Ask Us About Military History: Remove Balls To Fire Blanks

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Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Kanine posted:

what are some good examples of weapons or general events in military history that were really ahead of their time?

Probably anything Subutai did.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 02:21

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# ? May 16, 2024 09:32

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Kanine posted:

what are some good examples of weapons or general events in military history that were really ahead of their time?

Sherman's march to the sea.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 02:45

Kanine: Aug 5, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

No matter how many times I see a map of the Mongol Empire my reaction is still "holy poo poo that's huge."

# ? Jun 14, 2015 03:18

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

The mitrailleuse and the Gatling gun were pretty neat

The first revolvers were made in the 16th century

# ? Jun 14, 2015 03:25

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Kanine posted:

No matter how many times I see a map of the Mongol Empire my reaction is still "holy poo poo that's huge."

That's the power of light cavalry.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 03:25

Frostwerks: Sep 24, 2007; by Lowtax

How do you look up past edit histories on wikipedia? Cuz the one on the ancient Egyptian navy had a funny one.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 04:37

Frostwerks: Sep 24, 2007; by Lowtax

Well, hell. That's a lot of poo poo to sift through. Anyway the purpose section read something like

[quote="Wikipedia" post=" "]
The Egyptian navy had three main purposes: 1. The transportation of troops and supplies to certain areas that required them; 2. To use as a platform from which archers would fire their arrows upon the enemy that were land or sea based; 3. To die
[/quote]

and I thought that must have made life a living hell for recruiters.

e: Pretty sure it was like that for months too.

Frostwerks fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jun 14, 2015

# ? Jun 14, 2015 04:40

Empress Theonora: Feb 19, 2001; She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

Trin Tragula posted:

Mildly irritated that for once I had this all ready to go on Saturday at 10am, and then the dratted forums fell over until after I had to go out

100 Years Ago

Today we're paying short visits to Second Artois and the BEF's latest wizzo idea (it's actually not that bad, something does need to be done). However, the meat of today is with Louis Barthas, as we get to see that much as he likes to complain about everything, as a corporal he does have a very strong sense of duty and responsibility to the men of his squad. He may hate officers and their stupid orders, but he'll continue to soldier, protect his men, and get them through the madness as best he can.

Unfortunately, today his best may not be good enough...

Louis Barthas owns.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 04:57

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

Rincewind posted:

Louis Barthas owns.

Not an emptyquote.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 05:44

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

100 Years Ago

Put on your berets and striped shirts and hang some onions round your neck, c'est un jour Francais. Louis Barthas's squad is about to go out of the line, the ground underneath the St Mihiel salient is crawling with mining and counter-mining and camouflets and saps, and d'Amade's replacement General Gouraud hasn't seen nearly enough French Empire men die on Gallipoli yet, so is planning another attack against the strongest Ottoman strongholds. As you do. Oh, and Kenneth Best gets his just desserts from the Lord, to teach him not to go acquiring buckshees quite so freely in future.

Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Jun 14, 2015

# ? Jun 14, 2015 10:51

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Kanine posted:

what are some good examples of weapons or general events in military history that were really ahead of their time?

Greek fire. Little Boy and Fat Man.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 10:56

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

The rifle.

It took several hundred years before ammunition and firing mechanisms caught up to the point where it was a militarily viable weapon.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 11:02

ArchangeI: Jul 15, 2010

Rincewind posted:

Louis Barthas owns.

I motion that Lois Barthas is canonically recognized as the patron saint of grognards everywhere, as he is the perfect example of a grumbling soldier.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 12:44

Klaus88: Jan 23, 2011; Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment

Alchenar posted:

The rifle.

It took several hundred years before ammunition and firing mechanisms caught up to the point where it was a militarily viable weapon.

The one time Britain was actually ahead of the time with military technology. :argh:

# ? Jun 14, 2015 13:22

Rocko Bonaparte: Mar 12, 2002; Every day is Friday!

The Lone Badger posted:

Presumably your maximum muzzle velocity is limited to the propagation speed of the propellant. Is this high enough to achieve orbit?

Yes, but you can litigate with the laws of physics by compressing the propellant while creating a vacuum in front of whatever you are launching. You are still liable to turn any living creatures inside into a red smear from the forces.

I would say that if you love to look at futarist stuff that you just casually search on the particular topic. Just moping around, I saw all kinds of crazy crap I never would have understood as a kid. Just about every facet of it has been considered, to the point you could not even consider it a cannon anymore. Like, you can shape the projectile a certain way and get some kind of scramjet out of it.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 13:44

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

Kanine posted:

what are some good examples of weapons or general events in military history that were really ahead of their time?

Roman military boots.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 13:50

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

I'm partial to the VT proximity fuse.

As a feat of engineering, it's kinda nuts. Make a miniature radar set small enough to fit in a 90mm artillery shell, capable of withstanding 20000 Gs of acceleration and 30000 rpm rotation. Make 20 million of them at a budget of $18, per unit.

Enough to make you blanch right? OH ALSO it's 1942, so your electronics will have to be based on thermionic valves. Good luck!

# ? Jun 14, 2015 14:34

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Fangz posted:

I'm partial to the VT proximity fuse.

As a feat of engineering, it's kinda nuts. Make a miniature radar set small enough to fit in a 90mm artillery shell, capable of withstanding 20000 Gs of acceleration and 30000 rpm rotation. Make 20 million of them at a budget of $18, per unit.

Enough to make you blanch right? OH ALSO it's 1942, so your electronics will have to be based on thermionic valves. Good luck!

Yeah back then they did some crazy poo poo with little more than nicotine and slide rules.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 14:45

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Kanine posted:

what are some good examples of weapons or general events in military history that were really ahead of their time?

Specific examples, I can think of jet aircraft such as the Me-262, or the Ho-229.

The V rockets were ahead of their time as well.

The effective use of radar on aircraft was a pretty big game-changer.

Night-vision equipment for combat, such as the Stg44 using "Vampir" - Zielgerat 1229 - or the M1 Carbine T3 variant.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 15:51

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Klaus88 posted:

The one time Britain was actually ahead of the time with military technology.

Not the only time!

# ? Jun 14, 2015 16:19

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Would the tank Da Vinci drew up count? Granted it was never built and would have been unable to do anything with its drive system.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 16:30

T___A: Jan 18, 2014; Nothing would go right until we had a dictator, and the sooner the better.

Kanine posted:

what are some good examples of weapons or general events in military history that were really ahead of their time?

The fact that were even able to mass produce the M1 Garand let alone make it standard issue was really impressive. Even more given that Army Ordinance was operating on a shoestring budget and had to whore themselves out to people like the Navy for money.

E: The AR-15 was a really ahead of it's time and in some ways it has yet to be matched the by Russians.

T___A fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 14, 2015

# ? Jun 14, 2015 16:46

Slaan: Mar 16, 2009; ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH

T___A posted:

and had to whore themselves out to people like the Navy for money.

Well, at least the Navy is wet and full of seamen. Better them than the Air Force, always high and dry.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 17:14

T___A: Jan 18, 2014; Nothing would go right until we had a dictator, and the sooner the better.

Slaan posted:

Well, at least the Navy is wet and full of seamen. Better them than the Air Force, always high and dry.

Well they probably would've gone to the Air Force too were it not for the fact that the Air Force was part of the Army at time.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 17:26

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

T___A posted:

E: The AR-15 was a really ahead of it's time and in some ways it has yet to be matched the by Russians.

Uh, for those of us who clearly don't know why... why do you say that?

# ? Jun 14, 2015 17:38

T___A: Jan 18, 2014; Nothing would go right until we had a dictator, and the sooner the better.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Uh, for those of us who clearly don't know why... why do you say that?

With combat loads measured in grams the extra weight savings the AR-15 has over an AK is really useful. Though the Russians seemed to have bridged gap with the AK-12.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 17:58

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Uh, for those of us who clearly don't know why... why do you say that?

The caliber change was a HUGE deal. We're talking 2-3x as much ammunition due to weight issues when compared to 7.62NATO. gently caress, even the Russians got a significant weight saving when they switched from 7.62x39 to 5.54x39 for the AK74. Less weight = more ammo and soldiers who can march further, faster. The same can be said of the rifle itself. It's really, really goddamned light when compared to anything else the US used before then and still pretty svelte when stacked up against an AK.

It is also obscenely easy to modify and upgrade due to its modular construction. You can strip one down to its component parts (I'm talking WAAAAY down - removing the barrel from the reciever) in an hour with tools that can be found in a reasonably well stocked suburban garage. Most of the really technical poo poo is taken care of at the factory - there aren't that many guns out there that you can swap out barrels without needing to re-check the headspace. This lead directly to its being able to evolve from the triangles-and-carry-handles Vietnam-era M16 to the M16A4s and M4s you see in the military today. That was probably the biggest single advantage of the gun, as what was an imperfect design in the early 60s was able to be developed into a hugely successful combat rifle today.

Part of that upgrade process also gave it the ability to mount optics far, far easier than most other military rifles made before 2000. Due to its design the AK is a stone cold bitch to mount optics on effectively. It can be done, but there are some major drawbacks to any of its solutions compared to what the AR family has to offer.

The way that the barrel connects to the receiver also makes it obscenely accurate compared to comperable weapons. The barrel is very easy to free float (basically making the rifle have no points of contact with the forestock to avoid pressure points throwing off accuracy). I can't really think of any other modern pistol gripped rifle that is as easy to do that with. It's just an incredibly versatile platform.

It's not a perfect design, but no gun is. The magazines are flimsy compared to most other guns, but ones made since GW1 are reliable and they're so cheap that they're essentially disposable. The way that the bolt and buffer system works prevents it from using folding stocks so there's a limit on how compact one can get, but most situations don't call for a PDW that can fit in a briefcase. There are some pieces in the bolt that need more cleaning than a simpler design like the AK - the extractor in particular likes to collect soot in its channel and that can cause extraction issues. The bullets that it was designed for perform best out of a barrel long enough to crank their velocity up nice and high, which means that the really short CQB versions need to use a specialty, heavier bullet.

And, just to get ahead of the inevitable questions - manyof the early problems in Vietnam were due to the ammo, not the gun. I forget the details right now, but the short version is that the military opted for a cheaper gunpowder than what the rifle was designed for and that cause all sorts of crazy fouling problems. They also cheaped out on chroming the barrels which is kind of unfortunate when you are in a tropical swamp.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 18:11

T___A: Jan 18, 2014; Nothing would go right until we had a dictator, and the sooner the better.

Cyrano4747 posted:

snip

And, just to get ahead of the inevitable questions - manyof the early problems in Vietnam were due to the ammo, not the gun. I forget the details right now, but the short version is that the military opted for a cheaper gunpowder than what the rifle was designed for and that cause all sorts of crazy fouling problems. They also cheaped out on chroming the barrels which is kind of unfortunate when you are in a tropical swamp.

There was too much calcium in the powder.

This reminds me of something else, there is a significant chance that the AR-15 was in Vietnam before the M14 was.

# ? Jun 14, 2015 18:15