in stop and go traffic than at a steady-state 70mph cruise. Interesting, I would think sitting relatively still with the A/C blasting and radio on would decrease the range significantly.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:50
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The Locator posted:Interesting, I would think sitting relatively still with the A/C blasting and radio on would decrease the range significantly. I think (not positive) the energy required to in the AC and radio are minuscule compared to moving 1,000-2,000 pounds of metal.
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Jun 11, 2015 23:53
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eeenmachine posted:I think (not positive) the energy required to in the AC and radio are minuscule compared to moving 1,000-2,000 pounds of metal. Radio, sure, but it's a bit extra. Typical car A/C is about a 4 horsepower draw, and in Arizona in summer that's a continuous load, so while it's small, it's still enough of a load that is seems it would be a factor when you are talking about 90 minutes of travel (each way).
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Jun 11, 2015 23:56
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Seems like an EV might have a bit of an advantage over a typical auto A/C, in that the compressor can spin at full speed (or possibly be varied) independent of the vehicle / engine speed. Either way, 4hp would be about 3kW, or about 5% of a base Model S 60 kWh battery pack for every hour of usage. So three hours of commuting with the A/C running the entire time would suck up about 15% of the range on top of the actual driving itself. I'd still bet that even in AZ the compressor wouldn't run 100% of the time on a drive like that, though. Of course, any gains there would be countered by any derating / other losses on the battery itself from being so loving hot. That's the biggest problem the Leaf has.
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Jun 12, 2015 00:09
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The Locator posted:Radio, sure, but it's a bit extra. Typical car A/C is about a 4 horsepower draw, and in Arizona in summer that's a continuous load, so while it's small, it's still enough of a load that is seems it would be a factor when you are talking about 90 minutes of travel (each way). Assuming your figure is correct we can figure out how much A/C impacts range. 4 HP = 3 kW so to run that for 1 hour is 3 kWh (makes sense, doesn't it?  ). The Model S85 battery pack is 85 kWh which this document says has an available capacity of 67.4 kWh for normal driving. With that amount of charge you could run the A/C for 22.5 hours continously. Another way to look at it is how much range you use: the EPA says the S85 uses 38 kWh/100 mi or 380 Wh/mi. That means each hour of A/C use uses 7.9 miles of range.
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Jun 12, 2015 00:17
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Thanks for the info. The S is out of my price range, but if we get more moderately priced cars with 200+ mile range, they will be on my radar and this helps me figure out the real world range issues I'd need to deal with.
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Jun 12, 2015 01:00
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My leaf does a flat 10% penalty to the mileage display if I turn on the AC. I'm not sure how accurate that is.
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Jun 12, 2015 01:17
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Voltage posted:I think the space shuttle tanks were intentionally gapped to prevent failures due to thermal expansion/compression. BMW's Hydrogen 7 would lose a full tank in less than two weeks of sitting. It's that hard to store. edit: how the hell'd the "to" disappear? Stupid Awful app... wolrah fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jun 12, 2015 |
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Jun 12, 2015 02:33
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I wouldn't worry about AC, since driving a Model S means you're already plenty 
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Jun 12, 2015 02:37
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