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DC-4s can operate off grass. B-24s as well. The first U.S. military airplane that springs into my mind as being unable to operate off grass is the B-29. Constellations and DC-6s were probably the first civilian aircraft that was designed with the expectation of a paved runway at both ends of a flight, but I'm pretty sure they can operate on turf as well, if required. Source: wild assed (educated) guessing.
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Jun 13, 2015 13:55
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Cool, thanks for the responses. I was just thinking about how airplanes spent their formative years not really needing much in the way of infrastructure. Flying Boats especially were kinda nice in that respect.
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Jun 13, 2015 14:15
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MrYenko posted:The first U.S. military airplane that springs into my mind as being unable to operate off grass is the B-29. They can, and did, operate off Marsden Matting, though, which IIRC the 2 B29 bases on Tinian used.
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Jun 13, 2015 14:25
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In anticipation of another airship derail, I've always been amazed at the 1929 circumnavigation of the globe by the Graf Zeppelin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZ_127_Graf_Zeppelin Imagine taking a ~102 hour flight around the world at a time when there weren't that many airports, and certainly not the logistics chain we have today.
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Jun 13, 2015 14:31
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mlmp08 posted:NASA workers geeking out over a blackbird flyby in the 90s: And here is a 360 zoomable fullscreen look around the cockpit as well as a bunch of other classics. http://www.airspacemag.com/panoramas/lockheed-sr-71a-1-180952064/ Thanks thread for putting me onto Air & Space Magazine.
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Jun 13, 2015 15:20
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Platystemon posted:For overseas travel, seaplanes dominated pre‐WWII and fell out of favour quite quickly afterwards.
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Jun 13, 2015 17:10
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Didn't help that flying boats were loving death traps.
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Jun 13, 2015 17:46
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Itzena posted:The explanation I've heard is that the later heavy bombers of WW2 needed long paved runways and then when the war ended there were all these airports basically lying around waiting for someone to make use of them so people started building planes to take advantage. And once that happened, flying boats became irrelevant. I've never really been able to buy this explanation. Yes, there were lots of new airfields around, but more importantly, there was a staggering number of surplus aircraft available, almost all of them land planes, most of them having performance superior to the pre-war flying boats. Operations of large flying boats were also significantly more expensive than for a comparable land plane, and required a high level of proficiency from both the flight crew and ground handlers. Additionally, passenger flying boats were not exactly thick on the ground; Boeing only built twelve 314s. The U.S. Government surplused THOUSANDS of C-47s alone, along with dozens of other types, all for a tiny fraction of what it would cost to design and build another generation of flying boats. ...And then the 707 came along...
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Jun 13, 2015 18:37
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Keeping planes seaworthy and airworthy seems like it would be more expensive than just airworthy especially if its regular parking spot is a lagoon somewhere.
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Jun 13, 2015 18:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYbM-3E11Qo 1 - that 2 - not set to SAIL ChickenOfTomorrow fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 13, 2015 |
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Jun 13, 2015 19:21
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MrYenko posted:DC-4s can operate off grass. B-24s as well. I once hired a DC-6 for a cargo flight to a beach. They're perfectly content with a diet of nothing but dirt. DC-7s as well if you can find one being used. Poking around, it sounds like all the Douglas Commercial series through the -9, including possibly the 717, are okay with gravel. Note also that the 737-200 could have a gravel kit. Many of the larger Alaskan runways were not paved until the early 2000s. When Alaska Airlines announced the retirement of their -200 combis it finally forced several to upgrade. The rest had to downgrade to turboprops for pax and DC-6s/cargo dedicated -200s to make up the cargo difference. Also Lynden L-100s when the CIA doesn't have them all tied up.
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Jun 13, 2015 21:02
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Yeah DC-6s most definitely are capable of handling gravel. Also I know DC-9s are capable (pretty sure back on page 717 we had some pictures of DC-9s/MD-80s/717s with gravel kits), with the rear mounted engines its basically just a matter of putting some deflectors on the gear. Pretty sure 727s were capable of the same modification for the same reasons. Not sure about DC-8s though, even before the upgraded engines they still sat pretty low to the ground. Speaking of Alaskan DC-6's and gravel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kw8Yomh5fU It was always a highlight when the Everts DC-6s would come to Elmo to pick up some cargo for one of the outlying radar stations or King Salmon or wherever.
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Jun 13, 2015 22:46
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See the nose art on that DC-6? It was (one of) Howard Hughes' personal aircraft. I believe he was flying somewhere, stopped for the night, left via a different means and the plane was forgotten about in a hangar (with his company paying parking fees) for something like 40 years before Everts bought it. Edit: When Everts bought it in 2010 it had 17 air hours. http://www.newsminer.com/features/s...a.html?mode=jqm Also, Nixon Fork is one hell of an airstrip. I believe two different Carvairs have crashed on landing there, and IIRC another one en route. Several other DC aircraft have also met their demise flying the Nixon Fork supply run. Advent Horizon fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jun 13, 2015 |
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Jun 13, 2015 22:55
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I'd be interested to see whether hard surface runways or the rest of the infrastructure came first. I'd imagine that once you're building a tower and a terminal and navaids and the sort of operation that can handle jet liners, paving becomes a less significant part of the budget.
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Jun 13, 2015 23:29
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'd be interested to see whether hard surface runways or the rest of the infrastructure came first. I'd imagine that once you're building a tower and a terminal and navaids and the sort of operation that can handle jet liners, paving becomes a less significant part of the budget. I don't have any hard documented factual evidence for this off-hand, but I'd be willing to bet that it was still hard surface runways first. Keep in mind that in a fair portion of the world big terminals and jetways and the whole passenger handling infrastructure we associate with modern air travel today lagged a ways behind the introduction of jets. Plenty of pictures of 707s and DC-8s with people deplaning via airstairs and walking over to a terminal, not much different from how they would've done it in a DC-6 or Stratocruiser or a Connie. Same principle would follow I'd think regarding navaids, since the really expensive airfield specific ones lagged the introduction of jets by a bit I'm pretty sure.
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Jun 14, 2015 00:03
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My hometown of Cork's airport didn't get jetways until the early 00s and they're still not used due to a pissing match between Dublin, Shannon and them over who gets to service what traffic.
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Jun 14, 2015 00:50
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Hadlock fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 01:04
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No, Cork has plenty of routes, it just can't use the jetways that it built because then it might be able to serve widebodies at some point and Shannon would be doomed to total irrelevance instead of merely near irrelevance.
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Jun 14, 2015 01:25
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Forums Terrorist posted:No, Cork has plenty of routes, it just can't use the jetways that it built because then it might be able to serve widebodies at some point and Shannon would be doomed to total irrelevance instead of merely near irrelevance. Shannon can always play the trump card and say "What do you want, ya poo poo-heelin' richlanders? You want us to be like Gander, Newfoundland? A big empty airport and a literal economic mistake named after us?!? Why don't you tell us to go dig a fuckin' potato?!" :slams down glass of Guinness: :storms out: I've never been to Ireland
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Jun 14, 2015 03:43
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Nebakenezzer posted:Shannon can always play the trump card and say "What do you want, ya poo poo-heelin' richlanders? You want us to be like Gander, Newfoundland? A big empty airport and a literal economic mistake named after us?!? Why don't you tell us to go dig a fuckin' potato?!" Just need to leave the EU or get rid of that pesky open skies policy.
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Jun 14, 2015 04:56
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We stopped in Shannon on the way home from a deployment, and I can honestly say that was the best layover I've ever had. We basically had our own waiting area with a bar and a gift shop, and the squadron commander's instructions were "You probably shouldn't have more than two but we are not going to count. Don't make me regret this." Edit: For civilians, getting treated like an adult in that situation is tantamount to winning the loving lottery. Having nobody gently caress it up for the rest is like not tearing up the ticket and throwing it away.
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Jun 14, 2015 04:58
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Godholio posted:We stopped in Shannon on the way home from a deployment, and I can honestly say that was the best layover I've ever had. We basically had our own waiting area with a bar and a gift shop, and the squadron commander's instructions were "You probably shouldn't have more than two but we are not going to count. Don't make me regret this." lol My return from KAF involved a rotator through loving Incirlik. No booze and the plane (a World MD-11, go figure) broke stranding us there for an extra 3 hours (it was actually less "a break" and more "a panel came loose up on the vertical stab but it's so high that we're going to have to search heaven and earth to find a stand with enough vertical to reach it, also the winds are technically out of limits so lets have a bunch of CGOs and Chiefs stand around while we're putting it up to the plane, that should prevent any mishaps"). It was actually great though, all things considered, because on the way out there I was stuck with 20-25 folks who were going out there with me, which meant I was the troop commander, which meant I had responsibilities (like making sure no one got drunk and missed the flight out of Leipzig). On the way back thanks to our flight chief completely loving up our outbound flight stuff it was just me and my MSgt Pro Super because everyone else left days ahead of us. So it was just me and a MSgt chilling in Incirlik, searching desperately for some form of alcohol during our 3 hour layover and failing. Still better than the poor bastards that have to return through the Deid now though instead of somewhere in Europe, because gently caress that poo poo. At least the Army gets Romania.
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Jun 14, 2015 05:22
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I'm hitting up the Museum of Naval Aviation on Monday. I'm pretty pumped as I've not been since I was 10. If anyone wants pictures of anything specific let me know.
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Jun 14, 2015 05:47
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Pete Conrad grandson has posted an imgur album of a bunch of stuff, pretty neat: http://imgur.com/gallery/G3oj0 example:  
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Jun 14, 2015 06:21
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Someone mentioned a Coney Island airshow being cancelled earlier in the thread. Any recommendations for airshows to see this year for someone living in NYC?
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Jun 14, 2015 06:59
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eggyolk posted:Someone mentioned a Coney Island airshow being cancelled earlier in the thread. Any recommendations for airshows to see this year for someone living in NYC? Are you able/willing to travel 100 miles?
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Jun 14, 2015 07:06
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Previa_fun posted:I'm hitting up the Museum of Naval Aviation on Monday. I'm pretty pumped as I've not been since I was 10. If anyone wants pictures of anything specific let me know. Make sure you check out BuNo 2106, it's easily the most historic airframe in Naval Aviation history and arguably one of the most historic airframes in the world. Also just a reminder that Pete Conrad was basically the comedic rear end in a top hat of the first couple of NASA astronaut classes. He was invited to interview for the first class, but... quote:Conrad, like his fellow candidates, underwent several days of what they considered to be invasive, demeaning, and unnecessary medical and psychological testing at the Lovelace Respiratory Research Institute in New Mexico. Unlike his fellow candidates, Conrad rebelled against the regimen. During a Rorschach inkblot test, he told the psychiatrist that one blot card revealed a sexual encounter complete with lurid detail. When shown a blank card, he turned it around, pushed it back and replied "It's upside down". Also here's his first words after stepping from the ladder onto the LM's landing pad: quote:Whoopee! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but that's a long one for me and then from the landing pad onto the Moon itself: quote:"Oooh, is that soft and queasy." Dude owned. Incidentally the Apollo capsule that Conrad and company flew up to Skylab on the first manned Skylab mission is on display at Pensacola.
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Jun 14, 2015 08:44
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drunkill posted:example: Well I just spent a lazy sunday morning reading http://history.nasa.gov/ap12fj/pdf/a12_sa507-flightmanual.pdf
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Jun 14, 2015 10:22
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Just posting to confirm that Incirlik sucked and Shannon owned as far as stops on the way to/from deployment. Bangor was ok. Some lucky jerks got to ride on the two C-5s that broke in Rota and somehow couldn't be fixed for like a week straight.
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Jun 14, 2015 14:55
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quote:Boeing is expected to unveil a design this month that would add 2-14 more seats by reducing the size of lavatories. The plan is to make lavatories smaller on the outside while increasing passenger space inside. Designers won't be content until we're flying in cattle cars at this rate.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:10
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Party Plane Jones posted:Designers won't be content until we're flying in cattle cars at this rate. more like designers loving hate it but airlines wouldn't pay their employers and their employers wouldn't pay them otherwise
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Jun 14, 2015 16:36
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Party Plane Jones posted:Designers won't be content until we're flying in cattle cars at this rate. More like customers won't be content until we're flying in cattle cars at this rate.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:47
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First will be Singapore's suites class, economy and will be half standing on bicycles seats with 16" seat widths so the same number of people can be carried despite each first class customer having a full double bed.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:52
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iyaayas01 posted:lol For some loving reason our contract was a 737. So our stops were Incirlik (in the middle of the night, everything closed), Shannon, and Bucharest (everything closed, SMG-armed guards/cops all over the terminal). Edit: Seconding Bangor (also Pease) ain't bad at all. Godholio fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 17:50
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mlmp08 posted:I think I've posted this like 2-3 times in the Airpower/Cold War thread, but I'm pretty sure I have yet to spam this video in this thread: Necro, but this is a brilliant song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRNyCHLell8
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Jun 14, 2015 17:57
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eggyolk posted:Someone mentioned a Coney Island airshow being cancelled earlier in the thread. Any recommendations for airshows to see this year for someone living in NYC? Not an airshow so much as a fly-in, but Teterboro is having it's annual Wings and Wheels event next weekend. Only $7 to get in, hundreds of cars, a B-17 giving rides along the Hudson, the last flying SB2C (also giving rides, but it's like $1,000), and a bunch of other display aircraft. And I'm totally not pushing this because I'm Assistant Ramp Ops or anything it's actually really fun 
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Jun 14, 2015 18:05
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYbM-3E11Qo If it's not set to SAIL, its not an actual plane video in TYOOL 2015.  
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Jun 14, 2015 18:27
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mlmp08 posted:Just posting to confirm that Incirlik sucked and Shannon owned as far as stops on the way to/from deployment. Bangor was ok. Some lucky jerks got to ride on the two C-5s that broke in Rota and somehow couldn't be fixed for like a week straight. lol A broken FRED is a permanent fixture at Rota I'm pretty sure
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Jun 14, 2015 19:45
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C-5 maintenance availability is inversely proportional to the availability of nearby beaches and drinks with umbrellas in them.
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Jun 14, 2015 20:37
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If you're going to join the Air Force, join a unit that does organic transport, because holy loving poo poo is it a million times better than the rotator. I've only had to take the rotator once, and it sucked (in part because I got stuck behind 200 MPs who hadn't read the instructions about checking weapons through BWI) but we did have a nice layover in Germany where they opened up the lounge at 2 AM and sold us beer, brats and cigarettes.MrYenko posted:C-5 maintenance availability is inversely proportional to the availability of nearby beaches and drinks with umbrellas in them.
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Jun 14, 2015 23:00
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